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LOL @ small government
- Thread starter 75th
- Start date
lol @ attempting to justify this.
Punishing someone for planning to travel outside of the US in order to do something that is perfectly legal in the country of destination makes no sense.
Unless, of course, you're just for expanding the size and reach of the government.
This indeed.
mrplunkey
New member
Let's see...
I can currently go down to Mexico and setup a massive meth lab without breaking any US laws.
But if I pay the mayor in that Mexican town $1,000/week to leave me alone, I've violated an existing US law.
So now we get to my point, my small government ally: Shouldn't we repeal the foreign corrupt practices act as well as slap-down this new proposal?
I can currently go down to Mexico and setup a massive meth lab without breaking any US laws.
But if I pay the mayor in that Mexican town $1,000/week to leave me alone, I've violated an existing US law.
So now we get to my point, my small government ally: Shouldn't we repeal the foreign corrupt practices act as well as slap-down this new proposal?
L
lartinos
Guest
I don't get it. I guess they are going after bigtime drug dealers? Even still it sounds shady.
mrplunkey
New member
They are trying to stop people from orchestrating illegal events overseas and escaping US law because the acts weren't committed on US soil. These kinds of laws have been around since the 1970's (and probably even before).
It's easy to use this law as an example of big government, but as long as we're going to keep drugs illegal here it makes no sense to let US citizens facilitate drug operations outside the US.
So this is a fun Internet debating topic for closet liberals, but not very interesting outside of that context.
Aside from the fact that they are:
1) Not breaking any laws in the US.
and
2) Not breaking any laws in the outside country.
lol
If by "closet liberals" you mean "people that are against arresting folks for breaking absolutely no laws in the United States whatsoever" then you hit the nail right on the head.
mrplunkey
New member
Citizens leaving US soil to bribe foreign officials = Illegal
Citizens leaving US soil to plot terror attacks = Illegal (ask Anwar al-Awlaki about that one)
Citizens leaving US soil to transfer key technologies (i.e. nuclear) = Illegal
Citizens leaving US soil to setup drug factories and engage in narcoterrorism = A-OK!
Makes sense to me.
USA! USA! USA!
Citizens leaving US soil to plot terror attacks = Illegal (ask Anwar al-Awlaki about that one)
Citizens leaving US soil to transfer key technologies (i.e. nuclear) = Illegal
Citizens leaving US soil to setup drug factories and engage in narcoterrorism = A-OK!
Makes sense to me.
USA! USA! USA!
Assuming that the foreign country in question has no laws against establishing a drug factory, and assuming that at no point will narcotics produced in said drug factory cross the border into the US, if you were the attorney assigned to prosecute this case what would your argument be?
PS have you ever closed a deal while engaging in narcoterrorism while on foreign soil?
PICK3
New member
mrplunkey
New member
Assuming that the foreign country in question has no laws against establishing a drug factory, and assuming that at no point will narcotics produced in said drug factory cross the border into the US, if you were the attorney assigned to prosecute this case what would your argument be?
PS have you ever closed a deal while engaging in narcoterrorism while on foreign soil?
1) lol @ no drugs crossing border
2) so I guess the same should hold true for a US nuclear scientist. I'm pretty sure it would be fine with Iran if he wanted to setup shop there. And of course no nuclear materials would ever leave the country.
3) lol @ such a weak troll. Even you can do better than that.
between 2 wars, the all consuming WOT, domestic war on drugs, the US doesnt have the resources (or jurisdiction) to administer our already draconian drug policy on a global scale. Might as well start building our prisons overseas to make the logistics a little more manageable lol
1) If drugs crossed the US border, then the person in question has broken US law. Arrest him/her and charge them accordingly.
You never answered my question. What would your argument be against someone who has broken no laws in two separate countries?
2) The same should hold true for any person who has not broken US law while in the US and not broken the law of any foreign nation while residing in said nation.
Side note: lol @ being scared of Iran.
3) Even you have to admit it's probably one of the dumbest arguments you've ever made.
Second side note: It continues to amaze me how modern day Republicans become less and less familiar with the definition of the term "conservative" as the years go by.
Neglecting to arrest someone who has broken no laws whatsoever is probably the most conservative thing a nation can do.
Big government ftw!
mrplunkey
New member
Ahhhh... Got it. Bust the $800 total income/year mule so the American narcoterrorist can safely setup 1000 yards into Mexico and load him up with a meth shipment.
Of course you have to bust the US person. A law like this makes it possible to do so.
And based on your (2), does that mean you oppose technology transfer restriction laws and the foreign corrupt practices act? Are you also 100% against military actions like our drones anytime a US citizen is involved?
I answered your question. Time to answer mine.
The fact that what you said makes too much sense is the problem.
jackangel
New member
seems absurd and dangerous to a provincial fellow like myself. other laws may be already on the books...maybe they're absurd and dangerous too. *shrug* even if such a law is likely meant to be used to prosecute big time operators who work on both sides of the border, i don't like how else it could be used. i'm afraid for the wedding planning industry in particular.
mrplunkey
New member
If I (a US citizen) know the latest in plastic explosives technology and setup an improvised explosives operation in Yemen, where I'm sure it's legal, what's the problem?
If I bring the bombs over here, that's illegal and I'm arrested, right? What's the problem?
PICK3
New member
Ummmmmh ... Barry will send a drone after your ass?
lololololol
mrplunkey
New member
Ummmmmh ... Barry will send a drone after your ass?
Yup. They'd blow my ass up.
And what if I want to pay-off an official overseas? Why shouldn't I be able to bribe the mayor of Mexico city and do whatever I want?
mrplunkey
New member
Of course they are. But if you as a US citizen play any role in it, you can be found guilty of breaching the foreign corrupt practices act -- even if you did 100% of the transaction on Mexican soil.
well then you just bribe a US official
I don't see a problem with the situation that you've outlined. Maybe I'm missing the point? Unless you invade and establish the rules of another country, then you can't control what goes on over there...only here.
Ah, so you're saying that we should stop drones too and cut down on the overextended American US empire?
mrplunkey
New member
Obviously you can't stop someone who permanently moves outside the US and renounces their citizenship.
But let's get back to my example. If I want to manage my Yemen plastic explosive company from the US, should I be allowed to?
If I do operate it from Yemen, should I be able to use my US passport to freely travel between the US and Yemen?
mrplunkey
New member
In the US, for starters.
Here's a little info for you: if I decided to mix up a high performance plastique or machine a few full automatic weapons using the five axis thingy in my basement, they'd throw me under the prison. That's existing US law.
The slope is getting slippery if I said anything but yes to both. So, yes to both.
mrplunkey
New member
Yup.
So if I want to ship six tons of unstabablized ammonium nitrate to Yemen and a ton on sudafed to my mexican meth lab from Knoxville, what's the problem?????
mrplunkey
New member
Cool! So my US-based ponzi scheme in a foreign country is cool too? I'll get started on Monday.
Sounds like the other cuntrys problem at that point
mrplunkey
New member
What are the chances that Yemen explosives or Mexican meth won't make it back here?
What if my meth lab is 1,000 yards from the US border?
Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Looking for plastic explosives on there. Help me out...is it a Schedule 2 or 3 or what?
And anyone who thinks we should/could is a retard.
What you want to do outside of the country is your business. I only want to protect my backyard and not be the world's policeman.
What you want to do outside of the country is your business. I only want to protect my backyard and not be the world's policeman.
You sound like an actual conservative.
Dont see many of those around these days.
mrplunkey
New member
Oh my gentile Jesus.
Did you just look for plastic explosives regulations under drug control laws???
Congratulations, you've just eclipsed Redsam, StrongMo and any other EF retard on this board.
Psssst: There aren't any regulations on securities under the controlled substances laws either. But I bet you'd get really jacked if you injected some C-4 directly into your o-ring.
And P.S. LOL @ wiki as a primary source. Well done!
Hint: Google "ITAR"
Wikipedia is the worst source for accurate information. Anyone, can get in there and input data. No wonder all your posts are awful. Your posts are maybe at a 10th grade level at best, maybe!
Plunkey is kicking your ass all over the place. You must be a glutton for punishment.
jnevin
New member
Going by your grammar I'd say you're hating on his 10th grade level because you're jealous.
Wiki would be an acceptable source for a quick search of what kind of drugs would be considered a controlled substance. I'd say that info is just outside the realm of common knowledge. To give credit to what you said about Wiki, why don't you prove it? Post 3 Wiki pages before you contribute and then after. I'd say pick topics that you don't know anything about, but I'll just say any page, since you seem that fucking stupid.
redsamurai
Banned
don't RICO statutes already do this? Why more laws? Isn't this exactly the kind of shit you're constantly whining about plunkey?
redsamurai
Banned
most sensible post in this thread
redsamurai
Banned
If you can mill me a fully functioning mk48 in your basement I will completely and utterly reverse my opinion of you and...............................suck your dick.
just putting that on the table.....
mrplunkey
New member
If you can mill me a fully functioning mk48 in your basement I will completely and utterly reverse my opinion of you and...............................suck your dick.
just putting that on the table.....
No thanks. I bet Pick3 would be all over that offer though.
I would definitely need to send-out for the barrel, but my Hurco VM10U could easily machine the rest of those parts if I had an FFL to legally manufacture them.
The machine itself is configured with five simultaneous axis moves, which places it in a significantly restricted export control category. If these machines get moved more than about two inches, they lock out and will refuse to run until a Hurco technician re-enables them.
But I don't see why I'm not allowed to make full automatic weapons or ship my machine to Somalia. It doesn't say I can't on the Wikipedia page regarding the Controlled Substances Act.
mrplunkey
New member
This isn't about controlling the world. It's really simple:
If you are a US citizen and want to do something on foreign soil that is illegal here, get somewhere safe and either literally or effectively renounce your US citizenship.
If you are a US citizen, want to do something on foreign soil that is illegal here, and still want to make or maintain entry into the US, you could be prosecuted.
Apologies, maybe Im the only one who read at least the very first sentence of the article in question discussing a proposed law that would allow the US to arrest individuals for violating the Controlled Substances Act? You know, narcotic activity and stuff.
Christ, it even says in the title of the article: "U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill."
So again, what do plastic explosives have to do with what were talking about?
Methinks one of two things happened:
A) This is another of plunkey's "China Syndromes" (that's what Ill call them from now on) where he started speaking without knowing what he was talking about.
B) Youre making some straw man slippery slope argument - if we allow people to produce drugs where its legal its just like them producing nuclear weapons where its legal!!!! - which is laughable considering it ignores an even more important slippery slope where the US is free to arrest and punish citizens for committing no crime whatsoever.
lol @ the usual not being able to competently argue one point so you decide to turn it into something different.
Wait, so youre saying that what I posted wasnt correct? Interesting.
And lol @ you in general. Im sure plunk sleeps soundly knowing that its only verified retards like you and canadianhitman that ever support his (lack of) argument.
See above post.
Uber lol @ trying to argue when you didnt even bother reading the title of the article.
So it's B?
and lol @ 2 and 3. Irony perfected.
Reading back through this thread I love how at the flip of a switch we went from talking about meth labs (which, I dont know, actually applied to the topic) to plastic explosives without much of a segway.
But yeah, #2 and 3. You have the monopoly on those, unfortunately.
redsamurai
Banned
again, if I want to go to canada and grow hemp and make..oh i don't know, food/fuel/cloth etc, etc, why shouldn't I be allowed to if it's PERFECTLY legal in canada to do so..?? I think meth labs are illegal in mexico too if i'm not mistaken.
Again, plunkey...the inconcistencies in your arguments is so bewildering. What you allow the govt on one day vs what you disallow the very following day makes me think if i was liquored up i could possibly follow it cause normal logic doesn't cut it. While I'm not in complete disagreement that we shouldn't be letting U.S citizens do fuck all we want in other countries, giving the govt. yet another selective enforcement tool is not on my list of things the govt. ought to be doing. As much as I kind of agree that someone running a meth lab somewhere where it's legal and that meth is finding it's way here, is bullshit....you also have to understand that the govt WILL use it to bust people buying some weed in amsterdam....it's just a matter of time. And like I already asked, can someone verify if RICO statutes already cover this?
ps. Stop bullshitting and crack that Hurco mill.
Again, plunkey...the inconcistencies in your arguments is so bewildering. What you allow the govt on one day vs what you disallow the very following day makes me think if i was liquored up i could possibly follow it cause normal logic doesn't cut it. While I'm not in complete disagreement that we shouldn't be letting U.S citizens do fuck all we want in other countries, giving the govt. yet another selective enforcement tool is not on my list of things the govt. ought to be doing. As much as I kind of agree that someone running a meth lab somewhere where it's legal and that meth is finding it's way here, is bullshit....you also have to understand that the govt WILL use it to bust people buying some weed in amsterdam....it's just a matter of time. And like I already asked, can someone verify if RICO statutes already cover this?
ps. Stop bullshitting and crack that Hurco mill.
mrplunkey
New member
Along with hypotheticals over what LE could do, it might help to look into what the law is trying to prevent.
I can't find the case, but apparently two guys in Miami planned an overseas cocaine deal, but couldn't be prosecuted since they didn't do it on American soil. It makes no sense to let Americans work inside the US while they own/operate/invest in overseas cocaine labs.
And there's nothing to crack on the Hurco downstairs. It has no idea what it's making. But if I do decide to make restricted firearms or devices, federal agents will eventually show-up and make me some guy's girlfriend in federal prison.
redsamurai
Banned
It can't be cracked so it doesn't alert the manufacturer when you try to do things on more axis's than it allows?
redsamurai
Banned
good post 75th....if what they were planning to sell in europe was illegal than by all means we should turn them over to european authorities. What's so hard about that? Talk about fucking complications if we're gonna try to disseminate 3rd world countries legal systems in order to prosecute american citizens here. I thought we had to undertake severe tort reform because our legal system is a mess....god talk about mucking up our legal system even further. And yeah, it's exactly exporting our laws overseas. There should be a line though I agree....like if raping children becomes legal somewhere we probably should at the very least revoke someone's citizenship. I can see where that get's "ultra" messy though.
mrplunkey
New member
No, it's already native with simultaneous 5-axis movement. To make it work like a more simple mill, you actually have to dumb it down and clamp the A and C axis.
mrplunkey
New member
That ship sailed a looooooooong time ago.
The days of sekrit swiss banking are gone.
mrplunkey
New member
It's ok to run a cocaine dealership out of the US but not sex tours for 14 year olds?
The age of consent in some countries is very low (i.e. 12-14). If some enterprising American wants to setup sex tours for sweaty 65-year old men to bang 14 year old albanians, why oh why would we ever export our laws overseas?
redsamurai
Banned
yep that's the messy grey area. The cocaine, hey if nots comin in the U.S, that's one where if you're a grown adult and want to do cocaine thats on you. Sex with underage children though, well, yeah.
mrplunkey
New member
And of course a meth and heroin distributorship based in the US would be no different, correct?
You don't think some of those drugs will make their way to the same 14 year olds involved in the sex trade?
redsamurai
Banned
like I said it's messy, but you have to draw a "reasonable" line. If i want to operate a hemp farm in British Columbia which produces hemp protein, among other things...I shouldn't be prosecuted by the federal govt for doing something which is perfectly legal in BC. If I want to sell cocaine and/or Heroin in amsterdam under that countries guidelines...well, that should be my right. When you get into things like having sex with children, well then there you have to draw a line and say if you want to do that then fine, it's legal there but you can't come back here, citizenship revoked. But as offensive as i find the sex trade in Thailand you can't throw people in jail for doing what is legal over there....you just have to bant them.
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Spartacus
Guest
pdaddyIV take care of this thread
appears godzilla shat all over it
and I don't feel like fuckin' wit it
appears godzilla shat all over it
and I don't feel like fuckin' wit it
S
Spartacus
Guest
you don't seem to be too busy at the moment
noticed your posting pace today
noticed your posting pace today
youpissmeoff
Banned
They are not trying to control the whole world - just US citizens.
The law is obviously being put in place because the drug war in Mexico is getting out of hand and the US has to get some teeth in place to try and do something about it.
Lol @ 75th saying Plunky is missing the point and the guy bringing up a Wedding in Amsterdam was not.
mrplunkey
New member
What?
You mean an American holding a wedding in Amsterdam couldn't line-up their drug deals until they actually entered the Netherlands? Do you have any idea how nearly impossible it is to get pot in Amersterdam without planning it weeks in advance from the US???
Sheesh...
I dont think anybody is confused as to why they are doing it.
That doesnt change the fact that its a shitty idea. Someone doing something illegal in the us and in a foreign country? Ok, that kind of makes sense.
Someone carrying out something in a foreign country that has no problem with it and us punishing them here at home = no bueno.
mrplunkey
New member
So let's get this straight:
You are 100% fine with a US citizen directing an organization from inside the US that operates a would-be criminal enterprise outside the US as long as the country in which it operates does not complain (in the legal sense, obviously)?
*raises hand*
If it's drug related*, yes I have no issue whatsoever.
*Circling back to the point of the article.
mrplunkey
New member
So if a US citizen wanted to own and operate a meth lab 100 yards away in Mexican territory, moving money, managing production, taking orders and lining-up mules (from the Mexican side, of course), it should be 100% legal as long as no one in Mexico complains?
is meth legal in mexico?? and is crossing the border with meth in any way legal?
I think its cute (and by cute I mean trite) that people on here argue in circles like this ...I mean, do you walk away from the computer and think to yourself "he really got my point! good discussion"
I think its cute (and by cute I mean trite) that people on here argue in circles like this ...I mean, do you walk away from the computer and think to yourself "he really got my point! good discussion"
Stfu
your posts lack any sort of originality...you've come to bore me
If its legal in Mexico, yes.
As soon as that meth crosses the border into the US (ie as soon as someone actually breaks the law) then feel free to arrest and punish him.
mrplunkey
New member
It's not a matter of how we interpret Mexican law. If it's not our job to enforce our own laws outside the US, then it most certainly wouldn't be our job to interpret Mexican laws.
The only measuring stick would be if the foreign government took action against the US citizen operating on their soil. And sure, crossing the border with meth would be illegal in the US. But if the buyer and seller did the transaction 100 yards into Mexico, the US-based citizen hasn't broken any US laws.
75th, I'm not actually arguing with you in case you didn't catch that...I think laws like this are a slippery slope that open the way for truly crushing a citizen's civil liberties
its not even so much that the spirit of the law itself is negative..but the gate it opens can be
its not even so much that the spirit of the law itself is negative..but the gate it opens can be
redsamurai
Banned
thank you....that's pretty much the point 75th and I have been trying to skull fuck into plunkeys binary coded brain mass. For someone who whine's against every single regulation the govt. puts on "poor little corporate america", the guy is willing to hand over some pretty serious firepower to a govt. he claims to mistrust DAILY!
mrplunkey
New member
1) Back to the homo-deviant hyperbole?
2) I do admit you and 75th make a well-matched pair in discussions like this.
3) Forfeiting my right to run a criminal organization on foreign soil doesn't bother me as much as confiscatory taxes, oppressive regulations, ridiculous torts and generational theft.
S
Spartacus
Guest
S
Spartacus
Guest
what I find interesting is I wont bother with threads
and then notice them continuing for five or so pages
do a quick read through
and it's littered with redsamushit
you're stuck on seventeen
formulate your response I've already figured out how to answer
and then notice them continuing for five or so pages
do a quick read through
and it's littered with redsamushit
you're stuck on seventeen
formulate your response I've already figured out how to answer
