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Madcow's Advanced--Wednesday
- Thread starter powerhawk
- Start date
djeclipse
New member
How long have you been training for? Have you tried the intermediate version?
For the advanced version the deadlift for the first 4 weeks is a small % of your 5 rep max, you shouldn't have any problems doing the weights for 5 sets of 5.
If you haven't run the intermediate yet I would suggest doing so as you'll add more weight to your lifts faster with the intermediate. The advanced is only if you've stalled a few tiems with the intermediate 5 x 5.
For the advanced version the deadlift for the first 4 weeks is a small % of your 5 rep max, you shouldn't have any problems doing the weights for 5 sets of 5.
If you haven't run the intermediate yet I would suggest doing so as you'll add more weight to your lifts faster with the intermediate. The advanced is only if you've stalled a few tiems with the intermediate 5 x 5.
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I've been training for a decent amount of time, 8 months seriously (I trained for a year before that but didn't eat right so I stayed at 150).
I'm not so sure 1 work set will give me gains. I've done a bit of a modded advanced for a week and have loved it so far. Next week I'm going to the strict formula version, I just wanted to tie in some loose ends first.
B: 185x5
S: 255x5x5
D: 315x5
Weight: 168
I'm not so sure 1 work set will give me gains. I've done a bit of a modded advanced for a week and have loved it so far. Next week I'm going to the strict formula version, I just wanted to tie in some loose ends first.
B: 185x5
S: 255x5x5
D: 315x5
Weight: 168
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djeclipse
New member
powerhawk said:
Don't be so ignorant/ arrogant. You are not ready for the advanced, for someone new to lifting like yourself, you're wasting your time with the advanced program.
You haven't even tried the intermediate program, and based on your comments I know you haven't taken more then 30 seconds to actually read the site. If you had you'd realize exactly why the intermediate program and advanced programs are layed out the way they are and when to use them.
And on top of that you've already butchered the advanced program.
You're a lost cause, you're the type of person that will butcher the program, add in stupid shit like extra sets of curls and isolation crap, and then when it doesn't work go and tell everyone the 5 x 5 doesn't work. You have no clue if it doesn't work because you haven't tried the actual program, you're doing all kinds of other crap because you think you know better then bill star & madcow.
1. Go read the site then come back and ask questions, don't expect us to spoon feed you, if you can't take the time to read for yourself.
2. DON'T FUCK WITH THE PROGRAM. If you had of read the site you would know this because Madcow makes this point very clear.
3. Loose the ego, don't think you know better because you don't. If you can do that you will get a lot out of the program, if not then you'll learn nothing and be on to the next "program", you'll butcher that as well and then tell everyone that didn't work either....
djeclipse
New member
ceo said:
Of course he hasn't, he hasn't taken the time to actually read the site and find out for himself why the program works, how to deload... he's bad ass, he's super special, above everyone else.
He's too cool to be doing something with the word Intermediate in the title, Advanced sounds much cooler, way more hard core. It's more for special advanced hard core lifters like himself YO!
I read the entire site. He doesn't say one is better than the other, he just says do the one that you will make the most gains with and I thought that would be advanced, since it's higher volume.djeclipse said:
Do I really come off as having an ego? What did I say too offend you?... To be honest, I don't think I'm very strong or "advanced" at all.
I haven't even started the real 5x5 that I plan on doing. Right now I'm just tieing up some loose ends before I start... trying to get the form perfected etc.
djeclipse
New member
powerhawk said:
Setting PR's every 4 weeks or longer, taking a long time just to set one PR vs setting Pr's every week... some how you seem setting Pr's every 4 weeks or longer will give you more gains? How is that possible?
I don't see how you could have read the site, if you did you wouldn't be asking these questions.
It says on his site that adding weight to the bar every week, even if it's small increments like 2.5lbs or less is progress, and adds up in the long run. That si why he suggests starting with mark rippetoe's 3 x 5 beginner program as you're adding weight to the bar every time you lift.
There is an entire write up about the programs, when to use them, why you want to stay on the beginner, then intermediate programs for as long as you can.
I do not believe you've read the site and especially that part of the site.
You are arogant in the sense that you think you know best, you think you know better then Madcow, you think you can alter the program even after he clearly says "don't fuck with the program". You think you're too good for the intermediate program even though you've never even tried it?
As for volume? The first 4 weeks are easy, run the program for 12 weeks or longer, where your starting PR is now just a warm up on the way to a new PR, then tell me there's not enough volume.
Go read the part about over reaching on the site.
djeclipse
New member
powerhawk said:
Pull up's are part of the program on wed, they are supposed to be weighted, but if you have some kind of endurance test to get ready for that is fine. Do them after you do everything else though.
Excessory work is ok, but only as long as it doesn't hinder/ tire you out for your big lifts. He even adds in 2-3 sets of curls and tri extensions for the people that feel they must do them. The excessory stuff may be ok for the first few weeks, but you may find that as the weeks go on the program is not as easy as you thought. As things progress you may feel the excessory work is getting in the way of the big lifts going up.
Also, be modest with your starting weight's, the more of a run you have building up to week 4 the better you'll progress making new PR's in the following weeks.
What is the requirements of the fitness test?
http://www.usna.edu/admissions/cfainstructions.htmdjeclipse said:
Should I start at from the bottom if even though I squatted 255x5x5 already on Monday, and have been squatting 3x a week for the last two weeks, or can I skip a week or two?
Thanks
djeclipse
New member
18 pull up's at your BW should be no probs.powerhawk said:
I don't understand what you're asking about the squats? Are you talking about starting weight's? How much weight to add each week? or are you asking if you need a deload? I don't understand.
Squatting 3x/ week is a main part of the program. Keep in mind though that the squat on wed is very light and only 4 sets.
sounds like you guys are getting things understood and worked out.
Powerhawk, djeclipse understands these 5x5 programs very well. He can help you out for sure, but he (nor anyone else) wants to be a replacement for you actually researching, reading and understanding for yourself. Do your own reading and read again, then ask any questions for clarification of the programs. You will learn and retain the info much better this way.
Oh, and there is a reason why the 5x5 programs are laid out the way they are. It's not like they were just thrown together without much thought and trial and error. There is a reason why madcow says on his site not to start changing the programs. And, believe me...it may not seem like you're doing much at first, but when the weights start going higher and higher, you'll be glad you aren't adding in other exercises or more sets, etc.!
Powerhawk, djeclipse understands these 5x5 programs very well. He can help you out for sure, but he (nor anyone else) wants to be a replacement for you actually researching, reading and understanding for yourself. Do your own reading and read again, then ask any questions for clarification of the programs. You will learn and retain the info much better this way.
Oh, and there is a reason why the 5x5 programs are laid out the way they are. It's not like they were just thrown together without much thought and trial and error. There is a reason why madcow says on his site not to start changing the programs. And, believe me...it may not seem like you're doing much at first, but when the weights start going higher and higher, you'll be glad you aren't adding in other exercises or more sets, etc.!
hey powerhawk, I just gave you a free platinum membership for a week. Use the Platinum search (advanced search) to search the site as much as you can over the next week. I think you'll find that a platinum membership is worth the money (it's cheap to go plat and there are deals running right now).
Do a search on the user name, Sculelos. Check out his threads where he did logs for the 3x5 program and now he's doing the 5x5 program. You can see exactly how you should be doing it. Sculelos has been doing the programs for a year now and has put on about 40+ pounds in the last 12 months!
Do a search on the user name, Sculelos. Check out his threads where he did logs for the 3x5 program and now he's doing the 5x5 program. You can see exactly how you should be doing it. Sculelos has been doing the programs for a year now and has put on about 40+ pounds in the last 12 months!
djeclipse
New member
ceo said:
powerhawk, thank CEO for giving you plat for a week to use the search. It will help a great deal in finding all the info about the 5x5, there is an encyclopedia's worth of info on this site about the 5 x 5.
Sculelos's log is one good log for the beginner 3 x 5. Also a few years ago there were a few really good loggs on this site for the 5x5 intermediate, and even the 5x5 advanced.
I had a few loggs here when I was first starting out, I didn't know much about training and asked a lot of questions, got a lot of great help from members that aren't here any more (some of them anyway). Even got great help with diet in the journal.
And best of all you can do a search for username Madcow (and Madcow2), as he was posting here for a while. Take time and read every post he made, he really explaines things very well, answers a lot of the questions everyone asks.
Also, wasn't Pendlay also posting here for a while?
Tyvm for the membership... I'm going to see what I can dig up with the search.
I meant starting weights... putting in my 5rm would have me squatting 241x5x1 on the first Monday of the program, where I did 255x5x5 this Monday and 250x5x5 last Monday. These weights weren't all that difficult to perform and I was able to recover for Weds/Fri squatting (same goes for rows).
You guys help a lot compared to other forums.
I meant starting weights... putting in my 5rm would have me squatting 241x5x1 on the first Monday of the program, where I did 255x5x5 this Monday and 250x5x5 last Monday. These weights weren't all that difficult to perform and I was able to recover for Weds/Fri squatting (same goes for rows).
You guys help a lot compared to other forums.
djeclipse
New member
powerhawk said:
Well here is the thing. When I first started the program, and even now after my injury starting back again I was able to add more weight to the bar then what the program laid out. I asked madcow about this and he said if I wanted to add more weight then what the program suggested then that is fine.
Just remember that it's not about gains over the next few weeks, or even a few month's, it's about adding weight to the bar each week for as long as possible. I found out that I was able to add a lot of weight each week for a short time, but in the long run it was better to be concervative and add weight to the bar slowly over time. It all adds up pretty fast, 5lbs to your squat or bench over 3 month's is 60lbs. 60lbs to any lift in 3 month's is a lot. If you were doing say 10lb increases each week, you may have been able to do it for 3-4 weeks, and then stall.
If you feel you already have some momentum with your previous training for some lifts aka, your squat. The by all means go ahead and start this week with 255 x 5 as your top PR set, and progress from there. But keep in mind that in the long run it will probably be better to give your body a little rest, start concervatively and work your way back up to 255 x 5 over the next few weeks. When training heavy with all the compound lifts this program has you doing, it is a lot more then it looks on paper. The important thing is that you add weight to the bar on all your lifts for a long period of time after that 4th week. The best way to do this is start concervatively.
Ok... I'll test for my maxes again this Friday and go from there.
Check this out:
http://www.vicjg.com/aspx/madcowint.aspx#
Check this out:
http://www.vicjg.com/aspx/madcowint.aspx#
This one is just a little bit easier to access, everything else is pretty much the same.
Oh, and I was reading an article put up by Madcow for rows: "http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/training-forum/best-meso-best-johnsmith-12.html"
It says on the way up that the middle back arches, what exactly is meant by this?
Oh, and I was reading an article put up by Madcow for rows: "http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/training-forum/best-meso-best-johnsmith-12.html"
It says on the way up that the middle back arches, what exactly is meant by this?
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djeclipse
New member
powerhawk said:
Your hips, legs aren't supposed to move. Start with back parallel to the ground, as you pull up your back arches up, your hips, legs stay the same. (not a whole lot though) as you finish at the top of the movement.
It is an explosive movement, and each rep is done with the weight daed on the floor (like a deadlift).
Ok... I'm a week in now. One thing I'm wondering, why does Madcow stress benching over overhead press? He even allows eliminating overhead press altogether.
This confuses me because both Rippetoe and Pendlay stress that OH press is more functional than bench press and should not be skipped over. (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/4658227-post235.html
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipBenchIntro1.mov)
Would it be fine if I rotated benching and overhead pressing twice a week?
BTW, check out the first 20 seconds of this:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressReviewCLT.mov
rofl
This confuses me because both Rippetoe and Pendlay stress that OH press is more functional than bench press and should not be skipped over. (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/4658227-post235.html
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipBenchIntro1.mov)
Would it be fine if I rotated benching and overhead pressing twice a week?
BTW, check out the first 20 seconds of this:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressReviewCLT.mov
rofl
It's pretty funny how blunt rippetoe is...
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressInstruction3.mov
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressInstruction3.mov
