Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
preventing fina gyno??
- Thread starter jubei
- Start date
Greek Freak
New member
75 mg EOD is a conservative dose and you shouldnt have to worry about side effects like gyno unless your prone to it. Bromocriptine is the best for preventing progestin gyno from what I've heart but there are other things out there.
I was planning on using the following and all I have for gyno is nolvadex
week 1-4 25 mg dbol per day
week 1-9 500 mg sust 250/week
week 5-10 75 mg omega tren eod
week 10-12 350 mg test prop/week
Am I gonna be taking a big chance with fina gyno with this? What compounds are available. The nolvadex should be effective for the test/d-bol gyno right??
week 1-4 25 mg dbol per day
week 1-9 500 mg sust 250/week
week 5-10 75 mg omega tren eod
week 10-12 350 mg test prop/week
Am I gonna be taking a big chance with fina gyno with this? What compounds are available. The nolvadex should be effective for the test/d-bol gyno right??
D
DaddyX
Guest
vitex may help and its otc,other than that there r things like bromo. with 75mgs eod i wouldnt worry tho. i did 150mgs eod and had no signs at all,like said tho u could be sensitive to progesterone gyno but only u would no that. i would say dont worry about it and for your test/dbol u r running a chance of getting gyno symptoms since u r running test along with the dbol. i for sure would get some ldex to be careful atleast for the first 4 weeks when u r running them at the same time. dbol gave me gyno symptoms while still using nolvs. goodluck
Will taking test and d-bol cause progesterone gyno to flare up when mixed with fina, or do I simply treat the two seperately. So if I control the "normal gyno" with liquidex and nolvadex, it won't have any influence on me getting fina gyno? Man this is some complicated shit.
bbkingpin
New member
jubei said:
I don't think anyone has the knowledge to answer you. It is all speculation on the part of most. There is some authoritative info by W_Llewellyn that prog-gyno is a myth because it still needs estrogen to develop gyno. I read in a medical journal that the progesterone-receptor in an "estrogen induced protein" which would lend support to the theory that w/o estrogen's influence, you wont get gyno from progesterone. I just wish someone would do a poll: "Who has NO problems with gyno when on Nolvadex AND Testosterone but has problems with gyno on Nolvadex AND Deca/Fina?" In other words, has anyone gotten "progesterone gyno" while taking an anti-estrogen -- namely, Nolvadex? If the answer is yes, then there is prog-gyno that develops independently of estrogen's influence. The only problem is that all kinds of people will chime in when the only people who can speak authoriatively are the ones who can answer, FROM EXPERIENCE, "Who has NO problems with gyno when on Nolvadex AND Testosterone but has problems with gyno on Nolvadex AND Deca/Fina?"
The_Eviscerator
New member
BBkingpin said:
I agree. I always use Nolvadex at the end of a cycle and I always use Arimidex or Letrozole during a cycle. No matter what I am using. Never had gyno and I use tren and deca frequently. While Tren and Deca create more progesterone... the true culprit (I believe) is estrogen. Don't ask me for a study... I don't have one to whip out. I prefer real world experience over some guy in a labcoat observing some rats.
bbkingpin
New member
jubei said:
I would, especially since you are starting Fina AFTER d-bol is done. So you will be running d-bol and sust follwed by fina and sust. D-bol and sust is probably a good gyno risk without the anti-aromatase and/or nolva. If you have both I wouldn't worry about gyno. Nor from sust and fina 75mg/eod. I have done fina with Nolva with no sides. I also have done as high as 600mg/wk Deca with 400mg/wk EQ and intermittent shots of test suspension WITH NOLVA and no gyno symptoms whatsoever. At the tail end of Fina and Nolva I added T-400 @600mg/week and had no gyno symptoms. But I was taking Nolva all the while. I don't wait for symptoms before taking Nolva. But that may be a better way to go. But I'd rather take it throughout. I've had gyno before and don't want it ever again. I don't care if Nolva hinders gains. This isn't empirically proven. On the Deca/EQ cycle with Nolva, I attained very measurable and satisfactory gains.
gunner44
New member
I think we should all consider that possibility that "gyno" from progesterone could simply be the progestin (tren) acting on the mamery tissue that some people have more or less of than others.
What i have experienced from tren was soreness somewhat like a pregnant woman gets when lactating. I had no formation of any new tissue, but the very small "structures" directly behind my nipple got very hard and SORE ! After 6-8 weeks, the lumps returned to their normal state prior to AAS use. I was also lactating a little.
If you already got breast tissue , tren can "activate it" casuing milk production,swelling,and pain. Thats what progestins are supposed to do, indudce lactation in the titties.
If you let estrogen get out of control at the same time you have progestins in your body , then the new titties will be fully operational from the start, and will grow faster and probably caus e even more discomfort.
In summary, you better control estrogen in a serious way if you are using tren for the first time.
I would recommend a short Tren only cycle. Better safe than sorry.
What i have experienced from tren was soreness somewhat like a pregnant woman gets when lactating. I had no formation of any new tissue, but the very small "structures" directly behind my nipple got very hard and SORE ! After 6-8 weeks, the lumps returned to their normal state prior to AAS use. I was also lactating a little.
If you already got breast tissue , tren can "activate it" casuing milk production,swelling,and pain. Thats what progestins are supposed to do, indudce lactation in the titties.
If you let estrogen get out of control at the same time you have progestins in your body , then the new titties will be fully operational from the start, and will grow faster and probably caus e even more discomfort.
In summary, you better control estrogen in a serious way if you are using tren for the first time.
I would recommend a short Tren only cycle. Better safe than sorry.
BBkingpin said:
All I can say is that my first cycle: 250mg test, 250mg deca, 40mg dbol ED with liquidex went fine. Second cycle, 500mg test, 75mg fina ED with liquidex, and I developed "gyno". Mr. Llewellyn is a heck of a lot brighter than me in these areas but all I know is now I have puffy nipples that are constantly sore and have a lump.
bbkingpin
New member
daemon said:
1. L-dex does not prevent aromatization 100% -- I've read studies of like 55% less aromatization. So, 500 mg of Sust w/ L-dex is like 225 mg of sust without any Nolva or L-dex, as far as aromatization is concerned. (I.e., 45% (100-55) less aromatization of 500 mg = 225 mg (or .45x 500mg=225mg) of aromatization.)
2. Nolvadex binds at the breast tissue to block estro from binding and developing gyno.
Therefore, Nolvadex is probably preferable to L-dex if you had to choose between the two. Both is ideal -- less estro to compete with Nolva and probably less water retention..
gunner44
New member
BBkingpin said:
About time someone pointed out that Arimidex is not 100% effective like everyone wants to think.
When on cycle, I always "STACK MY FUCKING ANTI-E's PEOPLE!!
Proviron
Nolvadex
Liquidex
Use all three and you will be safe, until you mess with Tren.
If you are worried about hurting your results , then go ahead and sprout a pair, its your choice.
biggerdave
New member
I understand what your saying bro but i dont think it would be very true, after all if you using nolva with your test and tren there will still be loads of estrogen inthe system to work with the prog. Maybe if you was using anti aromatase's it might work.BBkingpin said:
My experience is lending me to believe that estrogen is needed to cause gyno with progesterone, the first time i tried tren i got gyno on 75mged, i was also using test and .5 of ldex, however this time im using 100ed of nandralone phenylprop with test and dbol but also using aromasin and no sign of gyno at all.
bbkingpin
New member
biggerdave said:
Well,the idea is that the breast tissue has both progesterone receptors (PR) and estrogen receptors(ER). If, according to the medical journal I was reading, the PR is an "estrogen induced protein" then by blocking the estrogen from binding to the breast tissue, the PR is not activated. (I.e., the Nolva binds to the ER in the breast tissue so that estrogen cannot.) Your experience of gyno with test, tren, and L-dex lends support to the notion I referred to because you were NOT taking Nolva with your cycle. That's why I said the only people who can help the debate are those who can answer: "Who has NO problems with gyno when on Nolvadex AND Testosterone but has problems with gyno on Nolvadex AND Deca/Fina?" You have to try Nolvadex and see if you get gyno. If you get gyno taking Nolva with Deca/Tren but not Nolva with Test, then prog gyno is possible independent of Nolva's inluence in breast tissue. That is the whole question involved in this thread: what to do if gyno develops from fina.
I can take test and Nolva and no gyno. Why would I rely solely on L-dex? I can take Nolva and Deca or Tren and no gyno. That is my personal experience. And the times I developed gyno was a couple of times years ago when I had no Nolva. And deca alone Never caused it. Methyl-test caused it; androstendione caused it. Anadrol might have aggravated it but not really like Methyl-test, andro, and, believe it or not, high doses of ginseng for a few weeks. I later read that ginseng is very close in structure to estrogen. Nolvadex, taken even after the "small" (relatively speaking -- any amount of gyno is too much) mass had developed, worked to reduce the mass to normal or almost normal size.
biggerdave
New member
well i didnt realise you were going to be that finicky but as you are you may as well know i was using nolva and bromo on that tren test cycle so i am not a good example of your theory.
What i want to know is, if prog needs estr to cause gyno surely that means they both have some affinity for each others receptors? can any one confirm or deny this?
What i want to know is, if prog needs estr to cause gyno surely that means they both have some affinity for each others receptors? can any one confirm or deny this?
jubei said:
I believe no. I don't have any medical studies to back me up but for me, as soon as I noticed it, it was too late.
To those who mentioned I should have been using Nolva for the progesterone, abosolutely. Unfortunately I didn't understand at the time that liquidex didn't take care of that. My bad for not researching it enough.
Similar threads
