Making changes to how Karma works - we want your feedback.

[George Spellwin]

Members,

We are thinking about making some changes to the Karma System and want to get your feedback.

As you realized, the main problem with the Karma System as it currently stands now is that it is very inflationary. And I can see the system getting overwhelmed at some point in the future. For the future, we need to make sure that the Karma System does not disenfranchise the bodybuilding core. They are all but powerless against the professional K-bros in Chat.

These are the ideas I liked best from the ones you and the Mods suggested. These are still ideas at this point and are open for comment. I may implement some, all, or none of them. Your comments on these ideas are appreciated. At this time, a second currency is too hard to implement technically.

1. Karma Bookie: We need to make this more like a real world sports book by adding 10% juice to the amounts wagered. The juice goes to the house, in this case EF.

2. Everyone needs to be able to have fun with Karma immediately when they join EF, so we can raise the number of hits you get when you register from 10 to 100.

3. Because of inflation, when you buy Karma, currently your money does not get you enough. We'll keep prices the same, but you'll get much more Karma when you invest in it. For example:

5000 Hits plus 5000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $9.97
Karma - 20,000 Hits plus 20,000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $19.97
Karma - 50,000 Hits plus 50,000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $39.97
Karma - 150,000 Hits plus 150,000 Platinum Bonus! - Your Price: $98.97
Karma - 30,000 Hits plus 30,000 Platinum Bonus - Billed Month to Month - Your Price: $19.97

4. When your Platinum Membership renews, you need to get much more Karma for every month you invest in. For example, every monthly renewal, you get 5000 Karma hits. There will be bigger bonuses for renewing at longer intervals.

5. We will open a Karma Casino and finally bring you Karma Poker. (We are sorry this is taking so long - the problem is that we are having trouble finding good software.)

6. When you give someone Karma, you are giving them your own Karma, not minting more. Remember, since you get much more on Platinum Membership renewals and since it will effectively cost less if you buy it, this will be less of a sting. Non-Plats, would have 2 x Karmic Power subtracted from their total Karma Hits. Plats would have 1 x Karmic Power plus a 5% tax subtracted from Karma Hits. Another thing to remember is that Plats can still hit for between 10% and 110% of Karmic Power, so if your Plat, and you want to reward someone for a quality post, you can hit as little as 10% of your Karmic Power and won't feel a big dent in your war chest. Those with 0 Karmic Power would hit gray like they do now. This should also help us get back to hitting members only when they post something that is really quality. Things remain as they are now for Chairman Members including their hitting for 200% Karmic Power.

7. Karma Bonds: We will sell Karma Bonds in the Karma Store. You can buy bonds for any amount of Karma you choose and for any number of months you choose. When your Karma Bonds mature, they will be worth 1% more for every month you held the bond for. Here's an example, you buy a 1 million Karma Bond and hold it for 1 year. When it matures, you get 1,120,000 Karma Hits.

8. Adjust the Karma Point Factor. Right now, for every 4000 points of Karma for Non-Plats and 2000 hits of Karma for Plats, you gain 1 point of Karmic Power. We can raise the requirement.

9. Move the decimal point two place to the left for members with more than 1,000 Karma. This should really not make anyone upset since everyone's Karma is impacted equally.

10. Allow members to buy 1 year bonds and run a huge Karma Lottery before the decimal place is moved - with the award to be paid out after the change. You buy lottery tickets @ 1 Karma Hit = 1 ticket. From the amount of tickets bought, 30% of the total goes to 1st place, 20% to second place, 10% to third place. Your chance of winning is in proportion to the number of tickets you buy.

11. Sell limited edition EF T-Shirts for 500,000 Karma Hits plus $4.99 shipping and handling.

 

[nycgirl]

Oh, I love the K Bond idea.

 

[Cutiebaby]

George, sounds good. You are the creator.It is after all only green dots!
However for girls can we get the tank tops if we choose to? What about thongs?

 

[needtogetaas]

there gos the fun with all the k.there is no way to get more unless you by it now.

 

[George Spellwin]

there gos the fun with all the k.there is no way to get more unless you by it now.

Not true, you can still get more in all the same ways, the only difference is that the "more" comes from someone's own account not from nowhere. I think this is a good idea. People will be more likely to reward quality posts instead of "Good bro!" posts since it means something now.

 

[needtogetaas]

Not true, you can still get more in all the same ways, the only difference is that the "more" comes from someone's own account not from nowhere. I think this is a good idea. People will be more likely to reward quality posts instead of "Good bro!" posts since it means something now.

lol dont think i have ever got k that way.might have to try that some day.

well it shore dos make what k I have now worth a lot more to me.some one is going to have to make one hell of a post to get k from me.lol

 

[awittyusername]

Your original Idea for Karma was great, but it was destroyed by k hoes

I wish there was some way to enforce only give k for someone based on their post...not if they hit you everday.

 

[needtogetaas]

btw george.no matter what you do with the k around here I will still be here.I love this place and it all about they k.k is fun but even if there was no k I would still come here evry day.

 

[Cutiebaby]

george dear, maybe the tank top shirt thingy idea should be for less karma? Just a thought.

 

[Behemoth]

I dont like Number 6 at all.

The handing out of Karma will cease. Rewards will go away period. Because if I can spend my karma on the bookie forum or playing poker...then why would I give it away.

Not to mention it puts new guys at a disadvantage. They definitely wont be getting any hits if cost a veteran his k.

Bad idea. A lot of things have changed since I've been gone...some good...some bad...but I really do not like this idea.

 

[slat1]

I don't know why but this much thought being put into karma makes me want to drop my membership.
I come to the site to support others with their dieting, bodybuilding etc.
Karma is fun. When I see it given this much attention it gives me the impression the site is not what I thought it was.
That is just my innitial response.

 

[black sheep]

I like #6 the best... Oh wait.. That is because it was MY IDEA

 

[slat1]

How can Elite take 10% on a bet and call it the juice. Unless you bookie the event you are risking nothing and therefor have no right to the juice. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[sawastea]

1. Karma Bookie: We need to make this more like a real world sports book by adding 10% juice to the amounts wagered. The juice goes to the house, in this case EF.

So, figurtively speaking, if you bet ATS on a game and a bookie has the even as 9/10, for every 10 karma you spend, you'll get 9 back. Now, if we get taxed an additional 10%, what point is there is betting on any event with 20% juice? I don't like the idea because the bookie, 4everhung, redguru, swole, and myself included, have already figured in the juice in every day odds.

2. Everyone needs to be able to have fun with Karma immediately when they join EF, so we can raise the number of hits you get when you register from 10 to 100.

Sounds reasonable

3. Because of inflation, when you buy Karma, currently your money does not get you enough. We'll keep prices the same, but you'll get much more Karma when you invest in it. For example:

5000 Hits plus 5000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $9.97
Karma - 20,000 Hits plus 20,000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $19.97
Karma - 50,000 Hits plus 50,000 Platinum Bonus - Your Price: $39.97
Karma - 150,000 Hits plus 150,000 Platinum Bonus! - Your Price: $98.97
Karma - 30,000 Hits plus 30,000 Platinum Bonus - Billed Month to Month - Your Price: $19.97

ok

4. When your Platinum Membership renews, you need to get much more Karma for every month you invest in. For example, every monthly renewal, you get 5000 Karma hits. There will be bigger bonuses for renewing at longer intervals.

How about those who invested in lifetime plat? Do we get an additional 5K per month?

5. We will open a Karma Casino and finally bring you Karma Poker. (We are sorry this is taking so long - the problem is that we are having trouble finding good software.)

6. When you give someone Karma, you are giving them your own Karma, not minting more. Remember, since you get much more on Platinum Membership renewals and since it will effectively cost less if you buy it, this will be less of a sting. Non-Plats, would have 2 x Karmic Power subtracted from their total Karma Hits. Plats would have 1 x Karmic Power plus a 5% tax subtracted from Karma Hits. Another thing to remember is that Plats can still hit for between 10% and 110% of Karmic Power, so if your Plat, and you want to reward someone for a quality post, you can hit as little as 10% of your Karmic Power and won't feel a big dent in your war chest. Those with 0 Karmic Power would hit gray like they do now. This should also help us get back to hitting members only when they post something that is really quality. Things remain as they are now for Chairman Members including their hitting for 200% Karmic Power.

Ok

7. Karma Bonds: We will sell Karma Bonds in the Karma Store. You can buy bonds for any amount of Karma you choose and for any number of months you choose. When your Karma Bonds mature, they will be worth 1% more for every month you held the bond for. Here's an example, you buy a 1 million Karma Bond and hold it for 1 year. When it matures, you get 1,120,000 Karma Hits.

Interesting

8. Adjust the Karma Point Factor. Right now, for every 4000 points of Karma for Non-Plats and 2000 hits of Karma for Plats, you gain 1 point of Karmic Power. We can raise the requirement.



9. Move the decimal point two place to the left for members with more than 1,000 Karma. This should really not make anyone upset since everyone's Karma is impacted equally.



10. Allow members to buy 1 year bonds and run a huge Karma Lottery before the decimal place is moved - with the award to be paid out after the change. You buy lottery tickets @ 1 Karma Hit = 1 ticket. From the amount of tickets bought, 30% of the total goes to 1st place, 20% to second place, 10% to third place. Your chance of winning is in proportion to the number of tickets you buy.

11. Sell limited edition EF T-Shirts for 500,000 Karma Hits plus $4.99 shipping and handling.

Pics of said shirts woul be cool but for 500,000, it better come in leather

 

[slat1]

I like #6 the best... Oh wait.. That is because it was MY IDEA

What happens if someone Red's you? Do you get their "k" in the amount of your "k" power?
It would not make sense if you didn't. Where would it go otherwise?

 

[black sheep]

What happens if someone Red's you? Do you get their "k" in the amount of your "k" power?
It would not make sense if you didn't. Where would it go otherwise?

I did not think of that.. Give me some time to chew on it..

 

[SoreArms]

I like the karma casino (lot's of people will definately have less K)
Not sure that taxing the bookies does any good
K prices are still a bit too high. Make it much mroe affordable and I bet K sales will greatly increase.

None of your other ideas really address the stated problem.

The only one I see that sort of makes sense and alleviates the problem for a while is moving the decimal over three places making 1000 = 1

 

[awittyusername]

LOL at slat asking 3 questions about K after saying he can't believe people care about it so much.

Slat, just think if we didn't have K...That would seriously cut down on your E-flirting ability.

 

[Deterass]

You could change #6 so it won't hurt as much by taking only half the amount of hits from our own Karma.

If i hit someone for 1600 then only charge me 800.

 

[Behemoth]

I like the karma casino (lot's of people will definately have less K)
Not sure that taxing the bookies does any good
K prices are still a bit too high. Make it much mroe affordable and I bet K sales will greatly increase.

None of your other ideas really address the stated problem.

The only one I see that sort of makes sense and alleviates the problem for a while is moving the decimal over three places making 1000 = 1

Easy for the wealthy to say...but some of us arent as priviledged...

I dont like it all...will definitely consider dropping my plat

 

[Deterass]

I can't wait for the Karma casino!

 

[black sheep]

I did not think of that.. Give me some time to chew on it..

Red should have a standard deduction amount. And that deduction should go to EF, not to the person hitting you with the red. Red should be worth 100 no matter what - If someone hits you with red, 100 points are deducted from your total.

Something along those lines. I could spend my whole life in the Anabolic board and get 50,000 karma. Then go over to the Chad board and make a post that 5 people diagree with and under the current system they could clean me out.

 

[SoreArms]

oh and I like the t-shirts for K

I'd definately get me one of those

 

[Cutiebaby]

oh and I like the t-shirts for K

I'd definately get me one of those

right same here. But dont you agree that it should be for cheaper?
maybe 100,000 instead of 500,000

 

[dullboy]

dullboy doesn't understand this whole karma thing.

it's like playing marbles.

so what if you win a lot of marbles, they're just fucking worthless marbles.

 

[Lestat]

good ideas.

lets get those t-shirts!

 

[Behemoth]

Reconsider the changes

 

[Cutiebaby]

george is ignoring my good idea. Oh well.

 

[blut wump]

#6 I can't see why I would reward any post or, at best, very infrequently and only in gratitude for personal assistance. I think this idea really, really sucks, mostly because it inhibits hitting. I would just comment in the thread that it was a good post. IMO, you really don't want to be discouraging hitting like this.

Do you want to get into a situation where people say "Give me Karma and I'll solve your problem"?

We discussed in the thread the aspect of moving the decimal point and I dislike that idea too for the reasons there stated.

 

[black sheep]

#9 will keep the rich rich, and the poor - poor. It just changes the amount of zeros, not the ratios

 

[George Spellwin]

I dont like Number 6 at all.

The handing out of Karma will cease. Rewards will go away period. Because if I can spend my karma on the bookie forum or playing poker...then why would I give it away.

Not to mention it puts new guys at a disadvantage. They definitely wont be getting any hits if cost a veteran his k.

Bad idea. A lot of things have changed since I've been gone...some good...some bad...but I really do not like this idea.

Think about it like this, since you are Plat and have Karmic Power of 93, you could give someone a 10% hit and it would cost you 9 Karma Hits out of your 67,000 total. That's not much to reward a good post.

 

[black sheep]

#6 I can't see why I would reward any post or, at best, very infrequently and only in gratitude for personal assistance. I think this idea really, really sucks, mostly because it inhibits hitting. I would just comment in the thread that it was a good post. IMO, you really don't want to be discouraging hitting like this.

Do you want to get into a situation where people say "Give me Karma and I'll solve your problem"?

We discussed in the thread the aspect of moving the decimal point and I dislike that idea too for the reasons there stated.

I disagree.

If treated like currency people would spend it wisely, not just throw it around like monopoly money.

 

[hamstershaver]

el o el

 

[George Spellwin]

I don't know why but this much thought being put into karma makes me want to drop my membership.
I come to the site to support others with their dieting, bodybuilding etc.
Karma is fun. When I see it given this much attention it gives me the impression the site is not what I thought it was.
That is just my innitial response.

This is a good point. When we came up with Karma, we did not know it would be so big. This is to try to get it back to where it used to be - a way for Plats to help the mods and for members to reward quality posts.

Last week, we uncovered, if you can believe it, a Karma Ponzi scheme - these ideas are designed to make the system more rational again.

 

[George Spellwin]

How about those who invested in lifetime plat? Do we get an additional 5K per month?

We would certainly do something for Lifers.

 

[nycgirl]

I have a non- K suggestion (while I have your attention).

Is it possible to create a calendar like thread (especially in the Women's Forum), so people can add their show (figure, bb, powerlifting) events with details just in case people would like to attend. Threads about meet-ups can be there as well.

Just a thought.

 

[pintoca]

good ideas.

lets get those t-shirts!

you know you really wanted to say thong instead cornbrolio

 

[George Spellwin]

Red should have a standard deduction amount. And that deduction should go to EF, not to the person hitting you with the red. Red should be worth 100 no matter what - If someone hits you with red, 100 points are deducted from your total.

Something along those lines. I could spend my whole life in the Anabolic board and get 50,000 karma. Then go over to the Chad board and make a post that 5 people diagree with and under the current system they could clean me out.

Exactly, that is the problem with the inflation that has happened.

 

[blut wump]

I disagree.

If treated like currency people would spend it wisely, not just throw it around like monopoly money.

Define spend.

We really don't want to get into a situation where people are trading/selling help and info for Karma. Worse still, someone might give help and then resent not getting some Karma from it. The idea sucks. Hitting is good, makes people feel happy and should be encouraged by the system.

 

[hamstershaver]

who came up with the idea to raise the hits you could give per day from 5 to 20 now up to 30?
who came up with the idea to increase everyones k power by including things like join date and post count, it used to be determined by k total
who came up with the idea to let plat members hit other members up to 110%?
who came up with the idea to lower the spread number from 40 to 15?
who came up with the idea to allow members to transfer their karma to another members account?
and you wonder where karma inflation came from?
the answer is admin
you created this monster and now you are complaining about how the members use it?

 

[George Spellwin]

#6 I can't see why I would reward any post or, at best, very infrequently and only in gratitude for personal assistance. I think this idea really, really sucks, mostly because it inhibits hitting. I would just comment in the thread that it was a good post. IMO, you really don't want to be discouraging hitting like this.

Right, the idea is to inhibit pointless hitting instead of rewarding quality posts.

 

[black sheep]

Define spend.

We really don't want to get into a situation where people are trading/selling help and info for Karma. Worse still, someone might give help and then resent not getting some Karma from it. The idea sucks. Hitting is good, makes people feel happy and should be encouraged by the system.

All the Karma inflation happened in Chat, and to be honest - there is no real useful info there. Maybe karma should only be allowed to be traded in certain forums...

At any rate - the C&C crowd has taken advantage of the Karma system and made it into something it was not designed to be.

 

[George Spellwin]

I have a non- K suggestion (while I have your attention).

Is it possible to create a calendar like thread (especially in the Women's Forum), so people can add their show (figure, bb, powerlifting) events with details just in case people would like to attend. Threads about meet-ups can be there as well.

Just a thought.

That is a good idea. You know, there is a calendar already - see the link at the bottom of the page. Please start a new thread on how we can make it better.

 

[black sheep]

Right, the idea is to inhibit pointless hitting instead of rewarding quality posts.

Exactly!

 

[black sheep]

People that threaten to drop their membership because they loose some green dots is... (What do you C&C Folks say?.....) GEIGH

 

[Deterass]

Red should have a standard deduction amount. And that deduction should go to EF, not to the person hitting you with the red. Red should be worth 100 no matter what - If someone hits you with red, 100 points are deducted from your total.

.

Hell no!

The red hits could stay the same way. I haven't seen many problems with abusing the Karma system with the red hits in C&C. In MOST cases we blast the spammers or just some asshole who deserved it.

 

[blut wump]

This is a good point. When we came up with Karma, we did not know it would be so big. This is to try to get it back to where it used to be - a way for Plats to help the mods and for members to reward quality posts.

Last week, we uncovered, if you can believe it, a Karma Ponzi scheme - these ideas are designed to make the system more rational again.

Indeed, I posted a thread about the pyramid scam and a mod locked it because the topic of conversation was Karma.

 

[George Spellwin]

who came up with the idea to raise the hits you could give per day from 5 to 20 now up to 30?
who came up with the idea to increase everyones k power by including things like join date and post count, it used to be determined by k total
who came up with the idea to let plat members hit other members up to 110%?
who came up with the idea to lower the spread number from 40 to 15?
who came up with the idea to allow members to transfer their karma to another members account?
and you wonder where karma inflation came from?
the answer is admin
you created this monster and now you are complaining about how the members use it?

hammy,

These are all good ideas. And this is just a dialog on the future of Karma.

 

[blut wump]

Right, the idea is to inhibit pointless hitting instead of rewarding quality posts.

The idea is clear, the implementation needs more thought. It doesn't encourage any hitting.

 

[blut wump]

All the Karma inflation happened in Chat, and to be honest - there is no real useful info there. Maybe karma should only be allowed to be traded in certain forums...

At any rate - the C&C crowd has taken advantage of the Karma system and made it into something it was not designed to be.

See Hammy's post. These past few months, Karma inflation has been encouraged.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I like 5 & 7

 

[black sheep]

I also find it funny that when GS hits me with Green for approving my post, I get 100. If a Karma whore disagreed with the same post I could end up with a 5k deduction (Or more!)

 

[eat big]

George, the bookie forum is already good as is. I'd rather see you raise the tax on karma donations in the karma store.

 

[blut wump]

I also find it funny that when GS hits me with Green for approving my post, I get 100. If a Karma whore disagreed with the same post I could end up with a 5k deduction (Or more!)

With great power comes great responsibility. No 'Karma whore' with a 5000 hit would do such a thing unless you were being of exceedingly poor conduct.

 

[blut wump]

George, the bookie forum is already good as is. I'd rather see you raise the tax on karma donations in the karma store.

Agreed, Bookie tax is getting towards mean.

 

[slat1]

LOL at slat asking 3 questions about K after saying he can't believe people care about it so much.

Slat, just think if we didn't have K...That would seriously cut down on your E-flirting ability.

Its not the size of my karma its the ocean motion!

 

[eat big]

Anybody else think #6 is going to cause people to make good posts but not award the other good ones?

 

[Outtlaw]

Exactly, that is the problem with the inflation that has happened.

GS,
You say you want to help the vets on the anabolic boards out. So I say, instead of focusing on karma, I think we should look at having something similar to the chairman of the board memberships to recognize all the vets (who are not mods) who consistently prove themselves by giving solid advice and helping others on the anabolic, training, and diet forums. We already have crown karma symbols… I say give the selected vets diamonds or something different to distinguish the experienced vets from the others.

And it needs to be something were ALL the proven vets should get the title. There should also maybe be some sort of requirement, like being with the site for a year or something. And not just one person should sit and decide who should get the vet titles, but have everybody who thinks they deserve it put in to be decided amongst all the mods (not mods of the chat boards).

Then the karma doesn’t matter so much because you know who is an experienced vet as opposed to some joe that’s just talking out his ass. I know there was some elite mentor thing that might have been similar in idea to this, but no one even knows who those guys were.

 

[Raptorex]

George wrote:

9. Move the decimal point two place to the left for members with more than 1,000 Karma. This should really not make anyone upset since everyone's Karma is impacted equally.


LMAO, someone hasn't passed 5th grade math...

999 = 999 karma (so 999, is the same as someone with 100,000)
100,000=1,000
1,000,000=10,000

Stupid idea, fire the person who suggested this one.

 

[slat1]

Right, the idea is to inhibit pointless hitting instead of rewarding quality posts.

Who defines a quality post. On the Anabolic Board it is once thing. On C&C it is another. So on and so on.

Everyone starts at zero K. In other words all things are created equal.

It seems to me that people have an interest in increasing their karma. That is how the ponzi scheme came about. I didn't partake in it at all. What I did see was a group of people who were spending a lot of time on this site trying to get karma rich. The people with the most karma are the people who spend the most time on the site. If someone wants more karma they could just spend more time on the site getting to know more people. It almost seems like there are going to be penalty's attached to it now.

I guess I don't see it as pointless hitting. I see it as people telling their friends that they support them.

If you really want to regulate karma you should have a joint task force of admin who approve the karma donations. In other words the member would have to eplain why they wanted to give someone Karma each and every time. Then the admin would look over the validity of the case presented and hand down a decision.

Sounds a little rediculous doesn't it?

 

[Mr. dB]

I have a non- K suggestion (while I have your attention).

Is it possible to create a calendar like thread (especially in the Women's Forum), so people can add their show (figure, bb, powerlifting) events with details just in case people would like to attend. Threads about meet-ups can be there as well.

Just a thought.

I can think of another use for a calendar feature in the Women's Forum...

 

[eat big]

I can think of another use for a calendar feature in the Women's Forum...

Bloody hell!

 

[eat big]

Raise the prices of bombs and plat memberships etc. (EDIT: through the karma store that is.) I like that more than adjusting the karma point system.

 

[Mr. dB]

Bloody hell!

It would be fair warning for the rest of us.

 

[Outtlaw]

Who defines a quality post. On the Anabolic Board it is once thing. On C&C it is another. So on and so on.

Everyone starts at zero K. In other words all things are created equal.

It seems to me that people have an interest in increasing their karma. That is how the ponzi scheme came about. I didn't partake in it at all. What I did see was a group of people who were spending a lot of time on this site trying to get karma rich. The people with the most karma are the people who spend the most time on the site. If someone wants more karma they could just spend more time on the site getting to know more people. It almost seems like there are going to be penalty's attached to it now.

I guess I don't see it as pointless hitting. I see it as people telling their friends that they support them.

If you really want to regulate karma you should have a joint task force of admin who approve the karma donations. In other words the member would have to eplain why they wanted to give someone Karma each and every time. Then the admin would look over the validity of the case presented and hand down a decision.

Sounds a little rediculous doesn't it?

You and I seem to be on the same page here. I think as long as people can buy and bet karma, there will always be people who have a ton of it. The only thing you can do is either put a cap on it so once you reach a certain point you cant get any more (but that takes out the betting and buying), or make it where only mods and admin can give it out (but then you have people getting overlooked for making good post).

 

[slat1]

People that threaten to drop their membership because they loose some green dots is... (What do you C&C Folks say?.....) GEIGH

I believe it to be just as "geigh" as trying to regulate those same green dots.

I for one come back to this site on a daily basis to "hit" people and encourage them.
What you may not realize is I see them ALL on nonpaying sites. What is the difference between the other sites and this one. For one this is the only pay site that I visit. Another is the karma feature. Its fun to gamble and sent notes to friends.
The fun is being taken out of it so why would I pay for it? As a business owner I have to justify my expenses. Its being responsible.

 

[slat1]

I can think of another use for a calendar feature in the Women's Forum...

In the future you will not be getting green for me on posts like this. While I find them hilarious they are not "quality" posts

 

[slat1]

The irony here is I mentioned how this whole concept would make me rethink my platinum feature and I just updated my account today to reup.

Stupid Murphy's Law...

 

[Wrongun]

I think its all drama and should be scrapped

Wrongun!

 

[blut wump]

Harping back onto #6, imagine two guys, A and B, with equal Karma. A helps B and B gives Karma to A. A little later B helps A and A gives Karma to B.

After these exchanges they each have less Karma than when they started. #6 discourages hitting.

 

[eat big]

Harping back onto #6, imagine two guys, A and B, with equal Karma. A helps B and B gives Karma to A. A little later B helps A and A gives Karma to B.

After these exchanges they each have less Karma than when they started. #6 discourages hitting.

What if A is an asshole and doesn't want to dig into his stash to give away karma to helpful posts?


I'd be B in that situation.

 

[silverfish]

George, you say there is too much karma in the system. Then you offer people more k for their money if they buy it, WTF.

Let us cash in karma at the current going rate, direct deposit to our bank accounts. Problem solved.

 

[George Spellwin]

In the future you will not be getting green for me on posts like this. While I find them hilarious they are not "quality" posts

I'm just trying to understand why not? You could give him anywhere from 63 to 700 and in addition to what you get from other members, the Bookie Forum, Casino, Poker etc. you get 5,000 more every month when you renew your Platinum Membership. There should be plenty to play with.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

3 words: Karma Lock Box.

 

[gotmilk]

At any rate - the C&C crowd has taken advantage of the Karma system and made it into something it was not designed to be.

All my karma whoring has been turned into bookie bets...and hopefully karma casino in the future. Not everyone abuses the whoring. The funny thing is why have so much karma and do nothing with it?

I'd suggest George reduce the number of times a person can hit daily. Maybe create a reverse karma split...like one for four. Readjust the karma power by four too.

Part of the current problem is because people had multiple accounts and then transferred karma to their main account. Hence...why the huge gap.

 

[swole]

George, please don't implement the bookie house juice suggestion. The bookie forum does not create karma, it only distributes it amongst members. This might be a discussion for another day, but I PM'd BRR a short list of suggestions for that forum. We karma bookies and frequent customers take great pride in that little niche forum. When you decide to upgrade that forum, get a hold of me.

The ONLY thing that affects karma being introduced into the system is karmic power. The ONLY way to slow down the rate at which karma is being introduced is to rework the KP formula so it does not rise as fast. Let us keep our karma, we earned it using the guidelines set forth by EF admins. I do like the changes in karma price.

 

[redguru]

If you are creating a bookie tax, don't tax the bets, tax only winnings. The other bookies and I are risking our karma "capital" by hosting the events, adding a tax only further penalizes those of us who frequent that forum and keep it alive.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Raise the prices of bombs and plat memberships etc. (EDIT: through the karma store that is.) I like that more than adjusting the karma point system.

First, don't change anything about the bookie forum. Thanks mainly to swole, 4everhung, and redguru, that place runs as smoothly as any forum on EF and, as swole mentioned, doesn't contribute to inflation.

I like eat big's idea quoted above. Increasing the price of bombs, etc. would decrease the advantage that high-K people have over the rest if it cost a larger portion of their karma to, say, black out someone's posts. That, ostensibly, is what you're trying to correct with the system.

#6 is completely absurd. Karma/reputation/whatever systems on forums are a reflection of the value creation that occurs when people exchange information, converse, etc.

If one of the things people enjoy about the forum is finding ways to collect karma, I say let them do it as long as they don't negatively impact others in doing so. Karma power seems to be the main culprit in inflation; decreasing the number of hits per day and/or the rate at which K power increases are simple and should be sufficient.

 

[hamstershaver]

now i see you are advertising that cotb get 40 hits per day with a spread # of 5 and they can hit at 200% so they could hit someone 8x a day
and yet you are complaining about karmic inflation
im starting to think you are just joking about this thread after i read the hitting capabilities of the cotb

 

[eat big]

now i see you are advertising that cotb get 40 hits per day with a spread # of 5 and they can hit at 200% so they could hit someone 8x a day
and yet you are complaining about karmic inflation
im starting to think you are just joking about this thread after i read the hitting capabilities of the cotb

Check my user title.
K.R.E.A.M. = Karma Rules Everything Around Me

 

[George Spellwin]

George, please don't implement the bookie house juice suggestion. The bookie forum does not create karma, it only distributes it amongst members. This might be a discussion for another day, but I PM'd BRR a short list of suggestions for that forum. We karma bookies and frequent customers take great pride in that little niche forum. When you decide to upgrade that forum, get a hold of me.

The ONLY thing that affects karma being introduced into the system is karmic power. The ONLY way to slow down the rate at which karma is being introduced is to rework the KP formula so it does not rise as fast. Let us keep our karma, we earned it using the guidelines set forth by EF admins. I do like the changes in karma price.

How does juice work in a "real sports book"? I tend to agree that Karma Bookie does not need fixing. The only real issue I see is that the pool of Karma grows when you hit someone - that's the real problem.

 

[George Spellwin]

If you are creating a bookie tax, don't tax the bets, tax only winnings. The other bookies and I are risking our karma "capital" by hosting the events, adding a tax only further penalizes those of us who frequent that forum and keep it alive.

I agree.

 

[George Spellwin]

now i see you are advertising that cotb get 40 hits per day with a spread # of 5 and they can hit at 200% so they could hit someone 8x a day
and yet you are complaining about karmic inflation
im starting to think you are just joking about this thread after i read the hitting capabilities of the cotb

I'm not telling you how things are going to be. I am asking for suggestions and comments. I want Plats and Chairman Members to have more features, but I am concerned with the inflation aspect. And yes, I realize that I created the inflation, but please help me think of ways to fix it.

 

[redguru]

I'm not telling you how things are going to be. I am asking for suggestions and comments. I want Plats and Chairman Members to have more features, but I am concerned with the inflation aspect. And yes, I realize that I created the inflation, but please help me think of ways to fix it.

Changing the karmic power function is your best option, in my opinion

 

[eat big]

How does juice work in a "real sports book"? I tend to agree that Karma Bookie does not need fixing. The only real issue I see is that the pool of Karma grows when you hit someone - that's the real problem.

Agreed, just decrease the amount people can hit for.

 

[George Spellwin]

Changing the karmic power function is your best option, in my opinion

Ok, but that does not solve the inflation issue - just slows the problem down.

 

[Cynical Simian]

The only real issue I see is that the pool of Karma grows when you hit someone - that's the real problem.

Like I mentioned on the previous page, some karma pool growth shouldn't be regarded as a problem because of the value creation aspect of a forum. Decreasing the number of hits seems like the best and easiest way to remedy the problem of excessive inflation.

 

[blut wump]

More features in the store and weekly/daily lotteries and a change in the formula should impact inflation. Couple this with losses on gambling and you might have enough. We did cover all of this in the other grand thread.

 

[redguru]

Ok, but that does not solve the inflation issue - just slows the problem down.

The creation of karma is a big problem, since everyone, by hitting creates new karma to the system. Taxing the hit itself might help. A tithe on all hits by plats, and 20% on non-plats. The tax comes out of the hitters karma account.

This would curb the hitting of good bro posts. Coupling that with changes in the karmic power function would aid in slowing the progression. I brought up the karma/1000 in a previous thread, but would do it across the board. Anyone who winds up with less than 1 would remain at 1

 

[blut wump]

Regarding the Karma Bookie and the accumulation of the betted Karma with the bookie for the duration of the event, maybe the bets could go into limbo until payout. This would be better than taxation.

 

[redguru]

Regarding the Karma Bookie and the accumulation of the betted Karma with the bookie for the duration of the event, maybe the bets could go into limbo until payout. This would be better than taxation.

That's a great idea. Escrow the bets until settled.

 

[Behemoth]

You could devise ways for larger amounts of Karma to be spent.

You could levy Karma taxes...accept in the "Elite World"...the rich could be more heavily taxed.

You could make it mandatory that after you reach so much Karma you must donate some or face losing it.

Anything but change number 6

 

[SoreArms]

create some sort of karma trade in (trade in k for prices, plat or whatever) and then start over with a new slower increase formula.

or keep everyone where they're at and still make a karma trade in program with desireable items that are somewhat low cost to the site. maybe chunks of karma can be used as a real money discount for plat memberships instead of entirely purchased with karma.

 

[redguru]

create some sort of karma trade in (trade in k for prices, plat or whatever) and then start over with a new slower increase formula.

or keep everyone where they're at and still make a karma trade in program with desireable items that are somewhat low cost to the site. maybe chunks of karma can be used as a real money discount for plat memberships instead of entirely purchased with karma.

Similar to the raffle program I suggested. Set up prizes that cost so much karma per raffle ticket. IPOD nanos, E-Books, Let the sponsors kick in some prizes from thier stores.

 

[Mr. dB]

I think you're suffering from cognitive dissonance. You have contradictory ideas about what karma is for and where it should go. You seem concerned that it's lost its primary use, to show approval for good posts, yet you want to make it a fun game with bookies and casinos and score sheets in our user panels. I think you want to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Mr. dB]

In the future you will not be getting green for me on posts like this. While I find them hilarious they are not "quality" posts

Low Quality is a kind of quality...

 

[gjohnson5]

now i see you are advertising that cotb get 40 hits per day with a spread # of 5 and they can hit at 200% so they could hit someone 8x a day
and yet you are complaining about karmic inflation
im starting to think you are just joking about this thread after i read the hitting capabilities of the cotb

Hey Hammy.
Of all the members on elite , how many of them are chairman? or better yet , how many of them have paid for it?

Also how many people have spent say $500+ dollars on karma before cotb was implemented? I'm probably the only one who has done both....

I don't think cotb or karma purchasing has creating a problem that didn't exist before these were implemented.

One think I'd like to see is that the big boys and girls on here who know alot about fitness, diet, gear and what not return to those forums and spend thier time there to teach the new folks. If all the real knowledge of elite is sitting in C&C BSing instead of thier forums of expertise sharing thier ideas then maybe K in C&C should be taxed.

I am going to start giving 200% K hits on the diet/weight training and medical boards so that it can be spread evenly.

 

[blut wump]

Ok, but that does not solve the inflation issue - just slows the problem down.

That depends entirely on how you change the function. At one extreme you could make it a flat one point per hit or account for Karma holdings at one point per 100,000K or 1 per million.

So long as you have at least as much K leaving the system through the store and gambling losses as is being created across the whole member base then you have deflation. Exactly how much is being created is not relevant so long as more is leaving the system than being created. It also doesn't matter if a small few choose to hoard their K so long as their hits are catered for.

You could even have the formula be monitored and varying daily or weekly according to Karma drainage. It could even be different for each person depending on how often they hit and for how much. There really is no need for these considerations of taxing hits until aspects of the formula have been examined.

The formula creates inflation, nothing else does besides Karma purchases.

 

[chesty]

bonds

 

[Mr. dB]

If karma hits are to be taxed, or if karma hits are to come out of our karma totals, then to be fair there would have to be some sort of karma income or allowance or trust fund.