My buddy got fucked up from juice!

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Damn, he was hospitalized with liver problems. I don't know the full story yet but he said he's better now. His liver enzymes were elevated. I'm not sure what all he was taking but I think he had been on anadrol recently. This makes me think about going clean.

 

[rnch]

stay here, dude, read and learn!!!!!!!!!!

your buddy's problems can be minimized with proper supplimentation.

 

[Zyglamail]

First off did he have blood work prior to cycling to make sure he was healthy? What I find rather funny is how you dont even know the details of what he was taking or his condition yet you blame gear for his problems. Sure gear use has consequences but it can be used rather safely if done properly. I would bet your friends use was not done properly and that is something you can hardly blame on the juice. Its a little thing I call personal responsibility so what it boils down to is its your freinds fault, not the juices. On a side note, I dont like to see anyone ill, so I do hope your friend will be allright.

 

[Nutrient-Nut]

Any idiot if dumb enough can get messed up from a drug if they don't know what they're doing. Sounds like he didn't know what the hell he was doing. Just because one's liver enzymes are elevated doesn't mean that they are going to have to be hospitalized. That's hardley ever the end result.

Sounds like your buddy is retarded and better quit the juice for good! Steroids are not for retards, you must have some basic pharmacological understanding. Most people that are serious about using steroids know more about the drugs than doctors do. Whether this is really your friend or you, go out and learn, learn, and learn some more if you're going to use anabolics.

NN

 

[Lift Chief]

I wouldn't have posted something like this until i was sure that it was really gear that messed my friend up... just my opinion.

 

[liftsiron]

First off did he have blood work prior to cycling to make sure he was healthy? What I find rather funny is how you dont even know the details of what he was taking or his condition yet you blame gear for his problems. Sure gear use has consequences but it can be used rather safely if done properly. I would bet your friends use was not done properly and that is something you can hardly blame on the juice. Its a little thing I call personal responsibility so what it boils down to is its your freinds fault, not the juices. On a side note, I dont like to see anyone ill, so I do hope your friend will be allright.

Ditto Also elevated enzymes do not in themselves, always mean serious liver damage. Was he drinking, or even worse taking tylonel?

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Damn, I think there are some people on this board that are in serious denial that steroids can cause problems. When a 31 year old man that's juiced on and off for 8 years (and doesn't drink) develops jaundice, I think it's pretty safe to assume the juice was a factor. (Especially considering the liver problems subsided after he quit the gear)

 

[gwl9dta4]

nobody is denying it, they are just saying that it takes some stupid uneducated mistakes to get fucked up. Everyone should know that Anadrol is hard on the liver, very hard.

 

[Fonz]

Damn, I think there are some people on this board that are in serious denial that steroids can cause problems. When a 31 year old man that's juiced on and off for 8 years (and doesn't drink) develops jaundice, I think it's pretty safe to assume the juice was a factor. (Especially considering the liver problems subsided after he quit the gear)

No offense, but Jaundice from MODERATE AAS use is rare in the extreme.

Fonz

 

[Zyglamail]

Damn, I think there are some people on this board that are in serious denial that steroids can cause problems. When a 31 year old man that's juiced on and off for 8 years (and doesn't drink) develops jaundice, I think it's pretty safe to assume the juice was a factor. (Especially considering the liver problems subsided after he quit the gear)

Well, I dont think any of us are denying the dangers, but just because the guy is 31 doesnt make him educated on safe AAS use. And the fact he doesnt drink means very little as well. On the contrary many older lifters are more prone to aches and pains and often treat these with acetametaphene, NSAIDs etc, all of which can be very hard on the liver, that combined with AAS use can be more than most can handle. Additionally, by your own admission you dont know the whole story. Is your freind on anti depressants? Just one more very livir stressfull product shoved in our face daily and touted as safe.

I simply think that before someone comes out and makes a black and white statement like you did, you should know all the facts about his situation. Your post reminded me of a typical media story of an AAS user.

 

[gwl9dta4]

No offense, but Jaundice from MODERATE AAS use is rare in the extreme.

Fonz

By moderate, are you referring to dosage or duration? Or both?
I have read studies in the past that showed data on patients developing jaundice from 5mg dball administered for 24 months. True the lengh of time was long but the dosage was low. Given the lifestyle most bodybuilders live (recreational) i could easily see a cycle of Anadrol for say 8 weeks putting someone in a hospital, not necassarily with jaundice but liver problems still.

I personally know one guy who complained of liver pains on 10mg of dball. He felt it within 30min of taking each pill, consistently every time. Good thing he never continued taking it. Now some thick headed fool would continue and possibly end up with a strained liver, granted the liver will regenerate, but still, why mess with your health like that?

 

[manny78]

Damn, I think there are some people on this board that are in serious denial that steroids can cause problems. When a 31 year old man that's juiced on and off for 8 years (and doesn't drink) develops jaundice, I think it's pretty safe to assume the juice was a factor. (Especially considering the liver problems subsided after he quit the gear)

well he's been juicing for 8 years. Ok. Now was this the first time he was taking Anadrol ? Also remember one thing: taking anadrol means AT LEAST 50 mg of 17aa. I'd also like to know the lenght of his cycles and dosage.....

 

[GENETIC_FREAK]

gwl9dta4, Can you post a link to these studies?----------Freak

 

[Fonz]

By moderate, are you referring to dosage or duration? Or both?
I have read studies in the past that showed data on patients developing jaundice from 5mg dball administered for 24 months. True the lengh of time was long but the dosage was low. Given the lifestyle most bodybuilders live (recreational) i could easily see a cycle of Anadrol for say 8 weeks putting someone in a hospital, not necassarily with jaundice but liver problems still.

I personally know one guy who complained of liver pains on 10mg of dball. He felt it within 30min of taking each pill, consistently every time. Good thing he never continued taking it. Now some thick headed fool would continue and possibly end up with a strained liver, granted the liver will regenerate, but still, why mess with your health like that?

The only case of Jaundice from AAS use I have ever seen reported was Fukkenshredded.

He got Jaundice from running high dose inj. winny for
half dozen months or so.

Thats it.

Fonz

 

[gwl9dta4]

gwl9dta4, Can you post a link to these studies?----------Freak

Nope. I read them a long time ago, before i did any cycle. In those days i had to get my info from periodicals and other reports. So in effect it's all in my head.

 

[thelegacy]

think about it people--if the guy has never been hospitalized before and now got hospitalized with liver problems especially liver problems it is due to steroids--what else would it be---too much fruit juice!

 

[Zyglamail]

think about it people--if the guy has never been hospitalized before and now got hospitalized with liver problems especially liver problems it is due to steroids--what else would it be---too much fruit juice!

what else could it be? did you read my posts? NSAIDS and anti depresants are very hard on the liver whos to say he isnt taking a lot of either or both. While they likely wont send you to the hospital by themselves, combine them with oral AAS and you could have problems. If that is the case then it is just as much the fault of the NSAIDS/anti depresants as it is the AAS is it not? More specifically I would say its the fault of the user for not paying closer attention to what does have a detrimental impact. There is a thing called drug interaction and when you do not follow precautions you generally pay the price. Before people continue to claim AAS is the sole culprit of the guys problem I think we need some more info.

 

[Nutrient-Nut]

think about it people--if the guy has never been hospitalized before and now got hospitalized with liver problems especially liver problems it is due to steroids--what else would it be---too much fruit juice!

That's the problem, we don't know the whole story! We have a guy here talking about his friend that might not be aware of all the details of his friend's health and lifestyle over the last 8 years. There's a hell of a lot of bodybuilders out there that have never had any liver problems requiring bed ridden hopital care and I'm talking about some old timers that I know.

 

[siceone]

yeah it will hurt you if you do all orals. Injectables barely elevate liver values..

 

[RussianBro]

most of patients realize they have liver problems after checking with docs why their whites in their eyes turned yellow... By then liver is f..ked up... Liver pains... I wonder if you can experience liver pains if there are not nerve endings in liver... probably not...
Most alcoholics don't know they are screwed up till their stomachs are blown up (enlarged liver) and pee blood (poor kidneys).
Most men are ignorant to check with doc on regular occasions. But I believe it should be mandatory to run blood analisys (at least) if you use AAS.

The truth of the matter is that stories like this one don't make me stop using AAS. Rather they remind me that at least I'm smart enough to play it safe.

Don't get me wrong... I am very simpathetic to your friend. He is probably a good person. Neither of these bros who responded are ignorant or dont' care. But you just have to look at the bigger picture. Healthy person at 31 can withstand a lot... Even few months of anadrol or dbol (Ret). There is probably something else he doesn't tell you about his condition...

 

[Punschkrapfen]

--what else would it be---too much fruit juice!

could have been due to a lot of things; read:

[Drug-induced liver diseases]

Z Gastroenterol 2002 May;40(5):305-26 Related Articles, Links
[Article in German]

Teschke R.

Medizinische Klinik II, Klinikum Stadt Hanau, Akademisches Lehrkrankenhaus der Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universitat Frankfurt/Main, Germany.

About 1000 drugs produced world-wide may lead to clinically relevant hepatotoxic reactions which are unpredictable at normal doses and occur at various frequencies. Among these are well established therapeutic drugs which have been in use for years or decades as well as newly introduced drugs, the number of which is steadily increasing. For the development of drug-induced liver disease, various pathogenetic mechanisms, many risk factors and variable latency periods are known. The histological picture may imitate practically all known non-toxic liver diseases from which toxic liver disease needs to be differentiated. Patients under drug therapy require regular medical follow-up with regard to the development of toxic liver disease since the prognosis is only good with early recognition and immediate withdrawal of the alleged drug. Specific therapeutic modalities to prevent toxic liver disease are limited to paracetamol overdosage which is treated by the application of N-acetylcysteine. For other drug-induced liver diseases characterised by a prolonged course, therapy with ursodeoxycholic acid or steroids may be helpful. When fulminant drug-induced liver failure occurs, liver transplantation is the therapy of choice with a better prognosis than a conventional therapy. Despite this therapeutic option more than 40 different drugs are known to have caused lethal forms of toxic liver disease. Physicians have therefore to be alert to early recognize drug-induced liver disease and to withdraw the drug at first suspicion of the diagnosis.


you can kill yourself with an OTC NSAID like paracetamol (acetaminophen), read:

Lancet 2001 Nov 10;358(9293):1612-3 Related Articles, Links

Referral patterns and social deprivation in paracetamol-induced liver injury in Scotland.

Newsome PN, Bathgate AJ, Henderson NC, MacGilchrist AJ, Plevris JN, Masterton G, Garden OJ, Lee A, Hayes PC, Simpson KJ.

Paracetamol overdose is the commonest cause of acute liver failure in the UK, which has led to measures to restrict its sale. We aimed to establish whether changes in the referral of patients with paracetamol-induced acute liver failure have occurred since the introduction of legislation. We compared data from patients admitted to the Scottish Liver Transplantation Unit in 1992-98 with those admitted in 1998-2001. The incidence of paracetamol-induced liver failure, severity of patients' illness, and outcome did not differ between the groups. Patients with paracetamol-induced acute liver failure had higher Carstairs scores (1.99 [95% CI 1.33-2.65]; n=190) than patients with non-paracetamol acute liver failure (0.02 [-0.79 to 0.84]; n=68). We have shown an association between paracetamol-induced acute liver failure and social deprivation.

 

[liftsiron]

Tylonel kills more people in a year from liver and kidney failure, than oral steroids have from their inception.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Look, I'm not bashing juicers. I'm juiced up myself. But I'm positive juice was the cause of his problems. His doctor is positive too. This happened a few months ago, I just hadn't heard from him in a while. He said within a month of quitting his cycle his belirubin (sp?) and enzyme levels returned to normal. Follow the logic, he's taking a steroid that is toxic to the liver and has liver problems. He then quits taking the steroid and his liver returns to normal. Therefore it is highly likely that the steroids caused the liver problems.

 

[luv2lift!]

I would say he wasn't taking care of his body correctly. There is supps to help with your liver. Elevated liver enzymes are quite normal while cycling. It could have been caused from drinking while on cycle, not drinking enough fluids, etc. Don't blame it on steroids.

L2L

 

[me2dammit]

hey

shit happens, 99 out of 100 people can get stung by a be and be fine, the 100th might be allergic and go into shock and die.

Same with medicines and drugs, shit happens. Thats why they have doctors look people over before they prescibe drugs, but no one can be 100% sure how a persons body will react to a substance.

 

[Bigass]

I find this hard to believe it was from AAS alone. I realise everyone is different, but I have used 10 dbol/day along with 120mg of Accutane/day and my liver enzymes were slightly elevated but within normal range.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Yep...I pretty much lived on winny for several months, along with clenbuterol in high doses, every day. Add to this the fact that I rolled every Friday and Saturday, lots of pills...LOTS of pills, people, and finally that I was not taking ANY protective measures whatsoever. Is it any surprise I wound up with hep? I also maintained a sub-6% bodyfat, year-round, and I took tons of diphenhydramine to sleep because I ran short of G those months.

I shot between 50-100mg every day of winny for at least six months.

Yeah, I fucked up. Never again.

 

[Fonz]

Yep...I pretty much lived on winny for several months, along with clenbuterol in high doses, every day. Add to this the fact that I rolled every Friday and Saturday, lots of pills...LOTS of pills, people, and finally that I was not taking ANY protective measures whatsoever. Is it any surprise I wound up with hep? I also maintained a sub-6% bodyfat, year-round, and I took tons of diphenhydramine to sleep because I ran short of G those months.

I shot between 50-100mg every day of winny for at least six months.

Yeah, I fucked up. Never again.

I'm dropping winny.

I'm on Week 26 of Fina and liver values are just slightly elevated.

Much safer.

Fonz

 

[Latamier]

It does not suprise me at all that the AAS were the cause. Especially if he was on Anadrol. This is just another example of people doing things that they dont understand. I was talking to a guy in his mid 30s a couple months ago who needed help running some anadrol. He was getting ready to use it the same way you take Anavar. He had no clue as to what he had or what he was doing. I would have loved to have seen a liver work up on this guy after doing Anadrol for 8 weeks on a dosage of Anavar. This is how people die. Just like the kid who was taking GHB and died, bringing all the attention to Elite across the country. If you dont know much about a drug, please ask somebody here or at least do some research before you take it. This is only common sence guys.

 

[Fonz]

It does not suprise me at all that the AAS were the cause. Especially if he was on Anadrol. This is just another example of people doing things that they dont understand. I was talking to a guy in his mid 30s a couple months ago who needed help running some anadrol. He was getting ready to use it the same way you take Anavar. He had no clue as to what he had or what he was doing. I would have loved to have seen a liver work up on this guy after doing Anadrol for 8 weeks on a dosage of Anavar. This is how people die. Just like the kid who was taking GHB and died, bringing all the attention to Elite across the country. If you dont know much about a drug, please ask somebody here or at least do some research before you take it. This is only common sence guys.

Just one correction,

It was DNP not GHB the kid died from.

Fonz