My body's response to gear

[ryno9000]

Sorry guys, I know I have been making a lot of posts lately - I try to answer others as well to balance out my need for answers with other's.

So this is something that I've been wondering for awhile - why does my body respond, or in some ways NOT respond, to steroids like most do? Before I dive in, let me just say this: I KNOW MY STUFF IS LEGITIMATE AND PROPERLY DOSED.

Here are some things that I feel are "different" about my body's response:

- I can run up to 750mg/wk of Test E for an entire cycle and never have to use an AI. I have seemingly NO gyno susceptibility and I really don't bloat. I use an AI once in awhile as I notice it will increase my libido and erection firmness, but other than that I really don't seem to need one. I always take a photo of my face before cycle so I can compare and make sure I haven't gradually bloated and just not noticed, but I don't get moon faced or have puffy soft muscles. I stay lean and hard looking at high doses of test.

- I never get HUGE. Here is the thing - when most people, even experienced lifters, guess my weight they guess around 210ish. I am RARELY over 200lbs, even on cycle. I look good, have a good build, but even high steroid doses and HIGH CALORIE DIET don't take me above a certain level. I've stayed on for long periods of time doing everything I could to bulk, and it's like I'm capped. You can take shots saying I don't know how to eat, that I'm not doing something right, but I'm a knowledgeable dude and bust my ass when it comes to eating and lifting and resting. Those are priorities in my life. I'm not complaining, I make good gains, my body transforms, and I'm always making some sort of progress, but I don't get above a certain weight on the scale. I also don't gain 30lbs per cycle like some. Maybe that has to do with my lack of bloating (see above).

- my blood pressure is healthy even when "on" high doses. Been to the dr. on crazy cycle doses and my blood pressure and resting hr were both at athletic levels.

I'm not saying I don't get side effects or that steroids don;t work on me. I'm just saying I feel slightly A-Typical when it comes to effects that almost everyone else should/does see. Does my body convert it differently? Am I super human and need to run multiple grams per week?! Am I short on receptors? I feel like maybe this IS more common, but people don't want to "admit" it as they are worried they will be told something they don't want to hear. I don't know. Thoughts at all?

 

[zedhed]

Give us more info on you man. Full stats, diet details and workout details plz.

 

[ryno9000]

Give us more info on you man. Full stats, diet details and workout details plz.

I've been around longer than you - what are YOUR stats! Jk -


I'm 26. 5'11" Today I weighed 197 after my workout. I was pinched by two different trainers and the average between the two was 9.1% bf. This is standard - I am not cutting for anything I am just naturally built lean.

Right now I am eating as close as possible to 4700 calories/day. I am a trainer, so I have access to easy food logging systems and keep track of everything daily. I eat as close as possible to 45/35/20 ratio as I can. Sometimes I stray and follow my cravings and eat real shitty - but for the most part I have better than average consistency.

Training routine varies - and different variables effect it. When I am "ON" I'll go 6 days week, usually with a 3 day split that is repeated twice/wk but with different goals for the workout. For example Tuesday might be heavy compound leg movements where Friday is more direct isolated leg movements. Always heavy but controlled.

I'd post some pics but right this minute I don't feel like opening an acct on some online photo logging site - maybe tomorrow. Plus I always fear someone will "recognize" me here, so I'll prob blur the face.

Some interesting facts that may explain why I "look big" but actually don't weigh very much. I have tiny bones. I mean really. You wouldn't look at me and think I am small boned, but then put your hand up to mine. Your wife's hands will probably be equal or larger. My wrists are very narrow. But I have lots of muscle on my frame, so it isn't easily noticed. I've realized this as a potential blessing for competition! I could compete in a lower weight class and looks like a giant! This is something I've been shooting for, and hope to do a show this fall if I decide I have the guts and discipline.

Also, to tell the truth, I was a late bloomer. I feel I looked average-ish growing up - never significantly younger or smaller than my peers, but I think my face/body really matured to looking like I "should" when I got into bodybuilding and started producing more hormones. Even still, it wsan't until I began using steroids that I REALLY looked my age and healthy for once. I'm not going to be shy here, I believe I am naturally hypogonadal to some degree and probably have lower than average Test/GH levels than most. When I started using steroids, everyone gave me credit for how much "healthier I seem!" "You just look better and seem like you've grown into yourself!" This was in my 20's. And I didn't become a "freak" like some can get on steroids - I am just very muscular. Sadly, there are many of you out there who are more so NATURALLY than I am ON.

Maybe this helps? I doubt I will get an answer on here that says "this is why your body responds the way it does." I just think it would be interesting to see if others feel they have a cap on growth, or if they also don't get certain expected effects from gear such as bloating, high blood pressure, etc.

 

[neilium21]

i hear u bro i can never seem to get passed 220 and ill be eating up to 6000 cals a day...ppl think im around 240 when im 220 but im not....sometimes i even drop to like 215 even tho i still look bigger, its frustrating

 

[Unrest]

I put it down to a genitcally petite frame, small wrists, small joints, etc
not having a go, this can be great aesthetically!! but if you wanna be a freak, it will be a harder battle than someone whos more swayed towards a natural endo/meso type physique!
from my experience its usually these guys that struggle to get freaky as genetics simply will not let them!
a buddy of mine is exactly like you, run countless cycles, diet is downpat, i know his training is solid too cause i train with him, he still manages to get stronger on cycle but can never really gain much more size and hold on to it! dont get me wrong he looks awesome and lean! and looks like he weighs alot more than he really does!
btw
In regards to your bloating and BP,
I put this strongly down to diet!
being at 9 percent keeps bloat down significantly as does a clean diet as im sure you know!
You obviously eat clean being a trainer? or do you like to dirty bulk?

btw Howd you go with your thyroid isssues mate??????

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

You need to eat more.

Unless you have a medical condition that prevents that.

You need to eat more.

4700 calories a day to me is a joke.

I've read about alot of powerlifter's and bodybuilders that bulked for years to get huge and we're talking 6-7-8,000 calories a day. Even more for guys with fast metabolisms.

Now if your body is in a state of constant overtraining this can so deplete the body that gaining weight even on a high caloric intake can be difficult, but it doesn't sound like this is the issue.

So regardless of how much you think you know I can tell you right now you are not eating enough.

You sounds like an ecto-mesomorph meaning small bones and fast metabolism, but perhaps good proportions and build. If this is the case your metabolism is fucking SKY HIGH.

If you are eating 4700 calories a day and have 10% or less bodyfat then you simply have to eat more to gain weight.

It's as simple as that.

I actually feel for ya because I have known guys that had to eat massive quantities of calories to get up there in weight and do this for extended periods of time. It's not fun trying to eat 6k calories a day of healthy bodybuilding food which is why so many guys that are trying to get BIG eat as much tasty crap as they do healthy food to get the calories in without driving themselves crazy eating massive quantities of monotonous food.

 

[lartinos]

Probably convert test to DHT at a high rate I'd guess. Would explain the lack of bloat/gyno.

 

[stevesmi]

what would help is if you post some pics. what you think and what your friends think might not be reality.

at your height, weight and bf% you probably look good. your goals are to put on mass? well I would recommend running a deca cycle, kickstarting it with dbol.

 

[panicwide]

I just kept growing on gear, even with a terrible diet. But, maybe not enough time on to reach a certain ceiling. A customs letter caused my gains to halt after 2nd cycle. natural until 30 years old. 2 years clean, but on the hunt again.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[Nelson Montana]

Just as some people have better natural genetics, some people have better "genetics" in regard to the way they response to steroids. You may simple have a high "resistance" to them. Some people need more anesthesia. Some people get high on one drink while others can have 3 or 4 and barely get a buzz.

You may also have a lot of SHBG. (UNLEASHED will help with that).

As far as weight, it's about protein, protein, protein. And calories.

 

[mryar]

I don't know if this is it, interesting read tho. Google for full version

Equal by Dan Gwartney, MD

When testosterone enters a cell (for the biology geeks, this is restricted to the genomic effects of testosterone), it binds with an androgen receptor. There are different co-factors in the various cell types (skeletal muscle, fat, liver, etc.) that either enhance or impair the ability of the receptor to connect with and stimulate the cell to respond. These co-factors attach onto the testosterone-androgen receptor complex and travel as a unit to the nucleus, and bind to the chromosomes (DNA) at specific androgen response elements— think of it as assigned parking spaces. The complex then dimerizes (pairs up with another complex) to actually turn on the testosterone-sensitive genes.
Genes are information; they do not function as anything other than data storage. In order for the information they contain to become new cell structures or change function, the information has to re-enter the cell in a form that the machinery of the cell can understand. This occurs through transcription. Transcription creates a ‘chemical memo,’ or instructions from the head office. The longer the CAG repeat, the higher the degree of separation, and the less likely the message is to be affected.
Of course, the interest of bodybuilders and athletes is any effect of CAG repeats on physical performance or body composition. Men with longer CAG repeats suffer from all sorts of performance handicaps compared to their short-CAG cohorts. Lengthening of CAG repeats may contribute toward decreased muscle mass, increased body fat, weaker bones, decreased aggressiveness, increased depression, reduced insulin sensitivity, and harm cardiovascular health through elevations in heart rate and blood pressure.12,16
Some interesting observations were noted. There is a racial trend in CAG repeat length; with men of African descent having fewer CAG repeats, followed by Caucasians, then East Asians.

 

[axismundi]

I say you are just a Lance Armstrong type. *nods*

 

[C0LUMB0]

I doubt its a case of super-human resilience to AAS, more likely a diet issue as previous posters have said.

what about trying GOMAD !

1 gallon of 2% low fat milk will bump your daily intake by 2000 calories.

140g of protein
210g of carbs
60g of fat

If that dont put weight on you....nothing will !

 

[ryno9000]

I doubt its a case of super-human resilience to AAS, more likely a diet issue as previous posters have said.

what about trying GOMAD !

1 gallon of 2% low fat milk will bump your daily intake by 2000 calories.

140g of protein
210g of carbs
60g of fat

If that dont put weight on you....nothing will !

Oh come on Columbo - a gallon of milk is the oldest trick in the book! Of course milk is the base to my bulking! I even used to do whole milk, but decided it was just too much fat content - more than necessary. I said I am CURRENTLY at 4700/day. I have gone higher. 4700 to me is a good number above daily expenditure but not SO high that it all becomes fat.

 

[C.K.]

Test is great for libido and a lil strength but that's about it...

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ find a local dairy farmer if you are gonna go the milk route. the pasteurized milk crap they sell in the store has been nuked to shreds. very little nutrients left.

personally I do not mess with milk.. i get goat yogurt from a local farmer, thats it.

 

[illkickurass]

I think you just need to lift bigger. Remember training is more important than even the roids. I am the same height as you and have very small bones as well but I am 223(with low bf never measure) and I haven't even done roids yet.

 

[Dogfox]

I think you just need to lift bigger. Remember training is more important than even the roids. I am the same height as you and have very small bones as well but I am 223(with low bf never measure) and I haven't even done roids yet.

That you in the pics?

 

[ryno9000]

Test is great for libido and a lil strength but that's about it...

I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic. That kind of comment can get you lynched on this board - however I AGREE with it to some degree. The whole TEST is KING mentality doesn't hold 100% true. I mean - it's the best in that it IS what is in your body - but there are stronger and more effective things out there, they just come at a slightly higher cost. Also, test is the most suppressive thing out there, since it is replacing EXACTLY what you body produces, not a close cousin.

Anyway I saw this quote on someone's sig that came from Nelson, which would be true in my case: "Simple rule -- the more you grow natty, the more overall size you'll gain with steroids. And if you cycle, you'll keep more of your gains." Nelson Montana

- I did my first (shitty) cycle at 19. I was in a fraternity, wanted to keep up with the older studs on spring break, and the rest is history. I was like 150lb diahrea body. Oops!

 

[C0LUMB0]

Oh come on Columbo - a gallon of milk is the oldest trick in the book! Of course milk is the base to my bulking! I even used to do whole milk, but decided it was just too much fat content - more than necessary. I said I am CURRENTLY at 4700/day. I have gone higher. 4700 to me is a good number above daily expenditure but not SO high that it all becomes fat.

Just my 2 cents my good man.

you didnt post-up your diet so i didnt know if you were drinking cow juice or not.

 

[C.K.]

I'm just saying unless it's your first cycle you're not gonna get huge just running test alone it's better stacked with something there are alot more orals that pack on mass way better then test in a way shorter time frame I put 20 lbs on a solo winny cycle and only 5 each on my last 2 test cycles... I don't quote anything just speak from personal experience... test probably makes you feel the best but gaining mass,strength and losing fat wise there are ALOT more superior compounds... I've ran 500-1000 mgs a week and prefer just sticking to maintanence levels now during cycle only 1 shot sust a week

 

[stevesmi]

^^yeah bro I think we all put on the most weight from our first cycles no matter what we used. the challenge is if you can keep them. i will say primo is as good as advertised with keeping your gains. there just isn't the crash like other AAS, but you won't get ridiculous gains. very little or no sides either.

so whoever is reading this thread who wants something with very little sides and quick recovery gotta go with primo hands down.

 

[Couter]

Cant help you out with your question but after reading your original post in this thread your lucky not have any bloat or gyno issues. I look at a picture of a bottle of test and both magically appear. Well not that bad but you get my point.

 

[Deltoid_87]

come on man seriously, thats ur opinion and nothing more

test is probably the best AAS all around, aslong as you got something for estrogen control (e.g a A.I) the stuff is freakin awesome

And that's nothing but ur opinion bro.. All u'v done is contradicted urself there.

and its been proven in studies time and time again to be an effective AAS, if not one of the most effective

it beats deca, mast, eq, dbol, anadrol and any other AAS in muscle building properties

That's the biggest load of bollucks i've ever heard. All the compounds u just mentioned there are known to build more muscle than Test. Apart from maybe Masteron. "and any other AAS in muscle building properties" Riiigghht, yea Test builds more muscle than Tren too...

i know you might argue dbol is stronger mg basis, but lets face it theres only so much dbol you can use before things get nasty, and you can use ALOT more test

I dunno man, people use dbol for long periods of time with great results, ask Radar...

I'm with C.K. Test alone does barely anything for me as far as building muscle. Maybe it would at over 1000mg a week, but i'll never do that. Test is the "base" of a cycle for me and nothing more. Let's face it if all other steroids didn't suppress ur natural test levels, no one would use Test. Unless it were for libido, and other things unrelated to muscle growth, but that's not why we cycle is it...
I don't hate Test, I like it. Damn it makes me feel good, and libido is crazy, but I'm just gonna have to quote C.K and say there are far more superior steroids for building muscle.

 

[panicwide]

Test is the best imo, efficacy proven time and again. great gains, mood & libido lift. Tren is stronger, but harsher. Dbol is no slouch, but methylation alone is enough to make it second fiddle to inj. test.

 

[EarthRider]

Sounds like your not eating enough. How much cardio do you do. Maybe you posted that and I didn't catch it

 

[ryno9000]

Sounds like your not eating enough. How much cardio do you do. Maybe you posted that and I didn't catch it

I haven't done cardio in 26 years (I'm 26 years old). I stay in single digits by eating right and lifting heavy. I'm sure genetics help.

Here is what I don't understand - maybe someone can shed some light for me here. I eat as close as I can to a 45/35/20 ratio. Of course it fluctuates a bit, for I don't take my carbs too far above 50% ever as I am super body conscious and within a few days of certain changes I notice fat begin to deposit around my belly. I allow it to a certain degree as fat will increase when you are in calorie surplus, but I never want to just gorge until I get super fat just to gain mass.

So my bulking diet is usually about 5000-5500 calories - give or take a heavy cheat day per week. Ok - so eating in than range, my body is getting about 618 grams of carbs ,480 grams of protein and 122 grams of fat spaced across the day. PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of macronutrients to grow. In fact such surplus that I begin to get slight fat deposits (again, I DO understand that while bulking you will get fatter). Increasing my calories into the 6-8,000 range is absurd to me for several reasons. One - my body will be absorbing what it can and then storing the rest as adipose tissue. So any surplus calorie I consume, be it carb, protein or fat, will become fat. In which case what does it matter what I eat if the result is the same? Eating asparagus and plain chicken breast in that kind of calorie surplus is going to be converted the same as fried chicken and ice cream. So why bother eating clean?

Anyway - the point of my thread here was not a complaint of any type. I love not bloating or having to use an AI. Overall, I am happy with my build, and I am happy with the strength and appearance that I have. I'm not whining about not being "a big boy." Simply saying I find it odd that I personally don't get several of the MOST COMMON steroid side effects - and wondered what it was. My question for that was answered at least in part. Good posts by everyone, I love this site and love guys taking the time to state their experience and education into these things. I learn a lot from all of you.

 

[Dogfox]

what percentage of saturated fats do you eat? what percentage of your carbs are fiber, what percentage are sugars? how many large protein sources do you get? what are your carb sources? what are your fat sources?

Have you ever tried eating around 1000 carbs a day? or at least more than you do. sounds alot but we cannot use the protein without carbs, I say try eating 300-400 more carbs on your workout days (morning and PWO being optimum) and maybe even a little more fat (around 25 grams).

I would eat 6500 cals with a little over 1000 carbs to put weight on a 175lb frame so you can definitely handle those extra cals on training days especially if you are really single digits all the time. If it really bothers you eating that many carbs try and get them in before evening rolls around/darkness falls

 

[bren565]

And that's nothing but ur opinion bro.. All u'v done is contradicted urself there.



That's the biggest load of bollucks i've ever heard. All the compounds u just mentioned there are known to build more muscle than Test. Apart from maybe Masteron. "and any other AAS in muscle building properties" Riiigghht, yea Test builds more muscle than Tren too...



I dunno man, people use dbol for long periods of time with great results, ask Radar...

I'm with C.K. Test alone does barely anything for me as far as building muscle. Maybe it would at over 1000mg a week, but i'll never do that. Test is the "base" of a cycle for me and nothing more. Let's face it if all other steroids didn't suppress ur natural test levels, no one would use Test. Unless it were for libido, and other things unrelated to muscle growth, but that's not why we cycle is it...
I don't hate Test, I like it. Damn it makes me feel good, and libido is crazy, but I'm just gonna have to quote C.K and say there are far more superior steroids for building muscle.

radar mixes them with his cornflakes...

and uses them in place of nolva. trust me dbols can be used alot!

 

[illkickurass]

Well I sure as hell hope test puts on serious muscle, because it's about to be my first cycle.

 

[EarthRider]

I don't know how you guys can eat that much food in one day. I like to eat a lot, but those are crazy numbers.

 

[ryno9000]

i don't know how you guys can eat that much food in one day. I like to eat a lot, but those are crazy numbers.

+1.

 

[C.K.]

I've been sleeping to hard and missing my midnight protein shakes arrrrghhhh!!!!

 

[stevesmi]

I don't know how you guys can eat that much food in one day. I like to eat a lot, but those are crazy numbers.

when you are burning so much fuel with intense workouts you have no choice.

if I am on a mass cycle using deca and test I eat for two. when I go to a restaurant I order 2 entrees.. no joke.

I've noticed I cannot eat like that after cycle, I just don't have the same kind of appetite.

 

[RADAR]

radar mixes them with his cornflakes...

and uses them in place of nolva. trust me dbols can be used alot!

Dbol isn't as harsh as most people think ,but its a good practice to A-drink lots of water,B-Take Liver Cleansers,C-ala and cranberry extract



And the older you get the easier it is to put on muscle due to a slower metabolism, However in some cases thats easier said than done.

 

[Joel H]

I haven't done cardio in 26 years (I'm 26 years old). I stay in single digits by eating right and lifting heavy. I'm sure genetics help.

Here is what I don't understand - maybe someone can shed some light for me here. I eat as close as I can to a 45/35/20 ratio. Of course it fluctuates a bit, for I don't take my carbs too far above 50% ever as I am super body conscious and within a few days of certain changes I notice fat begin to deposit around my belly. I allow it to a certain degree as fat will increase when you are in calorie surplus, but I never want to just gorge until I get super fat just to gain mass.

So my bulking diet is usually about 5000-5500 calories - give or take a heavy cheat day per week. Ok - so eating in than range, my body is getting about 618 grams of carbs ,480 grams of protein and 122 grams of fat spaced across the day. PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of macronutrients to grow. In fact such surplus that I begin to get slight fat deposits (again, I DO understand that while bulking you will get fatter). Increasing my calories into the 6-8,000 range is absurd to me for several reasons. One - my body will be absorbing what it can and then storing the rest as adipose tissue. So any surplus calorie I consume, be it carb, protein or fat, will become fat. In which case what does it matter what I eat if the result is the same? Eating asparagus and plain chicken breast in that kind of calorie surplus is going to be converted the same as fried chicken and ice cream. So why bother eating clean?

Anyway - the point of my thread here was not a complaint of any type. I love not bloating or having to use an AI. Overall, I am happy with my build, and I am happy with the strength and appearance that I have. I'm not whining about not being "a big boy." Simply saying I find it odd that I personally don't get several of the MOST COMMON steroid side effects - and wondered what it was. My question for that was answered at least in part. Good posts by everyone, I love this site and love guys taking the time to state their experience and education into these things. I learn a lot from all of you.

You keep defending your diet when that is what the problem is. It's really quite simple. If you do not gain weight for a week, increase your calories by 500 and maintain that until weight gains halt. Weight will come on. Now if it's pure fat you are gaining, then your at the wall or genetic limit. But really it sounds like your scared of gaining any fat so you reduce calories before you even get anywhere. Be prepared to put on 2" on your stomach, then cut it off. It's called a bulk. Hopefully at the end when the 2" is shed you have gained some lean mass and weigh more/measure bigger.

Also due to high food volume intake your stomach can be bigger but it's not really fat gains, it's just bloated from higher calories. I have small bones and I'm 220 all natural. I've been 230 before. Not real lean but not too bad. But I struggled for years thinking I was eating enough, but once I got the diet sorted and realized every few pounds you gain you have to increase calories AGAIN to keep growing because your metabolism increases... well before long I was eating 6000 calories a day to get to 230.

The other thing I can suggest is to increase your set volume, and do some cardio (just a little) to help increase your appetite. There is a magic # of volume for me that kicks up my appetite and I grow best at, and it's about 10-12 sets per body part.

Whenever I'm stuck but feel like eating more is impossible, I switch from skim to 1 or 2% milk and the pounds start coming on.