MS -- glucophage...?

[Sassy69]

Hey MS -- I've been reading some of the posts and refs about glucophage & you've mentioned it a number of times as a potential life extension supp. I can follow most of the research posted around these boards re: type II diabetics, however I get lost in some of the stuff about being insulin resistant for the typical person.

Can you clarify....

- is glucophage something your typical chick trying to lose some bf could use?
- only real sides result if you happen to already suffer from kidney problems (resulting in lactic acidosis and/or renal failure)?
- Assuming it is safe to use as w/ other supps, how would one dose it, schedule dosages & diet around it? (considering insulin response & carb eating are tightly related)

My general direction of questions is use or usefulness of glucophage to the non-diabetic.

Any & all thoughts welcome!

 

[MS]

The key to optimal fatloss OR optimal mass addition is to get nutrients into your muscles (and keep them there) without elevating blood glucose levels any more than necessary. It appears this is a similar recipe for general good health into old age. This can be accomplished in many ways. IMHO the best way is to eat a diet with a very low GI, and not too high in saturated fats. This will help keep your natural glucose disposal systems highly sensitized so that drugs are not needed. However, if you wish to eat a more modern Western diet, then the addition of drugs such as metformin, ALA. etc.... may be beneficial.

"- is glucophage something your typical chick trying to lose some bf could use?"

Probably, assuming your typical chick that needs to lose fat will already have some degree of insulin insensitivity and poor diet. And without a doubt, it improves the risk of diabetic complications in women with condtitions such as PCOS, which may be as high as 10% of the American adult female population. But again lifestyle interventions would be my first choice in these cases.

I'm not convinced that it would be that much help to an already lean chick on a typical high protein, low fat, mod carb, high fiber, low GI cutting diet. A woman such as this should already have pretty sensitive glucose disposal mechanisms. I would definitely recommend it if you're doing any kind of a high fat keto diet though. As a side note to this concept is the epidemiological evidence that female athletes who stay lean and athletic into older age do not develop the typical decrease in insulin sensitivity which is considered the 'normal' hallmark of an ageing population. Food for thought?

 

[Sassy69]

Food for thought?

And its LUNCHTIME!

Thanks for the clarification! Still absorbing it all within the bigger picture of diet, etc.

How do you know if you are "insulin sensitive"?

 

[NY Muscle]

Glucophage really sucks, Im not sure why people still praise this drug, back in the day when i used to experiment around with Dan Duchaine, Metformin was his baby until he realized it wasnt all that good and had side effects, he then told me to try Tolbutamide, which I thought was phenominal, you could even try Glipizide, but I used to get low blood sugar crashes on that like injecting insulin would, so it is strong stuff.


i think Tolbuatmide comes in 500mg tabs and i THINK Glipizide is like 5mg? not positive.

 

[wilson6]

"Glucophage really sucks"

I have to agree. Unless you're a Type II diabetic and really need it, Metformin will cause nothing but problems. I know a few women BBs that tried it back when Duchaine discussed it, but it didn't do anything to alter body comp and just made them nauseous. If anything, it was detrimental to their workouts.

Metformin increases perpheral insulin sensitivity, decreases hepatic glucose output and limits to some degree, glucose uptake in the intestine. All this can be accomplished with a low glycemic index carb diet and exercise in most individuals.

Highly trained, already lean individuals have nothing to gain by taking Metformin.

While insulin is an anabolic hormone, remember it is anti-lipolytic in VERY small amounts. It shuts down fat oxidation faster than stepping in a fresh pile of dog crap on a hot day shuts down your appetite. Therefore, if you already have normal insulin sensitivity, why try and increase it.

Lastly, glucophage decreases the conversion of pyruvate to lactate. While lactic acidosis is rare with glucophage, under conditions of tissue hypoxia (i.e., a high-intensity workout) when lactate levels are already running high, glucophage could further increase La and at the very least, cause early fatigue.

Personally, given the amount of physical activity that most of you engage in on this board (both aerobic and resistance exercise), even if you're carrying more bodyfat or your diet isn't optimal, I would be hard pressed to imagine that anyone is truly insulin insensitive to the point where Metformin would be of any benefit. Even those using modest amounts of AAS and/or GH.

W6

 

[Fonz]

"Glucophage really sucks"

I have to agree. Unless you're a Type II diabetic and really need it, Metformin will cause nothing but problems. I know a few women BBs that tried it back when Duchaine discussed it, but it didn't do anything to alter body comp and just made them nauseous. If anything, it was detrimental to their workouts.

Metformin increases perpheral insulin sensitivity, decreases hepatic glucose output and limits to some degree, glucose uptake in the intestine. All this can be accomplished with a low glycemic index carb diet and exercise in most individuals.

Highly trained, already lean individuals have nothing to gain by taking Metformin.

While insulin is an anabolic hormone, remember it is anti-lipolytic in VERY small amounts. It shuts down fat oxidation faster than stepping in a fresh pile of dog crap on a hot day shuts down your appetite. Therefore, if you already have normal insulin sensitivity, why try and increase it.

Lastly, glucophage decreases the conversion of pyruvate to lactate. While lactic acidosis is rare with glucophage, under conditions of tissue hypoxia (i.e., a high-intensity workout) when lactate levels are already running high, glucophage could further increase La and at the very least, cause early fatigue.

Personally, given the amount of physical activity that most of you engage in on this board (both aerobic and resistance exercise), even if you're carrying more bodyfat or your diet isn't optimal, I would be hard pressed to imagine that anyone is truly insulin insensitive to the point where Metformin would be of any benefit. Even those using modest amounts of AAS and/or GH.

W6

I have one word for you ladies:

PHENFORMIN

8X stronger than metformin. MUCH better.

Fonz