Nelson Montana - Short cycle questions

[Smurfi]

@ Nelson

all the years before you recommended in your articles and books 3 week short cycles ( + 1 week orals).

Now I read that you doubled it up to 6 weeks.

any reason for that change ?

did you get much better gains with 6 weeks cycles than
with the 3- 4 weekers ?

is hpta recovery not much worse with a 6 weeker, compared to a 3- 4 weeker ? ( not to speak of 2-3 weeks
longer bad blood lipids !!!!!!!)

do you recommend to inject still in the last 6th week ( which would be a 8-weeker !) or should one stop after 30 days, so that at the end of the 6th one is totally off and recovery of HPTA can beginn ?
( when one uses Primobolan +Test, should both injected
the same length or should test be stopped earlier, because it is more suppressive ?)


in some threads I read that you increased the dosage of Primobolan from 400 (older articles) up to 500/600-800mg ?
why that ?

many advocates of short cycles in other forums criticize
about your cycle plans, that there is no frontload
at the very beginning.
a frontload would bring the steroid level quickly up to a level, which would otherwise need a few weeks. is that not
very important for a short cycle with a long ester ?

in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote a chapter
called PERFECT CYCLE.
in this 3-4 weeks cycle you use Primobolan - methenolone - as the main steroid +
2 stackers : Testo and Dianabol ( 2n week anavar, 3rd Winstrol).
would it be a bad idea to use a small amount of Testo and
Dianabol - methandrostenolone - as stackers for 6 weeks ? ( maybe Dbol only in the beginning, as a kickstart or at the end , when one stops injecting after 30 days and levels go down)

do you think that 500 mg of Testo (as a stacker) would be too much suppressive ?


Thanks !!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

@ Nelson

all the years before you recommended in your articles and books 3 week short cycles ( + 1 week orals).

Now I read that you doubled it up to 6 weeks.

any reason for that change ?

.........................................................................

*****

Technically, my recommendation was 4 weeks (stop injections after 3 weeks, continue with orals for another). At the time this was a radical approach but it was based on the fact that A: the body is most receptive to any drug in the early stages, and B: supression begins to compound severely after that period. Also, smaller gains are easier to keep. There are other reasons but it's too lengthy to get into here. No one had ever explored this method before I wrote about it. Not publicly or in print at least. Remember, this was 10 years ago. Things were very different.





.........................................................

did you get much better gains with 6 weeks cycles than
with the 3- 4 weekers ?



......................................................

******


I found that it was possible to get good gains further into the cycle and with improved PC T, 6 weeks was viable. After that, supression increases expodentially and PC T has less of an effect. realize, none of this was an exact science but it's important to question standard thinking. In doing so, many of the theories I had which were "against the grain" have been accepted, are regarded as preferable and in many cases proven to be the most efficaceous.






..........................................................







is hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - recovery not much worse with a 6 weeker, compared to a 3- 4 weeker ? ( not to speak of 2-3 weeks
longer bad blood lipids !!!!!!!)


.....................................................

*****

I never advocated 2-3 weekers. That was a protocol which was essentially a rip off of my findings. The funny thing is, the then popular guru who stole it not only didn't acknowledge where he got the concept frpm, he tried to discredit me! Thus is the ego and infantile nature of many of the so called experts in the field.




................................................................................

do you recommend to inject still in the last 6th week ( which would be a 8-weeker !) or should one stop after 30 days, so that at the end of the 6th one is totally off and recovery of HPTA can beginn ?
( when one uses Primobolan +Test, should both injected
the same length or should test be stopped earlier, because it is more suppressive ?)


........................................................................

*******


It depends on how exact you want to be. Will a week one way or the other make much of a difference? Maybe not, but at some point you have to be willing to pull the plug if you want to stay safe. For extra details and specifics for any individuals program I give one on one consultations. In this format I have to speak a little more "generally."





..................................................................



in some threads I read that you increased the dosage of Primobolan from 400 (older articles) up to 500/600-800mg ?
why that ?



...............................................................

********

No, I usually recommend 400. Maybe in some cases where guys were doing a gram of test and 600 mgs of Decca, and testosterone propionate and dball (yes, crazy but just a couple of years ago, this was the norm -- even recomended to beginners!) So I might have said, "try 600-800 of Primmo instead, which is obviously a lot smarter.



......................................................................................

many advocates of short cycles in other forums criticize
about your cycle plans, that there is no frontload
at the very beginning.
a frontload would bring the steroid level quickly up to a level, which would otherwise need a few weeks. is that not
very important for a short cycle with a long ester ?




.....................................................

*******


Finding fault with the work of people who actually create something is the favorite passtime of internet experts so that doesn't surprise me nor do I find it necessary to address every erroneous assumption and accusation. Esters have very little to do with how quickly blood levels rise. This is a common misunderstanding.



...............................................

in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote a chapter
called PERFECT CYCLE.
in this 3-4 weeks cycle you use Primobolan - methenolone - as the main steroid +
2 stackers : Testo and Dianabol ( 2n week anavar, 3rd Winstrol).
would it be a bad idea to use a small amount of Testo and
Dianabol - methandrostenolone - as stackers for 6 weeks ? ( maybe Dianabol - methandrostenolone - only in the beginning, as a kickstart or at the end , when one stops injecting after 30 days and levels go down)

.........................................................



**********


That program was more of a "Elite, gold standard" cycle which was more of a "dream" cycle. It would work great but it's splitting hairs in regard to results. Using Anavar - oxandrolone - or winnie at the end makes sense to maintain anobolism while giving the HPTA a head start toward recovery. One could use Proviron at that point too which is even less supressive but doesn;t do much in reagrd to building muscle.


.................................................................



do you think that 500 mg of Testo (as a stacker) would be too much suppressive ?


...................................................

**********

I think it's too much. Elevating T levels is obviously a part of growing muscle but once it gets far beyond what the body can incorporate, it's really overkill. 500 mgs will raise T to over 3000ngs. Nobody has that much T and the body isn't meant to tolerate it. Let the nitrogen retention build the muscle and use the test as a "kicker."


Thanks !!


....................................................................

************


You're welcome.


!

..

 

[artificialaspirations]

good post nelson

short cycles seem to be the way to go, especially if one wants to avoid suspicion; ie getting to big to fast

 

[2raptors]

VERY GOOD POST BY THE POSTER Karma to you dude!>>>>AND GREAT response Nelson...

my wife had an interesting question that I did not consider..and I'll post itin a different thread...

Cheers

M

 

[centy]

..For extra details and specifics for any individuals program I give one on one consultations.

Really? How does one get more info on that?

 

[ProtienFiend]

Anyone do a 4 weeker of tren? or tren + something?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Really? How does one get more info on that?

Big Rick is working on a program right now where it'll be available through the site. It's a matter of working out schedules and such. In the meantime, shoot me a PM.

 

[BigGuyPHX]

GREAT Questions!!!
GREAT Answers Nelson!!!

I was wondering some of the same things.

 

[big greg 82]

hollaaaaaaaaa

 

[BigGuyPHX]

Nelson or anyone...
What about some of the talk about the pro's of the 70's that did these short dboll low does cycles???(True False Maybe) Was this not a effective way to build muscle mass and avoid serious sides??? Was this the way to avoid sides and why PCT - post cycle therapy - was so over looked???

I feel the pros back then had a higher quality look to them and wonder how much it had to do with the gear they ran, how long of cycles, and dose???

I personally like the idea of a 6 week cycle but wonder if I am just being old school too much???

 

[holy ghost]

holla !

 

[BigGuyPHX]

holla !

holla!

Going to the gym...
Hold all my calls untill I get back.

BigG

 

[Smurfi]

@ Nelson

Thanks for your reply !

- do you mean with " improved PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - " Unleashed and
Post cycle ?
I guess, that Clomid still sucks ... ( that has not changed
since your first article)


- I know a few guys, who did some short cycles, who told me, that they didn´t fell any difference in recovery of
libido between a 4-weeker and a 6-weeker.
but if they did a longer cycle, exactly after the 6/7th week
recovery is much much harder !
that is exactly what you wrote.

so for most people 6 weeks seems to be the limit for a short cycle.

- you are right, it is an individual thing, if somebody has
to stop injecting after 30 days, so he will be off after 6 weeks. but some can still recover well, when they inject some Primobolan - methenolone - in week 5 or 6. but I think Test should be stopped after 30 days.

- Frontload:

here is a link of a short cycle "guru" of an other forum, who tries to convince people, that a frontload is very very important for a short cycle:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264&highlight=frontloading+explained

when you look at the numbers, you will see that without a frontload in the first week there is 250 mg test in the blood, 2nd 375 , 3rd 437 ... 7th 498 mg.
the frontload will bring your blood level up to 500 mg
after one week.

BUT : will you see or feel any difference , if you have
250 mg or 500 mg in your blood in the first or second week ?
I think not.

like you wrote, even long ester steroids start to bring up blood levels very quickly. when you inject 400 mg Primo and 200 mg Test, your body had 300 mg more hormones
in the blood in that first week !

but many report, that Primo and test don´t start working
before week 3 or 4 ( some even later).
I don´t know what they are doing wrong. ( maybe nutrition)

- what do you think about some additional dbol in your
cycle plans ?
Maybe as a kickstarter and/or at the end, when one stops injections after 30 days and levels decline in week 5 and 6 ?

- how long should be the time off ?
other "gurus" recommend for a 6-weeker 6-8 weeks
off. I guess , that is too short in your opinion, right ?


- you always stress, when using Primo, to eat a lot of protein.
in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote that
the old rule 1g for 1 pound bodyweight is enough.

do you still recommend this ?
or is more even better ? Like the Doggcrapp system
recommends up to 2 g/pound. they say protein is the ultimate anabolic and 1g is way to less.

- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?

a friend of mine, he normally is a low-responder to steroids, but he gained 20 pounds doing a Primo only cycle
( 200 mg a week !) in 12 weeks, eating tons of food.
he told me, when he needs around 2.500 calories a day.
with that amount he can stay at his current weight.
eating 2.600 a day , he was gaining already fat (naturally).

but when he uses steroids, they don´t seem to work
at all, when he eats 2.500 or even 3.000.
no positive and no negative effects, absolutley nothing.

when he increased his calories up to 4.500-5.000, all of a sudden the steroid started to work and his strength increased and his body weight .

but he gained a lot of fat in these 12 weeks too !
he looked much better before ....

in my opinion he was eating way too much calories.
actually he was eating double the amount he needs naturally.

steroids do increase the metabolism, but not to such an
extent.

but he claims, that the Primo doesn´t work if he eats less, he has to accept the fact that he will gain a lot of fat too.

I remember that Bill Phillips wrote in the very first
MM 2000 issue, that steroids increase calorie needs
up to 25 %. that does sound more reasonable to me.

that could be a surplus of 500 -600 calories.


- many other short cycle "gurus " claim, that when one stays off for a long time, dosages don´t have to be increased.
some are doing cycle after cycle with the same low dosage
and still get results ( that´s what they claim ...)
when my friend, who had really good gains with only 200 mg of Primo, stays off for a few months, do you think he could use 200 mg for the next cycles too or is it only a beginner dosage for the very first cycle ?

by the way, he told me , that he had no side effects
( only a lot of extreme sweating, but that could be caused of the extreme eating too ) until week 7, , after week
7, his libido decreased !!!! but only a little bit, but he could feel it.


Thanks !!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

@ Nelson

Thanks for your reply !

- do you mean with " improved PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - " Unleashed and
Post cycle ?
...............................................................


WHEN I FIRST WROTE THE BOOKS, I JUST RECOMMEND THE INGREDIENTS (IF YOU COULD FIND THEM). WHEN I WAS ASKED TO ACTUALLY PUT TOGETHER A FORMULA, OF COURSE I WAS GOING TO USE WHAT I FOUND TO BE EFFECTIVE.


................................................



I guess, that Clomid still sucks ... ( that has not changed
since your first article)


.................................................


HATE IT. BUT IT SEEMS TO WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE.


..............................................

- I know a few guys, who did some short cycles, who told me, that they didn´t fell any difference in recovery of
libido between a 4-weeker and a 6-weeker.
but if they did a longer cycle, exactly after the 6/7th week
recovery is much much harder !
that is exactly what you wrote.


....................................

YEP.


.......................................

so for most people 6 weeks seems to be the limit for a short cycle.

- you are right, it is an individual thing, if somebody has
to stop injecting after 30 days, so he will be off after 6 weeks. but some can still recover well, when they inject some Primobolan - methenolone - in week 5 or 6. but I think Test should be stopped after 30 days.

- Frontload:

here is a link of a short cycle "guru" of an other forum, who tries to convince people, that a frontload is very very important for a short cycle:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264&highlight=frontloading+explained

when you look at the numbers, you will see that without a frontload in the first week there is 250 mg test in the blood, 2nd 375 , 3rd 437 ... 7th 498 mg.
the frontload will bring your blood level up to 500 mg
after one week.


...................................................

THIS IS JUST BULLSHIT. ANOTHER EXPERT AT REGURGITATING MISINFORMATION COMPLETE WITH PRETEND NUMBERS AND MAKE BELIEVE GRAPHS. AN ESTER DETERMINES THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE SUBSTANCE IS ACTIVE, NOT HOW FAST IT WORKS . (THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE BUT MOST ANY STEROID IS "ACTIVE " WITHIN 24 HOURS). WHEN PEOPLE SAY A COMPOUND TAKES 6 WEEKS TO KICK IN IT'S DOWN RIGHT MORONIC. THE ORIGINAL DOSE WILL BE LONG GONE BY THEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO IT? IT DECIDED NOT TO WORK BECAUSE IT KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BE DOING THIS 6 WEEKS FROM NOW? THE STUPIDITY THAT IS DEMOSTRATED (AND FOLLOWED) ON THE INTERNET IS STAGGERING SOMETIMES. IF YOU WANT "INSTANTLY' HIGH LEVELS, USE AN ORAL.



....................................................

BUT : will you see or feel any difference , if you have
250 mg or 500 mg in your blood in the first or second week ?
I think not.

like you wrote, even long ester steroids start to bring up blood levels very quickly. when you inject 400 mg Primo and 200 mg Test, your body had 300 mg more hormones
in the blood in that first week !

...............................

CORRECT.


...................................................

but many report, that Primo and test don´t start working
before week 3 or 4 ( some even later).
I don´t know what they are doing wrong. ( maybe nutrition)

.......................................

I DON'T KNOW. MAYBE THEY NEED TO GET A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE WEIGHT RACK.



......................................................

- what do you think about some additional dbol in your
cycle plans ?
Maybe as a kickstarter and/or at the end, when one stops injections after 30 days and levels decline in week 5 and 6 ?


..............................................

ADDING DBALL AT THE END ISN'T RECOMMENED BECAUSE IT'S VERY SUPRESSIVE. THAT'S WHAY I SUGGESTED A MORE ANABOLIC ORAL AT THE END .


......................................................

- how long should be the time off ?
other "gurus" recommend for a 6-weeker 6-8 weeks
off. I guess , that is too short in your opinion, right ?


......................................................

YES, FOR FULL RECOVERY FROM A 6 WEEKER SHOULD BE NO LESS THAN 12 WEEKS WITH PROPER PC T.



.............................................................


- you always stress, when using Primo, to eat a lot of protein.
in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote that
the old rule 1g for 1 pound bodyweight is enough.

..................................................

IN GENERAL YES. BUT SINCE PRIMMOS RESULTS ARE SO DETERMINED ON NITROGEN INTAKE YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS HAVE SOME AVAILABLE. BESIDES, TAKING IN 300 GRAMS OF PROTEIN ISN'T EASY.



..................................................

do you still recommend this ?
or is more even better ? Like the Doggcrapp system
recommends up to 2 g/pound. they say protein is the ultimate anabolic and 1g is way to less.


..............................................


DON;T GET ME STARTED ON DC. BUT YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. THE MORE THE BETTER WHEN TRYING TO GAIN.


...................................................

- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?

..................................


DEPENDS.


....................................................................

a friend of mine, he normally is a low-responder to steroids, but he gained 20 pounds doing a Primo only cycle
( 200 mg a week !) in 12 weeks, eating tons of food.
he told me, when he needs around 2.500 calories a day.
with that amount he can stay at his current weight.
eating 2.600 a day , he was gaining already fat (naturally).

but when he uses steroids, they don´t seem to work
at all, when he eats 2.500 or even 3.000.
no positive and no negative effects, absolutley nothing.

....................................


STEROIDS CAN'T BUILD MUSCLE OUT OF NOTHING.



..........................................

when he increased his calories up to 4.500-5.000, all of a sudden the steroid started to work and his strength increased and his body weight .

but he gained a lot of fat in these 12 weeks too !
he looked much better before ....

in my opinion he was eating way too much calories.
actually he was eating double the amount he needs naturally.

steroids do increase the metabolism, but not to such an
extent.

but he claims, that the Primo doesn´t work if he eats less, he has to accept the fact that he will gain a lot of fat too.

I remember that Bill Phillips wrote in the very first
MM 2000 issue, that steroids increase calorie needs
up to 25 %. that does sound more reasonable to me.

that could be a surplus of 500 -600 calories.


- many other short cycle "gurus " claim, that when one stays off for a long time, dosages don´t have to be increased.
some are doing cycle after cycle with the same low dosage
and still get results ( that´s what they claim ...)
when my friend, who had really good gains with only 200 mg of Primo, stays off for a few months, do you think he could use 200 mg for the next cycles too or is it only a beginner dosage for the very first cycle ?


...................................................

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.



......................................................................

by the way, he told me , that he had no side effects
( only a lot of extreme sweating, but that could be caused of the extreme eating too ) until week 7, , after week
7, his libido decreased !!!! but only a little bit, but he could feel it.

...........................................


AND TO BIG GUY PHX -- YEAH, THE REASON THE OLD TIMERS HAD A QUALITY LOOK AND NO GYNO OR OTHER ILL EFFECTS WAS ESSENTIALLY THE DOSAGES AND THE DURATION OF THE DRUG USE.



Thanks !!!

..

 

[ekbenzo]

not to hijack,but how long for recovery for a 3week inj and 4week oral?how many weeks?thanx.

 

[Smurfi]

@ Nelson

- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?
DEPENDS.

do you mean it depends on the individual metabolism ?

my friend is an endo/meso. slow metabolism.
would you recommend more than
500 calories surplus for this body type ?
(ectos could eat of course much much more)

eating over 2.000 surplus, he gained 50/50 muscle/fat
I think.
he lost most of the muscle in the diet later ....


DON;T GET ME STARTED ON DC.

oh, that sounds you are not a big fan of DC, hehe ....

I tried it for a few months; results: strength was good, but nearly no muscle gains.
same applies to HIT/HD .
1-set-to failure isn´t for bodybuilding, maybe that´s the reason why DC fans call DC "Powerbuilding", not Bodybuilding.
I don´t believe in Mentzer´s and DC´s theory:
to build muscle, one must build strength.

my experience is: for muscle gains one must train
intensely with high volume AND change the routine very often ( exercises, reps, rep speed, pauses ...). No program works forever ( also not DC and HST).
Maybe the best would be to have no routine at all, like
you wrote in one of your books (Bodybuilding Truth ?).
Most pros have no routine, they just train hard with a lot of volume and the exercises they like.
They laugh at the skinny guys who plan every workout
in advance on a sheet of paper (HST !!!!).

why do you dislike DC ?

what do you think of HST ?


- Unleashed: should one use it already during the cycle
(to bind sex hormone binding globulin ) or save it for post cycle ?

I think, when one adds some Test to Primmo, the Test
will bind already enough SHBG, the Avena Sativa will not
increase this effect much more.
for a Primmo only cycle maybe some Avena Sativa would
be good.


Thanks !!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

not to hijack,but how long for recovery for a 3week inj and 4week oral?how many weeks?thanx.

The same -- twice the time you were on.

My issues with DC are more personal but he has some great training ideas, I just disagree with some of the tactics. The problem with most guys that use BIG guys as an example of the effectiveness of a routine is in itself flawed. Most of these guys were big to start out with and could tolerate that form of training. Making the scrawny guy more muscular -- THAT takes more knowledge.

Training for strength will make you more muscular as a side effect, and training for more muscle will make you stronger as a side effect. You have to decide which is more important.

UNLEASHED is good any time. I really believe for a bodybuilder it should be regarded as a multi vitamin is -- something you just use everyday.

 

[2raptors]

Hey Nelson....I've got my "theoretical" stack in a row.....everything I need to get started...including PCT..."Protein fac's unleashed and PCT". You wrote that unleashed is good anytime...all the time? I saw some comparisons of unleashed against Instone's FORZA-T...(unleashed was rated better...and less $$). I utilized Forza-T only (really, honestly felt that my muscles felt "harder"...but did jack shit in any other area) for 8 weeks..... But now I've got a good supply of Unleashed. Should I utilize it with my upcoming 6 week cycle?

Also....I wanted to ask you about Anavar. What would you think about adding it to the stack? 450ew Prim0, 250ew Sustanon , and maybe 50mg ed anaV? I know that more is not necessarily better..I believe that...but I've read such good things about Anavar too.... Is that OVERKILL for my first ever cycle? I've got the Anavar too...(for the lady to start soon).... just wondering about your thoughts.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Nelson....I've got my "theoretical" stack in a row.....everything I need to get started...including PCT - post cycle therapy - ..."Protein fac's unleashed and PCT". You wrote that unleashed is good anytime...all the time? I saw some comparisons of unleashed against Instone's FORZA-T...(unleashed was rated better...and less $$). I utilized Forza-T only (really, honestly felt that my muscles felt "harder"...but did jack shit in any other area) for 8 weeks..... But now I've got a good supply of Unleashed. Should I utilize it with my upcoming 6 week cycle?

Also....I wanted to ask you about Anavar. What would you think about adding it to the stack? 450ew Prim0, 250ew Sustanon , and maybe 50mg ed anaV? I know that more is not necessarily better..I believe that...but I've read such good things about Anavar too.... Is that OVERKILL for my first ever cycle? I've got the Anavar too...(for the lady to start soon).... just wondering about your thoughts.

Since it's your first cycle, keep it simple. Don't even take the UNLEASHED because it will help you recover. Next time you can add varr and/or UNLEASHED. UNLEASHED will increase available T while on but since you have no reference, go without it. It'll kick in harder once you're off everything and you need it more anyway. I'd recommend VIGOR and BIG BLAST too PC.

 

[2raptors]

I'd recommend VIGOR and BIG BLAST too PC.[/QUOTE]

OK...cool. I've got big blast too...., but not VIGOR...I'll get it. Hey, I've (we've) tried EVERYTHING...BSN, Gaspari, Champion, GNC, BIOTEST, INSTONE...LG Labs.... only the "INSTONE" products (Pre-workout Intensity and post work out, maybe the Forza-T) had any real effect on us..... the rest (well, except No-Explode..which made my skin crawl too harshly) was crap...

I'm really hopeful for the Protein Factory products....going to try those FIRST...then maybe experiment with Primodial's stuff later down the road after PC is complete.

Thanks for the great info dude.! K to you as usual!!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'd recommend VIGOR and BIG BLAST too PC.

OK...cool. I've got big blast too...., but not VIGOR...I'll get it. Hey, I've (we've) tried EVERYTHING...BSN, Gaspari, Champion, GNC, BIOTEST, INSTONE...LG Labs.... only the "INSTONE" products (Pre-workout Intensity and post work out, maybe the Forza-T) had any real effect on us..... the rest (well, except No-Explode..which made my skin crawl too harshly) was crap...

I'm really hopeful for the Protein Factory products....going to try those FIRST...then maybe experiment with Primodial's stuff later down the road after PC is complete.

Thanks for the great info dude.! K to you as usual!!![/QUOTE]


Great. start everything a week after the last shot and continue for the following month. You should land with no crash and hold onto most of your gains. Let us know.

 

[ekbenzo]

unleashed didnt work out for me but VIGOR is amazing!

 

[Nelson Montana]

unleashed didnt work out for me but VIGOR is amazing!

VIGOR is amazing -- strength, endurance, increased pumps, but I'm sorry to hear UNLEASHED didn't work for you bro. How'd you use it? Recovery? Increasing the effectiveness of a cycle? Libido booster? Nothing is 100%, even drugs, but UNLEASHED has a pretty consistant aproval rating. How much were you using and for how long?

 

[mobro]

which one do you recommend for a natural male wanting a test.. boost? Had a guy ask me the other day, steered him this way but wasn't sure of which one was recommended for a boost.

 

[mrburshank]

Nelson, a shorter cycle seems to make good sense. If I can ask your advice,
A 12 week cycle of 750 ml test cyp a wk, 200 deca a wk,& 50mg for the 1st 5wks per day. Would you cut this in half (same dosages but for 6 wks) if so, is the same amount of PCT needed as for a 12wk cyc.
Thank you

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, a shorter cycle seems to make good sense. If I can ask your advice,
A 12 week cycle of 750 ml test testosterone cypionate a wk, 200 Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - a wk,& 50mg for the 1st 5wks per day. Would you cut this in half (same dosages but for 6 wks) if so, is the same amount of PCT - post cycle therapy - needed as for a 12wk cyc.
Thank you

50 mgs of an oral? Which one? What is your PCT?

 

[mrburshank]

d ball,
arimedex all the wy through for the deca, clomid (front load 1st day then) for 6 weeks ,2 weeks after last inj. Would apply HCG but I cant find it.
What is your opinion on using 20 rep squats as PCT, squats raise nat. test dont they? Same for sex (sperm production)?

Will 2 6 week cycles be more effective than 1 12 week?
Thank you.

 

[enacer420nj]

d ball,
arimedex all the wy through for the Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , clomid (front load 1st day then) for 6 weeks ,2 weeks after last inj. Would apply HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - but I cant find it.
What is your opinion on using 20 rep squats as PCT - post cycle therapy - , squats raise nat. test dont they? Same for sex (sperm production)?

Will 2 6 week cycles be more effective than 1 12 week?
Thank you.

Arimidex is probably too weak for 750 test, go with aromasin and it doesnt do much for deca because deca is a progesterone you need cabaser...no point in frontloading the clomid....sorry dude but if you think squats are considered PC.T you need more research, also deca is not meant to be run only6 weeks its meant for longer good luck

 

[Nelson Montana]

d ball,
arimedex all the wy through for the Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , clomid (front load 1st day then) for 6 weeks ,2 weeks after last inj.
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Dexx or clomid won't do anything to ward off the sides from decca. Either will cabaser. Decca increases progesterone and that's what causes bloat, supression and impotence. There is nothing that will lower prog without fucking up other stuff. Use POST-CYCLE to detox the liver from the 50 mgs of d ball.




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Would apply HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - but I cant find it.
What is your opinion on using 20 rep squats as PCT - post cycle therapy - , squats raise nat. test dont they? Same for sex (sperm production)?



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20 reps squats increase growth hormone, not testosterone.





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Will 2 6 week cycles be more effective than 1 12 week?

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Yes.



Thank you.

..

 

[mrburshank]

good info thanks, so nothing can be done to combat deca?
sounds like its not worth using.

 

[mobro]

it's not to me...but is great for a rare few.

 

[mrburshank]

..

 

[Nelson Montana]

When I placed in the NPC Nationals my pre-contest stack was 200 mgs of decca a week and 20 mgs of winstrol a day. That's IT. So decca is very powerful and even though I wouldn't touch it ever again, it shows that you don't need much so why risk the sides? There is no drug therapy that will help (though winnie is supposed to have some anti prog capabilities). You need to get your body up and running on its own as soon as possible. That means, HC G, then saturating your system with the right nutrients.

 

[ekbenzo]

i used unleashed as a test/libido booster and didnt feel anything.VIGOR and myogenx are great products thats for sure.oh,and sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[mobro]

you didnt...thanks

 

[Nelson Montana]

i used unleashed as a test/libido booster and didnt feel anything.VIGOR and myogenx are great products thats for sure.oh,and sorry to hijack the thread.

It seems like every other post you make is to say how you loved VIGOR but didn't like UNLEASHED. You obviously feel strong about it. I wish more people would check out VIGOR, it's a great supp, right?

I asked before but didn't get a reply; how much UNLEASHED did you use, for how long and for what purpose? It works on 95% of the people who use it so when someone is disappointed, i'm curious as to what they expected and why they didn't get the desired results.