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Stay Safe, Bros. Important Info

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Immortal Juicer

Well-known member
Let me start off by saying, I have the utmost respect for police officers and all law enforcement officials. I have friends that are police officers and they risk their lives daily for a low salary and dangerous work. They are dedicating their career to make the country a safer place to live, only to be scrutinized by the very public the have sworn to protect.

It is a shame that an illogical law has turned citizens against each other and we cannot all be on the same side. Unfortunately, thats the way it is, and the following info is for educational purposes only.


The first time I bought gear, I drove 20min to a Food Lion parking lot and bouht 10 sustanon's for $200. I drove home 10 miles an hour under the speed limit, scanned the parking lot for unmarked cars, hid the gear in a cd box set case, the box case in a t-shirt, and the t-shirt in a backpack, made it to my apartment, locked the door behind me and started looking through the blinds for the swat team waiting outside.

It is humerous now, but it wasnt then because 10 sustanons would be the biggest drug bust in history - TO ME! I decided to get educated and now I'm a CJ minor and let me tell you, in this game, the best way to stay safe is to get educated.

I want to hear from some bros who have either been busted, or know someone who has so everyone can learn from their mistakes. Everyone I know has either incriminated themselves upon arrest, consented to a search while knowingly posessing illegal goods, or been involved with narcotics (coke, X, weed) in addition to juice. Here are a few pointers I've picked up over the past year.

Rule 1: Keep your mouth shut and only deal with close trusted friends. Staying quiet is one of the hardest things to do. You cant catch a fish if it doesnt open its mouth. The vast majority of people incriminate themselves by talking to police. Police officers are trained to elicit incriminating statements, and when you are there shaking the piss off your leg after the cops break down your front door, the cops know exactly what is going through your head.

As far as recieving packages: suspicious activity is more incriminating that normal activity.

If a package is delivered to your address, has your name on it, even if you were not expecting anything, the natural thing to do is sign, accept it, and see what it is.

Suspicious acts would include arguing with the mailman about accepting it, accepting something with a false name, or worse signing a false name and accepting. It is natural to wonder what is in the package (remember christmas). Not wanting to sign implies that you believe that package may contain something you do not want to acknowledge posession of. Not wanting to sign also shows that you are aware of the legal implications of a signature. That is suspicious.

Have the package addressed to you and sign for it. They cannot prove that you knew the contents of the package. They CAN prove you knew the contents of your house or apartment and that is why they have a search warrant and are waiting for you to establish probable cause by signing for the package.

The charges always get dropped for posession of what was in the package but they get you on what you have in your house. That is why you must have a clean place whenever you are expecting a delivery.

1. Have it addressed to you and sign if required
2. Have a clean house.
3. Do not consent to a search.
4. Do not talk to cops before talking to an attorney.
5. Always be respectful.

Big Thanks to NYC Defender for taking the time to answer my questions. Thanks, bro.
 
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another good idea..- before you do talk to anyone that you are unsure of about anything illegal, ask them if "they are in any way affiliated with any form of a law enforcement agency" if they say no and still bust you its entrapment and they will not be able to charge you.
 
chronicX357 said:
another good idea..- before you do talk to anyone that you are unsure of about anything illegal, ask them if "they are in any way affiliated with any form of a law enforcement agency" if they say no and still bust you its entrapment and they will not be able to charge you.
Click to expand...



HELL NO - HUGE MISTAKE

Good God I almost shit whenever I hear somone say this. The point of undercover investigation is have people believe they are not Cops. If they had to tell you when you asked if they were a cop they might as well be wearing a uniform!

Do you think if an undercover cop asks you for pills and you ask his if they are in any way affiliated with law enforcement do you think they are going to be like

"damn! shit! yeah, you got me. Hey but sshh, dont tell anyone."

Undercover officers have to lie because that is the whole point of the job. They can also participate in illegal activity, excluding of course murder or rape, because they are doing it to help the operation, and not due to criminal intent. They are highly encouraged not to, but the undercover cops can take drugs under extreme conditions, like if a columbian cocaine dealer had a gun to your head and wanted you to prove you were not a cop.

Its also a very dangerous misconception, because if someone asks a cop if he is a cop and he says no, then they are 100% sure he isnt and their floodgate of criminal activity opens.

Not good.

Entrapment is when someone is encouraged and persuaded to do something they would not normally do. For example if someone who had never sold drugs before was asked by a narc to try to find some coke for him and kept persisting that the guy find some coke, mabye even suggested a guy to go to. Then if the guy went out and bought the coke only because of the nagging narc, that would be entrapment.

Accepting drugs offered to you is not entrapment.


Someone correct me if I am wrong only if you KNOW something I said is wrong, not just think its wrong.

I'd love some input from NYC Defender or other attorneys on this thread.


btw, chronic- i'm not trying to slam you or anything, its just that your statement is one many people believe and can be very costly mistake.
 
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good post immortal, i love hearing people say that shit, if you ask they have to tell, such bullshit
 
chronicX357 said:
another good idea..- before you do talk to anyone that you are unsure of about anything illegal, ask them if "they are in any way affiliated with any form of a law enforcement agency" if they say no and still bust you its entrapment and they will not be able to charge you.
Click to expand...

Been watching too many movies.
 
DTA

Stone Cold Says it best. DONT TRUST ANYONE! A few years back my friend got set upwith about $1200 by his mom's boyfriend. He was facing a DUI and they took the info for a reduced charge.. Good news though, last I heard he was dying of cancer. My friend ended up with ARD. Which is like probation.

Keep it on the down low
 
Immortal:

First of all, I share your views on my respect for police officers; I wear my NYPD baseball cap in respect to those who gave their lives in the line of duty, bravely saving others.

I also am glad to see you got at least a "sticky" out of this.

I am sorry that the original post disappeared, because the information you originally posted was just top-notch and, I still maintain, the subject of a magazine article.

And I guess I'm feeling just a bit lazy, because on the subject of being busted, I submitted my experience and view.

Dexter

About prayers. They are a highly personal thing. Mine go in part to being a citizen of the finest country on this planet, one whose democracy and constitution have stood the test of time and survived a Civil War. Good or bad aspects...no other place in general in my opinion comes anywhere close.

Yep. And the subject of envy and ridicule. And in the meantime, there are thousands upon thousands of people around the world standing in line daily outside of U.S. Embassies - for that opportunity to live in the United States.
 
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Immortal Juicer said:
The charges always get dropped for posession of what was in the package but they get you on what you have in your house. That is why you must have a clean place whenever you are expecting a delivery.
Click to expand...

not true bro.

i always advocate keeping your house clean when you're expecting a delivery, so i agree with you on that.

i have seen from personal experiences where the evidence seized was from the original package and were the ONLY charges and did not get dropped.

signing or not signing makes no difference at all, so you may as well just sign it. if you feel better about it then don't sign it, but it's still in your posession and you're fucked. return to sender doesn't work . it's just an urban legend.

if you're smart you can think of ways to overcome these receiving problems, but chances are, if you're just a buyer and not a dealer you won't have the necessary capital to do so. then again, if you're just a buyer, there's much less risk involved that you'll get a controlled delivery unless you order large amounts from overseas w/ K or some other rec drug along with your roids.

smart suppliers can connive methods to avoid prosecution 100% due to lack of evidence even if their operations get busted...
 
Re: Re: Stay Safe, Bros. Important Info

Dr.Evil said:


not true bro.

i always advocate keeping your house clean when you're expecting a delivery, so i agree with you on that.

i have seen from personal experiences where the evidence seized was from the original package and were the ONLY charges and did not get dropped.

signing or not signing makes no difference at all, so you may as well just sign it. if you feel better about it then don't sign it, but it's still in your posession and you're fucked. return to sender doesn't work . it's just an urban legend.

if you're smart you can think of ways to overcome these receiving problems, but chances are, if you're just a buyer and not a dealer you won't have the necessary capital to do so. then again, if you're just a buyer, there's much less risk involved that you'll get a controlled delivery unless you order large amounts from overseas w/ K or some other rec drug along with your roids.

smart suppliers can connive methods to avoid prosecution 100% due to lack of evidence even if their operations get busted...
Click to expand...

They cannot prove you knew the contents of the package as long as you do not say or do anything which would be incriminating. What if someone who didnt like you, or another dealer trying to eliminate competition, placed an order and had it shipped to your address with your name, then tipped off law enforcement you were dealing and recieving packages frequently.

Similair to someone planting evidence to get someone busted. That is a very possible scenario, definately enough to provide reasonable doubt.

I agree, signing and all that return to sender shit is useless and just an myth probably from some MM2K from 1993.:D

The number one factor in a situation is self incrimination. If you say you did it, you just did their job for them! Keep your trap shut and make them decide if they should allocate their time, budget and resources to you, or any of the other 50 cocaine arrests made that week.

How did they make the charges stick in the cases you saw? I bet there were more factors that contributed to the conviction than simply recieving.

But if I'm wrong, I want to know why!!

Thanks bro, great post.
 
Well, Gentlemen

Having agreed with your comments and Dr. Evil's great posts, I'd say that there are actually a few of us around, but with a lot of guys living in a delusional, hyped sense of "getting the point," mainly from listening to people who don't know shit from shinola about the biz, offering all manner of crap advice about P.O. boxes and signing, et cetera, ad nauseam, ad infinitum.

I've often asked myself, "Where the hell are the kindred spirits? Don't most people get the point?"

Except for a tight circle in which I communicate...to my surprise (even the 20 year old "mods") just...don't...get...it.

Dr. Evil, how many people willl even take the time to visit the URL you posted, let alone copy it for reference?

It is so weird to be asked, and to answer such fundamentally important questions, to some person who, for whatever freaking reason, became a mod on a board. I won't say "serious board," because there are few these days.

I guess it's due in part to this Costco and K-Mart style of advertising and open board posting and "approving" international (and domestic) sources and the need to get stuff without considering the right precautions and comprehending the consequences in the U.S. and Canada, particulary.

What's more, this is all so complex that the "How to" guides just don't cut it. Not for me, anyway.

I know how to stay safe now, in the U.S. and how to keep people safe there and in Canada. And that's from knowledge reading from serious (and laughably ignorant) people, watching how guys take falls, seeing people being narked on, having been "busted" myself, going "on vacation," and having worked from within the U.S. and overseas.

But I have no experience (or even real interest) in how to smuggle Mexican veterinery products across border, though. I like pharmaceuticals, made in people-oriented, government-controlled, clean labs, not questionable or "underground" shit, despite the marketing hype.

Dexter
 
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What about this scenario...

How about the scenario of the arean we are currently in. What sort of legal issues could arise from utilizing this very board to search for, find, verify with mods and ultimately order from a source found here? Would this fall into the catagory of entrapment where the individual may not have done it in "real time", but due to the annonymous nature of the internet he felt less risk? What if there are actual DEA agents, or what have you, right here on the board posing as sources, I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT THERE ARE, just playing devils advocate, what would be the case then?? Especially in the case of common individuals ordering 20-40ml's for personal use??

This is a question I would like to have an answer to for obvious reasons. In my state to the best of my knowldege it is a misdemeanor offense similar to assault or a DUI, OUI. If your dumb enough to run your beak and get yourself in trouble.

I'll be checking back...Barbell265
 
Re: Well, Gentlemen

Dexter [/i] am sorry that the original post disappeared said:
I've often asked myself, "Where the hell are the kindred spirits? Don't most people get the point?"

Except for tight circle in which I communicate...to my surprise (even the 20 year old "mods") just don't get it.

It is so weird to be asked, and to answer such fundamentally important questions, to some person who, for whatever freaking reason, became a mod on a board. I won't say "serious board," because there are few.

What's more, this is all so complex that the "How to" guides just don't cut it. Not for me, anyway. I know how to stay safe now, in the U.S. and how to keep people safe there and in Canada.

Dexter
Click to expand...


Damn, bro. I'm sorry about deleting the first thread. It needed a better title because it kept on falling off the first page. There were mostly just some bumps and I forgot about your info.

I apologize.

I agree that its amazing the risks people take without even considering the consequences. Most people just do not like to think.

And you are exactly right about the how to guide's, which was not the intention of my post, not cutting it. When is comes down to it, anything in general, what matters is what YOU know, and knowing only what is written in a how to guide, is not truly knowing.

One scare was all I needed to realize I had 2 options. Get out, or get educated.
 
Immortal

I've no hard feelings whatsoever, Immortal. I'm sure there are others who could offer very valuable information, but what makes it so damned difficult for people to do so? Who wants to contribute to a thread that's going away when it should be a constant "sticky"?

Maybe it's just easier to post on a T-3 thread, like "When should I take clen?"

This thread, as well as your original, IMO, is just fundamentally significant. It is one fine thread.

I think the number of busts would go down 60%, an arbitrary figure, if, as you suggested, people would just use their heads. First, to understand what they're getting into, and then plan for a dozen different contingencies.

Frankly, not only are really good domestics rare IMO, but they just don't make enough money for the risks they constantly take. When I was working in the U.S., I can't count the number of precautions necessary to make sure everyone was safe. I could list a dozen right now; please forgive me for not.

And hats off to the policemen who put their lives on the line everyday, not for the money or glory, but because they are dedicated...even if they do have to enforce the Rule of Law, including AAS possession and distribution, which most knlwledgeable and athletic people consider, well, a joke.

Dexter
 
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Re: Re: Re: Stay Safe, Bros. Important Info

Immortal Juicer said:

How did they make the charges stick in the cases you saw? I bet there were more factors that contributed to the conviction than simply recieving.
Click to expand...

simply by connecting the massive amounts found in the house w/ what's in the package. i don't know if they can prove 100% that the person had knowledge of the contents, but b/c of what was found in the house, there's a possibility that a jury will not see past this.

moral of the story is, clean house when you receive...
 
Re: What about this scenario...

barbell265 said:
What if there are actual DEA agents, or what have you, right here on the board posing as sources, I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT THERE ARE, just playing devils advocate, what would be the case then?? Especially in the case of common individuals ordering 20-40ml's for personal use??
Click to expand...

i hate to break it to you pal, but there are actual DEA agents on the boards. a few boards i know actually got subpoenaed by the DEA b/c one of its members was busted and his IP address and other info from the boards were subpoenaed.

DEA and other agents don't pose as sources. they're posing as customers, trying to get to sources. and yes, the boards are swarmed with them now.

it is very unlikely that you'll just get a controlled delivery on a small buy from a source. remember, they're trying to find the big fish, not the little guys. there are times where they might try to get to little guys in order to get to the big fish, but in the world of the internet where it's so easy to go directly to the big fish it would be a waste of the agents' time to first go through the little people.
 
Immortal Juicer said:




HELL NO - HUGE MISTAKE


Entrapment is when someone is encouraged and persuaded to do something they would not normally do. For example if someone who had never sold drugs before was asked by a narc to try to find some coke for him and kept persisting that the guy find some coke, mabye even suggested a guy to go to. Then if the guy went out and bought the coke only because of the nagging narc, that would be entrapment.
Click to expand...

entrapment is no longer used (cause Court of Laws here ruled it was against our Bill of Rights). At least you can't arrest someone who never sold drugs in his life cause of an entrapment op. But you still can bust the source (the guy who first sold the drug to our innocent victim).
 
Let me just add...

When police officer use tricks like deceptive quesioning, and threatening penalties to get people to give a statement or consent to a search, they are...

...in effect purposly attempting to make a citizen waive their rights, which were established as laws by the government designed to protect its citizens and guarantee them with their God given rights. The exact same laws the police office swore to honor and uphold so that we could have the luxury of these self- evident rights we found to be true.

So basically they are doing the exact opposite of what the swear by oath.
 
I am very happy that Immortal Juicer is spreading the gospel of don't speak to the police without a lawyer and don't consent to any searches of your person or your house. Thanks, Immortal, for listening!

I'm not thrilled by the prospect of a client signing for a package. It's true that without an incriminating statement as to your knowledge of the contents of the package it's difficult (but not impossible) to prove that you knew what you were receiving. If law enforcement makes a controlled delivery to your door (after you have corresponded with the "source"), then doesn't signing for the package bolster the inference that you expected that very package? If I were a DA, I would certainly argue that point. This hypothetical is avoided by receiving packages with siganture waived.

As to the subject of entrapment, Immortal Juicer's paraphrase is correct of the principle of the defense, but the example given is not entrapment. Prodding and persistence by an officer to get a citizen to do something illegal doesn't make out entrapment. At least in New York, the officer's conduct must "create a substantial risk that the offense jwould be committed by a person not otherwise predisposed to commit it." Merely affording the person an opportunity to commit the crime is not sufficient to raise the defense. In practice, it's very hard to receive an entrapment charge at trial. As a side note, if the police conduct was outrageous, federal due process may warrant dismissal of the case, despite a defendant's predisposition to commit the crime. See United States v. Chin , 934 F.2d 393, 398 (2d Cir.1991)

I can't remember everyone's issues on this thread. If I see other issues to address or if anyone has any additional questions, I'll post again.
 
Awesome!! Thanks NYC Defender!

The more I learn about how the CJ system works, the more I'm amazed at how helpless and vulenerable I was by not fully understanding my rights.

I read up on proving guilty knowledge, and the number one factor in establishing guilt was inconsistent statements at the time of arrest, when the defendant was scared as hell and basically said anything he could to get out of the situation, and that which he provided in court after he and his attorney had an opprutunity to discuss and prepare the best case possible.

The Ramsey's are a perfect example. They didnt give a statement to law enforcement for over a year after their daughter was found dead in their home. That is some pretty convincing evidence of an extremely severe offense. But look what happened.

The burden of proof is on the state, and civil rights are the luxury of the offender. For gods sake dont waive those rights, incriminate yourself, and do the prosecutors job for them.

There are so many people sitting in prison right now because they did just that!!
 
Re: What about this scenario...

barbell265 said:
What sort of legal issues could arise from utilizing this very board to search for, find, verify with mods and ultimately order from a source found here? Would this fall into the catagory of entrapment where the individual may not have done it in "real time", but due to the annonymous nature of the internet he felt less risk? What if there are actual DEA agents, or what have you, right here on the board posing as sources, I AM IN NO WAY IMPLYING THAT THERE ARE, just playing devils advocate, what would be the case then?? Especially in the case of common individuals ordering 20-40ml's for personal use??
Click to expand...

Still not entrapment under any of your scenarios. Just because a discussion board might provide some anonymity to your actions, no law enforcement agent is making you do something you otherwise would not do. Enticement is not entrapment.

If a DEA agent was posing as a source, there might be entrapment if the agent sends you an unsolicited e-mail. But if you request information from the agent and then order--that's not entrapment. Hypothetically speaking--let's suppose a board has a classifides section for sources to advertise. If a DEA agent posed as a source and listed the most incredible prices for AS. Further suppose that you write the "source" and place an order. That's still not entrapment. You're doing something that you wanted to do. The law enforcement agent merely gave you the opportunity to commit the crime.
 
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How common are controlled deliveries today? It seems like the Feds have much bigger issues to address than some guy buying steroids from overseas where they are legal.

And on HBO Sports and recently in ESPN magazine they referred to the low priority of juice.

I believe it was a DEA agent that said "you dont go rob liquor stores to support a steroid habit." or something to that extent.

Are they really looking for it, or enforcing the law when it is thrown in their face?
 
nycdefender

You clearly know the law, not to insult your background through my ignorance of it.

PLEASE, do not let this thread go away.

It should be considered "Platinum" privilege without the cost.

Dexter
 
Immortal Juicer said:
How common are controlled deliveries today? It seems like the Feds have much bigger issues to address than some guy buying steroids from overseas where they are legal.
Click to expand...

it's almost non-existent for domestic orders, but if customs intercepts a large order, only the kind that sources would get, then there is a great chance that they will do a controlled delivery. a search warrant for these cases will only take 2 days to draft up and get approval from a magistrate. they won't waste much time.

for smaller orders that get intercepted by customs, it's almost always a customs letter, not a controlled delivery unless you have things other than steroids in the package ie K, ghb, etc...
 
DEA showed at my door one morning, posing as FED EX. I was expecting the package, and the only thing that tipped me off was the fact that FED EX employees are ALWAYS in a hurry and this guy was real patient, just smiling and waiting for me to sign. His uniform was pressed and his hair was perfectly combed, and he didn't have the arms that those guys usually have. These things registered to me, subconsciously I believe, but I looked him in the eye and he smiled. At that point I didn't know he was DEA, but I knew something wasn't right. I asked him who sent it, and he examined the package and read the name (fake) and asked if I was expecting the package. I asked him why he would ask me a question like that, at which point he suggested that we 'step inside' for a moment as he flashed his badge. I denied him entry, and asked for his I.D., which he showed. His partner appeared from around the corner and the two of them explained to me the seriousness of the trouble that I was in. I asked them why I was in trouble, and they said for distributing drugs. I then faked a call to my attorney (I did not have one) and let them overhear me say that no, I did not have any ideas about what was happening, and yes, they had tried to force me to accept a package that I had yet to touch. I then hung up the phone and asked them if I was under arrest, and they said that they just wanted to ask a few questions. I asked if this was an attempt to interrogate me, and if so, on what grounds. Silence. I then asked them if they had any proof at all of what was in the package, and if they knew, why were they even asking me? Furthermore, I agreed that we could all wait for my attorney to arrive, and discuss the issue further at that point, but they would need to wait outside. They took the package and put iton the ground and OPENED IT RIGHT THERE. It was very incriminating. They asked me what the pills (X) were. How should I know? They asked what the amps (V) were. I said that I didn't know. Then, the lead guy just said, 'Well, our mistake, it looks like nothing. Here. Sorry to have bothered you." He tried to HAND ME THE PACKAGE. I told him it wasn't mine, and that I was gonna call my attorney again right now, could I please have both of their names and id's and so forth. Then they just took the package and left. On my way out of the apartment complex, there were eight sherrif's cars and four undercover cops watering plastic flowers in the foyer. I waved at them and told them that the plants were plastic. No shit. They actually laughed and nodded. It was the last I heard. No search warrant, nothing. That is the closest I have ever come.
 
Good Reference Materiel

Learn all this stuff before you have to!

http://www.aclu.org/pdf/bustcard.pdf

http://www.aclu.org/library/know_your_rights.pdf

Good, concise info.

I love the "bustcard" idea! Like whipping out your travel size,
"Criminal Activity for Dummies" reference card, that never leaves your side, doesnt a seem a bit suspicious!

bustcard.gif


But you do have the right to do so, and that is what matters.
:D
 
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immortal, you are correct about the officers. undercover agents do NOT have to say they are cops when asked. not local, county or federal law enforcement requires that.
 
Shredded's intuition was incredible. Accept nothing, tell nothing, don't let them inand ask for an attorney immediately. They can't interview you after you invoke miranda. Urban Legend..ask a cop if he is a cop three times and they must tell you, or they can't arrest me without their hat on..ect..ect. They can get a warrant in an hour or less where I am. Be safe
 
Good Information!!

First a big thanks to Imortal Juicer for initiating this thread and also to NYC Defender for clearing the haze.

Another question though, if you look at volumes from a medical point, take test prop. for example, most patients recieve only 0.5 - 1.0 ml as little as per month; some every other week. If someone ordered a "normal" stacked cycle using say test, d-bol and fina and planned to run for 12-14 weeks were talking a minimum of 40ml and 120 -or so- pills. Now speaking in medical terms that is way more than any one person would need , or get from a normal prescription. What kind of volume constitutes personal use v.s. trafficking? Does it differ from state to state or is it based on the drug? or a standard volume for all AAS??

P.S. fkinshredded you had an angel on your shoulder that day Bro'!

Barbell265...
 
INSANE 1 said:
immortal, you are correct about the officers. undercover agents do NOT have to say they are cops when asked. not local, county or federal law enforcement requires that.
Click to expand...


That has got to be one of the most DANGEROUS misconception about law enforcement. Someone is ignorant enough to believe that and then when the undercover says "fuck no, i'm not a cop. how do i know your not a fuckin cop?" Then they think believe 100% they are not a cop, and they are FUCKED. to say the least.

From my understanding, undercover agents, may take drugs, but only under extreme circumstances when their safety or the safety of the investigation is in jeapordy. They are strongly discouraged to do so, but if they are forced, it is permitted because they do not have criminal intent.
 
Another thing...

Now this absolutly pisses me off about law enforcement. Every time I see a COPS where they are doing a prostitution sting, and have a damn task force with 10 officers, two hotel rooms, wired with surveillence camers and microphones, and five unmarked cars, all that time money and effort.

Then, some guy picks up a undercover, in his piece of shit van, and drives around the corner and asks how much for a blowjob. Bam, three cars roll up, guns drawn, the guy gets out and he is 40 years old, 350lb fat ass, loser who has had about as shitty life as you can. So ugly and such a loser he has to pay to get his dick sucked because there is no other way he is getting any.

He got out, was a nice guy, apologized to the officers, and they cuffed him and took him in.

THEN THEY SAID "YEAH, GOOD JOB GUYS, WE MADE SOME GOOD BUSTS TODAY," and they are actually proud of what they accomplished by preventing a fat ass from getting a blowjob.

Whats next, they kick in the bathroom door when he is jackin off?

All that time money and resources to making the world a safer place by preventing blowjob.

I know I'll sleep better tonight. :rolleyes:
 
Fukkenshredded said:
No search warrant, nothing.
Click to expand...

that's strange. it doesn't take long to get a search warrant in any city.... if they knew what was in the package (and it sounds like they did) a search warrant could have been attained in a matter of hours and they would have had a full right to search in your home for anything related to what was in the package. it doesn't make sense to me that they didn't take the time to get this first... i'm not disbelieving your story. i'm just dumbfounded...
 
Re: Good Information!!

barbell265 said:

What kind of volume constitutes personal use v.s. trafficking? Does it differ from state to state or is it based on the drug? or a standard volume for all AAS??
Click to expand...

it doesn't matter. it's all the same. if they catch you with 500,000 bottles of t200, but didn't catch you selling any of it, it's just a posessions charge (maybe posession with the intent to distribute). if you only have 1 bottle of t200 and you're caught in the act of selling it then you're a dealer.

the federal sentencing guidelines is as follows:

if you are caught selling up to 500 units then it's a level 6 offense. even if you are caught selling 1 unit, it's still a level 6 offense. a level 6 offense carries a 0-6 month prison sentence if convicted in a trial by jury. in most cases this will be suspended and given probation depending on the judge's attitude toward you and AS.

**(1 unit = 1 10ml bottle of any steroid in any mg concentration)
**level 6 offenses only carry 0-6 month sentences in the federal guidelines if there are no other enhancements or aggrevating factors.
 
All I have to say is wow. Thanks for taking the time to look out for us Dr. Evil, Immortal, and nycdefender and everyone else. Keep the stories coming!! So far it seems that no one has seen any busts when the person had a clean house and was just ordering small amounts of AAS (no recreational drugs) as long as the package was not yet opened. It would seem logical that these cases would not be worth the DEA's time but if anyone knows of any cases where there was a convinction please share!
 
Dr. Evil--

I was expecting activity myself. In retrospect, just because I did not detect any activity certainly does not mean it wasn't happening. As an addendum, I have had a disproportionate number of regular packages sent to me undergo inspection. I understand that there is really no obligation whatsoever on that side of the fence to inform the citizen of anything, ever. Clearly, the more we post about certain details, the more we educate those who wish to pin us down. For example, I operate under the assumption that I have been watched ever since that incident. I know for a fact that there are those on this and other boards who know exactly who I am and will now be able to reference the above story, should they be clever enough to pin down the year and location (you will notice these omissions). Furthermore, why bust a guy early when he might lead to a bigger catch later? Evidence is evidence. They have time. That is why I do not order anything, ask for anything, reference anything in terms of people populating this board and others. I have posted about certain things in a lengthy and revealing fashion. I can only assume that there is more than enough reason to at least question me, should the authorities ever decide to do that. Of course, as Fukkenshredded is a fictional character and as I personally do not recommend any illegal activity ever, complications could arise. Just keep in mind that whatever you have done on or through these boards is known in detail by the authorities. Assuming otherwise is simply foolish. Angel on my shoulder that day? I'll tell you what...I've had an angel on my shoulder for a long long time, and I hope that state of grace continues. And I am not talking about getting busted or anything so socially oriented. Grace delivered me, folks...I'll just leave it at that and hope it continues. Grow safe.
 
I got an interesting bust story for you, but I am on my way out the door so it will have to wait til later.l
 
Very informative thread. What about this scenario: Let's say, hypothetically, I have a prescription for Depo-Testosterone, but I can't afford the outrageous price at the drugstore and no generics are available (and they are not). I could, however, afford an equivalent from IP at $33 or some other international source. Can I legally order this medication from overseas and show customs a copy of my prescription if they confiscate it and send me a letter? I doubt they would send a swat team to my house for 1 unit of test.
Thanks
 
BeeFma said:
Very informative thread. What about this scenario: Let's say, hypothetically, I have a prescription for Depo-Testosterone, but I can't afford the outrageous price at the drugstore and no generics are available (and they are not). I could, however, afford an equivalent from IP at $33 or some other international source. Can I legally order this medication from overseas and show customs a copy of my prescription if they confiscate it and send me a letter?
Click to expand...

yes, but you should have a copy of your prescription sent to IP by fax and have him send the prescription along with the meds in the same package to avoid unnecessary delays at customs if it were to be checked.

you can certainly claim it later as you had said, but that would take a much longer time.
 
Re: Re: Good Information!!

Dr.Evil said:


it doesn't matter. it's all the same. if they catch you with 500,000 bottles of t200, but didn't catch you selling any of it, it's just a posessions charge (maybe posession with the intent to distribute). if you only have 1 bottle of t200 and you're caught in the act of selling it then you're a dealer.
Click to expand...

True, but depending upon the jurisidiction (e.g., New York) possession with intent to sell carries the same penalties as an actual sale. I do not want to leave the members of this board with the notion that if they aren't caught selling or distributing the AS that you only face a slap on the wrist for possession. I don't think that you implied that, Dr. Evil, but the thought did occur to me to dispel that misconception.

Barbell--possession with intent charges differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as does the quantity of AS that triggers the charge.
 
This, without a doubt in my mind, is the most interesting thread I've ever read on EF.

F-Shredded, what you detailed was a very interesting story. Assuming it's true (and I have no reason to disbelieve you) -- all I can say is that those guys were goofballs, and I have a tendency to agree with Dr. Evil (by the way, Evil, my brother played a role in "Austin Powers, the Spy Who Shagged ME".)

Even if nycdefender's though-provoking comments are given from the vantage point of NYC...how REALLY different do various jurisdictions treat such cases or demand professionalism from their law enforcement officers?

I'm not disagreeing with Immortal's commentary regarding the waste of taxpayers' dollars. It sucks. At it will probably only get worse.

nycdefender, I want to thank you for addressing a question I have openly posed on several occassions for two years, with no sensible reply: The relevance or importance of signing or not signing.

This is a very complex topic.

I used to NOT think highly of the ACLU; I've changed my opinions over the years.

Dexter, and

right or wrong, God Bless freedom, liberty, democratic constitutions, and a Rule of Law - compared to the world's population, there are few people living under such conditions - even with their annoying faults.
 
This is an excellent thread.

I'm a California attorney. Although I don't specialize in criminal law, my understanding is that California's rules regarding entrapment and those governing the behavior of undercover officers are substantially the same as those described by Immortal Juicer and NYCDefender.

Entrapment is a defense that exists mostly in fiction, it is nearly impossible to prevail on.

An undercover law enforcement officer is never compelled to reveal his true identity and there are no "magic words" that would trigger a duty to do so.

I would like to add some general comments regarding civil rights. Our Supreme Court has been pretty consistent in eroding protection of the accused and in giving law enforcement broad latitude in investigating crimes. The police are allowed to play all kinds of dirty tricks, such as "good cop, bad cop", lying to a suspect about how his friend has already "spilled the beans" and he had better come clean, if he does "they will go easy on him", etc. Never assume that police have to play fair or be truthful.

As already mentioned, you have the right to remain silent - DON'T WAIVE IT! If you say anything at all, it should be "I want to speak to an attorney." Also, NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!
 
Trevdog said:
The police are allowed to play all kinds of dirty tricks, such as "good cop, bad cop", lying to a suspect about how his friend has already "spilled the beans" and he had better come clean, if he does "they will go easy on him", etc. Never assume that police have to play fair or be truthful.

As already mentioned, you have the right to remain silent - DON'T WAIVE IT! If you say anything at all, it should be "I want to speak to an attorney." Also, NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!
Click to expand...

Great one! I forgot all about it. Lying to a suspect about how his friend, the real suspect, had already pointed the finger at him, will cause a panic real quick.

"WTF? HE is the one that...!"

Another one I heard was that they act like they believe you are guilty of a much more severe offense, say heroin trafficking, and in the middle of grilling you about it, the "good cop" steps in and says "I think we have the wrong guy, all this kid has is some steroids, right?"

"Yeah, yeah. Steroids, no heroin, just steroids. I swear."

BUSTED.:bawling:

Mabye I've been watching too many movies.
 
Uh, I don't there are that many movies of such nature as you've suggested, Immortal.

I think you have a good head on your shoulders. And I'm glad to see Trev chime in on this one, too, along with nycdefender, and, of course, others.

This thread is an "Elite Fitness Classic."

Dexter
 
So....

So being caught with 1 -or- 100 units without the intent to distribute brings the same penalty; 0-6 months, level 6 offense. But let me get this straight, it is a FEDERAL offense not a misdemeanor offense if caught with gear for personal use?? Meaning that with one bust your a "felon"? I thought there were misdemeanor and felony offenses, but this is a federal issue correct? Does this mean you would be classified as a felon if convicted? or is it a misdemeanor offense?
 
Re: So....

barbell265 said:
So being caught with 1 -or- 100 units without the intent to distribute brings the same penalty; 0-6 months, level 6 offense. But let me get this straight, it is a FEDERAL offense not a misdemeanor offense if caught with gear for personal use?? Meaning that with one bust your a "felon"? I thought there were misdemeanor and felony offenses, but this is a federal issue correct? Does this mean you would be classified as a felon if convicted? or is it a misdemeanor offense?
Click to expand...


What is sad is a person is better off being caught smuggling gear over the U.S. border(for personal use) then to be nailed threw the mail-----In a lot of cases one won't even see a court date....

Lets say I have a friend that is caught at the border bringing over a small amount----and he doesn't see in the inside of a court house but just fined $500 dollars and he is on his way with some paper work to sign-----My question is lets say I'm nailed with a small amount of gear(personal use) that I got threw lets say the mail-----I get a court date and all that bullshit----Couldn't my lawyer use whats happing at the border as some kind of plea bargin(to me that looks like a double standard) NO? Just wondering--any lawyers out their?
 
Re: So....

barbell265 said:
So being caught with 1 -or- 100 units without the intent to distribute brings the same penalty; 0-6 months, level 6 offense. But let me get this straight, it is a FEDERAL offense not a misdemeanor offense if caught with gear for personal use?? Meaning that with one bust your a "felon"? I thought there were misdemeanor and felony offenses, but this is a federal issue correct? Does this mean you would be classified as a felon if convicted? or is it a misdemeanor offense?
Click to expand...

good question barbells. my earlier post was pretty messed up, so i'll try to clarify a bit more.

the federal sentencing guidelines only would apply to you if you are caught selling the gear and then they find more gear in your home afterward, so they can reasonably get you for intent to distribute for the gear found in your home. this is a felony charge.

if you're just caught receiving a large amnt of gear and not actually caught selling with a controlled buy then it is likely that the state will handle your case, not a federal prosecutor. i'm not too familiar with state charges and sentencing rules, so i don't know if this would be a just a misdemeanor or a felony posession.
 
Awesome post. To further your point, an attaorney once told me that 90% of all people who end up getting convicted on drug charges get convicted because they consented to search. He said you basically forfeit all of your constitutional rights when you consent.
 
Re: So....

barbell265 said:
So being caught with 1 -or- 100 units without the intent to distribute brings the same penalty; 0-6 months, level 6 offense. But let me get this straight, it is a FEDERAL offense not a misdemeanor offense if caught with gear for personal use?? Meaning that with one bust your a "felon"? I thought there were misdemeanor and felony offenses, but this is a federal issue correct? Does this mean you would be classified as a felon if convicted? or is it a misdemeanor offense?
Click to expand...

Although Dr. Evil answered your question, I believe that you are confused between the terms "federal" vs. "felony."

The jursidiction that prosecutes you can either be the federal or the state authorities.

A felony is a crime for which a period of incarceration in excess of one year is authorized. A "felon" is a person who has been convicted of a felony. A misdemeanor is a crime for which the maximum period of incarceration can be up to and including one year of incarceration.

Barbell, I assume your question was, "If I get busted by the federal authorities for possession (not possession with intent to distribute), will the resulting criminal conviction result in a felony conviction? No. Simple federal possession is a misdemeanor. There are a couple of members of this board who have been convicted of federal, misdemanor, possession charges. So I don't agree with part of Dr. Evil's response in that: 1) the federal sentencing guidelines do apply to misdemeanor possessions (it's just not the same section as the penalties for distribution); and 2) federal authorities don't just turn over simple possession cases to state authorities. I'm sure it does happen, but I can't say what the odds might be.
 
NYC Defender,

Thanks for the great advice you have given. Where can we find more info about individual rights, and precautionary measures to help stay out of trouble?

As you can probably tell, I like to learn about the CJ system before I have to!

One more thing, how big of a factor is a statement in the DA's decision to press charges? If you invoke your right to counsel and do not give a statement to police, would the DA be less likely to prosecute because they have nothing to work with (other than evidence, of course) and your defense is still open to any explanation possible?

I know whatever explanation I came up with after being arrested by law enforcement :bawling: would not be as good as my attorney's explanation after analyzing all the facts!

I remember hearing that the % of people that waive their right to counsel and talk to police is >%90 their first time being arrested, then drops to ~40%, then ~15% their 2nd and 3rd times

Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
i must be confused.

i was under the impression that states handle cases within their own states and if the offense crossed over borders then it became a federal case... :confused:

i know of people who have gotten busted selling locally and face state charges of posession and distribution. the ones i know who get busted selling over the internet face federal charges of distribution and posession with the intent to distribute...
 
Dr.Evil said:
i must be confused.

i was under the impression that states handle cases within their own states and if the offense crossed over borders then it became a federal case... :confused:

i know of people who have gotten busted selling locally and face state charges of posession and distribution. the ones i know who get busted selling over the internet face federal charges of distribution and posession with the intent to distribute...
Click to expand...

Selling over the net is interstate distribution so the Feds would have to be involved. People busted locally can be charged with state or federal offenses, or both. I know it sounds like double jeopardy, but its not. If someone faces federal charges the state DA will not pursue because federal sentencing carries a much more severe penalty and if the person is aquitted, there is no way in hell a state DA will win. The Federal conviction rate is ~99%.

After reviewing the evidence and severity of the offense, Federal prosecutors may choose to indict. If the evidence is strong and it is a serious offense such as any index crime or narcotic trafficking they are more likely to do so, as opposed to a weak case of marijuana posession.

If you get indicted on federal charges, you are in some serious shit. My attorney told me he would never consider taking a federal case for less than $10,000.

Feds dont fuck around. If they want you bad enough, they are going to get you. Look at Gotti or Al Capone. Fuck, they invented a new offense, racketeering, to put him away!

If the Feds want you so bad that they invent new laws and offenses, you are pretty much fucked!
 
I'm gonna chime in here and try to clear up a common misconception about Canada and AS.

It is commonly thought that AS is legal to posses in CAnada...this is complete and utter bullshit. Possesion of AS with or without the intent to distribute carries the same penalties as someone who buys or sells restricted drugs (IE morphine, demerol etc)



So, please don't let our Canadian bro's fool themselves into false security. It is just as much an offence in the north as it is in the south.
 
the feds would have to have enough evidence of your sales over the internet to get a grand jury indictment on you. this would be hard to do without a controlled buy. if you fall for a controlled buy then it almost always will cross state lines and will automatically fall under federal jurisdiction anyway.

my point is, w/o a controlled buy and just posession, i don't see how the feds would really get involved w/ steroid charges.
 
Three Days' Advanced Notice!

Before this "EF Classic" sticky goes away, I would appreciate it if there would be another sticky, entitled "Three Days' Advanced Notice!" before this goes away.

I have copied many posts, but the sheer number of quality posts is overwelming, and I want to copy them ALL, from beginning to end.

Just three days' advance notice. I have never seen a more relevant, informative thread on EF than this one. Information that is truly precious; that which cannot simply be gotten anywhere.

Dexter
 
Immortal Juicer said:
One more thing, how big of a factor is a statement in the DA's decision to press charges? If you invoke your right to counsel and do not give a statement to police, would the DA be less likely to prosecute because they have nothing to work with (other than evidence, of course) and your defense is still open to any explanation possible?
Click to expand...

Not being a D.A., I cannot say for certain. I know that the lack of statements does not make an ADA more likely to prosecute you. Personally, I don't think that they would drop a case b/c the case lacked any statements. They figure that they can let a grand or petit jury decide whether there's enough evidence. Usually, I only have possession cases dismissed outright b/c the search is so bad.
 
guards said:
I'm gonna chime in here and try to clear up a common misconception about Canada and AS.

It is commonly thought that AS is legal to posses in CAnada...this is complete and utter bullshit. Possesion of AS with or without the intent to distribute carries the same penalties as someone who buys or sells restricted drugs (IE morphine, demerol etc)



So, please don't let our Canadian bro's fool themselves into false security. It is just as much an offence in the north as it is in the south.
Click to expand...

Out of curiousity & because another member took your position in a thread, I looked up the Canadian statute. The statute seems only to punish people who "seek" or "obtain" AS, not people who "possess" AS. So the conduct that is punished is more than mere dominion or control (i.e. possession) of the AS. The only punishment for possessing AS is when the person intends to traffic them.

Perhaps possession of AS might be punished under some other statute that covers other schedules of drugs (as you mentioned morphine, demerol), but I don't have access to that statute. Would you please do me the favor, guards, of sending me the statute which you think makes AS possession illicit.

Granted, I am not a Canadian lawyer. I am willing to be corrected.
 
Last edited:
Reasoning flaw....

Immortal Juicer said:
....Have the package addressed to you and sign for it. They cannot prove that you knew the contents of the package. They CAN prove you knew the contents of your house or apartment and that is why they have a search warrant and are waiting for you to establish probable cause by signing for the package....
Click to expand...

I'd be careful with what they teach you in a CJ program. Lots of BAD INFO gets passed on there.

In this case, you assert that a package delivered to me is totally normal and proves nothing as they can't prove I know what's in it, nor can I be expected to refuse a package that's addressed to me even if I wasn't expecting one.

Probable cause requires facts or events that make the belief that something illegal is going on reasonable to the common prudent person standard. You just destroyed probable case.

Ship me a box of steroids with the cops knowing. I didn't know it was coming, and I didn't know I should refuse the package, but by accepting it as normal grants probable cause for a search warrant or warrantless search on the spot? That's BS and they should know better than teach it. It's akin to a pretextual search.

"Your honor, we want a warrant because the guy accepted a package of steroids under controlled delivery so we believe there are currently illegal drugs in that home."

That's bogus. The only thing the cops know might be there are the illegal drugs they delivered/planted.

State laws vary, but generally, that's why you get those Customs letters when they find your stuff. A controlled delivery is often reserved for suspected pushers, not users. Under your scenereo, the cops do this to see if a suspected dealer will accept a package of drugs. That, coupled with other evidence gathered over time, paints a picture that supports probable cause for a warrant, not a single delivery to a mere user.

Of course, this goes back to the idea of keeping your mouth shut. The cops can't base a search on the fact that you look like a classic 'roid case. They must be able to establish to a judge that you are using, and sometimes moreso--dealing, steroids to get the warrant.

The only exception I see is a delivery of such quantity (I know people who buy a year's supply at one time rather than several small buys), that the cops presume on intercept that it's going to a pusher and not just a user.
 
I feel this should be made a sticky again. I didn't read it until now and just learned alot. This info is priceless and can save your ass. We can't get bullied into hanging our own necks by the feds so educate yourself!!!!!!!! Good post immortal
---PEACE---Mad Max
 
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