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Please Evaluate my cycle...1st one

M

MordecaiPSI

New member
I knwo you all must get this all the time but here is what i have compiled together over teh past few months.

Org Decca: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Org Sust250: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Dbol: 30mg first 2 weeks.

Doing Clomid with 150 mg/day for 2 weeks, then 100 mg/day for 2 more weeks.


Height: 5"7
Weight: 170lbs
BF: around 12%
Chest: 42 inches
Waist: 32 inches
Age: 19

Lifting natural and consistently for about 3 years. Middle of cutting so i can bulk when i do this cycle and now worrry about too much fat accumilation. If you are going to coment on my age i appreciate your concern but i am goign through with this. Have researched it a while and i am commited.

Now what i want to knwo is should I add Winstrol to the end of the cycle? Maybe weeks 7-12? Would this helpl with the Decca in any way?

If i did add Winstrol when would i start my post cycle? 2 weeks after my last decca/sust injection or 2 weeks after the Winny?

Thanks all, great forum.
 
I don't know how many takers you're going to get on this one, but I'm guessing that they will all be consistent...first off, i would wait until your in your early twenties, secondly, there's no need for that much gear first time around, let's not forget about the other two essentials here: training and diet...hope this helps..
 
yep, know you don't want to hear it, but one day you'll learn to heed the advise of people that are older and wiser. Basically, learn from other peoples mistakes. You are 19 dude and 5'7" 170lbs ain't a small foundation to build on. When I was your age I was 5'8" 130lbs!!! I'm about 175lbs now and I did my first cycle when I was 32.
good luck to you bro.
p.s. your cycle has too many substances in it and at too high of a dosage for a 1st timer, just my 2 cents
 
Sounds like a very nice cycle, watch out with too many androgens, easy fo get those unwanted side effects, Y dont you stick with only one compound.

testosterone.....................................................................

For 8 weeks or so, but i doubt you need it now your testosterone (natural) levels are at their highest, so you shouldnt have much problems putting on size naturally just by eating a whole lot, lifting very heavy and getting lotsa rest.

My 2 ml's
 
too much --- cut the test in half 250mg/w -- cut the deca down to 200mg/w for 10 weeks .....thats a good first time cycle.....eating, resting, training are more important.
 
At 170 and 12% bodyfat I'm wondering how much lean mass you've put on in the three years you have been lifting.

How are your gains going now? Are you gaining consistantly?


I will spare you the your too young speech for now, but I'd need you to answer these questions in order to give you an opinion.
 
REVISED CYCLE by THE EVISCERATOR

Org Decca: 400mg/wk 8 weeks

Org Sust250: 250mg/wk 8 weeks

Dbol: 30mg first 2 weeks.
Winstrol: 50mg a day Weeks 7-10

Start Clomid and Nolvadex immediately after cessation of Winny. 150 mg/day for 7 days weeks, then 100 mg/day for 3 more weeks. Nolvadex 20mg a day for 3 weeks.
Click to expand...

8 Weeks is more than ebough time to grow and since you are 170 at 12% that means you have 149.8 lbs of lean mass. These dosages are more than enough to make you grow. When lean mass increases more gear will be needed.
 
Re: Re: Please Evaluate my cycle...1st one

The_Eviscerator said:


8 Weeks is more than ebough time to grow and since you are 170 at 12% that means you have 149.8 lbs of lean mass.
Click to expand...

That 149 lbs would include his skeletal system actually.
 
Re: Re: Re: Please Evaluate my cycle...1st one

Dial_tone said:


That 149 lbs would include his skeletal system actually.
Click to expand...

True... so now the kid is down to 120 lean pounds muscle... or maybe less... I was only using the BF% as a rough guide.
 
My diet is pretty good. Its hard to get good lean protein with the campus diner food. A lot of fatts fried foods. I try to stick to about 5-8 hard boiled eggs a day, turkey sandwiches, beef "casseroles" they got and whatever good meat they serve.

I know 170lbs aint much of a foundation. Im still tryin to gain now, but gain clean.....which i have stated is pretty damn hard with what i got. Thats why i plan to do the cycle during summer break when i can cook for myself.


Seems like you guys recomend me cutting down my dosage in half. I want my 1st cycle to be the best, no slack anywhere. I want to get the most i can out of it. Will these minimized dosage yeild me optimal results?
 
MordecaiPSI said:
My diet is pretty good. Its hard to get good lean protein with the campus diner food. A lot of fatts fried foods. I try to stick to about 5-8 hard boiled eggs a day, turkey sandwiches, beef "casseroles" they got and whatever good meat they serve.

I know 170lbs aint much of a foundation. Im still tryin to gain now, but gain clean.....which i have stated is pretty damn hard with what i got. Thats why i plan to do the cycle during summer break when i can cook for myself.


Seems like you guys recomend me cutting down my dosage in half. I want my 1st cycle to be the best, no slack anywhere. I want to get the most i can out of it. Will these minimized dosage yeild me optimal results?
Click to expand...

You have no idea how your body will react. I know that for myself... 500mg of Sus + D-bol gave me more acne and bloat than I would wish on my worst enemy. It is better to err on the side of caution when constructing your first cycle. See how your body reacts and then assess things for your next cycle.

The first cycle is not magical, so don't believe that bullshit about getting the most out of your first cycle.
 
You're right, i dont knwo how it wil react. But how low is too low where i will just waste it? I want to gain at least 20lbs of lean muscle bro.
 
Mordecai, keep it simple Gear wise and concentrate on your diet & recuperation. This will be what makes or breaks a cycle. Use Sustanon@500mgs/wk for 8-10 weeks since you have it already. This will be more than enough without going overboard with the doses. :)
 
sorry mord, you ain't gaining 20lbs of muscle this cycle. No way Jose! You'll gain 20lbs of muscle/fat/water and consider yourself successful if you can keep 10lbs of muscle.

as for the doses. I did 500/wk sust w/dbol at 25mg dbol for my first cycle and that was more than enough.
I say stick with what machivelli suggested.
 
**How much lean mass have you gained in the last 3 years?

**How are consistant are your gains righ now?



Please answer and I'll give you an opinion.
 
Ive gained about 10lbs lean mass in the last 3 years where i had been lifting consistently. Before i was more of a power lifter but now it's more for asthetics. I had realized a year ago how crucial diet is to body building and has been my main goal since.

Lately my gains are normal for a natural lifter. Ive been hovering aroudn 170 for past 3 weeks actually. Been trying to bulk but as lean as i can. Meaning low fat sources of protein such as chicken breast, egg whites, and good grade meat. But ligth ive said, its been hard since i started the semester eating from the campus diner. I gain a lot easier and leaner when im home preparing my own meals.

Thanks for the help thus far guys.
 
too young, and too much gear man.

i am on my first cycle of Deca 300mg/week & winnie 40mg ED, and 8 weeks in I am up 30 lbs....not a lot of gear at all.

I'd say wait till you are at least 21, and put on 20 more lbs naturally.

but, if you have to.....

cut the amount of gear in half and just run test.
 
30lbs on Decca Winny?!! Wow. Is this a bulking cycle? Do you find that winny counteracts teh sides of decca such as decca dick pretty well?

I am considering cutting back the gear, but trying to decide by how much.
 
I'm gonna go with the flow..too young..but no lectures. If you are determined to use gear, it wont matter if we tell you that you are too young. So at least do it right. Se how your body will react on 1 chemical 2 at most

I would go with Sust 250 E5D for 8 weeks. I would front load the first week week with 500...meaning that you will need 12 amps of Sust. that averages around 350 mg's per week in the last 7 seven weeks.
If you want quick, throw in D-bol @ 20 mg per day in first 3 1/2 weeks (100 tabs@ 5mg each)
If you eat right and train hard...you'll get close to 20 pound out of it but I doubt you will keep it all.

You also need to consider Nolva for possible Gyno...If you don't want bloat then some L-dex also.
It's also a debatable issue on this board but I would consider an herbal PCT.
 
MordecaiPSI said:
I knwo you all must get this all the time but here is what i have compiled together over teh past few months.

Org Decca: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Org Sust250: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Dbol: 30mg first 2 weeks.

Doing Clomid with 150 mg/day for 2 weeks, then 100 mg/day for 2 more weeks.


Height: 5"7
Weight: 170lbs
BF: around 12%
Chest: 42 inches
Waist: 32 inches
Age: 19

Lifting natural and consistently for about 3 years. Middle of cutting so i can bulk when i do this cycle and now worrry about too much fat accumilation. If you are going to coment on my age i appreciate your concern but i am goign through with this. Have researched it a while and i am commited.

Now what i want to knwo is should I add Winstrol to the end of the cycle? Maybe weeks 7-12? Would this helpl with the Decca in any way?

If i did add Winstrol when would i start my post cycle? 2 weeks after my last decca/sust injection or 2 weeks after the Winny?

Thanks all, great forum.
Click to expand...

1- you're too young

2- even if you were 25 and 8% BF, this is just too much stuff for a first cycle

3- the post-cycle therapy is just too much as well.


For a first cycle I'd never take more than two products (maximum of 500mg/week) and no more than 8 weeks.
 
MordecaiPSI said:
30lbs on Decca Winny?!! Wow. Is this a bulking cycle? Do you find that winny counteracts teh sides of decca such as decca dick pretty well?

I am considering cutting back the gear, but trying to decide by how much.
Click to expand...

yep...bulking.....

i have had no problems with my dick at all....nor any gyno.

the key to all the weight gain has been diet. if you're not eating, you ain't gonna grow my friend.
 
MordecaiPSI said:
Lately my gains are normal for a natural lifter.
Click to expand...
And what are these "normal" gains for a natural lifter you have been making?

How much have you gained in the last year, the last 6 months, and the last 3 months?
 
Ive stopped growing since my soph year of HS. Im pretty sure im not growin much more.

I think im going to start off with Sust 250mg/week and decca 200 mg/wk for 10 weeks with Dbol 20 mg for weeks 1-3.


I will increase during the cycle if i think i need more. Will that amoutn of decca be enough? Ive read that if one does decca they should do at least 300mg.
 
MordecaiPSI said:
Ive stopped growing since my soph year of HS. Im pretty sure im not growin much more.
Click to expand...
I'm asking about muscle gains as adaptation to your training. How much muscle have you put on through your training in the last 6 months?
 
If you are being honest and these gains are consistent you may be in a better position to take advantage of gear than a big portion of user in their mid to late twenties.

I'm not going to make this post with out addressing the issue of your age. At 19 you very likely needn't worry about issues such as stunting your growth. You are probably "full grown" so to speak as far as your skeletal system is concerned.

However, you are likely still at the tail end of some very important hormonal development. By choosing to use steroids now you may run the increased risk of inhibiting the full development of your endocrine system, negatively affecting healthy body function (including muscle gain) later in life.



Regardless, it sounds likely that you will decide to use them. Some recommend very large doses for your first cycle using the logic that the first is always the best. I disagree. However, utilizing very low doses is equally ill advised due to the poor ratio of cost versus effect (giving your natural hormonal system a kick in the face versus a poor acceleration of muscle gains with too little gear).


I do not like the idea of stacking major drugs for a first cycle. This confounds the process of sorting out effects and side effects in regard to you individual body.

If you are going to do a cycle now, try 500 mg per week of testosterone (such as enanthate or omnadren) for 10 weeks. Take 25 mg of proviron per day to reduce the chance of estrogen related side effects (chances will probably be low anyway with 500 mg of test). The proviron will also aid the effects of testosterone.

Have enough nolvadex to take 10 mg per day for 10 weeks. This is for back-up reasons only. There will be no need to take the nolvadex unless you see major side effects like gyno symptoms. If you do see such symptoms, take 20 mg of nolva for a about 10 days and drop to 10 mg per day for the rest of the cycle given symptoms subside.


Trust me, if you run the cycle I have proposed (500 mg test/week, 25 mg proviron/day for 10 weeks) and continue to train and eat correctly, you will be satisfied with the results.
 
i don`t know what to say about your cycle bro.....i just have one question for you:
Do you want to look like beef cake????

Later though!!!!
 
MordecaiPSI said:
I knwo you all must get this all the time but here is what i have compiled together over teh past few months.

Org Decca: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Org Sust250: 500mg/wk 10 weeks

Dbol: 30mg first 2 weeks.

Doing Clomid with 150 mg/day for 2 weeks, then 100 mg/day for 2 more weeks.
Click to expand...

That iseems like a big first cycle, dont you think you should try something a little more mild to see how your body reacts to this first? Like others have said you are young, make sure you are done growing. It seems like you are going a little excessive especially with the deca. Maybe some more research would help.
 
Silent Method said:
................Trust me, if you run the cycle I have proposed (500 mg test/week, 25 mg proviron/day for 10 weeks) and continue to train and eat correctly, you will be satisfied with the results.
Click to expand...

good advice
 
Maybe i will think it over some more. I basically have everything ready to go....so hard to not jump the gun. Right now im planning for the summer, June '04 to be specific.

Why do you like Enth better than Sust? Just because it is longer acting?

I know i should wait untill i have a better foundation. Some suggest to wait untill im in my mid 20's. But understand that i want to maximize my potential as soon as i can. If cycling now will mean when im in my mid 20's i will have even better of a build then id liek to shoot for that. Basically i want to do it liek everyone else does, i don't want to wait. I knwo it may sound shallow or ignorant, but thats basically the core of why we all use gear. To get a leg up, to be bigger faster.
 
The guy is obviously going to juice, regardless of his age and our advice. That being said, lets try to advice a better course of action. I would cut the dbol all together and save it for a couple cycles down the road. Try something like this, since you already have the gear
Weeks 1-10 500 mg sust (1/2 cc eod to keep blood levels fairly stable)
Weeks 1-8 200 mg of deca

That should be more than enough to make maximum gains on your first cycle, plus by keeping the deca dose low, it will enhance the gains of your cycle, but will reduce compounding progestin related sides with estragenic side effects from using 500 mg of test for the first time. Also by cutting it out 2 weeks before the test, it might make recovery a bit easier. Just my 2 cc's.
 
MordecaiPSI said:
Why do you like Enth better than Sust? Just because it is longer acting?
Click to expand...
Actually sust/omnadren has longer acting compounds than enanthate. Both work well.

MordecaiPSI said:
I know i should wait untill i have a better foundation. Some suggest to wait untill im in my mid 20's. But understand that i want to maximize my potential as soon as i can.
Click to expand...
If you are gaining a solid pound of pure muscle per month consistently you are doing great. Your potential to build big mass is there NOW.


MordecaiPSI said:
If cycling now will mean when im in my mid 20's i will have even better of a build then id liek to shoot for that.
Click to expand...
Sure. But the problem is that cycling now might just inhibit your ability to progress in the future.

I'm not saying you must wait until you hit your "genetic limit" or "full natural potential" before you choose juice. For the most part I believe that that line of reasoning is crap.

What I am saying is that these chemicals DO HAVE POTENTIALY DAMAGING SIDE EFFECTS that might be exacerbated by your age. Furthermore, you happen to be doing VERY well on your own now.

MordecaiPSI said:
Basically i want to do it liek everyone else does, i don't want to wait. I knwo it may sound shallow or ignorant, but thats basically the core of why we all use gear. To get a leg up, to be bigger faster.
Click to expand...
True...except for the logic that everyone else hit it at your age.

Bro, I'm telling you, half the people you will run into on this board who are older and juice probably would have no chance of gaining a legit mass without their gear. Your doing it now. You DO have a leg up already.



If you are going to juice it's your choice. Just be aware of potential problems AND MAKE DAMN SURE YOU DO NOT LOSE TOUCH WITH THE PRINCIPLES THAT ARE PACKING THAT MASS ON YOU NOW!
 
A Good Plan by BodyByFinaplix
The guy is obviously going to juice, regardless of his age and our advice. That being said, lets try to advice a better course of action. I would cut the dbol all together and save it for a couple cycles down the road. Try something like this, since you already have the gear
Weeks 1-10 500 mg sust (if susceptible to acne reduce to 250mg) (1/2 cc eod to keep blood levels fairly stable)
Weeks 1-8 200 mg of deca (if susceptible to acne move to 400 mg)

That should be more than enough to make maximum gains on your first cycle, plus by keeping the deca dose low, it will enhance the gains of your cycle, but will reduce compounding progestin related sides with estragenic side effects from using 500 mg of test for the first time. Also by cutting it out 2 weeks before the test, it might make recovery a bit easier. Just my 2 cc's.
Click to expand...

I agree with BBF, but if you are one that is worried about acne, follow my plan. Either way you are going to grow and Progesterone sides are minimal to non-existent compared to test sides IMHO.
 
The_Eviscerator said:
Either way you are going to grow and Progesterone sides are minimal to non-existent compared to test sides IMHO.
Click to expand...
Unless of course he happens to be sensitive to progesterone sides. Deca simply = gyno for many people.
 
Silent Method said:

Unless of course he happens to be sensitive to progesterone sides. Deca simply = gyno for many people.
Click to expand...

True, but Test = Gyno, Acne, Bloat, Baldness, prostate enlargement for many more people. Until he finds out which type of susceptibility to side effects he is more prone to have, it is better to be cautious. Maybe 400mg of deca is too much, but I still think it is much safer than 500mg of sustanon. Of course, I speak from personal experience and therefore have a jaded view of test in general. I try to get by with as little as possible in a cycle.
 
The_Eviscerator said:
True, but Test = Gyno, Acne, Bloat, Baldness, prostate enlargement for many more people. Until he finds out which type of susceptibility to side effects he is more prone to have, it is better to be cautious.
Click to expand...
I see your point and true enough save for the fact that I'm not so sure we can rightly say either is worse for a larger portion of the population.

It wasn't that long ago when deca was THE base steroid. Anecdotal stories of negative the side effect regarding deca, acne hair loss, tits, bloat, and 6 month long limp dicks, were much more common than they seem to be now.

Today, test has become the most popular base steroid. Now more focus has been shifted to all those nasty test sides as more users of the drug exist to tell us their woes.


I think we agree that it is prudent to be catious and assess ones reaction to a given drug. For this reason I think it is imprudent to more than one major compound on a first cycle - especially ones that take such fairly different paths regarding side effects.

Here we have a 19 year old man. A primary concern is not over supressing his HTPA. IMO, if for no other reason, deca is out.
 
ask yourself this can you gain anymore natrually, if you can answer yes then do it if not then think about a cycle make sure you totally understand what you are doing and the products. feel free to email me and will do whatever I can to help
 
Silent Method said:


It wasn't that long ago when deca was THE base steroid. Anecdotal stories of negative the side effect regarding deca, acne hair loss, tits, bloat, and 6 month long limp dicks, were much more common than they seem to be now.

Today, test has become the most popular base steroid. Now more focus has been shifted to all those nasty test sides as more users of the drug exist to tell us their woes.
Click to expand...

This is very true... being a teenager in the late 80's -early 90's... all I ever heard was deca, deca, deca. I am sure the abuse of this drug was rampant. Most horror stories about deca were probably told by individuals who did 600 or more mg's a week for far too long. Deca for 16 weeks is a major mistake... regardless of the dose.

Now test is king and we see the ill effects of overdosing on the other side. The pendulum has swung.

I say keep the pendulum in the middle and do a safe dose of 250 sus and 200-400mg of deca. At these doses, I see virtually no possibility of ill effects... other than enlarged muscles.
 
If you plan on using a high dose of Deca acne should be your least concern. Have you ever heard of Gynecomastia? Acne will go away, the gyno won't. You can't prevent it either.

500mgs/week is a very high dose for someone that has no idea of wether they're prone to it. 400mgs/week is high. 300mgs/week is high.

Start with 200mgs if you must, but don't go higher.
 
The_Eviscerator said:
I say keep the pendulum in the middle and do a safe dose of 250 sus and 200-400mg of deca. At these doses, I see virtually no possibility of ill effects... other than enlarged muscles.
Click to expand...
I follow the logic. (I would have to agree with genar about restricting the deca to 200 mg the first go.)


However, I still feel it's best for a first timer to stick with one compound to assess how he tolerates it.
 
since this is your first time I think using one type of AAS is a good idea,this way you will know how your body reacts for future cycles

this is more optimal
cycle A
250mg sust weeks 1-10
dbol 25mg ed weeks 1-4
followed by clomid,have nolva on hand also

Cycleb
300mg deca weeks 1-10

see deca and test can both cause gyno and they come from very different causes,by doing one first cycle you have eliminated the guessing and having to put more drugs into your body when that type of gyno may not be present.once you know how your body reacts to these compounds you can add them together and enjoy.
 
I think i will do Sust first. Is there any truth in that if taking Winny with Decca that it will counteract Progesterone(sp) gyno? Ive got Nolvadex and Clomid on hand but i know they wont work.
 
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