PATRICK and PAR DEUS: The skinny on 1-AD, 1-test and KITCHEN CHEMISTRY!

[Fortes]

Alrighty. First off, Patrick or Par, if you guys EVER, EVER need a really good guinea pig, I think I'd be great. I can even e-mail you guys a resume etc. to prove to you that I am serious about this game. Please, if you do ever need guinea pigs who are not flaky, email me at [email protected] - I have a couple of friends who lift hardcore and would be more than thrilled to try your products out.

Now that we've got all that on the table, I've got some serious questions that I assume the rest of our friends on Elite would love to hear the answers to.

1. Is 1-testosterone orally bioavailable? If it has that double bond, shouldn't it be (like primo?)

2. Does it have to be esterfied/alkyllated/etc. to be orally bioavailable?

3. What is the conversion rate of 1-AD to 1-testosterone after it passes through the liver? (my guess is like 4-AD, 15-20% depending on enzyme availability, grapefruit juice consumption, etc.)

4. Can the conversion enzymes be included with 1-AD to give it a significantly higher BV?

5. Topical 1-test: could it be made like finasol
(IPM/Water/99% Isopropyl/5 mgs drug/cc)

6. Is the kilosports 1-AD (beta iosmer) and 1-testosterone legit? It sure is cheap.

So yeah. Answer those, and I will probably buy your products.

Patrick - just a side note. I tried 4-AD orally at 1 gram/day like you advised (stand alone). It made me feel bloated, I became slightly stronger and it provided my chronic knee pain some relief. All in all, I wasn't impressed with it as a supplement, though. Then, after one week of being on 1-AD (400mg/day), I started to feel even stronger. So I decided to add my leftover 4-AD back into the mix. WHAMMO! The more I think about, the more I tend to think that the stack was better than either product by itself (even though I think 1-AD still kicks 4-AD's ass as an oral).

I've heard from people that for whatever reason, certain oral steroids (methyltestosterone, methylandrostenediol) POTENTIATE other steroids when stacked together for some odd reason having to do with androgen receptors. Does this hold any water?

Oh yeah, one last question: If I dissolve 4-AD, 1-AD or
1-testosterone in some nonpolar ingestible solvent such as warmed flax or vegetable oil etc., would it be more bioavaiable? Or, how could I "esterfy" or ethylate/methylate a steroid/PH to make it more bioavailable? (without serious chemistry gear or residual uningestible reageant issues). That's really the million dollar question as far as I'm concerned: Can we make bioavailable steroids out of OTC stuff at home? (yeah, I know I'm a jackass for asking this . . . but as an amateur chemist, I'm just curious, ya know?)

Sorry about the LONG ASS post, and thanks in advance for the info!

 

[Fortes]

BUMP!

BUMP, DAMMIT! My curiosity is driving me INSANE!!!!!

 

[pa1ad]

[B.

>1. Is 1-testosterone orally bioavailable? If it has that double bond, shouldn't it be (like primo?)


It has a moderate degree of oral bioavailablilty probably


>3. What is the conversion rate of 1-AD to 1-testosterone after it passes through the liver? (my guess is like 4-AD, 15-20% depending on enzyme availability, grapefruit juice consumption, etc.)


We do not know


>4. Can the conversion enzymes be included with 1-AD to give it a significantly higher BV?


No


5. Topical 1-test: could it be made like finasol
(IPM/Water/99% Isopropyl/5 mgs drug/cc)


Maybe


6. Is the kilosports 1-AD (beta iosmer) and 1-testosterone legit? It sure is cheap.


Do not know


>So yeah. Answer those, and I will probably buy your products.


No, you will by kilosports product. Don't lie


>I've heard from people that for whatever reason, certain oral steroids (methyltestosterone, methylandrostenediol) POTENTIATE other steroids when stacked together for some odd reason having to do with androgen receptors. Does this hold any water?


No


>Oh yeah, one last question: If I dissolve 4-AD, 1-AD or
1-testosterone in some nonpolar ingestible solvent such as warmed flax or vegetable oil etc., would it be more bioavaiable?

You will not be able to dissolve much. It may help bioavailability



>Or, how could I "esterfy" or ethylate/methylate a steroid/PH to make it more bioavailable? (without serious chemistry gear or residual uningestible reageant issues). That's really the million dollar question as far as I'm concerned: Can we make bioavailable steroids out of OTC stuff at home? (yeah, I know I'm a jackass for asking this . . . but as an amateur chemist, I'm just curious, ya know?)


You may be able to esterify at home but esterification does not do anything to oral bioavailability. Methylation is impossible for you to do at home

 

[69Muscle]

Jesus. That's some advanced Sheet!

 

[Triple J]

PA I have another question for you, would it be possible to create a nor version of 1-AD. I guess better stated is there a potential steroid nor-1-test?

 

[Par Deus]

I have nothing useful to add to PA's post.

ParDeus

 

[pa1ad]

PA I have another question for you, would it be possible to create a nor version of 1-AD. I guess better stated is there a potential steroid nor-1-test?

Potentially such a compound probably could be synthesized, but I am pretty certain a nor 1-test would not be very active hormone. In general, nor derivatives of DHT are pretty useless compounds.

 

[Triple J]

Potentially such a compound probably could be synthesized, but I am pretty certain a nor 1-test would not be very active hormone. In general, nor derivatives of DHT are pretty useless compounds.

Thanks for the response. Can you briefly elaborate further? Is your answer based on the molecular structures involved and their activation modalities, like as in (just guessing) DHT being primarily androgenic while nor-derivitives are designed to enhance primarily anabolic pathways? Or something else such as known test studies and/or research?

 

[Fortes]

HAHA! I get it.

Pat, please just speak your mind. If my annoying, analytical questions bug you, just say "Shut the hell up, you annoying bitch!" I mean, if that's how you feel, anyways.

Oh yeah, and I was really considering buying your product. Truly. I have already tried 1-AD as you know. I know LPJ sells 4-AD and nordiol in bulk, and I know LPJ is your company. If you decided to sell 1-AD/1-Test powder 100 grams at a time (with the commensurate discount rates), I'd buy it from you.

But that wouldn't be very profitable, would it? Seriously though, if you ever need a guinea pig, let me know!

BTW, I had some severe nut pain today. I went home early from work because my left nut (the one that shrunk while on 4-AD/1-AD) hurt so damn bad. I know it's expensive as hell, but I think that you should really have some kind of empirical testing done on 1-AD (even just an extensive collection of anecdotal incidents from various users would be great). But that wouldn't be profitable, now would it? Well, I guess that's what this board is for.

 

[pa1ad]

Thanks for the response. Can you briefly elaborate further? Is your answer based on the molecular structures involved and their activation modalities, like as in (just guessing) DHT being primarily androgenic while nor-derivitives are designed to enhance primarily anabolic pathways? Or something else such as known test studies and/or research?

It has to do with the binding at the androgen receptor most likely. A couple of papers have shown that both DHT and nandrolone bind strongly, but when you make a 19-nor DHT the configuraton of the A ring becomes unfavorable for binding. This is supported by the fact that the 19nor DHT compounds that have been made and tested show little anabolic androgenic activity. The assays are summarized in Vida's steroid book