One in seven Britons believe Holocaust was exaggerated

[anabolicmd]

One in seven Britons says Holocaust is exaggerated

Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Friday January 23, 2004
The Guardian

One British person in seven believes that the scale of the Nazi Holocaust against Jews is exaggerated, according to an opinion poll published today.

The poll was conducted to coincide with Holocaust Memorial Day next Tuesday.

The poll, conducted by ICM with 1,007 adults in England, Scotland and Wales, found 37% agreeing that Jewish people make a positive contribution to the political, social and cultural life of the country, with 20% disagreeing. Similar proportions were revealed in answer to a question whether Jews have too much influence - 18% agreeing, 47% disagreeing. Asked whether a British Jew would make an equally acceptable prime minister as a member of any other faith, 53% agreed and 18% disagreed - 11% strongly.

The final question asked whether the scale of the Nazi Holocaust had been exaggerated, with 15% agreeing it had been - 10% strongly - and 70% disagreeing, 62% strongly.

Mr Blunkett said: "It means people are prepared to set aside not only the evidence, but the overwhelming emotion that goes with it. They delude themselves into believing that the Nazis are not what we know them to be and this is very depressing."

Nevertheless, Jewish academics said the findings indicated that anti-semitism in Britain was lower than in the US or other parts of Europe.

::End of article::

Ok, according to Jewish academics the number of Holocaust doubters is greater in the US. Personally, I dont doubt that it happened, but Im curious how others may feel.

 

[XBiker]

So, how many of them were actually there, anabozic?

 

[chewyxrage]

poll of 1,000 people = not very accurate

 

[anabolicmd]

So, how many of them were actually there, anabozic?

In the holocaust? Between 5 500 000 and 6 000 000, but Im not an expert or anything.

 

[anabolicmd]

poll of 1,000 people = not very accurate

Actually, it was 1,007 and the survey was conducted for the Jewish Chronicle, so I think it must have been done correctly.

 

[chewyxrage]

just seems like a small sample of the population is all.

 

[XBiker]

Of the people polled...

It's REALLY obvious you're not an expert.

 

[anabolicmd]

Of the people polled...

It's REALLY obvious you're not an expert.

Well, thats why I posted it for discussion, to see how others are thinking on this.

 

[XBiker]

Did they perhaps do a poll on if the yanks actually went to the moon (that's a scam as well) and as to the real whereabouts of Area 51 (also a scam)

 

[chewyxrage]

Personally I don't see how someone can deny the holocaust happened unless they are just uneducated about it.

 

[bwood]

any student of history knows
that history varies with the
political goals of those in power...

why cant that happen here???

because hebrews are involved???

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Interesting, considering the massive role England had in getting Jews out of Germany/Poland/Austria/wherever Germany invaded.

 

[Robert Jan]

These are not holocaust denyers, they say it was EXAGGERATED.

and it was.

Footage of human rights violations by the nazis have been artificially produced, people were caught doing that. There is no doubt the Jewish people capitalise(d) on it.

Yes the holocaust did happen and yes it was horrible but people are very inconsistent in their disgust. Other horrible histories are hardly remembered, or even widely known

 

[the nature boy]

any student of history knows
that history varies with the
political goals of those in power...

why cant that happen here???

agreed.

 

[Bullit]

the survey was conducted for the Jewish Chronicle, so I think it must have been done correctly.

Why?

I could easily see a case where a Jewish publication would have a reason to skew numbers to the negative side. Contorversy brings issues to the forefront, where agreement lets them fade away.

 

[danielson]

why is it theholocaust seems to on reference the numbers of jewish victims....

and could someone explain why the term racism isnt used instead of anti-semitism

 

[biteme]

How come no one ever talks about the MILLION chinese people the Japanese slaughtered in Ninijan (sp?) during WWI? And how the Japanese government just pretends it never happened?

It's the reason why we dropped the bomb on them. To save American lives, and to stop the SLAUGHTER of chinese men, women and children.

Don't U know that it is because the Jews are Gods chosen people. All of the other ethnic groups that have been the victims of genocide on a far larger scale, do not count, because they are just regular people.

The Japanese made Pol Pot look like Santa Claus in Cambodia.

-= nav =-

 

[EnderJE]

why is it theholocaust seems to on reference the numbers of jewish victims....

and could someone explain why the term racism isnt used instead of anti-semitism

I'm guessing that its the same reason why its specified as "violence against women" rathen then just domestic violence.

I don't want to say it shows favouritism to one group over another, but I can't really think of anything else right now.

 

[Mandinka2]

How come no one ever talks about the MILLION chinese people the Japanese slaughtered in Ninijan (sp?) during WWI? And how the Japanese government just pretends it never happened?

It's the reason why we dropped the bomb on them. To save American lives, and to stop the SLAUGHTER of chinese men, women and children.

The Japanese made Pol Pot look like Santa Claus in Cambodia.

-= nav =-

Ha! That's nothin - who knows the number of Vietnamese killed during the Vietnam war? Now how many G.I. s?
History is always written by the victors - get used to it.

 

[atlantabiolab]

These are not holocaust denyers, they say it was EXAGGERATED.

and it was.

Footage of human rights violations by the nazis have been artificially produced, people were caught doing that. There is no doubt the Jewish people capitalise(d) on it.

Yes the holocaust did happen and yes it was horrible but people are very inconsistent in their disgust. Other horrible histories are hardly remembered, or even widely known

Newsflash: "We actually agree."

 

[IhateOsama]

It's funny how the greastest mass killing ever is upstaged because they were not considered people of god even though many of them were.

This is only one fifth of the dead.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB5A.GIF

Stalin killed 43,000,000 people, from 1929-1953

And that's a fact! No propaganda can clense the mass graves from the truth.

Face it the holocaust is overblown only millions died not tens of millions, but it gets the most press because of bias.

I wonder who writes the history books in America?

 

[SanFrancisconewb]

I hate all these people who come out of the Holocaust museum with thte pins that say "never again" as if it hasn't happened since. 1 million people were slaughtered in Rwanda . One fucking million and that was 1995! Most people have no idea it ever happened.
And the Khamaruge (sp?) killed millions in Cambodia. A friend of mine watched his entire village get massacred but stayed alive because he was underneath dead bodies. We can thank our role in the Vietnam War for that one.

 

[danielson]

I'm guessing that its the same reason why its specified as "violence against women" rathen then just domestic violence.

I don't want to say it shows favouritism to one group over another, but I can't really think of anything else right now.

agreed....i can;t think of any other reason why either
it always irritates the hell outta me when i see situations where this is put into practise

fr instance, some TV guys were doing a report on that KKK website (which can go unmentioned) and someone from the anti-defamation league came out and rightly said it was anti-semetic.

he completely FAILED to menion it was racist as well. didnt come up once. had the roles been reversed and it was the anti-nazi party or some equal rights group they would have made damned sure they applied to generic term to all those afflicted, but these guys just didnt seem to give shit about the language they were using to describe minorities.

all this clannish secterianism bugs the fuck outta me...10,000 years of evolution and most of the earth is still retarded as ever. people give muslims shit for not doing things outside of their groups (with the infidels) when jews do the same with gentiles hal the time and a hell of a lot of the other major faihs do so too, even the supposedly tolerant ones (hinduism sill ahs these vilage dickwads following the caste system even though its illegal)

 

[glennds]

congratulations anabolic! you got people to make some antisemitic comments!

anyone notice how many of these threads anabolic makes? i think it is at least two a week. anabolic, you need to spend more time on your flabby body than trying to stir things up on a chatboard.

 

[WalkingBeast]

why is it theholocaust seems to on reference the numbers of jewish victims....

and could someone explain why the term racism isnt used instead of anti-semitism

Arent jews always the victims?

 

[chrisoh]

I agree with everyone who posted on here, the holocaust was greatly exaggerated and there have been slaughters FAR worse, compared to the deaths of the chinese, rwandans, etc..., the jews had easy deaths in those concentration camps.

 

[chewyxrage]

whenever i read about attempted genocide or extermination i am curious as to how many times this has been attempted in history of man......seems to me that it has happened a ridiculous amount of times....

does anyone know a good book or website that has some info on this?

 

[chewyxrage]

1000 people could be slaughtered by rebels in africa tomorrow and that's page 59 news, but 3 israeli's die from a suicide bomb, and that's front page news EVERYWHERE for a WEEK.

-= nav =-

true that

 

[GoldenDelicious]

wow this is some really surprising news

jewish influence on media coverage is widely known

jewish use of their media clout to stifle negative press about their actions in palestine (which mirror some aspects of the holocaust) is apparent (if not so widely known)

of course in light of this it is such a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge, gaping stretch for people to believe that some jewish powers that be could use this same muscle to influence modern perception of the holocaust

i am fucking amazed at this result, i really am

why am i thinking of a wolf crying?

 

[atlantabiolab]

To be fair, the reason why Jewish atrocities have greater coverage over others of equal or greater measure, is due to the concerted efforts of Jewish advocates. It is no mystery that Jewish organizations are very influential and well-funded, so their efforts to make known their persecutions have been recognized.

The numerous other atrocities in history do not have the well organized groups to demand any notice of the general public.

Jewish interest groups are fighting for their self-interests, and these other groups need to act similarly, if they wish to have their histories known also. Many of the peoples who have been wronged have no voice, not because their words are not being heard, but because their own people are not fighting for recognition. No one else is going to do your work for you.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

To be fair, the reason why Jewish atrocities have greater coverage over others of equal or greater measure, is due to the concerted efforts of Jewish advocates. It is no mystery that Jewish organizations are very influential and well-funded, so their efforts to make known their persecutions have been recognized.

The numerous other atrocities in history do not have the well organized groups to demand any notice of the general public.

Jewish interest groups are fighting for their self-interests, and these other groups need to act similarly, if they wish to have their histories known also. Many of the peoples who have been wronged have no voice, not because their words are not being heard, but because their own people are not fighting for recognition. No one else is going to do your work for you.

more easily said than done. inevitably the interests of those who control the news will conflict with some of those voices

i wonder why most believe it has been exaggerated; is there a general belief that jews control much of the media, or do people instinctively recognise misinformation for what it is? anitsemitism perhaps?

 

[atlantabiolab]

more easily said than done. inevitably the interests of those who control the news will conflict with some of those voices

i wonder why most believe it has been exaggerated; is there a general belief that jews control much of the media, or do people instinctively recognise misinformation for what it is? anitsemitism perhaps?

The problem with your argument, and all conspiratorial arguments, is that it supports itself with correlations.

Do Jewish people have a large influence in media and big business? Of course, but this correlation does not directly equate to "control".

How many Cambodian organizations do you see attempting to have the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge publicized? How many Ukrainian organizations do you see attempting to have the atrocities of Stalin publicized?

Very few.

The benefit of Jews is their solidarity, something many modern ethnicities have done away with.

 

[danielson]

To be fair, the reason why Jewish atrocities have greater coverage over others of equal or greater measure, is due to the concerted efforts of Jewish advocates. It is no mystery that Jewish organizations are very influential and well-funded, so their efforts to make known their persecutions have been recognized.

The numerous other atrocities in history do not have the well organized groups to demand any notice of the general public.

Jewish interest groups are fighting for their self-interests, and these other groups need to act similarly, if they wish to have their histories known also. Many of the peoples who have been wronged have no voice, not because their words are not being heard, but because their own people are not fighting for recognition. No one else is going to do your work for you.

Were this a case of renovation of an urban ghetto which is exclusivly jewish for instance i would agree with you...but this transcends that

However this isn't. Its racism, the ultimate consequnce of which is eradication of a ethnic group. It is absolutley necessary for all the minorities to be united against anyone like this, not only for the obvious moral reasons but because if you allow groups like this to cherry pick off minorities, not only do you implicitly condone their actions purely because thy dont affect you, but also you create less resistance to them when they inevitably turn their attention against you

it is also HUGELY hippocritical to use an emotional arguement against the attemped genocide of the Jews, and then turn your nose up against any hint of similar feelings against non-jews. Extending that, effectivly incarcerate a populace (palistinians) and have warfare availible for theit genocide destroys any emotional arguements you could use against the holocaust.

were the genocide to happen again, who would stand up for you when you still see the persecution of others as un-important. self interest in this case is not only immoral but it is conter-productive against wiping out facism/racism

 

[atlantabiolab]

Were this a case of renovation of an urban ghetto which is exclusivly jewish for instance i would agree with you...but this transcends that

However this isn't. Its racism, the ultimate consequnce of which is eradication of a ethnic group. It is absolutley necessary for all the minorities to be united against anyone like this, not only for the obvious moral reasons but because if you allow groups like this to cherry pick off minorities, not only do you implicitly condone their actions purely because thy dont affect you, but also you create less resistance to them when they inevitably turn their attention against you

it is also HUGELY hippocritical to use an emotional arguement against the attemped genocide of the Jews, and then turn your nose up against any hint of similar feelings against non-jews. Extending that, effectivly incarcerate a populace (palistinians) and have warfare availible for theit genocide destroys any emotional arguements you could use against the holocaust.

were the genocide to happen again, who would stand up for you when you still see the persecution of others as un-important. self interest in this case is not only immoral but it is conter-productive against wiping out facism/racism

Your argument is true in the moral sense. But support for the persecuted does not equate always with forceful action. It can mean financial support, or weapons support. If this occurs in your own political arena, where the legislations or actions directly affect your country, then by all means it is in your self-interest to act as strongly as necessary. If this occurs in countries over seas, across borders, then the duty to act diminishes. It can be reasonably judged when occurances have the chance of directly affecting you and when they do not.

Because atrocities occur in Cambodia does not mean that we should send American soldiers over to this country to die for an interest that is not their own. Their deaths are for naught, their families deprived of a loved one, a provider, and it provided them with no benefit (protection, security, freedom, etc.). If the opposite were true, then we would be sending our men to their deaths all over the world, in much greater number than currently. Men fight to protect their self-interests, not the self-interests of others. If this were not true, then feudalism would be a moral form of government.

I disagree with the idea that "all minorities be united". This tribalism is a major problem in this world, the effective balkanization of peoples into "them" and "us". People should be against all forms of evils, not because it is directed against the "group" which you happen to be apart of, but because it is against the smallest part of society, the truest minority: the individual. You attack evils, not because it may attack your "group" but simply because it may attack "you".

 

[GoldenDelicious]

The problem with your argument, and all conspiratorial arguments, is that it supports itself with correlations.

Do Jewish people have a large influence in media and big business? Of course, but this correlation does not directly equate to "control".

How many Cambodian organizations do you see attempting to have the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge publicized? How many Ukrainian organizations do you see attempting to have the atrocities of Stalin publicized?

Very few.

The benefit of Jews is their solidarity, something many modern ethnicities have done away with.

i am not presenting an argument, i am presenting a point of view.

i do not want to debate the morality of solidarity and its use to further self interests

the result of the survey in question returned the finding that 80% of the study group believed that accounts of the holocaust were exaggerated.

many factors may have contributed to this social perception, one of them being the "conspiratorial" idea that the very victims of the holocaust control the media, and hence the historical representation of the event. therefore, it would be perhaps unwise to accept this representation as absolute truth, especially given the duplicity and ruthless behaviour of many jewish powers in dealing with the palestinian (and many other) issues.

anyway im getting carried away with bullshit. the people who were surveyed are either right or wrong, and their perceptions may or may not be erronous due to the efforts of various jewish groups. who cares.

one point though- you say "The benefit of Jews is their solidarity" when in fact it was almost their undoing. and may still be.

 

[anabolicmd]

congratulations anabolic! you got people to make some antisemitic comments!

anyone notice how many of these threads anabolic makes? i think it is at least two a week. anabolic, you need to spend more time on your flabby body than trying to stir things up on a chatboard.

Whats your point Glands?

 

[danielson]

Your argument is true in the moral sense. But support for the persecuted does not equate always with forceful action. It can mean financial support, or weapons support. If this occurs in your own political arena, where the legislations or actions directly affect your country, then by all means it is in your self-interest to act as strongly as necessary. If this occurs in countries over seas, across borders, then the duty to act diminishes. It can be reasonably judged when occurances have the chance of directly affecting you and when they do not.

Because atrocities occur in Cambodia does not mean that we should send American soldiers over to this country to die for an interest that is not their own. Their deaths are for naught, their families deprived of a loved one, a provider, and it provided them with no benefit (protection, security, freedom, etc.). If the opposite were true, then we would be sending our men to their deaths all over the world, in much greater number than currently. Men fight to protect their self-interests, not the self-interests of others. If this were not true, then feudalism would be a moral form of government.

I disagree with the idea that "all minorities be united". This tribalism is a major problem in this world, the effective balkanization of peoples into "them" and "us". People should be against all forms of evils, not because it is directed against the "group" which you happen to be apart of, but because it is against the smallest part of society, the truest minority: the individual. You attack evils, not because it may attack your "group" but simply because it may attack "you".

i agree on your positions about morality in a global arena, it isnt always practical, appropriate or possible for a government to send its troops to die in another country

however if a country were to invade another due to its ex-pats being persecuted and failed to even give any support to any other minorities being oppressed when they easily could, then they would lose a lot of respect and sympathy. a good example would be the muslims charities giving aid to afghanistan yet failing to ensure any of that aid reached hindu minororties who were being persecuted (forced to wear armbands showing their hindu's) and not even plea for them to get aid

this is essentially what the anti-deffamation league did. talk costs nothing...yet on a news report about stormfront they repeatedly failed to mention racism.

i have nothing against them protecting their own interests...but to criticise one group of people for opressing them and to then opress the palestinians shows the opression was never a problem for them.

and yes...we should all be united. not everyone is, and its pathetic that those opressed by racists are in turn racist themselves yet expect sympathy and handouts for it (i.e. whites and blacks ganging up to beat asians and orientals)...

on a domestic setting the arguement is all moral IMHO

 

[2Thick]

congratulations anabolic! you got people to make some antisemitic comments!

Where do you see anti-Jew comments?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

jews are sensitive

 

[milo hobgoblin]

..............

over exaggerated to the extreme.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Does it *really* make a difference if it was 2, 4 or 6 million? As to the legitimacy of the numbers, Germans were excellent record keepers.

The Jewish Holocaust is different because it remains the ONLY time where an industrialized / first world power did this DURING A WAR AT THE EXPENSE OF THE WAR EFFORT.

Comparisons to Rwanda, Cambodia etc are silly - those were trbal wars in third world countries. Comparsions to Russia and Japan also fail because much of those slaughters abated during the acutal war.

Gernamy's anti-Jew Holocuast remains the only time that something of this magnitude was committed at the expense of the war effort. Resoruces were pulled off the front line to ramp up the slaughter. German industry built gas chambers instead of tanks and guns. Germany ran off the best atomic scientists: Einstein, Oppenheimmer etc.

Even as the war atarted to slip away, the Holocuast continued.

That's why this one is different. Not more, or less tragic than any other slaughter - they are equal in tragedy - just different and not a good comparison to others.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

...............

Matt I dont think anyone is saying that a "holocaust" of some magnitude dient happen... its the fact that so much of it has been manipulated to highlight the suffering of the jews.

They have been caught many times doctoring photographs...and evidence to make it look much worse than it really was.

and to what end???

My people of the centuries have been persecuted for many reasons.... but none of them have dragged it out for as long or have manipulated it it to the extenet as the jews have.

Any atrocity like this is horrible... but to use an even like this to further your own cultural ends... is an evil unto itself.


More and more people are starting to see this and the jews dont realize how much damage they are doing to themselves in the long run. As more people find out that the truth is not what they've made it out to be.... they will starty pointing fingers again... and unfortunately it will be at the jews...

many of whom had no part in this.

 

[BO-DEN]

i dont think the act was exagerated but definetly the way irael and jews exploit they'r persicution to be let off the hook for the evil they do.

and if you say anything against them you will quickly here the same reply with the same two thing in it....
"6 MILLION" "nazi hitler"


i think that they have made they'r persicution into a scapegoat and im not worried about being labled politicly incorrect or anti semetic


BO-DEN

 

[2Thick]

Re: ...............

Matt I dont think anyone is saying that a "holocaust" of some magnitude dient happen... its the fact that so much of it has been manipulated to highlight the suffering of the jews.

They have been caught many times doctoring photographs...and evidence to make it look much worse than it really was.

and to what end???

My people of the centuries have been persecuted for many reasons.... but none of them have dragged it out for as long or have manipulated it it to the extenet as the jews have.

Any atrocity like this is horrible... but to use an even like this to further your own cultural ends... is an evil unto itself.


More and more people are starting to see this and the jews dont realize how much damage they are doing to themselves in the long run. As more people find out that the truth is not what they've made it out to be.... they will starty pointing fingers again... and unfortunately it will be at the jews...

many of whom had no part in this.

 

[2Thick]

... or anti semetic

No such thing s anti-semitic. Palestinians are semitic, too.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: ...............

Matt I dont think anyone is saying that a "holocaust" of some magnitude dient happen... its the fact that so much of it has been manipulated to highlight the suffering of the jews.

There's probably some truth to that. No doubt teh Jews have been very vocal about it.

They have been caught many times doctoring photographs...and evidence to make it look much worse than it really was.

and to what end???

I'm not really sure why they would do this. There are enough legitimate instances of atrocities as to make extra superfluous.

My people of the centuries have been persecuted for many reasons.... but none of them have dragged it out for as long or have manipulated it it to the extenet as the jews have.

Well, remember it has been less than 60 years. There are a lot of survivors still around. Additionally, many Jews were prominent busienss people and successes before this was done - businesses, properties were seized and re-appropriated. Rothschilds were killed, Bunzl's etc. Prominent families.

The Russian slaughter was basically killing peasants - tragic, of course, but peasants just die and fade away. Rich people were killed and their families had resources to make an issue of it. it wasn;t a tribal slaughter or a farm workers sluaghter like in China or Russia.

It was urban, prominent captains of industry too.

Any atrocity like this is horrible... but to use an even like this to further your own cultural ends... is an evil unto itself.

Whuch cultural ends? The state of Israel? Taht was a US/UK creation....maybe there is some stuff I am overlooking here, but which cultural ends do you mean?

More and more people are starting to see this and the jews dont realize how much damage they are doing to themselves in the long run. As more people find out that the truth is not what they've made it out to be.... they will starty pointing fingers again... and unfortunately it will be at the jews...

I've talked to some Jews about that, and they typically say "we've been here for thousands of eyars, longer than any surviving culture. We'll be fine". They're a fatalistic people.

There is truth to that. They outlasted Egypt, Rome, the Holy Roman empire, the Nazis, etc. They'll probably outlast Christianity and even America.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

...........

To what cultural end...

I dont really know without sounding like some sort of conspiracy nut.

I have my own personal beleifs about this... but I was hoping for an enlightened answer from you.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: ...........

To what cultural end...

I dont really know without sounding like some sort of conspiracy nut.

I have my own personal beleifs about this... but I was hoping for an enlightened answer from you.

Well, you can point to Jews in many different industries as becoming extremely successful - entertainment always jumps out as a big one (Redstone, Spielberg, Geffen etc) but they have become successful even in the Arab dominated oil industry (Leon Hess).

Is there some kind of action planned? I really don't know what to think. If Israel wanted to increase its territory, couldn;t it easily do so? There is no such thing as "Muslim unity", so in reality, if Israel went on the offensive, Muslim countries would be overrun.

If Israel really runs the US government, the US would stand by and let it happen, right? or even worse, the US would assist Israel, in which case no nation would stand a chance. Israel could kill ALL the Palestinains in a year, yet they have not. The US has restrained them and tried aggressively (too much?) to create peace in the region. Clinton urged Barak to make massive concessions.

Yet the US has fought to defend Muslims/Arab many times (granted we were protecting our oil interests too) - such as Gulf War 1. Much of our efforts in Kosovo went to protect Muslims as well.

There are a lot of Jews in the government. There are a lot of wealthy, prominent Jews. Does that add up to conspiracy?

If it does, tell me how.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Re: Re: ...............

Well, remember it has been less than 60 years. There are a lot of survivors still around. Additionally, many Jews were prominent busienss people and successes before this was done - businesses, properties were seized and re-appropriated. Rothschilds were killed, Bunzl's etc. Prominent families.

The Russian slaughter was basically killing peasants - tragic, of course, but peasants just die and fade away. Rich people were killed and their families had resources to make an issue of it. it wasn;t a tribal slaughter or a farm workers sluaghter like in China or Russia.

<cough cough> the russians only killed peasants? Recall the Bolshevik revolution.....?

A lot of it is about spin though. The holocaust was undoubtebly horrible, but Russians have committed many attrocities, as have the Japanese at WWII time. Funny also how Napolean ravaged europe causing very high death tolls (not just directly related to combat) and he is regarded as a hero of sourts in modern France.

Ultimately I think it is the brutal coldness towards humanity that makes people so fascinated with the holocaust. That and numerous other factors (we easily forget abou the japanase, Camodians and rawanda-Congo incidents for some reason).

 

[milo hobgoblin]

...........

I guess if you look at their relative representation in any population in which they exist vs. the high percentage of power they hold... you can draw your own conclusion.

even your post implies that many jews hold positions of power in both the media and government.. yet they are almost a non existant portion of the population.

Some would say that this is a result of cultural influences (i.e. they are fanatical about education and very ambitious)

Some would argue that its a defense mechanism... having some control in areas that are most sensitive to persecution.

i.e
If Jews truly controlled the media and had even a moderate government representation in pre WWII Germany... Hitler probably would have never come into power and there most certainly would have never been any kind of holocaust.

Look at much of the anti-racist... pro diversity propaganda in America... it isnt generated by blacks who suffer the most at its hands... it genererated by the Jewish culture.

someone who is simple minded could easily be lead into a fanatical belief of any of the above scenarios.... to the point of deadly persecution one way or another...

i.e. hate crime legislation vs anti-semetic and anti black extremeist groups.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: Re: Re: ...............

<cough cough> the russians only killed peasants? Recall the Bolshevik revolution.....?

That is the same power toppling that has gone on over and over in human history. I was referring specifically to Stalinist Russia.

Stalin did not go after the wealthy (such as they were) in Russia, just those who would not go along with collectivization and similar imperatives.

 

[BO-DEN]

Re: Re: Re: ...............

(we easily forget abou the japanase, Camodians and rawanda-Congo incidents for some reason).

because thies people dont push it up your nose every time they speak about anything

i saw a comerisal asking christians to help pledge money to send jews to irael... asking for money to "help repair the damage done and the scattering of our (jewish iraelies) people"

lol they even showed photos of the Holocuast.. pictures of starved and beaten people.... lmao how crude and distasteful

they have exploited themselves to such gross a point.



BO-DEN

 

[collegiateLifter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...............

That is the same power toppling that has gone on over and over in human history. I was referring specifically to Stalinist Russia.

Stalin did not go after the wealthy (such as they were) in Russia, just those who would not go along with collectivization and similar imperatives.

things do get hazy around this point as hitler certainly thought he was simply restoring power to germans and taking it back from the jews. (Both Lenin and Hitler were 'rescuing' their countries from a class of people who had 'destroyed' it.)

I'm not an expert on Stalin so he perhaps didn't go after the wealthy (though i have trouble dreaming up any wealthy russians who weren't imperially wealthy or part of the upper Party, with the former being dead and/or exiled and the latter being considered threats), but as a paranoid premier he definately did relentlessly go after many powerful men-- his top military brass and advisors.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

LOL

during the purges STalin killed 36000 of his own Officer corp. One of the MAIn erasons they lost so horribly (esp. in tank wearfare) during the first half of the Easter front wars was due to a complete lack of competent leadership

Stalin murdered tens of thousands of the Aristocratic land owners from the dyas of the Czars in his efforts to restore land to the "state".

But of course Stalin being the "winner" in such endeavors none of us have heard any of this.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: LOL

during the purges STalin killed 36000 of his own Officer corp. One of the MAIn erasons they lost so horribly (esp. in tank wearfare) during the first half of the Easter front wars was due to a complete lack of competent leadership

Stalin murdered tens of thousands of the Aristocratic land owners from the dyas of the Czars in his efforts to restore land to the "state".

But of course Stalin being the "winner" in such endeavors none of us have heard any of this.

Killing officers is par for the course in the russain military since way before Stalin. It was accepted as normal in feudalism for kings to do that. That's the point I keep coming back to - the Holocaust was unusual because many of the wealthy were killed and had their property seized.

The Russian arsitocratic land seizures are the normal course iof action in a Communist country. Germany, despite the name "National Socialist" did not nationalize ALL industry nor did the government take ownership of ALL property as they di in Russia.

The Gemans just re-appropriated it from people that were already doing well with it.

That's the difference - it would be like teh US governmetn seizing Microsoft and Wal Mart and putting someone else in charge. The Russian example is that those entities would be nationalized,which has happened 100000 times in history.

 

[Sebby]

One in three Americans think Burger King is a food group. Whats your point anabolicmd? People are stupid.


Not that I am bitter, but the British take credit for all Canadian led attacks including D-Day, and Dieppe. They are just a bazar group of people over there.

 

[Spartacus]

a lot of old history bros in this thread java

 

[javaguru]

Probably 3 million jews Vs. 6 million died in the holocaust, that's based on estimates of legitimate historians. These aren't publiized because nobody wants to give ammunition to the people who claim it never happened.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The 6 million number had been floating around since the end of WWI, not II.

It also may have been used to rouse American sentiments towards rescuing the doomed Jews during WWII-

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/videos/09_readers_digest.wmv

 

[Spartacus]

"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." -Iosef

 

[Gambino]

It also may have been used to rouse American sentiments towards rescuing the doomed Jews during WWII-

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/videos/09_readers_digest.wmv

i don't think americans were keen on fighting for jews
from what i know fdr was ready for war but was worried the populace wouldn't approve of fighting for jews
then pearl harbor happened

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

i don't think americans were keen on fighting for jews
from what i know fdr was ready for war but was worried the populace wouldn't approve of fighting for jews
then pearl harbor happened

That was really stupid of Japan. What the hell were they thinking.

 

[Gambino]

That was really stupid of Japan. What the hell were they thinking.

stupid gamble, i guess they thought we would capitulate
ballsy, look how small the country of japan is, those imperial mofos
apparently after they made the run their was no celebration back at their aircraft carrier...all the pilots and such knew they just stirred a hornets nest

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

stupid gamble, i guess they thought we would capitulate
ballsy, look how small the country of japan is, those imperial mofos
apparently after they made the run their was no celebration back at their aircraft carrier...all the pilots and such knew they just stirred a hornets nest

Yeah it seems pointless, like it was hoped to ultimately provoke something bigger in scope later on perhaps. Tough for me to say; I never studied much of the Pacific side of the war.

 

[Gambino]

Yeah it seems pointless, like it was hoped to ultimately provoke something bigger in scope later on perhaps. Tough for me to say; I never studied much of the Pacific side of the war.

meant to knock out usa naval power in the pacific
w/o us, they could pwn new zealand, aussieville, tahiti, all that shite
coulda been huge

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

meant to knock out usa naval power in the pacific
w/o us, they could pwn new zealand, aussieville, tahiti, all that shite
coulda been huge

They had to have known we would retaliate, thus making any of their advances in the Pacific short lived. Bonzaiiiiii!!! Apparently that's as far as they thought it out, lol.

 

[Gambino]

They had to have known we would retaliate, thus making any of their advances in the Pacific short lived. Bonzaiiiiii!!! Apparently that's as far as they thought it out, lol.

lol you think they really say bonzai a lot?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

lol you think they really say bonzai a lot?

It's funny. There's a mogul run at Mich Tech's ski hill called Bonzai. Pretty treacherous.

 

[Spartacus]

i don't think americans were keen on fighting for jews
from what i know fdr was ready for war but was worried the populace wouldn't approve of fighting for jews
then pearl harbor happened

hitler's hubris motovated him to declare war on the US after pearl harbor
his whermacht had overrun most all of europe and in december 1941 he was at the gates of moscow

I wonder if he hadn't declared war on the usa how FDR would have managed to get the us involved
most all the fucks at the top during WWII were chickenshits IMO
hitler,stalin,churchill,fdr,eisenhower
all of them just a bunch of little kids in men bodies itching for a fight