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overhead lockouts vs. military presses

Cubanito17

New member
Hey guys i was wondering something one of my weak points are my shoulders. Now when I do military presses say for a triple I can do 135X3. When I do overhead lockouts(seated) I can do 180X3. How can I improve my shoulders more I mean i guess it's not the tris that are weak it's really the shoulders and I've done push presses on and off for a good 8 weeks now and I can't go past 175X3 on those. So what other good shoulder workouts are there. I've tried cuban rotations they hurt the delts to much and I was only using the olympic bar. I don't think my delts are all that weak, I do delt raises lying on an incline facing forward so I hit the rear delts with 20lb DB'sX8. What else besides military,bradford presses, seated DB shoulder presses, cuban rotations is there. And i know it's not my upper back b/c I do DB rowing bent over with 90lb DBX 6.
 
Front, side and back raises-- They may help if you have weaknesses in those areas.

Maybe the problem is that you're simply doing too much shoulder work. Many people don't do any direct shoulder work at all as they get hit heavy when benching, rowing, and almost anything else.

BTW, Cuban rotations are a good exercise. Use less weight. It's normal that an olympic bar is too heavy for you-- it's a difficult movement.

----------------

I don't mean to disrupt your thread but this has lead me to a few questions of my own:

I can Military Press about 110.
I can do Dumbell rows with 80*6

These aren't a lot lower than your lifts.....why is it I only bench like 170??

-Zulu
 
I just started doing LIGHT hammer strength presses for my delts. I used to blast military presses like you would not believe. But since i cut out all overhead pressing my bench has gone up over 100lbs. I do mainily raises. I try to get stronger on those. Mainly side and rear delts. But recently been doing militiary on the hammer strength. Beniftits of having th ebest gym in th estate of florida. I have excess to any and every piece of equipment none. Except monolift. I figure at least the machine will fill my delts with blood and i wont have to stabilize any weight right now. I am really scared of getting hurt again. One more time like last sept i will hang it up for awhile. So i just wanna be safe. And light militarys is my way of staying that way.

I figure like this your pressing for speed, max effort. You shoulders (fronts anyway) are getting major work on them. Any more heavy and your overtrainied.
 
ZZuluZ thanks I do raises from rear, sides, and front 2X6 once a week. now for the too much direct shoulder work I don't think i'm doing too much, I think i'm not doing a variation and it's messing me up see for the time i'm competing in high school meets I have to do direct shoulder work like overhead presses due to i have to clean&jerk.
Jay I do raises after april 10 i'll quit doing overhead presses and see if my bench shoots up like yours did. Like you mentioned to me once that you want me and the world to bench over 500lbs I'll get there one day and with the help of everyone on this board.
 
Jay your right one day I will be there hopefully sometime within the next 3 or 4 years. IRBD 300 does sound good and I'd like to be there pausing not touch n go, but either way bro 500 sounds better. :D
 
Cubanito17: If you want to increase your overhead pressing movement strength....then do overhead pressing movements. Do not put a lot of stock in laterals...they are not an overhead pressing movement. If you must do them....do them lightly and very low volume too.

If you want to increase your flat bench, slack off of the shoulder pressing. If you want to increase your overhead pressing strength...slack off your flat pressing. It is a must. Going from working on flat pressing movements to standing overhead pressing movements was a big change for me...big...but I am working on it.

B True
 
Out of curiosity jay, how long did it take you to get to a 600 bench? My guess is a lot more than 3-4 years....

No offence Cubanito, but I think it takes al ot more time then 3 years to hit a 500 pound bench. If you can even get there at all. At 170 pounds, I hardly see how it's possible with steriods.

JMHO man, Cheers,

-Zulu
 
Hey ZZuluZ first of all dude right now i'm 180 and gaining weight and it is possible to get to 500lb bench in 3-4 years if all i do is revolve around my training. I think anyone on here will agree with me and im trying to gain more weight and then i'll cut down when i go to compete. I'll train at around 200 or so then drop down and when i go for the teen record in 165 i'll get down to that slowly
 
ZZuluZ

Its really hard to say how long it took. I have been powerlifting for about 2 1/2 years now. That is when i decided to powerlift. BUt things came easy for me. Number 1 i had trained since i was 18 years old, non stop. But actually lifted at around 13year old off and on. BUt at 25 i wanted to compete. I weighed around 200lbs but i could touch n go 435 raw before i ever competed. But my first meet i used a single poly that i could put on myself and had touble pausing weright i only got like 405 my first meet. Then i got denim and popped 450lbs after 3 months of officially powerlifting. So from feb 2000 i did 450 and now i am over 600 so do the math. 2 years. BUt i aint clean. Lets just be open here what i do (workout wise) may not come as quick fo ryou. When i started and was benching 435 i was clean as awhistle. In fact up till the 450lbs I was clean.

I didnt bench 300lbs till i was 18 or so. and i weighed 175 when i did it. At 16 i did 265 at around 160 or 165 not sure exact. At 20 i was high 300's. And by 21 or 22 i did 420. Then slacked off for a while But never went below 365 ever again. So see age wise ya'll are right on track!
 
Hey ZZuluZ first of all dude right now i'm 180 and gaining weight and it is possible to get to 500lb bench in 3-4 years if all i do is revolve around my training.

Beware of burnout and life. The burnout is self explanatory. Life, on the other hand, is more complicated. You are about to enter adulthood where you may not be able keep lifting as the focus for your life. It is possible but the odds probably aren't favorable. Now if you were 30 and planned on having your life revolve around training, the odds would be much more favorable.

That being said, as long as you can keep your training as the main focus, you very well may reach your goal. Good luck to you!
 
Good point The FNG. Every guy you see in mags and lifting BIG weight, there life and schedule revolves around training. Mine does. I mean if i have something to do i do it and skip whne need be, but everyday life , work sleep , eat , train. I figure when work is done and people go home and open a beer and chill i am lifting. And home intime to watch friends at 7:00! When i skip i look up and in the time i have chilled out , i look up and see its time i would be coming home. And have done nothing realy but sit. There is noreason why you cant train. I fyou work then go to school go in the A.M. If night school is over at 9 o clock and your job starts at 500 am then you trin late night. period. You do what you have to do.
 
Thanks jay you pretty much made the point I was trying to no matter whether I train in the day or late evening or 12 am I don't care i know I'm not gonna miss a workout. Shoot I havn't missed one this week and I have fucked up knee. As I type I have bandages around it trying to see if it heals. When I lift I put on an ace brace so I can still do things in it. I've been sick and trained I know i should take it off so I can rest more, but i feel like if I do miss a workout then I'll get sick for real. And when I train while sick an avg of 2-3 days later I'm fine b/c i sweat out my cold. It's really all about how much YOU really want it.
 
jay and I are the same age, almost to the day, I believe, I am a little bit smaller than Jay, and I have only been powerlifting for 7 months, but I will throw in my two cents for another perspective on how long it takes to get to 500.

In July 2001, I entered my first bench meet weighing 215 lbs, not having trained as a powerlifter ever in my life, and benched 365 wearing an Inzer poly blast shirt. I put up 450 before the end of 2001, having lost a month of training due to a horrible vasectomy incident, which nearly caused me to bleed to death in September/October. A word of caution to the huddled masses, don't go in for an elective surgery while on the gear. It causes weird shit to go on with your blood volume and clotting factors. I hit 475 in February 2002, and hope to put up 500 in one of my next two meets. If I don't get 5 bills this Saturday, the 16th, it will only be because they changed the shirt rules on us. I will be lifting again in May, and 500 will fall, in the 220 class. If I get it on the 16th, it will be in the 242 class.

If I get 500 Saturday, then you could say that I got to 500 in 8 months. But I have been lifting weights for almost 10 years, and could bench 365 paused, before I ever took up powerlifting. So it is hard to say. I benched 255 while weighing 155 in high school. Only working out during football season. If I had taken up powerlifting and used Westside from the time I was 17 until now, Hell, I might be up around or over 600 myself. But I did not do that, and we will see where I am at in 5 or 10 years.

Cubanito, 500 in 3 years will be a tough chore. Maybe you can do it, maybe not, but you won't know till you try. It is much easier for me to say I will bench 500 this year, or for Jay to say I will bench 650 this year than it is for a 275 lb bencher to say I will bench 500 in 3 years. That is because for Jay and me, those particular numbers are right around the corner. Do what you want, but if I was benching 275, I would not be able to think about anything except for joining that 300 club, if I did 300, I would break my neck getting to 325, then 350 and so forth. You need to see yourself as a 500, 600, 700 lb man, but you also need to seek intermediate goals.

I have set a lifetime goal of a 600 bench, a 800 lb squat and a 550 deadlift. But the closer I get to a 500 lbs bench, the more I think, I need to punch that number up. I am sure that the day I bench 600 (Which will be July 4th weekend, 2003 for anyone that wants to go to Eufala Cove and witness, by the way), I will not be thinking of quitting, I will be thinking of 626, because 625 is the State and World record in the organization that puts on that meet.

I know that this was a long way around the barn, but I hope that the point gets across. Keep hammering away, have a long term goal in the back of your mind, but realize that to reach that goal, you are going to have to overcome many, many short term goals en route to getting there.

B
 
Brian you and I have simniliar training backgrounds and your right its hard to say whne you have just TRAINING itself under your belt. If i did what i do now hell theres no telling where i would be. Its that road analogy i refered to before. Its all a journey. I just lift a little before you. YOu will go down th esame roads just a little further back. BUt hell once you get around 600 gains slow down anyway. That is when you can make the pass.

Cubanito Brian is right whne i was where your at the only thing on my miond was 315lbs. 3 plates a side! Nothing else mattered. Then when 350 fell i wanted 405. Never even thought of lifting more. Those were my goals. Keep in mind you will need to be older and bigger before 500 will fall. And it will come. Theres not to many guys your age and size , hell your size doing 5 bills. So for now just lift, and when your denim gets here i am sure 300 will fall that day! Then start working to 400.
 
IRBDL,

I don't know who your post was for regarding a bad build for deadlifting, but I doubt that there is anyone here built worse for deadlifting than me. I am 5 foot 7 inches tall, short arms, big chest, big belly, normal to long torso, normal to short legs, small hands, 220 - 230 lbs, about a 49 inch chest if I blow it up, about a 36 inch waist relaxed, and I have torn both hamstrings at various times in my life.

I am under the impression that people are for the most part, either benchers, or deadlifters and never the twain shall meet, except for Obradavich. It just seems like compact people bench better, and longer limbed people deadlift better. For a true powerlifter, it is much better to be a good deadlifter and adequate bencher, than the other way around. If I am a much better bencher than you, I might outbench you if you are in my class by 100 lbs, and I have smoked your ass. Really left you in my dust, until we deadlift and you pull 750 while I am struggling with 450, then you jump 200 lbs ahead of me and get my trophy.

B
 
That's very interesting Brian, we seem to have a similar build...of course I haven't weightlifted very long and I still only way 160 at 5'7....but I have completely the opposite problem you do. I DL almost twice my bench, and yet I have short arms.

-Zulu
 
Guys I'm not saying that I'm gonna bench 500 this year unless I go "that way" I'm saying that within about 4 years I feel i will get it, whether or not I go that way. I know right now my goal is to pause 265 at the meet Saturday.
 
Zulu- I think it's us skinny lil bastards. I only weigh 147-149 at the moment and I can go in the gym on a bad day and hit 4 plates on deads. Yet, if I go in on a great day to bench raw, I might hit a 220-225. Deads come easy to me, benching doesn't. BTW, I'm 5'7" too and you guys pointed out I had pretty long arms in my pic, so I guess I do.
 
Hmm, I never thought of myself of skinny (I don't think I've ever seen more than my upper abs) but I guess by most PL definitions that must be it. I can see how having a bigger belly aids in the squat and bench but not in the DL!

BTW, Cubanito, even if you took all the steriods made on earth you would not bench 500 this year. I think gains are just coming easy to you know as you've started WestSide.

I'm pretty sure no one benches 500 by training WestSide for 3 years.

Maybe I'm way off.

-Zulu
 
Smaller waist makes for better lever when doing deadlifts.

B True
 
Ya know what? You could take all the steroids known to man and that still doesn tmean you will ever bench 500 lbs. I know gys who stay on year round and cant bench 500. I knwo guys who juiced for years and there just at 500lbs. Its somthing that will get you close but it isnt a for sure. Keep it in mind whne you turn to the dark side! If all i took was drugs to really take a lifter beyond world record lifts then i would be pulling ....well alot more then i do!
 
Very true B fold....I can imagine it' like pulling a barbell about a foot away.

Jay, I'm confused...have you ever done steriods? Are you doing any now?

I still think it takes good genetics to bench 400+ pounds. Even with a lot of dedication, many people will never get there.

-Zulu
 
ZZuluZ:mad: dude your not getting what I'm saying I guess. I said this year I KNOW I WON'T MAKE IT TO 500 EVEN IF I GO THE DARK SIDE I was saying that in 4 years WHETHER OR NOT I go that way I'll hit 500lbs.
 
LOL, I'm just dense man. Not flaming you bro... no disrespect intended in my posts; I just misunderstood you. And hey, even if you did say that....don't let me stop you man. You seem very motivated, and that's key.

Cheers,

-Zulu
 
Zzulu,

don't ask questions like that posted to Jay on a public forum. I don't know if he will answer you or not, but that is not the way to discover what you are looking for.

Jay benches over 600 lbs. He can tell you or not tell you himself regarding his supplements. If you get to know someone real well and talk to them somewhere private you will have a better answer to your questions. And to all that are interested, I get all my gains from GNC


B
 
Thanks Brian.

After re reading my post i worded it wrong.

" If all it took was juice to make record lifts then, well....i would pull more then i do!"

Thats what i meant to say.

ZZuluZ i just answered ya little bro!
 
ZZuluZ my bad it's just me goin back to other forums readin ur replys i'm startin to think that you doubt me for everything and i was gettin mad. I have a bad temper so my bad. And BRAIN is right no one really wants everyone to know their business when it comes to juicing or anything like that. If you really want to know maybe once you know him personally and juice doesn't do that much for you unless you're really training hard and eating right either way.
 
Damn....that never occured to me, I'm really sorry guys-- my apologies.

And sorry for harassin' ya Cubanito.

Cheers guys,

-A really dense Zulu
 
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