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Octuplet Mom....Opinions?

javaguru

Banned
For those that haven't watched or read the news in the past few weeks...
The Octuplet Mom Speaks, and the Questions Grow - TIME
When Nadya Suleman, 33, had her eight children at a Kaiser Permanente hospital in Bellflower, California, one medical guideline had already been broken. The American Society for Reproductive Medicine recommends that a woman under the age of 35 should have no more than two embryos implanted by way of in vitro fertilization (IVF). That limit was chosen, says Sean Tipton, director of public affairs for the Society, in order to avoid multiple births through IVF which exposes both mother and offspring to significant health risks. That is merely one of several ethical, financial, psychological and medical issues that have arisen from the stunning news of the Suleman octuplets, who join the single mom's already existing brood of six children, who live with her parents in Whittier, about 18 miles southeast of downtown Los Angeles. Did she know she having so many kids? Did anyone counsel her? How did she afford this? What is her psychological profile?

This much seems certain. According to her mother, Angela Suleman, all of Nadya's 14 children were conceived through in vitro fertilization with the same sperm donor. Nadya Suleman confirmed in a TV interview that six were implanted, two of which resulted in twins. The sperm donor remains unidentified; one person ruled out was Nadya Suleman's ex-husband Marcos Gutierrez (their divorce was finalized last year). Angela Suleman told the Associated Press that her daughter opted for IVF treatment because her fallopian tubes were "plugged up," and decided to have more children so that the frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies wouldn't be destroyed. In her television interview, Nadya Suleman said that she wanted lots of children because she had grown up an only child in a dysfunctional family.

How could doctors let her bring so many babies to term? While it makes recommendations, the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, a leading organization in the field of reproductive medicine, does not have the legal power to enforce guidelines. It can only oust unethical members from its ranks. The Medical Board of California, however, does have the ability to investigate claims filed against physicians and impose sanctions. The board will be looking into whether the as-yet unnamed physician or clinic that treated Suleman violated the standard of care for the profession. Candis Cohen, spokeswoman for the medical board, says they are at the beginning of the inquiry, which could take several months to conclude. If found guilty of misconduct, the medical practitioner involved could face punishment ranging from a letter of reprimand to the surrendering of his or her medical license.

The unusual situation has prompted some experts in the bioethics and reproductive technology field to re-examine the need for more regulation of IVF treatments. "The right to reproduce isn't unlimited. You can't put children at risk. The field of reproductive medicine and fertility treatment has an absolute responsibility to look out for the children it is creating in new ways. And in this case it seems to have failed," says Arthur Caplan, chair of the Department of Medical Ethics at the University of Pennsylvania, arguing for a need for professional regulations. "[The process] should look more like adoption, requiring some evaluation of the patient, requiring some assessment of their psychological, emotional and physical abilities to raise children and some control over not trying to have too many children created all at once."

Politicians may enter the debate as well. California State Senator Sam Aanestad, a Republican, says the legislature should not be in the business of setting the standard of care in medicine, preferring that it be left to the doctors with legislative oversight — unless taxpayers' money is involved. "If it's all private funding then that's between the mother and her doctor and whoever is paying for it," says Aanestad. "But if we find that taxpayer dollars are going to be used or have been used or are going to be used in the medical care of these kids, not just the eight now but the previous six over the course of their lifetime then it is the role of government to make sure something like this does not happen again. That's not fair to the taxpayers, the people of California, who've got their own families to try to take care of."

Some experts argue, however, that these huge multiple births occur precisely because U.S. health care programs and insurance do not cover such treatments, allowing them to be defined by the free-market of patient choice. In countries like the United Kingdom, where national health insurance covers three cycles of IVF treatment, the incidence of multiple births — twins or above — occurs in 1 out of 4 cases, as opposed to 1 in 3 in the United States. "Fertility doctors often report feeling pressured by their patients to exceed the guidelines," says Judith Daar, associate dean for academic affairs at Whittier Law School and Clinical Professor of Medicine at UCI College of Medicine in Irvine, Calif. "Because IVF is largely not covered by insurance in most states if a couple mortgages their home to have a single cycle it's understandable that they'd want to maximize their opportunities for a successful outcome. There is a tension in the field between what the patients' wishes are and what the clinical guidelines suggest."

Indeed, in her first television interview, Nadya Suleman told NBC's Ann Curry on the Today show that it was her decision to have all the embryos implanted despite being told what the recommendations were. "All I wanted was children," she said. "It turned out imperfectly." She also explained six embryos were implanted in each of the IVF procedures that resulted in her previous six children. This time, apparently, all of them took and she decided to bring them all to term. Asked how she was going to care for such an enormous family, Suleman said she was returning to school to get a master's degree in counseling. She had been attending California State University when she became pregnant with the octuplets. "I'm providing myself to my children," she told Curry. "I'll stop my life for them."

Given the enormous cost and general lack of health care coverage for IVF — one cycle can cost $10,000 or more — questions have arisen about how Suleman, who previously worked as a psychiatric technician at Metropolitan State Hospital in Norwalk, Calif., earning just $625 a week, could afford such a procedure. At the time of her IVF treatments, it does not appear that Suleman was working, due to an injury sustained on the job.

Records obtained from the California Department of Industrial Relations show that Suleman received $167,908 in disability payments for a back injury suffered during a riot at the hospital where she worked on Sept. 18, 1999. The payments were made between 2002 and 2008, during which time Suleman gave birth to most of her six other children, even though she was separated from her husband during part of this time. Psychiatric evaluations of Suleman portray a well-mannered, but very depressed and anxious woman who reported severe lower back pain, which limited her ability to pick up her 15-lb. baby without first sitting down. She also had difficulty sleeping. One doctor wrote: "Since the birth of her baby, she has become very fearful that he will be kidnapped, injured, etc. She is anxious both for herself and for him, particularly in public places to the extent that 'somebody, my husband or my mother, has to take me almost everywhere.'" (The evaluation was performed when Suleman and her husband were attempting a reconciliation, which lasted for about one month.)

The documents paint a very different picture from the one put forth in the media since Suleman hired a public relations agent less than a week after the octuplets' birth. Joann Killeen, president of the Killeen Furtney Group, was hired to field book, movie, and TV offers for her client. During an interview on "Larry King Live" on Feb. 3, Killeen portrayed Suleman as a "wonderful woman." "She's smart, she's bright, she's articulate, she's well educated. She is just a delight. And I can't wait for the media to get to meet her," Killeen said. "She's a very balanced woman. She's got perspective. She really wants to tell her story."

Killeen also countered published reports that Suleman was trying to negotiate becoming a broadcast TV child care expert (NBC denied it paid for its interview with Suleman, the full version of which will air on Feb. 9). She did confirm, however, that it is Suleman's desire to pursue paying projects about the birth of the octuplets. "It's not true that she is being paid multiple millions of dollars for going on the media," Killeen told King. "She's not on welfare, has no plans on being a welfare mom, and really wants to look at every opportunity that she can to make sure that she can provide financially for the 14 children that she's responsible for now."
 
Miss Octopussy? A lying delusional sack of shit who wants everyone to pay for her insecurity, plastic surgeries and sick baby fetish, with no regards to anyone else including her kids. State workers will lose their jobs cuz the state needs $3.4 million to pay the hospital for the pregnancy.

Poster child for why forced sterilization should be legal.

Society shouldn't be PAYING someone to raise their kids for 18 years. That's not how it fucking works.

r
 
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Miss Octopussy? A lying delusional sack of shit who wants everyone to pay for her insecurity, plastic surgeries and sick baby fetish, with no regards to anyone else including her kids. State workers will lose their jobs cuz the state needs $3.4 million to pay the hospital for the pregnancy.

Poster child for why forced sterilization should be legal.

Society shouldn't be PAYING someone to raise their kids for 18 years. That's not how it fucking works.

r

So you're saying the liberal fiscal policies of California have failed? How dare you!
 

Wiminz engages in artificial insemination....has six kids

She gets welfare for three of the six...they're disabled, lives with her parents in a three bedroom house..no job

Has doctor implant remaining eight.....

eight more children...

Discuss...
 
Wiminz engages in artificial insemination....has six kids

She gets welfare for three of the six...they're disabled, lives with her parents in a three bedroom house..no job

Has doctor implant remaining eight.....

eight more children...

Discuss...

small drop in the bucket

"the bucket" = gov't pissing away countless unaccountable billions
 
Forced sterilization isn't the credited solution.
Shouldn't we be pissed at the apparent lack of regulations in the fertility clinic? Implanting 8 embryos in this lady was problematic from a financial standpoint, but it has also endangered the health of the mom and the babies.
 
Forced sterilization isn't the credited solution.
Shouldn't we be pissed at the apparent lack of regulations in the fertility clinic? Implanting 8 embryos in this lady was problematic from a financial standpoint, but it has also endangered the health of the mom and the babies.

do you know how it works?
 
There should be no such thing as unlimited social assistance.

You get knocked up and don't know who the baby daddy is once? Fine, we'll take mercy on your whore ass and hook you up with some assistance for the child's welfare. ON THE CONDITION THAT YOU RECIEVE A BIRTH CONTROL SHOT EVERY MONTH WHEN YOU SHOW UP TO GET THE CHEQUE. No shot, no help...and to hell with whether you and your little bastard starve to death on the street if you don't follow the rules.

It's time to get tough, people.
 
Within 24 hours of shitting out the kids, the first thing she did was hire a publicist. Shes unemployed, single, and lives with her parents.

Do the math.
 
I for one am sick of paying for people in general.

But nothing will happen if we as a people don't step up and do something drastic to get our governments attention and let them know that enough is way too much already.
 
she should probably be murdered with a meathook.

i say probably because i don't want to be hasty or extreme in my views.
 
I think that the clinic and the clinician should be held equally responsible for allowing this. they knew the risks that could come from implanting so many, as did she.
As I stated in other thread on this matter there should be guidelines to getting implanted. People should prove they can financially afford the children should multiple births arise. Heck there is a guideline on adoption, why not on this topic????

And yes, the mother does need to be "fixed". She has made it well known that she wants plenty of children to make up for something that she was lacking. She realizes that this is out of the norm and that she has a problem. therefore why risk the chance of her going through it again? How many kids does she need to have before people can come to a simple conclusion?

As for money she did have a job, she got hurt and had received disability for her injured back in a rather large amount dispersed in a few payments. That is how she afforded the fertility treatments. Now she is probably going to sell pics of the babies and sell her story to make a buck or two...Not shocked in the least bit.
 
the tv stations have been doing surveys and like 90% of the people said they wouldnt donate a dime. The money is not flowing in like she thought it would. They are already talking about having children's services pay her a visit once she gets home with the kids. I give it 6 months before the kids are taken from her. They showed pics of the small house she is living in and its already a mess with just 6 kids. Its a home shes "renting" from her mother. Even her own mother is digusted with what she has done.
She also appears to have some facination with Joile. She has tried to contact her at least 3 times in the past and in an interview Angelina said the lady freaks her out.
 
She also sent tons of letters to angelina over the year, got plastic surgery - and has plenty of money for invitro inseminzation, hair, manicures, video games, brand new suv, hiring a publicist.

People are losing their homes, jobs - so no wonder people are fucking pissed that she's a poster child for selfish insecure octopussy bitch who wants to use their money, so she can sit at home next 18 years figuring how else she can be like angelina - while others bust their asses 9-5 everyday.

r
 
She also sent tons of letters to angelina over the year, got plastic surgery - and has plenty of money for invitro inseminzation, hair, manicures, video games, brand new suv, hiring a publicist.

People are losing their homes, jobs - so no wonder people are fucking pissed that she's a poster child for selfish insecure octopussy bitch who wants to use their money, so she can sit at home next 18 years figuring how else she can be like angelina - while others bust their asses 9-5 everyday.

r

Worst of all, she is spreading her genes and someday each of those kids will have at least 2 kids or more. Do the math! Imagine how fast her genes are going to spread.
 
Miss Octopussy? A lying delusional sack of shit who wants everyone to pay for her insecurity, plastic surgeries and sick baby fetish, with no regards to anyone else including her kids. State workers will lose their jobs cuz the state needs $3.4 million to pay the hospital for the pregnancy.

Poster child for why forced sterilization should be legal.

Society shouldn't be PAYING someone to raise their kids for 18 years. That's not how it fucking works.

r

I get scared when I agree with you:worried:
 
Did they do reconstructive surgery? Surely she didn't push them puppies out did she? Could ya imagine the mess? Hell why she was tied up in them there stirrups i would stick my face up in der and give it a second opinion.
 
She also sent tons of letters to angelina over the year, got plastic surgery - and has plenty of money for invitro inseminzation, hair, manicures, video games, brand new suv, hiring a publicist.

People are losing their homes, jobs - so no wonder people are fucking pissed that she's a poster child for selfish insecure octopussy bitch who wants to use their money, so she can sit at home next 18 years figuring how else she can be like angelina - while others bust their asses 9-5 everyday.

r

She got the money for her frankenstein experiment from a state settlement, workers comp or something. For years people have been claiming California's entitlement programs would destroy their economy, guess who needs bailout money from the feds? The largest economy in the US....Over a million dollars the state will be paying for the birth....California pwned by crazy octuplet mom.
 
TMZ has been showing pics of what a pack rat slob she is. It's so funny. Her brand new mini-van has fast food wrappers and garbage all inside it lol. Real responsible. When's child services going to visit her??!

r
 
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