newbie in desperate need of help with 1st cycle & pct

[rockyroadiron]

To clarify my title, this is not my 1st cycle, but it is my first one in 20 years, yea, an old guy @ 43 yrs old in serious need of direction and explanation. The vernacular of steroids has changed as much as night and day since then. And to embarrass myself further, I am very new @ navigating through discussion forums of any kind so please cut me a little slack, but I'm very open to helpful criticism to get me on the right track so that I'm not just an annoyance to everybody on the boards.
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Now, let me ask the questions I need answers to. They will be old "heard it before" type questions, but here goes. I have done approx 4 short (4-7) week cycles way back in the day, including test cyp, deca, parabolin, and I believe primo. However, I never took more than one hormone per cycle. I know now that's a bad idea, unless it's maybe test e, or cyp on your 1st cycle. Now, 20 years later, I am interested in cycling again, the right way.

I want to start out moderately: 1) 500-600 mg test cyp/week for 12 weeks, injecting 2 x weekly, 2) dbol, 15-20 mg on the 5 days that I lift, or every day of the week? For the first 4-5 weeks.

Another acronym that is very new to me, sorry to say, and that is pct. Back in the early 90's, at least in the 1st gym I ever worked out in, nobody even mentioned pct, now as I read about cycling, pct is on every page. I know it is important to get the cycle right, but almost more so the pct from what I've read. The confusing part about pct for me is that you can read 10 different opinions and get as many opposing answers as to what a good pct should include and when.

I'm asking for anybody who has the time to critique my proposed cycle, including a newbie clarification of what type of pct I should incorporate. I do have nolvadex, anastrozole, and hcg, although the hcg is what I'm most uncertain about. It's called HUCOG - 10000 HP, by bharat serums and vaccines. It is a 1ml premixed version with 10000 i.u/ml. I've never seen a syringe small enough to enable 1ml to be split evenly for 40, 250 i.u. of hcg or anything for that matter.

I know this is a mouth full, but to follow up, I would be greatful for any help re: the cycle, and really how to mix, convert, and what brand of hcg to use, maybe the HUCOG is fine, I just don't know. Please someone explain this stuff in a way a newbie can understand, please.

Thanks Much,

 

[Mr. Chicago]

Insulin syringe for the hcg, could get them in 50 or 100 unit, very easy to read and measure, it's administered sub Q. Only thing I would say you need from what you have listed is some clomid. Pct is different for everyone, some go all out and some go bare bones, some fully recover and some don't. What kind of shape are you in now? Why after 20yrs you decide to hop back on?

 

[rockyroadiron]

Well, as I mentioned I'm 43 yrs old, and I thought if I'm ever going to cycle again it better be sooner than later, not getting any younger. I've continued to lift all through the last many yrs natural.

However, what really got me interested, truthfully. I went in for a long avoided physical and when I received my blood results everything was pretty good, a little low in sodium, but what really shocked me was something I wasn't even thinking about, you guessed it, my testosterone was low. I believe it was 330 ng/dl. My doc asked me if I wanted to treat it, I thought that's a dumb question, of course I want to treat anything that's too high/low in my blood panel.

He put me on test cyp, injectable form, 180 mg/week, 60 mg 3 x weekly. I didn't think much of it, but after about week 3-4 I started to notice that my lifts @ the gym were inching up abnormally. I don't mean they went through the roof, but it was enough to know that I was getting a bounce out of the trt. More importantly, my muscle bellies were filling out a bit more, a minor amount of vascularity, and my bodyfat went down, waistline was noticeably smaller. Don't want to overstate the gains, but they did come in a moderate amount, which did surprise me.

However, on the downside, after about a year @ that same dose things flattened out, actually before a year, but drastically so after a year. So I decided to get off, quit cold turkey. Three weeks later felt flatter and listless than ever. Told my doctor I went off and he concurred that it was ok to get off. What the idiot didn't tell me was that you have to get off a certain way, i.e. never prescribed any pct for me. Later on had another test cyp free blood test, and my panel came back at 250 ng/dl.

So it is a mixed bag for me. I need to learn the correct method for pct, my doc sure didn't know jack about it, but on the other side of the coin, I would like to do some cycles as safely as possible and see what I still got in me when I have all my ducks in a row, proper stack, and a clear understanding of what I need and when to use it for a successful pct.

Those four single hormone cycles mentioned in my 1st post obviously were not the best choice. It was really a matter of what was available in my gym @ the time. I must say though, even as ignorant as I was then (and still am), those cycles did produce some pretty good gains. I wont bore you with numbers, because I know that whatever I was able to accomplish, there's always other guys out there that can wipe the floor with me in what they can lift.

I do think I have some good gains to make, but want to be sure I'm using the right combo of hormones, and the proper pct.

That is where I stand @ this point. If you have any other tips, pointers re: my proposed cycle, especially how to do a proper pct ( my weakest area of insight), i.e. proper syringe, converting cc's, and ml's, good brand of hcg, etc, I would be extremely greatful.

Thanks very much

 

[Mr. Chicago]

23g 1 1/2 for glutes and 25g 1 inch for delts, only two places i do but many say quads are good too, same pin size as delts if you choose. As far as your doc I'm shocked he didn't at least prescribe clomid. I'm no pct expert and usually avoid giving advice but there's tons of info on a good one and someone will chime in soon with a breakdown so stay tuned. How long since your last bloods and when did you come off cold turkey? A cc is equivalent to a ml so if the test is 200mg per ml that means 1cc is also 200mg. 1 1/2 ccs is going to be the high end of your proposed dose 300mg. What is your height, weight, bf %? Dbol isn't all that necessary for you I wouldn't think but you could do 20mg a day for first 4weeks for a lil extra kick, run it everyday though and split it into 2-3 doses throughout the day.

 

[brazilbeast]

Id say just go back on the trt if you can and just blast and cruise

 

[IronmanLV]

I'm even older than you. I'll be 57 in 2 weeks. I'm a life long lifter, have done some competitions, but that was a while ago. My recommendation since your natural test levels are low; rather than PCT which after 40 IMO is pointless, stay on low doses of your favorite test like cyp or enth? I stay on year round with no negative side effects.I get checkups every 6 months. I'm not doing crazy amounts of gear. I hate orals because they are so unpredictable. I much prefer when you need a quick boost go with 100 mg Propionate every other day for a few weeks until the cyp kicks in then keep going with the cyp. cycle you mention.

I know I'll get a blast of crap from those who think staying on is crazy but I've been on since 2000 with no negative sides. Maybe I'm lucky, blessed, crazy whatever, pick your metaphor, but it's worked for me. Just make sure you get your blood work monitored regularly.

 

[rockyroadiron]

Thank you very much for all of your inputs. It looks like about half of you agree with my proposed cycle and dosage. I don't want to take more dbol or test cyp than is necessary to push me over into a good anabolic state.

I can appreciate those who questioned me on "why now" after this long since my last cycle do I want to start it up again. This is sort of a test for me (no pun intended), I want to go into this with as much good information as I can get from all of you, and then see what happens. Not that the drugs are going to do it for me, but hopefully they will facilitate the hard work I've already put into the sport and plan to continue into the future.

Must say though, I'm a little nervous in regards to doing the pct correctly. Maybe it will make more sense after I get the right size and type of syringe. But the hucog I have, included just one boxed vial, containing 1ml of liquid hcg @ 10000 i.u. I've read that hcg comes in a powder form that you mix with solution that is provided with the powder. Not mine. And don't see how I can squeeze 250 i.u. 3 x week for 10 to 12 weeks from just 1ml of hcg.

Also, It is a good idea to run the hcg right through the entire cycle, but not in high doses, right?

Thanks again for all your advice. And if you that have responded already or someone else who's just reading this believes my understanding is still in need of more tweaking, please, please, let me know. I need all your knowledge and advice I can get.

Thanks Much

 

[25homes]

I'd go test at 500mg 12 weeks jump start with Dianabulk get aromasin from Agguys add gw and s4 from sarms1 to cycle. .run n2guard and hcgenerate through out cycle. .follow evo pct protocol

 

[rockyroadiron]

Since I haven't started my cycle yet, I thought it would be a good idea to get your thoughts on an alternative cycle than the one I mentioned @ top of discussion, i.e. basically test cyp and dbol. That would be removing the dbol in exchange for tren ace, or tri-tren.

Do you think either of these would be a better combo with the test cyp than the dbol I've planned on using, or do the trens seem too advanced, for now anyway, for someone like me who has only done four cycles, and those were 20 years ago, except for the trt that ended up in failure.

I've done some reading on the tren ace and most agree that if it's not the best, it certainly is close to the top as far as producing size, strength, and combined properly for cutting also. But there are usually some significant caveats as far as side effects, if not used wisely (of course that goes for all hormones), but tren especially.

I hope someone will share their knowledge regarding both the tren ace, and the tri-tren. I just want to be careful, and I'll continue to research them in my free time. But again, any knowledge/advice on these is always very much appreciated.

Thanks again

 

[MrSinister]

Get back on trt definitely. And get a new doc if possible. Start a blast and trt protocol, that way you will be avoiding pct altogether. If your test is low, pct isn't gonna bring it back anyways, unless the underlying problem is treatable with the pct compounds.