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overtraining misery/ what to do?

wavywoman

New member
Let me start off by saying that I the reason I post this message on this board is because this board has more knowledgable people than the average fitness board! This board is great!
:confused: Hmmm... where to begin... Right now I think I'm in a stage of overtraining. I have most of the symptoms I read up on: amenorrhea for a year with one period last January, fatigue, general moodiness, sometimes wobbly or dizzy-feeling, impulsive need to work out every day and I probably don't eat enough for what I do. I do a little weight-resistant exercise, but the bulk of what I do nearly every day is cardio. The elliptical machine tells me that I supposedly burn 900 calories in a little over an hour of exercise (65 minutes or so). By my estimates I eat about 1300-1500 a day, although I know I should probably be eating a little more. I guess simple math would tell me I'm eating way too little if the elliptical machine is right. However, I'm in a quandry. I'm fairly happy at my weight right now 5'4"/110-112 and have no desire whatsoever of gaining weight, of course-- unless it's muscle. (Technically, according to my age, 20, small body frame I'm at a healthy weight). Over the fall and winter, I decided that the amenorrhea was serious, and began to eat more. I went from 1500 on average to about 2000 fairly gradually, which was easy to do because of all the @$%@#$ holiday food. Supposedly, on a lot of websites and books I've read, my body can support 2000 calories while maintaining my weight and work out schedule, but my experiences say otherwise. My workouts were easier and I lifted more weights, but despite my harder-than-usual workouts I gained ten pounds of flab on the 2000 calorie a day diet, fairly quickly. I also had a period at my peak last winter of 120 or so. Granted, being 120lbs isn't fat, but on my body it all became cellulite, belly fat. Eating more seems to have un-done all of the gains in my body since I had began to exercise in January of 2000. (Many women look good at "normal" weights whereas I do not. Just had to write this in case any 5'4" 120lbs woman is reading this and thinking "So, you think I'M A PRIZE CORN-FED HIEFFER COW?"-- no, I do not. I don't gain the weight in my chest, for example. I'm much more comfortable at the low end where I am now. It all goes straight to my stomach, thighs, ass.) I freaked out at how blubbery I felt and at how much I had gained, so over a period of time I ended up cutting back, mainly on extra carbs. I've also became more aware of my body's "need" for fat, and more protein. My workouts are now a bit slower than they used to be. I have a lot of overtraining symptoms, too. I still work out nearly every day @ 900 calories. I don't know what to do. Today I jogged instead of doing the elliptical, and probably burned 600 or so-- right now I feel much better, more alert, etc., not as moody. My common sense tells me to maybe back off a little the strenuousness of my cardio, or take more rest days, or eat more, but the irrational side of me is fearful that I'll gain all the nasty flab back again, undoing all of my "gains". For instance, if I cut back on cardio to 600kcal for 6 days a week, I won't burn the 1800kcals extra that I do when I maintain the 900kcal workouts. In my mind the extra 1800 will turn to flabby fat on my thighs, adding a new pound of lard on my body every two weeks. On the other hand, I wonder if I'm burning off so much muscle or becoming so lethargic at 900kcal a day that cutting back wouldn't change anything (because I'd be more physically active during the day, have more muscle to burn calories). This is driving me insane. What would you guys/girls suggest I do? Thanks for putting up with my whining!
 
OK welcome to calorie counting hell. I cant' give you all the specific details here -- but I've picked up a few misconceptions about exercise & eating -

- cardio is catabolic. Maybe trade in some of the cardio time for weight lifting
- the number of calories the elliptical machine says doesn't account for the fat you will continue to burn throughout the day now that your system has been "kick started".
- Overtraining sucks - the better term is under-recovery. If you don't allow your body the time and resources it needs to recover, eventually it will take it, regardless of what you want or do (e.g. you'll get sick, feel sluggish, maybe have your metabolism slow down, hold onto all the calories you are consuming, regardless of cardio) It will affect your mood. Also if you are doing the same thing all the time, your body will get conditioned toward it and then returns on your efforts will no longer be as efficient.
- Eating should be the fuel for living, not something you have to fight on a daily basis to keep the calories down. If you eat a clean diet w/ the stuff to fuel your body vs. just food that provides a total number of calories per day, your body will actually become more efficient at processing the food you put in. This is the reason behind why eating more will help you lose weight.
- Dont' get hung up on weight- its a number that represents how attractive your mass is to the earth. The more relavent measure is body fat.
- Don't be scared of food. Identify the right food that will fuel your body and will be processed optimally.

Your body WANTS to run efficiently - but if you don't provide it with the stuff it needs, it ain't gonna.

BTW, if you've not had your period for that long, you really need to get that addressed. I'm sure you've seen some of the threads about this topic, the long term effects of amenhorrea - brittle bones, etc. Don't go there at your age - you need that bone mass! Same for being dizzy from lack of food. Forget how it affects your workouts and mood - this affects the quality of your life. A couple extra pounds is worth a good quality existence. Maybe have your whole diet & exercise regimen assessed by a personal trainer or someone who can give you a more varied program w/ the right foods, right calories for your goals and some more weight training instead of just cardio.

Good luck!

Lobo? Anyone else any comments?
 
not sure how long you stayed at 120, but i'd give it 3-4 months for your body to adjust to actually getting fed adaquate amounts (the body is an effiecent machine and if you had it running on so low fuel for a long time it gets used to it, you will need to give it time to 'unprogram' itself from starvation mode...)

you may gain fat in the short term, but in the long term you will be able to support better workouts, increase your lean muscle mass which will get your metabolism up and running again....

cut back a little on the cardio, hit the weights with intensity (fueled by a clean diet with efficent calories to support your activity).... it will take a while, but you'll reach your goals... in the short term you need to put your health before your desire for the ideal body.... it'll all pay off in the end...
 
Welcome Wavywoman!
cannot really add to anything already said, just wanted to give a word of encouragement for you.
Many times, gals do lots cardio hoping to burn fat, when developing lean muscle through resistance training will give the calories ingested 'something to do'. I first got interested in strength training when I realized I could eat more, not starve myself, look & feel better if I put on some muscle- love to eat!
After cardio ends, there is an 'afterburn'- body normally continues to burn calories at an accelerated rate for a time if metabolism is functioning properly. However, lifting weights & building muscle promotes a faster metabolism all the time- not to mention developes stronger bones. Some gals notice the scale going up & legs getting bigger when they hit the weights harder & get disillusioned- muscle is starting to build, yet the fat has not come off yet. It takes awhile for metabolism to start up efficiently again.
Enjoy the info & motivation here- hope to hear from you again soon.
Good health to you. :rolly:
 
thank you for excellent posts!

Wow! Thank you all so much for such excellent posts in such timely fashion! When I looked over my message I was like "Oh man, no one will read this, it's waaaay too long!". I type fast, and way too much.
Believe it or not, I feel that I was a much scarier person last summer-- I did weigh myself every morning naked, crazy stuff like that. Now my scale is gathering dust, although I weighed myself two or three weeks ago and found out I was hovering around 110/112ish. I was often either in a state where I was eating very religiously or binging and working out 1000 a day. I had freaky goals like 105lbs.
Well, to be realistic, I know my habits are spartan and strange. One of my problems now is that I'm becoming accostomed to eating lower. When my stomach is full and distended I'm like "Shit! Now I have to walk 3 miles!"
Sometimes I rationalize what I do by telling myself "You're not anorexic, you don't want to lose weight, and you're not eating under 1200kcal a day or eliminating important foods". However, when I step back and look at myself I know I'm teetering on a fine line that sometimes messes with my head.
Yes, I have contacted a gynocologist about my amenorrhea. She put me on 3 weeks of estrogen and a week of progesterone. I'm supposedly going to get a period within the next few days. Right now I'm really worried that it will never happen, and then who knows what kinds of tests she'll put me through!
I've been trying for the past few months to increase protein, fat (good kinds), make absolutely sure I'm getting 1500mg of calcium. I've been consistant with training my arms, I've tried doing squats very recently. I'm still a total novice though. I bought a book called "Sculpting her body perfect"--- perhaps I'll reread it and really focus on doing the exercises.
Thanks for the help!
 
I'm the same way about BF %

Okay, while we're confessing...I get the same way -- CRAZY!!! -- about my BF levels. I have panics before I get BF tested and obsessed with the number being low all the time. :bawling: I too freak out when my tummy gets distended from eating and annoy the hell out of my husband and anyone else who happens to be around at the moment. Help!
 
You people drive me CRAZY at times!! Since i love you all SO much, i post on your heart felt posts! People as WarLobo mentioned, throw away that damn scale, and take the time to set yourself up on an educated nutrition program! It ALL starts with your nutrition! Until you realize this, forget about anything else! If you are not eating at least one gram of protein per each pound of your bodyweight, your body stays in catabolic stage! That means in short you are spinning your wheels and it's dangerous! Please educate yourselves, and be healthy!! Much love!!
WarLobo, you kill me! Learn to do squats!! LOL!!!!
 
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Yeah, I *think* I'm finally getting it...

My monthly "friend" that is. I'm sure most of you would really rather not know that information, but I'm glad that the hormones my Dr. put me on worked!
I've read in some places that amenorrhea can be exacerbated by not getting enough protein, cholesterol and fat in the diet.
Getting enough protein has been one of my major concerns lately. I'm convinced that I generally don't get enough. Here are some foods that I'm trying to incorperate into my diet:
fish-- salmon, mahi mahi, tuna, halibut, shark
other seafoods- crabmeat, shrimp (easy to get in supermarket)
poultry- chicken breasts (are those boneless ones in the bag REALLY four or five ounces? They seem huge!) Lean sliced turkey.
beans-- I love these, wish I could think of new ways to cook them besides with rice
yogurt-- I already eat yogurt every day, but it does have protein in it
eggs- I mainly make hardboiled b/c it's difficult to make them scrambled/cooked without using lard or oil.
red meat- sad to say it, but I really don't like red meat. Typical woman, eh? Although after two weeks of no red I crave a hamburger.
As far as fats go, I generally have a tbsp or two of peanut butter a day.
Here is an example of what I had yesterday:
3/4 cup fiber one (90cal) I'm a freak who won't eat ceral with milk normally.
canteloupe (40)
yogurt (100)
1tbs peanut butter (100)
5 whole wheat crackers (60)
sm. can albacore tuna (90)
2tsp light mayo (30)
1 whole wheat tortilla (90)
plum (40)
skim hot chocolate w/ splenda (100)
stir fry shrimp w/ vegetables (200)
rice (200)
yogurt lowfat/cherries (200)
daily calories-- appx 1340
My diet now is probably more "balanced" than it was a year ago when I ate mostly carbs every day. :eek2: The odd situation I find is that eating more protein has probably made my overall calorie intake lower. It has also forced me to learn how to cook. For example, I used to have a bowl of pasta for lunch, or a bagel, or snack on pretzels. Then I'd wonder why my skin looked like shit and my mouth was sore and gums were bleeding. During the past winter I constantly snuck extra baggies of oatmeal, extra bowls of cereal, carb-laiden desserts like scones :rolleyes: . Now that I'm eating more protein for lunch on a regular basis, I'm satisfied with less. :confused: I desire less carbs, too. The 200 for the rice is probably an inflated number since I didn't serve myself a lot of it. I understand many people on here don't like to eat any fruit or any carbs, but since I'm not trying to lose a ton of body fat I'm not really focused on that.
Sorry for my incessant rambling. :nerd: Any advice is welcomed, and I'm pleased to see some really good quality responses to my post! :D
 
Wavy,

I know what you mean about eating mostly carbs - your body just craves more of them, you feel like crap most of the time, and no matter what you do at the gym, there's little progress.

Like you're doing, once I started adding in more protein, things started improving. I didn't feel hungry all the time, my energy improved, and my workouts improved. Things got even better when I added in Omega 3 fats (good fats) like Flaxseed oil. None of this happened overnight though. My diet was so screwed up, I had to take one step at a time (and a few steps backwards sometimes), but all those steps forward have added up!

Remember, not all carbs are bad. You still need carbs for energy and brain function. But stick with carbs that have a lower glycemic index - so your blood sugar won't be on a roller coaster.

I've found that I do best on a 40/40/20 plan - 40% protein 40% carbs and 20% fat. It's not that exact everyday, but that's about what I aim for. The main thing is your body needs fuel, whether you want to burn fat, build muscle, or both. When calories are too low, the body will burn muscle instead of fat.
 
My recommendations for your diet:

Replace all but one serving of the fruit with dark green veggies, like spinach, broccoli, green beans, etc.

Keep the oatmeal and rice (or replace rice with 1 red potato) but replace all the other carbs (i.e. crackers, tortilla) with equivalent calorie servings of chicken breast or turkey breast.

That little bit of tuna and shrimp isn't nearly enough protein for you, in my opinion. I would also throw in a whey protein suppliment shake once a day.

I think your problem with feeling like when you gain weight it goes straight to cellulite/fat on your tummy will be improved greatly when your muscle tone picks up. I know a couple vegetarians who have pretty low bodyfat levels but they look soft and flabby because they don't get enough protein to keep the muscle tone up to par. If you really hate chicken and turkey breast, there are a few vegetarians on the board who can help you pick non-meat alternatives to get your protein up. (...are you listening, girls?)

Back off on the cardio, try doing only 30 minutes per day. Start working with weights 3 days a week instead of (or in addition to) the cardio. Get some help in learning how to do the exercises with the weights safely if you aren't real familiar with them.

Good luck!!! Let us know how it goes! :)
Fennec
 
... tired

Well, I managed to slow down a *little* in todays workout. Not by much though-- just about 800 instead of 900. I did weights, mostly upper-body, at higher weights and lower reps. I can really feel a dramatic difference compared to yesterday, when I had a "milder" workout (5-6 mile run, maybe 600 calories at the most). Today I'm in a state of "brain fog", feel really tired, apathetic, bitchy. :dodgy: I have a take-home essay test I have to work on, and have no ambition to work on it. For some reason, I keep thinking about food, but I rarely get hunger pangs. My folks are planning on having veal sausage for dinner, and I'm allready becoming psycho-calorie watcher, figuring just one sandwich with a big refined white roll and sausage will equal 500+ calories, and the idea of eating it is pissing me off already! What is it with our culture that demands that we eat processed meats WITH refined bread? I'm mentally so warped that I'm already trying to think of ways to avoid eating the whole thing. People look at you like you have three heads if you eat a hamburger without the bun! Oh man...
Well, the yogurt I eat is nonfat, and I think it has aspertime instead of sugar for the most part... I guess I should check it out... Oh man, I could sleep for 10 hours. Thanks for the info, everyone!
PS: Yes, I did eat the entire sausage... would have eaten five of them I think, I did leave half the roll there. :chomp:
 
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I don't think it's our culture that's so off about eating carbs, fat and protein together. That's actually not a bad combination. Most cultures eat some variation on that same theme--some great amounts of carbs, some great amounts of protein, some, likethe Inuit, greater amounts of fat.

It's good that you're paying attention to your workouts, but here's a radical thought--

When was the last time you took a couple of days or even a whole week off? Walked, biked for fun, swam, surfed, etc? Ate whatever caught your eye? Didn't pay any attention to the cals, the fat %, where it was whole or skim, real sugar or fake?

If a week is too scary, why not try taking a day off--no gym, no diet, just fun?
 
First of all you need to sit back and RELAX!!! You are far to concerned and you are putting way to much energy into all of this. Everything is very simple and basic, and you must keep it like that. Personally I do not think you are taking in enough food, protein is a MUST!! Its good for you, and it will not make you FAT! You should be taking in at least 1gram per lb of bodyweight. Nutrition is the only way any of your workouts are going to give you the results you are looking for. Otherwise you are just running your head into the ground. You are doing way to much cardio for the amount of food you are eating....lay off a little, take a break and read the boards for a few days and get a different perspective on the whole situation. You should maybe look to hiring a trainer to show you exercises and techniques to help you build a solid program. You must have protein to build anything......Keep positive and take your time, this is a lifestyle change and it takes a while to learn and let go of those old habits society seems to lead all women too. Dont obsess over this, and throw away your scale...i rarely weigh myself now, maybe 1 time a month, i go by the way my clothes fit, and how i look in the mirror, scales are so discouraging and they are of no help, WHO CARES HOW MUCH YOU WEIGH.....numbers mean nothing....its how you look and feel!!!!!!
 
Great replies! Thanks!

Thank all of you for great ideas :idea: and comments!
Well, it's ironic that new@gettinbig and keiko told me to take a day off, since that's precisely what I'm doing today. Well, one of my major reasons is to get this essay test done, and I know I won't be able to if I'm in a state of total brain fog.
As far as taking a mini-vacation from working out goes, I rarely do. Every once in a blue moon I might take two days off in a row-- but this upcoming weekend I'm going up to Boston and know I won't be able to keep up my workout obsession. :eek2: First of all, if the weather goes well, I'll be riding on the back of a bike :frolic: and won't be able to pack my sneakers!
Yes, I agree with all on the "Throw out the scale" :destroy: mantra. The only reason I've weighed myself lately is out of morbid curiosity, knowing that I've lost too much and wanting to find the extent of my "damage" :eek2: and to prove to myself that enough is enough . I stopped my daily weighing when I started to gain last winter, knowing it F(&cked with my mind too much to do it more than every once in a while.
I have to say though that I think I've learned a lesson or two. :think: Last year I was this thin, and felt like shit. Very little sex drive, dreaming about food, oddly no physical stomach-growling appetite, going to bed early like an old woman and waking up too damn early.
One thing that irritates me about fitness and healthy diet is that there seems to be no hard scientific concepts about it that apply to everyone evenly, even if all you want to do is find out how much food you need to "maintain". One one hand, some sources of nutritional info make it sound like I'm doing everything "Right" while others tell me I'm doing it all "Wrong", and unfortunately the overriding message in all nutritional books/sites is "eat less less exercise more more more" ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE FEMALE but no one defines when enough is enough and it's time to move on. I've seen some so-called legitimate websites telling women to eat 1200 calorie diets. :eyeroll: I have to admit it's hard to ignore the social message I've got coming at me from all sides: Beautiful=Stickbug thin, 20lbs underweight and my boyfriend stares at the flaming bulemic girl with the spindle-legs in a miniskirt. Anyway, why is it that guys have such a hard time recognizing eating disordered women? Why are anorectic legs so attractive to them? Point to Kate Moss and half the guys out there would say "She's not too skinny!". Whole other topic, maybe doesn't apply to any of the (real) men on this board.
Thanks for the info all, and for reading my rambling posts! I'll be parooosing the diet boards, checking out some good info after I'm done w/ my essay!
 
yes, society is a big overall contradiction when it comes to women... you just have to look inside yourself and see what your goals are... if you want to be rake thin with no muscle structure and no energy, i'm sure someone on this board can help you get that together (follow every fashion and most of the fitness magazines recommendations and see where that gets ya).... but i'm assuming you don't and that's why you're here :)

speaking of fashion magazines... i was reading muscle and fitness hers the other day (the one for us :) ) and i actually saw a little blurb that a healthy diet should contain 1200 caloires... i almost laughed up my 500 cal shake.... i'm going to write them in complaint... for active women who aspire to have muscle rather than fat, 1200 calories is just over half of the cals you need...

i take in well over 2000 cals a day, even when i'm cutting my count never dips below 1700-1800... but as you said everyone is different, stop counting calories period for a while... eat to fuel your body, so it can what you want it to do... then, once you finally feel like you are eating enough, your energy is up and your workouts are progressing, see what your calorie intake is... and tweak it from there...

oh and the scale, whenever you weigh yourself, drink as much water as you can in the half hour right afterwards and weigh yourself again... now, that number has probably moved a pound or two... does that mean your a lb or two fatter??? NO, just means your hydrated and your bladder is (or soon will be full)...
once a week i will weigh myself before and after my cardio, just to make sure i've gotten enough water... that number really doesn't mean SQUAT when you have muscles...
(okay, now i said the bad s word... my legs hate me from my workout last night and i think i'll go take a bath :) )
 
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women's magazines are lousey

One of my bigger problems now as far as food intake goes is that I can't recognize my actual hunger. I've been eating every two or three hours in semi-equal amounts, though. Sometimes I feel woozy or lethargic and I have a hard time justifying to myself that I need to eat. When I start feeling bloated/full I'm convinced that I've 'gone overboard'. I wish I "knew" for a fact how much I could eat every day and maintain what I want. Impossible wish without a lot of time investment and record-keeping, I guess.
Yes, believe me, I'm not weighing myself every day. I think it's funny how the concept of "water weight" eludes so many people... Read up web boards and you'll find teenaged girls freaking out "OHMIGOD I gained 5 pounds over the past two days!".
 
Back in the dark ages, I used to write for a well--known fashion magazine.
Here's the big, open secret:

They keep you fucked up so you buy stuff.

If you 're convinced that you 'll never get laid and/or married without longer eyelashes, better smelling body-parts, tanned skin, silkier hair-- then you'll buy the products advertised and recommended in the edit pages. And what's new is always better that what you got last month.

Every picture you see is either air-brushed or Adobe Photoshopped. Even Kate Moss has marks removed, etc. I'd say most models and or celebs are very disappointing in real life--they photograph well, and that's it. The current Vogue has an article about some salon in New York that gets rid of cellulite by electric current. The author allegedly saw a difference before and after the sessions--but there weren't any pix (not that I'd believe them, anyway.)

You need no special knowledge of healthy, beauty (most mag employees don't look particularly great , although Vogue today is an exception because that's how Anna Wintour hires) to work for one of these publications (and I'd say even the more fitness-oriented ones are the same). There's no research, there's no fact-checking, there's no accountability. They can print that you need 900 cals a day and who's going to challenge them?

I don't think any beauty publication actually takes into account what men like (otherwise Hugh Hefner would publish one). But men get bombarded by the media just as much--look how many men's publications tell guys they need a very thin, big-boobed blonde or they're losers.
 
beauty mags are trash

I totally agree with the beauty magazine bashing... They are trash-- and yes, I do think they have the goal of making women feel inferior so they'll buy more products. Most of them are the same ads and articles recycled over and over and over again.
Unfortunately, I think A LOT of guys buy into that stick-but-plastic-breasted thing without really thinking about it... All of the major men's magazines I see now have super thin, very tall, very large breasted, heavily made up women on the covers. Of course, this makes women want to buy more stuff to make themselves beautiful. :mad: Most of this stuff doesn't work, either. Good hair cuts and good nutrition makes your hair look good, not tons of hair dyes and products and treatments... Acne can't be cured by using a product bought in CVS for the most part-- generally you need a dermotologist if it's recurrent. Cellulite isn't special fat that can be zapped with a cream. Man, I wish women didn't buy into that stuff....
 
So what should be my first step?

So, I'm wondering here-- how should I go about cutting back on cardio and/or increasing calories? Should I cut 100 calories from my workout and increase about 100 (where I need it) in my diet a week? I recognize that I need to change both, I'm leery about slicing my cardio time in half while adding several hundred calories every day-- I don't want to wind up with ten pounds of lard on my small body from calorie overkill.
 
WW -

DON"T COUNT THE CALORIES IT SAYS YOU BURNED DURING CARDIO. An efficient metabolism will continue to burn calories efficiently.

Yes it is true that for ex, maintenance is calories in = calories used up. But also important is the type of calories you are providing for your body. You want the kind that will fuel good cardio & training, not the kind that sit on your butt. (E.g. more protein, fewer empty carbs).

You should change up your diet according to some of the suggestions already given - replace the yogurt with some chicken and vegetables or something. Make sure you're getting enough good quality fats - this will help fuel you and keep you from getting "fog on the brain" if you are carbs are low. Make sure you are getting at least 1 g of protein for each lb of body weight. Lay out such meal plan and count up the calories - if you check out some of the threads on the diet board you will find how you can determine the number of calories required to maintain your current weight (based on your basal metabolic rate, etc - no time to search for those threads for you right now).

Then cut back on your cardio and replace some of it with weight training - like 3 days / week - split it up - either upper body one day, lower body next, maybe do 3-4 times per week, every other day. Or break it up legs, back & biceps, chest & triceps - just enough so you aren't working the same muscle group without giving at least 24-48 hours rest between sessions. Mix cardio in on the off days. To get the most out of your cardio sessions (so you aren't doing l o n g sessions), do it in the morning on an empty stomach or immediately after your workouts for best results.

PLEASE don't get paranoid about changing up some of your cardio - too much of it is the reason you posted in the first place. You will burn fat doing the training as well. If you keep your intervals between sets short, like 30-45 sec, you are getting a bit of a cardio workouto anyway. Equivalently, don't stand around and chat between your sets on the weights or machines.

If nothing else, just try replacing some cardio with lifting sessions for a week or two and see how you feel. It may take up to like 3 weeks to see a difference, but just changing your current routine may spark some new energy into your system!
 
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Many gals get hung up on the numbers- cal burned, ca; consumed, etc...I did in the beginning.
The machines do not take into account height, BMR, bf% to muscle ratio- numbers posted on machines are general. Like Sassy said- do not count these #s. Personally, I do not look at these- I only read time & knowing how hard I worked at it. Strength training= metabolically active tissue=long term calorie burning BODY. Intense squats & walking lunges will burn cal while building muscle- it's a bonus deal without going overboard w/ cardio. As mentioned, short rests between sets=calories burning too.
You said you are not weighing yourself everyday- I would like to ask you personally to stay off the scale for a month. When I see a gal I know & have talked with, is concentrating on numbers, doing too much cardio & little weight training (if any) head for our gym scale, I tell her 'it's not accurate'. Too many times seen them get bummed out & lose determination because the scale does not read as they had hoped.
Good luck to you Wavy- do not give up!
There has been so much useful info posted on this thread- got to hand it to all these knowlegable gals who have a passion for fitness & the smart way to attain it. :)
 
whoa, still tired today...

Well, yesterday I took a day off, and today I managed to force myself to keep my cardio down to 40 minutes. Of course, my body helped that, since I felt really sssslow this morning. My fogginess is a little better. I was going on for a while eating under my BMR and working out like a hamster on a wheel but I think it's finally kicked me in the @$$! :splat:
I'm trying to change my perspective here on cardio... Today I rationalized myself by telling myself those extra "400 I didn't burn" on the elliptical would go to more worthwhile endeavours-- like washing my car, cleaning my room, not feeling like a lump of jelly, etc.. I guess I burn off soo much in my workouts that I burn myself out, and have no energy for general life activities... Thanks so much for the great posts, everyone! I'll definitely print it out once it goes stale!
 
overtraining

Well first off, I am right there with you letting the food consume you, instead of consuming the food.

I also prefer to train hard, and diet, but we always have to be realistic. If your body is telling you that you need to cut back, then cut back. If you aren't comfortable eating more, then stop killing yourself with the cardio, train with weights more often, and sleep eight hours every night. If you are too stubborn to cut anything, supplementation is the key. There are natural (legal) supplements if you are not looking to cross that line, that will help you. There are also really wonderful perscription drugs that wouldn't let the thought of overtraining cross your mind.

Instead of thinking about calories, think about a gram per gram basis.

What I do: I train with weights two days on (each weight training session is 1.5-2 hours hard), one day off... Cardio at least once a day.. If I do cardio only once, I do 25-35 minutes on a bike, or if its twice, its 20minutes am/pm. I only consume about 1200-1500calories a day (if you think calories). I try to keep my protein under 140-150g, carbs between 100-120g, and fat is between 20-35g. I am 5'4", 132lbs, vascular, six pack, and cut thighs... I understand that I am a bit excessive at this point, but its the summer, and hey, we all want to look good. (I also take a very mild steriod right now)
I plan on taking a few winter months to relax and gain a little more fat to heal myself so I can get ready for another show.

Understand that if you took the time to post that message, you are mearly having a mental battle with yourself about eating and exercise. Learn to relax. We all have to do that every so often... If your clothes fit a little tight, where them a little bigger... Look at yourself and know that you are relaxing now to look better and feel better later. Keep your head on straight. We all have times to train hard where some might call you obsessed, but to do it year round will become a problem. Try taking four to six weeks to slow down, don't stop completely... Do less cardio and maybe eat more... Your body will take its course and heal... then for another eight to twelve weeks, get back to your hard training.. You may find your body responding better to the rest and to the intense training...

Good luck and RELAX!!!!!

Dieslgrl

Ps. If you are worried about the people around you not feeling quite the same about you, you'll know if they are worth keeping if they do react differently to a softer you.
 
ahhhhh, feel much better today!

Well, I took a day off Saturday, did 40 minutes on the elliptical Sunday, and today I did 45 minutes on the elliptical with 1/2 hour or so of weight training! Well, I have done weight training before, but more haphazardly-- for example, in the past few weeks I've been only training upper body upper body upper body every other day or every two days (ignoring my legs for the most part because they were sore-- hmm, wonder why :rolleyes: .) Today I hit every major muscle group for 3 sets at 15 reps at relatively low weights because my muscle has atrophied so much from overdoing cardio and undereating :goof: . I figure I'll follow the basic 3-day weight training plan in Sculpting Her Body. Then after a few months or so I'll do more targeted stuff if I can!
Wow, I feel SO MUCH BETTER TODAY :FRlol: ! With the help of all your great posts, common sense finally won out! I'm not foggy or voracious, I don't feel depressed or apathetic, and I'm not on the brink of ripping anyone's face off with my teeth :splat: . I'm crossing my fingers hoping I won't bloat up like a baloon, but hopefully if I keep my training up and keep my diet relatively clean I'll be all right. Then again, I over-cardioed/underate so much that I'm sure my metabolism was crawling like a snail from lethargy and sitting on my @$$ like a lump. Thank you guys so much! Any more advice is appreciated!
 
at the risk of ticking a few people off , "There are no dangerous side effects of not having your period." There I said it. Talk to your gyno about this....most of the information about this has been misunderstood. but again talk to your doctor. As long as your mineral levels are stable and blood chemistry and pH normal, it is not a situation to worry about.
Being underweight is healthy. Do some research you will be surprised.
 
frankly...

Another thing about not having your period, is well IT KICKS ASS!! No need for feminine products and that annoying week every month... I wasn't aware that it "wasn't" unhealthy, but now that I do, I won't sweat it ever again!

Thanks!
Dieslgrl
 
blood chemistry?

Although I've read a lot of conflicting information about amenorrhea... some people say it matters while other's done... Personally, I've had my blood hormone levels tested to find out the cause of this, and apparently I have low estrogen for my age. Medical experts "think" low estrogen and osteoperosis are linked, so I'm still kind of worried about it. Also, my sex drive has gone totally south from low estrogen, I think. When I had my period last January, I had a really bad body image problem (felt like a bloated cow) but I was 10x hornier! It depends on the person, I guess. Some super-hard weight training women in here probably gain more bone mass from lifting than they lose from not having their periods. On the other hand, I've read that having TOO many periods might be why women get more weird cancers... I dunno, just wish they created a pill we could pop and never have to think about periods again-- and just stop taking them when we want kids!
 
I was borderline underweight and lost my periods for 5 years. I had a bone scan and discovered that due to lack of estrogen my bones were aged at that of a 55 year old woman - I was half way towards osteoporosis. So don't tell me that not having periods is not harmful.

I now HAVE to take the pill just to get enough estrogen to prevent more bone loss - this means I find it difficult to remove fat from my body.

Also, stop measuring your cardio in terms of kcals. Relax and measure it in time, it is just as obssesive as watching the lbs all the time.
 
that's exactly what i worry about...

What you're talking about is precisely what I'm worried about, Dingo12!
I started facing my amenorrhea after I watched a program on PBS called "dying to be thin". It was about people with eating disorders-- full fledged eating disorders-- and they illustrated the differences between bone scans of an anorexic woman who had amenorrhea for ten years and a normal woman-- the amenorrheic woman had the bones of a 70 year old! It was a dramatization, but it still scared me. From the info I've read, women who don't have amenorrhea, even if they're really lean, don't have bone loss.
Like you were, I think I'm borderline underweight-- but very very borderline. I think that due to age I'm still technically "healthy".
WOW! I cut back my cardio to 45/50 minutes and feel GREAT! After reading Warlobo's thread about 60min cardio I'm sure that sounds odd to everyone, but I think I was going at a really hard fast pace... I feel so much sharper, less foggy, less depressed. I have the energy to WEIGHT TRAIN now and my muscle is sore but I feel GOOD. I don't get the shakes if I don't eat every 2 hrs.
Now it's been almost two weeks since I stopped progesterone after a three week estrogen/one week progesterone cycle... :sad: don't know what's going to happen now.
 
In response to fiat's comment and the other comments - I have heard stories about some research that says you don't need to have a period and of course, I'm LOVING not having to deal with it --- but the fact that it is part of being female kind of indicates it has "some" purpose in nature. If there are interruptions in the monthly visit, I would HIGHLY recommend seeing your doctor about it instead of doing nothing. Especially in the context of body modifications that are associated w/ diet/training/use of chemicals - any or all. There is so much we don't understand about the human body and its response to both subtle and blatant changes - the impact of these is SO MUCH more than what they tell us in commercials, etc. Just go get it checked out. Better safe than sorry. You don't want to be the person on these boards telling the horror story.
 
I AM NEW ON THE BOARD. I WANTED TO SAY HELLO TO YOU BECAUSE I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH. I AM 5'3- 5'4 AND 120LBS. I USED TO DO THE ELLIPTICAL MACHINE FOR AN HOUR EVERYDAY AND I KEPT MY CALORIES AT 1200 A DAY. I LOST A LOT OF MUSCLE IN THE PROCESS AND I FELT TERRIBLE ALL OF THE TIME. I KEPT MYSELF RIGHT UNDER 110LBS BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE WAY I NEEDED TO LOOK LIKE TO BE ACCEPTED.
I NOW TRAIN ONE BODY PART A WEEK AND I DO 40 MINUTES OF CARDIO 2 DAYS ON AND 2DAYS OFF. IF YOU WORK YOUR LEGS HARD ENOUGH ON YOUR DAY OFF YOU WONT EVEN BE ABLE TO DO THE LONG CARDIO WORKOUT. I HONESTLY DONT LIKE BEING 120. IT IS TOO HEAVY FOR MY FRAME, BUT I AM STRONGER AND I FEEL BETTER THAN I HAVE IN A LONG TIME. I STILL THINK ABOUT MY WEIGHT CONSTANTLY, BUT I GUESS I JUST GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I KNEW I COULDN'T FUNCTION LIKE THAT ANYMORE. ULTIMATELY YOU WILL LOSE. NOT ONLY WILL YOU KEEP CRASHING PHYSICALLY YOU WILL FALL MENTALLY. IT IS A DISEASE.
LIKE EVERYONE HAS SAID LIFT MORE WEIGHTS AND EAT MORE PROTEIN IT WILL PAY OFF. TRY TO DO 2 DAYS OF CARDIO ON AND 2 OFF, OR DO IT EVERY OTHER DAY.
 
bleh! Lost five mysterious pounds without trying!

Oh man, am I tired!
I went to Boston for a three day trip-- rode as a passenger on a motorcycle for 14hrs-- 7hrs up from New Jersey and 7hrs back!
I didn't work out for three days-- my appetite was REALLY low-- maybe I ate 1000 calories a day between the ride, having a late breakfast instead of regular lunch, etc.. When I got the chance to look at myself last night in my bedroom mirror-- I was like "Shit, I look like I came home from a concentration camp!" All these bones sticking out in weird places... I was like "Yeah, it's nice having a 23" waist, but what's with my rib cage sticking out?" OK someone explain THIS ONE to me...
This definitely tells me there's a limit to how much weight I can lose before I look like shit. It's scary touching my skin and feeling the hard THUD of my hip bone.
 
I AM NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN OR RUDE, BUT IT IS OBVIOUS YOU HAVE AN EATING DISORDER. I AM SURE YOU KNOW THIS. I AM 29, AND I PUT MYSELF THROUGH THE SAME CRAP WHEN I WAS IN MY YOUNG 20'S. IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS THAT IS WRONG IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU FEEL IS WRONG. PEOPLE WITH EATING DISORDERS CONTROL THEIR WEIGHT BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THEIR LIVES. YOU USE THE WEIGHT CONTROL TO FEEL GOOD. ULTIMATELY IT MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE CRAP. ARE YOU DEPRESSED? I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN LIKE THIS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A PSYCHOLOGIST? I FEEL WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH BUT UNFORTUNATELY ONLY YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CAUSE OF THIS IS. LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT.
ALY
 
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