So how does Anadrol Cause gyno?

[Bruce]

oh yes i am with you on that. nolva is a poor anti E to use ed as a preventitive. you need to use aromasin, aifm, letro, or even adex. nolva will only get rid of the bitch tits once you get them. i thought you were saying that nolva worsens gyno cause that has been going around and it is not true. simple misunderstanding. k to you

 

[macrophage69alpha]

all indications are that anadrol is a progestin, though there is no solid research to verify it

 

[solidspine]

oh yes i am with you on that. nolva is a poor anti E to use ed as a preventitive.

I have been using it for 10 years and have done some pretty serious cycles, and don't have gyno. The stuff I have is liquid, tastes horrible, but don't have gyno.

I am on something all the time, just test e at present.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I have been using it for 10 years and have done some pretty serious cycles, and don't have gyno. The stuff I have is liquid, tastes horrible, but don't have gyno.

I am on something all the time, just test e at present.

some people just are not prone, especially if they have low estrogen levels during development (high estro during development means greater proliferation of ER).

 

[macrophage69alpha]

however that being said, it has similar progesterone suppressing effects as nandrolone. Though with oxymethelone that may be secondary, have not found any binding studies to verify

 

[thebrakes]

most of what i read and experienced indicates it binds to the ER. i used raloxifene (a much better SERM than nolva) and not only did it reduce the drol effects on mass gains, but kept the water off too (i used IP drol which has a lab test showing it is legit)...it just made me hard and strong - no water, no really bad sides at all, actually. i really think drol acts on the ER, but it isnt proven of course.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Big Cat has stated the following on a few threads at CEM: Anybody care to debate it? This isn'tmy area so maybe this will bring up some discussion on the topic....

Big Cat:

Desaulles PA. Les hormones anabolisantes du point de vue experimental. Helv Med Acta 1960; 479-503

"Anadrol was shown to be less progestagenic than even testosterone, so that has nothing to do with it. The current theory is that the A-ring is acidic due to the 2-hydroxymethylene group and therefor, oxymetholone ITSELF acts as an estrogen directly on the estrogen receptor."

"Combined with its poor androgenic effects, that makes anadrol more of an estrogen than an androgen."

"Anadrol Acts like an estrogen, or at least one of its metabolites does. regardless, aromatase is not involved, so an AI would be useless."
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Big Cat in reference to taking Winny to combat Anadrol bloat from a different thread at CEM:

"First of all, it has been proven that anadrol is NOT a progestin, in fact it has less progestagenic effects than testosterone does. Its effects are most likely from anadrol acting directly on the estrogen receptor, a theory supported by both PA and Bill Llewellyn, considering it has an acidic A-ring."

"Secondly anadrol is a very weak androgen, so weak it could not be determined. Its only androgenic risk is reduction of the 2-hydroxymethylene group to DHT, which is very small and on top of that systemic, so unlikely to cause more than a few zits. In fact winstrol, also a weak androgen, was stronger than anadrol."

"Does winstrol lower water retention ? What is your evidence for this?"

"Unlike anadrol, winstrol IS a progestin and not an anti-progestin. Its a very weak progestin, so possibly of no concern, but its not only evident in its activity at the PR but also in many of its non-genomic effects like inhibiting LAG binding."

"There is no such thing as hardening muscles."

"It seems to me that anadrol is hardly the drug for you. You seem way to concerned with estrogen. Anadrol's characteristics indicate that its weak androgenic nature and strong estrogenic nature are inherent and that it is therefor dependent on its estrogenic component for results. Since it acts directly on the ER, the only effective way to reduce its estrogenic activity is using an ER blocker. Which would also pretty much render your anadrol useless."
******************************************************

BMJ

 

[Caper26]

Big Cat has stated the following on a few threads at CEM: Anybody care to debate it? This isn'tmy area so maybe this will bring up some discussion on the topic....

Hey,

I think i have to agree with ya BMJ. After more research and reading this article from Big Cat i think it probally acts directly on the receptor and something like Nolva would be needed.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catanadrol.htm

I have 100 25mg drol and 30ml of test and AI all set to go and now i think i might have to drop the drol and not even take it. I am to nervous about gyno sides because i am prone and since it seems nolva would be the best choice to combat potential gyno i would be only trading lack of sides for gains. I should have just got some D-bol something that i know works and can manage effectively. Live and learn i guess. I don't know if i should go for just a test only cycle or throw in my drol with the test and use nolva. I wonder if it would be worth it? Especially were i will be taking an AI for the test and some much of the drol gains are from water. May i should just sell it to someone who is not prone to gyno and stick with the test. This has been some frustrating research on drol but glad i did it.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

1. there is no evidence that anadrol binds to the ER. Neither bill, pat nor "cat" have ever produced such evidence.
2. the evidence that anadrol is a progestin is indirect, though at least there is some evidence for it.
3. the old evator ani assay that was used to measure androgenic/anabolic effects of steroids, including anadrol, has been found to be very innacurate.

btw- not saying that anadrol might not bind to the ER, there are many promiscuous ligands so it is a possibility. However no one has produced any evidence that it does.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Thanks Macro!

That helps some. Too bad there isn't more research done on this issue. Probably the only thing to really do is just take it and get blood tests for verification of elevated hormone levels i'm guessing?

The thing that really bothers me with anadrol is that before AI's and stuff like Cabergoline and Bromocriptine and B6 were used like they are today, Nolvadex was the only thing really available. BC states that since Anadrol acts like an estrogen with no aromatization from the compound itself, Nolvadex will/should do its job at competing for the ER (rendering the effectiveness of AI's useless since no aromatase is involved). However, what really makes me wonder with this process/theory is that many people did in fact use Nolvadex with anadrol back in "the day" and still received gyno from this compound. Even many users today who have used large doses of Nolva have expressed the same.

Granted, maybe they were just very sensitive to estrogen itself, but i've never really heard anything positive from actual users in regards to Nolva helping to prevent their Anadrol-induced gyno.

The other thing that sucks, is that if it acts as a progestin, and if BC is indeed wrong, then Nolva should obviously not be used since it can upregulate PgR.

Therefore,

Acts as an estrogen: Use Nolva (or some anti-e).

Acts as a progestin: Use Bromo, Cabergoline, Selegiline, B6, etc....

Any benefit tousing an AI then?

Would Clomid be a better choice throughout a cycle sense it acts as a weak estrogen and will compete for ER? Also, since it hasn't given signs that it will increase PgR?

I'm thinking Clomid throughout cycle to combat E, and then add in something like Bromo, Cabergoline, or Selegiline in conjunction with B6 to cover progestin sides?

Obviously, Winny could be in there as well if it too.

BMJ