Question for Macrophage69Alpha

[BackDoc]

I wanted to ask your advice pertaining to someone who really needs help.

Female, 33 years old, obese (300 lbs). No history of heart problems save for obvious stress on heart (is on high blood pressure medication), however, issues with thyroid are a potential (she is on thyroid meds). Cannot exercise much due to weight restriction (nearly out of breath when walking up ONE flight of stairs). She is very depressed, as she should be, but feels at the end of her rope. Says she would like to eat right, but needs some inspiration/motivation to do so (i.e., feels like if she sees a drop in weight then would be motivated to lose more weight by eating right). This is a very tough case for me to work on, as you can see the complexity and irony of this situation. Usually with diet modification, exercise recommendation, and supplement suggestions I can help most people lose at least some weight. She seems to be wanting a pill to do the trick, and this is where I am at a loss, since I don't feel it's the solution, but if it can get her started then kudos. However, this is one tough nut to crack and I need another expert's advice.

If she can see at least a minor loss in weight, then I suspect she might start to get motivated to lose more by eating right and incorporating some exercise into the plan. I have recommended E/C stack twice per day, morning and noon. I am also recommending a supplement for appetite control. I have considered having her purchase a large amount of CLA caps for long term use. Any advice you would suggest?

Normally, as I've said before, helping people lose weight is not difficult for me to do, but this is the toughest case I've ever had to work with. I doubt I've given her case due justice in just a few paragraphs.

Any help or suggestions you can give regarding a supplement to get her started would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

stimulants are not advisable.. especially at that bodyweight with BP issues. this problem be be psychological as well (even people that "appear" happy can be "depressed").. the first step would be to get her to go to a doctor and SSRI would probably be very helpful in this case(and would help with the over eating).. inositol (at higher dosages will probably help with depression but may not be as effective on eating).. both together are quite effective.

there is one other "supplement" to think about... some consider it more/too drastic.. but it was most widely prescribed in cases very similar to this. 2,4 dnp.. which has the advantage that results can be seen without exercise.. as her weight drops to a more manageable level, exercise could be increased.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

the CLA.. no
the appetite suppresant.. take care as her wieght and age are relatively high risk factors among some anorectics(norephedrine and PPA are not advisable)

 

[BackDoc]

Thank you for the quick reply.

Her depression could be the result of other life factors and that's sharp that you pointed that out. I partially may be responsible for a little of the urgency of her situation due to a conversation recently. She asked if she ever lost the weight if the skin would stretch back. I told her that it may not, but that if she waited much longer it might require cosmetic surgical correction.

Interestingly, the appetite suppressant I was thinking of was either CCK or an SSRI such as 5-HTP. The 5-HTP might help with the depression possibly. I don't have any direct experience with either, quite frankly. What do you think about the 5-HTP?

I am hesitant to recommend ephedra-based products, especially in the case of increased weight and elevated bp. I think my rationale for EC was to give her an initial start toward fat loss. However, if it ever worked I'm sure I'd never be able to wean her off of it. She told me she has already tried an ECA analog but not for very long (discouraged when the weight didn't disappear immediately). She also told me that she tried something that sounds very similar to the Schmitz-Kneller stack, but I'm not sure. I'll clarify when I next see her.

I wish the DNP were an option for me to recommend. Along that line of thought, would you recommend herbal usnic acid by itself?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

5-htp is effective for some(but it is not an ssri-- it is a serotonin pre-cursor).. but its effects tend to dissipate quickly.. inositol is great for depression... but she should go to the doctor and get a prescription for an SSRI.


DNP is ALWAYS an option.. not one to reccomend but one can always make her aware of its existence.. in a purely theoretical sense... then perhaps direct her to the boards where she can learn and make a decision for herself.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Not a fan of USNIC, but if one could find a decent extract it may be an option (though its effectiveness and safety are not as well understood as 2,4 dinitrophenol)

 

[macrophage69alpha]

 

[BackDoc]

'll pass along the info to her. I'd read numerous times that the 5-HTP might help in some cases of evidenced need of SSRI's, but I was unaware that it dissipates so rapidly.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

while not a fan of usnic others are.. so you may not want to discount it completely.. it is an uncoupler.. but from a health as opposed to legal standpoint DNP is both proven and"safe".(it parameters are well known as well as its method of action)

 

[BackDoc]

I like the idea of an SSRI. Something is telling me that this has a great deal to do with brain chemistry. Certainly Meridia would be a choice to consider for her. Her medical doctor and I have spoken about her situation and agreed that something needs to be done quickly as her health situation is getting much worse. He deferred to my judgement using natural means first. My gut feeling is that the pharmaceuticals will be the key. In that case, if she's not seeing at least initial results in one month to go ahead and refer her back to him for stronger meds. It's ironic that her MD is wanting to exhaust natural means first and I'm wanting to move on to the prescriptions.

Same as you, I'm very hesitant to try an ECA or the NYC stack. As much as I liked it, I think the PPA would have worked rather well. However, she's so high risk that it almost needs to be a lightweight supplement. Tough situation.

I found a source for usnic acid tablets and will consider it for recommendation. However, like you've said, the sides may prohibit its use with her.

Sadly, I think I may have to start her out with something like the following:

green tea
Kombucha tea
pantothenic acid
7-keto DHEA
Saint-John's-wort, or 5-HTP

Can you think of any reason the above combo would be bad mojo?

I appreciate your help in this matter tremendously. I certainly hope it is not offensive to you that I haven't really considered the DNP suggestion. That is merely a matter of my limitation.

Thanks again for your help and if you think of anything I'd be much obliged to hear it.