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SERMS.
All the time see people asking for help on their cycles and PCT and what to include in their plans, a lot of the time I will see the mention of Serm and that its best used in the PCT/post cycle therapy period. But do any of you ever ask how or why you’ve included them?
In this thread I will cover the most mentioned and popular Serms that I see being taken and recommended and try to explain what they are how they act and their side effects. Yes they have sides and can alter a whole host of things in your body; I will also try to explain things simply and keep on point and allow the user to decide whether they actually need to use them!
What are serms ?
SERM-Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (read each word remember what they mean)
I will cover the two most popular serms, these being NOLVA and CLOMID. Nolva was/still used on cycle to prevent gyno, and reduce water retention (not as effective as AI). They may also and are more commonly used in PCT to increase test levels back to normal
Nolva.
Nolvadex is the brand name for Tamoxifen it is considered an antagonist of the estrogen receptor, which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. Please note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow/increase with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard compound for the treatment of early occurring breast cancer patients. The role of an estrogen is to bind, as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor.
Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound.
A similar compound to Nolva is Clomiphene citrate = Clomid. These drugs are used in anti-estrogen therapy. Baring this in mind it’s worth noting these drugs have a few purposes/goals.
The first purpose is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increases the circulating level of estrogens when taken, as they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen will occur in men that are taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. Dianabol, Anadrol or testosterone, a reduction in water retention can be achieved by the addition of a serm (Ai is better). This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscles and body.
Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome, as the temporary increase in water within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the cycle. Once cycle is completed the extra water will disappear, and may lead to a loss in weight. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gyno, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, but I don’t recommend it use, and an Ai is far more effective and safe.
It is now well known that when taking nolvadex, serum level estrogen rises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle, during PCT, or after PCT to prevent estrogen rebound. Studies have shown that its use can cause a rise in LH and Test production, but at what cost to your bodies?
A lot of Serm users are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects and can prove fatal in the longer run, whilst also preventing the user from a more successful and better PCT.
It’s ok to use them, if you must/have to, but use as little as you can, and use support supplements as well.
Clomiphene (Clomid)
Clomid consists of two stereo-isomers which possess radically different effects in your body. Zuclomiphene has predominantly estrogenic effects and slow clearance on your system.
While the enclomiphene isomer, has predominately anti-estrogenic effects and quick clearance of your system. This creates divergent effects between estrogen blockage and estrogen stimulation and causes an acute imbalance once Clomid administration is discontinued (usually after PCT).
Users will often complain of estrogenic rebound after stopping Clomid, which could be attributed to the lingering estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene as the anti-estrogenic enclomiphene has long cleared the system.
For most purposes, tamoxifen is a superior SERM, simply for the fact that tamoxifen provides a purely anti-estrogenic isomer, whereas Clomid provides a mix of anti and pro estrogenic effects.
In regards to the health consequences listed, it can be assumed that Clomid will share similar detrimental effects as tamoxifen. As they share the same triphenylethylene backbone and carcinogenic (cancer causing) tendencies.
One of the main reasons why people make use of Clomid is for the purpose of recovering their bodies after a steroid cycle (PCT). Clomid has the potential to stimulate the production of hypothalamus which in turn would release a particular kind of hormone called gonadotrophic hormones. This hormone has the natural ability to allow the human testicles to secrete testosterone, which in turn will bring the depleting levels of testosterone in the body back to its normal/natural level. When this is achieved, the human body would stop losing its muscle mass.
Side effects and risks of Nolva and Clomid
Clomid/nolva have been known to cause severe mood swings in users and it has been noticed that most who have been using Clomid/nolva have suffered from such side effects on a regular basis. Many users have complained that the use of Clomid was the worst side effect that they have suffered from so far. Mood swings may include a change in the usual behaviour, tearful behaviour, excessive depression, anxiety and users may be extremely sensitive in nature.
SERMS and Liver cancer.
Originally, tamoxifen was accepted as being non-toxic to the human liver upon finding that tamoxifen did not cause noticeable liver damage (DNA adducts) during short-term test tube studies with human liver cells.
However, it became apparent that test tube research was largely flawed due to the low rate of metabolism in such a superficial environment. It was soon discovered that the hepa-toxic effects from tamoxifen, originates from the metabolism and build-up of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites. The results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in tamoxifen patients.
More recent human research has reported tamoxifen treated women to have 3x the risk of developing fatty liver disease, which occurs as soon as 3 months into therapy at only 20mg/day.
Although tamoxifen induced liver cancer may take years to manifest in a healthy male, its damaging effects could easily be exaggerated by other popular hepa-toxic drugs, such as 17aa oral steroids, and some of those PRO-Hormones everybody seems to like nowadays!!!
Other Side effects of Nolva (Tamoxifen) and clomid (Clomiphene citrate).
• Increased chance of blood clots
• Increased susceptibility to gyno in the future cycles.
• Development of cataracts in eyes
• Libido and erectile dysfunctional problems
• Lowering of IGF-1 levels
• They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hyper triglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis
• Nolva and clomid BOTH raise SHBG
Conclusions.
Nolvadex and clomid both up regulate the estrogen and progesterone receptors! Thus not only making them not the best for PCT, but possibly dangerous to use before, during and after a cycle period. Nolvadex and clomid may impair muscle growth, reduce the plasma level of IGF-1, lower FSH, and even impair recovery.
To put it simply they lower the amount of Free Thyroid Level in the blood much like high levels of estrogen also do. They raise the level of Thyroid Binding Globulin (TBG).
TBG binds to free testosterone in the blood thus rendering your T3 and T-4 Useless. It’s Important to understand that the thyroid is your fat burning gland. Without its proper function your body can not burn, store, or process calories, fats, and even protein. Nolva and clomid are also shown to increase Prolactin levels through changes in the hormonal levels in your body. Under no circumstances should Nolva be used with compounds such as Deca/Tren/ etc.
Again in laymen’s terms, Nolvadex blocks the actions of HCG, as well as inhibiting some positive cAMP mechanism on your testosterone and release of LH. This suggests that it may lower the positive Gnrh mechanism for producing testosterone.
Neither Nolvadex nor clomid blocks the shutdown of LH or FSH that is produced by the introduction of an outside source of hormones into the body (AAS etc), so will not prevent testicular atrophy or shut down on cycle.
IMO: I would completely avoid NOLVA at all costs and see no use for it at all with all the newer and more modern supplements that are around. Clomid may pos be of some merit and a lot of guys like to run it, I do feel however that it may not be necessary if users prevent testicular atrophy when on cycle, make use of a good Ai and have a successful pct protocol and supports planned out and ready to go.
Clomid may cause unbalanced hormonal levels and bring along the unwanted the side effects associated with it. It may also hinder your ability to recover and may affect your ability to keep gains as well as being detrimental to your health.
When you are personally planning your cycle decide what you are going to use, check all bases and ensure you have detailed and clear plan in-front of you. I would personally try a cycle with both the use of Clomid in PCT and without, whilst getting blood work done to compare your results, this should help you to decide, if you are unsure about dropping the serm from your PCT.
Thanks for reading I understand this will be a personal choice for users, but with the scientific evidence and reasoning mentioned/referenced, I see no reason to include a serm and don’t fancy any of the aforementioned side effects from their usage. Surely if we can cycle and recover safely, with the use of fewer harsh chemicals and compounds, then that’s the way to go.....
I will soon be logging my test cycle without the use of a serm so wel see how it goes!!!
If anybody wishes to add to the thread please do hopefully we can create an informative and valuable thread for this board
Any Questions on supplements or cycle help, please ask and i will do my best to help you!
Thanks a lot Nick....
For references on info, scientific reports and studies and also opinions on PCT with serms, please feel free to follow the links and search about for anything you see relevant. There are links everywhere so take your time and find what’s most applicable to you.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...-a-642856.html
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...le-778853.html
All the time see people asking for help on their cycles and PCT and what to include in their plans, a lot of the time I will see the mention of Serm and that its best used in the PCT/post cycle therapy period. But do any of you ever ask how or why you’ve included them?
In this thread I will cover the most mentioned and popular Serms that I see being taken and recommended and try to explain what they are how they act and their side effects. Yes they have sides and can alter a whole host of things in your body; I will also try to explain things simply and keep on point and allow the user to decide whether they actually need to use them!
What are serms ?
SERM-Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (read each word remember what they mean)
I will cover the two most popular serms, these being NOLVA and CLOMID. Nolva was/still used on cycle to prevent gyno, and reduce water retention (not as effective as AI). They may also and are more commonly used in PCT to increase test levels back to normal
Nolva.
Nolvadex is the brand name for Tamoxifen it is considered an antagonist of the estrogen receptor, which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. Please note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow/increase with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard compound for the treatment of early occurring breast cancer patients. The role of an estrogen is to bind, as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor.
Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound.
A similar compound to Nolva is Clomiphene citrate = Clomid. These drugs are used in anti-estrogen therapy. Baring this in mind it’s worth noting these drugs have a few purposes/goals.
The first purpose is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increases the circulating level of estrogens when taken, as they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen will occur in men that are taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. Dianabol, Anadrol or testosterone, a reduction in water retention can be achieved by the addition of a serm (Ai is better). This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscles and body.
Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome, as the temporary increase in water within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the cycle. Once cycle is completed the extra water will disappear, and may lead to a loss in weight. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gyno, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, but I don’t recommend it use, and an Ai is far more effective and safe.
It is now well known that when taking nolvadex, serum level estrogen rises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle, during PCT, or after PCT to prevent estrogen rebound. Studies have shown that its use can cause a rise in LH and Test production, but at what cost to your bodies?
A lot of Serm users are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects and can prove fatal in the longer run, whilst also preventing the user from a more successful and better PCT.
It’s ok to use them, if you must/have to, but use as little as you can, and use support supplements as well.
Clomiphene (Clomid)
Clomid consists of two stereo-isomers which possess radically different effects in your body. Zuclomiphene has predominantly estrogenic effects and slow clearance on your system.
While the enclomiphene isomer, has predominately anti-estrogenic effects and quick clearance of your system. This creates divergent effects between estrogen blockage and estrogen stimulation and causes an acute imbalance once Clomid administration is discontinued (usually after PCT).
Users will often complain of estrogenic rebound after stopping Clomid, which could be attributed to the lingering estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene as the anti-estrogenic enclomiphene has long cleared the system.
For most purposes, tamoxifen is a superior SERM, simply for the fact that tamoxifen provides a purely anti-estrogenic isomer, whereas Clomid provides a mix of anti and pro estrogenic effects.
In regards to the health consequences listed, it can be assumed that Clomid will share similar detrimental effects as tamoxifen. As they share the same triphenylethylene backbone and carcinogenic (cancer causing) tendencies.
One of the main reasons why people make use of Clomid is for the purpose of recovering their bodies after a steroid cycle (PCT). Clomid has the potential to stimulate the production of hypothalamus which in turn would release a particular kind of hormone called gonadotrophic hormones. This hormone has the natural ability to allow the human testicles to secrete testosterone, which in turn will bring the depleting levels of testosterone in the body back to its normal/natural level. When this is achieved, the human body would stop losing its muscle mass.
Side effects and risks of Nolva and Clomid
Clomid/nolva have been known to cause severe mood swings in users and it has been noticed that most who have been using Clomid/nolva have suffered from such side effects on a regular basis. Many users have complained that the use of Clomid was the worst side effect that they have suffered from so far. Mood swings may include a change in the usual behaviour, tearful behaviour, excessive depression, anxiety and users may be extremely sensitive in nature.
SERMS and Liver cancer.
Originally, tamoxifen was accepted as being non-toxic to the human liver upon finding that tamoxifen did not cause noticeable liver damage (DNA adducts) during short-term test tube studies with human liver cells.
However, it became apparent that test tube research was largely flawed due to the low rate of metabolism in such a superficial environment. It was soon discovered that the hepa-toxic effects from tamoxifen, originates from the metabolism and build-up of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites. The results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in tamoxifen patients.
More recent human research has reported tamoxifen treated women to have 3x the risk of developing fatty liver disease, which occurs as soon as 3 months into therapy at only 20mg/day.
Although tamoxifen induced liver cancer may take years to manifest in a healthy male, its damaging effects could easily be exaggerated by other popular hepa-toxic drugs, such as 17aa oral steroids, and some of those PRO-Hormones everybody seems to like nowadays!!!
Other Side effects of Nolva (Tamoxifen) and clomid (Clomiphene citrate).
• Increased chance of blood clots
• Increased susceptibility to gyno in the future cycles.
• Development of cataracts in eyes
• Libido and erectile dysfunctional problems
• Lowering of IGF-1 levels
• They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hyper triglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis
• Nolva and clomid BOTH raise SHBG
Conclusions.
Nolvadex and clomid both up regulate the estrogen and progesterone receptors! Thus not only making them not the best for PCT, but possibly dangerous to use before, during and after a cycle period. Nolvadex and clomid may impair muscle growth, reduce the plasma level of IGF-1, lower FSH, and even impair recovery.
To put it simply they lower the amount of Free Thyroid Level in the blood much like high levels of estrogen also do. They raise the level of Thyroid Binding Globulin (TBG).
TBG binds to free testosterone in the blood thus rendering your T3 and T-4 Useless. It’s Important to understand that the thyroid is your fat burning gland. Without its proper function your body can not burn, store, or process calories, fats, and even protein. Nolva and clomid are also shown to increase Prolactin levels through changes in the hormonal levels in your body. Under no circumstances should Nolva be used with compounds such as Deca/Tren/ etc.
Again in laymen’s terms, Nolvadex blocks the actions of HCG, as well as inhibiting some positive cAMP mechanism on your testosterone and release of LH. This suggests that it may lower the positive Gnrh mechanism for producing testosterone.
Neither Nolvadex nor clomid blocks the shutdown of LH or FSH that is produced by the introduction of an outside source of hormones into the body (AAS etc), so will not prevent testicular atrophy or shut down on cycle.
IMO: I would completely avoid NOLVA at all costs and see no use for it at all with all the newer and more modern supplements that are around. Clomid may pos be of some merit and a lot of guys like to run it, I do feel however that it may not be necessary if users prevent testicular atrophy when on cycle, make use of a good Ai and have a successful pct protocol and supports planned out and ready to go.
Clomid may cause unbalanced hormonal levels and bring along the unwanted the side effects associated with it. It may also hinder your ability to recover and may affect your ability to keep gains as well as being detrimental to your health.
When you are personally planning your cycle decide what you are going to use, check all bases and ensure you have detailed and clear plan in-front of you. I would personally try a cycle with both the use of Clomid in PCT and without, whilst getting blood work done to compare your results, this should help you to decide, if you are unsure about dropping the serm from your PCT.
Thanks for reading I understand this will be a personal choice for users, but with the scientific evidence and reasoning mentioned/referenced, I see no reason to include a serm and don’t fancy any of the aforementioned side effects from their usage. Surely if we can cycle and recover safely, with the use of fewer harsh chemicals and compounds, then that’s the way to go.....
I will soon be logging my test cycle without the use of a serm so wel see how it goes!!!
If anybody wishes to add to the thread please do hopefully we can create an informative and valuable thread for this board
Any Questions on supplements or cycle help, please ask and i will do my best to help you!
Thanks a lot Nick....
For references on info, scientific reports and studies and also opinions on PCT with serms, please feel free to follow the links and search about for anything you see relevant. There are links everywhere so take your time and find what’s most applicable to you.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...-a-642856.html
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/an...le-778853.html
