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Libor...WTF?
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Headholio
New member
Give a little more power to the rich and this kind of shit will not even be detectable. They will manipulate everything to suck all the wealth out of America and leave us with nothing. Interest rates, bank account balances, voting machine tallys, etc. You want to believe that all the money in the hands a few people is good because they are "job creators"?
So you want to take their money, is that it, robin hood?
Headholio
New member
I want a distribution of wealth closer to what we had before the 80s trickle down disaster that shifted all the wealth and power to a few people. There are 400 Americans that have more money than half the countrys combined net worth. Its not good for America. And it's not the free market when a few people have so much power they manipulate markets, as was the case in the subject of this thread.
We currently are living under an oligarchy. If we don't do more to favor the growth of middle class incomes, we will sink into a third world model, where we have the royalty and the peasants and nothing in between.
It's not socialism or "Robin Hood" tax money the way it was taxed between the great depression and the Reagan years. The highest tax bracket was always in the 60 to 90 percent range and that worked for America. In fact America grew to be the most successful nation on earth under those tax conditions.
The wealthy take the land and resources belonging to "we the people" to enrich themselves. I have no problem taxing them for the benefits they have received. I'm no cucksucker for the rich, how about you?
-40% of Americans have less than 1% of all the wealth
-Income growth for the top 1% has been exponential in the last 30 years, while it has been nearly flat for the rest of America.
-The top 1% has 40% of all the net worth of the country.
-In the 60's, a corporate CEO made about 30 times the salary of one of his workers. Since 2000, CEO's make 350 to 550 times the salary of an average worker.
-Private Equity and hedge fund managers make 16000 times the salary of an average worker, over 600 Million per year in 2006.
I don't care what party you like, those stats are not representative of the America our founding fathers envisioned. There are 2 simple choices. Let the trends continue or make policy changes to bring us back to a better America.
Watch that George Carlin Video. He nailed it.
Anyone not in that category is too lazy to get there, obviously. Or they are minorities or ferriners.
I'm always surprised that there isn't more murder of the rich and powerful.
The poor have numbers and their hate. With a little bit of organization, they can take it all and level the field.
digimon7068
New member
i live in a small town and i have lots of clients that are in the upper 5% of household incomes...and most of them are desperately looking to hire people right now too but they can't because obama keeps extending unemployment and no one wants to go back to work...the unemployment statistics are significantly skewed.
Maybe your clients should pay more for the wages?
Or are you suggesting that all of the unemployment gets cut and then your clients can pay whatever they want for the wages?
Or should more illegals be bus loaded in for the wages?
I'm not quite sure which one you're referring to...?
digimon7068
New member
the ones that are looking to hire are among the higher wage payers in the county (yes, i meant county)...and the positions they are looking to fill are skilled labor that will pay substantially more than unemployment...the people on unemployment in my neck of the woods simply have no pride...period. don't get me wrong, there are a lot of entry-level positions out there as well that don't pay that great...however, oppotunities for advancement are virtually limitless, due in part to the high turn-over rates at those entry level positions...people that work hard and are eager to learn and take on additional responsibilities are promoted...however, anyone that would rather languish on unemployment, probably doesn't possess any of those characteristics.
not everyone is a hard worker, who is eager to learn and take on additional responsibilities...and, no matter what you do for those people, they will languish in mediocrity for their entire careers/lives, by their own free will...those are the rules of the land of the free.
please don't misunderstand my comments (like some bald, skinny, newbie, fucks around here are prone to do)...there are SIGNIFICANT problems with corporate america and they are 100% motivated by/associated with greed...but, i honestly believe that the day of reckoning is upon us...things are going to get fixed...it won't be perfect...and, to a large degree, a lot of us will learn to be happier with less than we are accustomed to...but, water always finds its level, and it's working real hard to do so right now.
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Damn, in that case, that's pretty bad. People are given a way out and not going for it but are happy to "drain" society's coffers.
I got no issue with people taking unemployment or being mediocre. Everyone is good at something, but not everyone is good at everything. However, I do have an issue if people are willing to live and drain the coffers without trying.
I've "known" you long enough to know where you're posts are coming from. BTW, what do you have against the French? I keed! Haha. You know, I've been working on minimizing my life to reduce my expenses and live on less. I don't understand out the amount of commercialism can be maintained. Regardless of the environmental impact, I can't see how it's fulfilling in the long term (or at least wasn't for me).
digimon7068
New member
it's sad...i was walking to a client's office down the street a couple of weeks ago to drop off/pick up some stuff...the street was under construction...they were milling and resurfacing...milling is messy, lots of pebbles of ground up blacktop...the milling machine picks up most of it, but there's a stream on either side of the machine that needs to swept/shoveled into the path of the big rotary sweeper machine that follows behind the milling machine...the man doing the sweeping/shoveling HAD ONE FUCKING ARM!!!!!!!!! i submit to you that when the largest road construction company in my geographic region is reduced to hiring one-armed shovel operators, IT'S TIME TO SHUT DOWN THE UNEMPLOYMENT, MR. OBAMA!!!
the french? eh...they're just an easy target...i don't really hate them...hell, i don't even know any french people...kinda hard to hate someone you don't know...it's all for shits-n-giggles...that's why we come here, right??? i mean, ain't real life triffling enough??
Perhaps. But the top 10% still pays over 75% of all tax revenue. You can't keep them from being rich. Some fuckers need some prison time maybe. But redistribution is wrong. Period.
Headholio
New member
I thought you were going to use the guy as an example of someone who does want to work, and has the drive to do a difficult job. Or use him as an example of an inspiration of someone who doesn't let his misfortune get him down. Or use him to praise the employer who gave the guy a chance.
Instead you use him as an example of the bottom of the employment barrel. Maybe he did his job just fine. Maybe he's the best shovel guy that ever had that job. Maybe he comes to work on time and doesn't cause all the trouble that they had with the 2 handed bums they hired in the past.
Just something to consider.
digimon7068
New member
he was doing a kick ass job...and it was very inspirational...and they are a very good employer with excellent pay and benefits...but, seriously??? dude??? a ONE-ARMED SHOVELER??? come on???
you're a prospective employer.
you have a job opening for a goon-spoon operator.
3 guys apply for the job.
1 of them is missing an arm.
99.9999999% of the time, which one are you going to pick???
what should have happened is that every unemployed son-of-a-bitch that rode by should have gone home and opened the newspaper and picked a fucking job from the "help wanted" section and gone the fuck back to work. but, in reality, what probably happened is that they rode by on their way to the beer distributor (that is at the end of the street that was being milled), saw the one-armed dude shoveling his ass off and laughed all the way to the beer distributor...because most of them have no pride and no shame...we've created a generation of under-achieving, low-life, fucks...how's that for inspiration??
digimon7068
New member
oh and, the goon-spoon IS the bottom of the barrel...i've operated one quite a few times on real construction sites and it doesn't take long to figure out where you are in the food chain...on hot days, the equipment operators won't even open up the window (and let their a/c out) to bitch at you...they just scream at you through the glass window and you have to try to read their lips and figure out wtf they want you to do hahaha.
digimon7068
New member
oh and, on more than one occassion, the operator screaming at me was my old man...fucking prick.
digimon7068
New member
he died back in february...i doubt he's gonna lose much sleep over it.
He had to scream at you...you were an under-achieving, low-life, fuck!!!
If he hadn't screamed at you and whipped your ass into shape just think of where you'd be.
You'd be going down that milled road to the beer distributor, laughing at the one-armed man doing the shoveling!
(it was a one-armed man that killed my wife!)
digimon7068
New member
this is ABSolutely true ^^^^^^^^
my pop's was a prick...right up till the day he died...but, if he left me with nothing else, it was the work ethic of an army mule...he worked like a dog for most of his life and, when times were tough he never said "why me"...he just packed up his shit and worked out of town...sometimes for months at a time...that's the way his generation did things...he was a construction worker that lived in northcentral pa and he was never on unemployment...ever...he probably could have been laid off almost every winter, but the day he died he still had no idea how to sign up for unemployment...and i don't know how to either...don't even know where the office is at.
uamaverick
New member
Funny, I have no idea how to apply for unemployment either, and I was out of a job for 5 months after I graduated high school. I had $30 in my checking account when I finally got hired. I have TOO much pride sometimes, it fucks me over. I refuse to rely on anybody else for my sustenance. I never asked my parents for money in college, even when I had to go without meals sometimes.
digimon7068
New member
ditto...and i've never felt like i was fucking myself over...you gotta draw a line somewhere...and, as judgemental as i may portray myself to be, i'm really not irl...i have plenty of flaws of my own...some that i'm aware of and some that i'm probably not very aware of...one of them is spending too damn much time here when i have work literally coming out of my ears.
Headholio
New member
Imagine 2 piles of money. One is a stack of quarters 3 inches tall and the other is a pile of hundred dollar bills a mile high. The tea party philosophy is that it's not fair to pull one more bill off the stack to the one guy who owns those hundred dollar bills, but we need to pull more of those quarters off the small stack, which is the combined stack for 99 people.
The rich have to pay more because they have all the money. Simple. As more of the total wealth goes to the very few, taxes need to go along with that. The only other choice is that America gets poorer so a few people can get richer.
Redistribution has already happened. The money has been taken from the middle class and redistributed to the super rich.
The redistribution word is a dog whistle. Every tax is a redistribution. And I don't see any Republicans against all tax. They just have their priorities screwed up. They are worshiping the guy with the pile of hundreds and ignoring the people sharing the stack of quarters.
Rich people benefit more than the masses from all this country has to offer. They got rich, many times, off the backs of the middle class, the resources of the country, and government programs that helped them succeed (as well as hard work and initiative and all that). They can pay back to society.
The redistribution word is supposed to evoke fear among those who think the black guy is a socialist. Taxes are historically low, and taxes have always been progressive in this country. For most of modern history, the rich have paid much more than they do now. If Obama is a socialist, then Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Bush Sr, were super socialists. All I'm talking about is bringing back a taxation system that has worked in the past.
Indeed. Add Reagan in there as well.
Was watching BBC the other week and one of the commentators put it the best way I've heard: Second to Clinton and a step above Reagan, Obama is shaping up to be one of the best Republican presidents the country has had in the past 50 years.
Exactly. You nailed it. They pay more because they have more. That's how it was set up. You want them to pay a larger % and that isn't fair. And you're correct. If the 99 people didn't earn those dollar bills then they don't get to take it simply on the belief that they don't deserve it as much because everyone hates rich people. All taxes are not wealth redistribution. Taxes are collected equally from all legal citizens to pay for things we all benefit from as a whole country. Wealth redistribution just for the sake of it and taking from someone who warned more and putting it straight into the hands of someone who has Not earned it. That's an incredibly in accurate statement. "free" health care for example: trying to force those who have their own prvt health care they pay for themselves to pay for everyone else's healthcare who can't afford to pay for it or just don't manage their money well enough to pay for it. It's not for the whole country it's robin hood BS. If you aren't smart enough to make a million dollars, you aren't smart enough to make a million dollars... That's life. No one said it was fair.
Headholio
New member
Are you saying that having the rich pay tax is fair, and having them pay more than the poor is fair, but having them pay a larger % than they currently do isn't fair? Well, then we agree on basic principle, and simply disagree on where to set the tax rate.
Why is the current 35% the limit? When Republicans used reconciliation to pass the Bush tax cuts, they set a 10 year limit on it, knowing that depending on the state of the economy and the state of the deficit, the tax cuts may no longer be appropriate.
And they were right, and todays Republicans are a whole different breed who can't see the practicality of that expiration under the current circumstances. 35% is really really low. Raising it to 39% Obama wants to set it back to is still really low, historically speaking.
A whole different problem is the capital gains rate at 15%. the richest people make most of their money in capital gains anyway, and are paying closer to 15% instead of the 35% for ordinary income. That's just wrong.
It depends on how you look at it. We all use the same roads, but some paid more in taxes than others to fund those roads. The same could be said of defense, etc. Sounds like redistribution to me. As for Entitlement programs, they are designed not just to give people free money, but to benefit society as a whole. Republicans tend to only look at the abuse of those programs, and democrats tend to only see the positives of them. The truth lies in between, but overall, I think the richest country on earth without welfare, social security, or unemployment insurance would be immoral, and I think overall it works, despite some abuse.
People with private healthcare already pay for those who don't have it! The AHA (Obamacare)would actually help to fix that, by making people pay for what they will sooner or later need to have.
No one redistributes wealth like private healthcare insurance. And the first cut, right off the top, goes into the yachts and mansions of the executives. In some countries that is illegal and immoral.
But the best thing about social healthcare is that countries that have it have lower costs and better outcomes than we do. So it fits perfectly with what taxes should be used for, like you said: To pay for something that will benefit us all.
digimon7068
New member
actually? i totally agree with you there.
but, i also believe that all of these special credits, especially the refundable ones, are wrong too. your theories on who is really paying taxes in this country are a bit skewed. because, almost no one is. you have kids?? you get a tax credit. are any of them in college?? you get another tax credit. is your household income less than $80,000 a year too?? you get a refundable tax credit...that means you get back more than you paid in. is your household income less than $50,470 too?? you get a refundable earned income credit...that means you get a LOT more back than you paid in.
if our citizens are really as bad off financially as you believe, do you have any idea how many of them are receiving "refunds" that significantly exceed the taxes that they paid in during the year???
Yes I guess we do agree there then. But other countries having better outcomes is just wrong. In fact we already have socialized healthcare here for veterans, and let me tell you they don't even come close to being decent, and that's about 1% of the country (not counting illegals). There's not a snowballs Chance in hell that socialized healthcare is a good idea.
redsamurai
Banned
oh that's such bullshit...sorry Digi i like you but fuck man i am so tired of that. If there's companies hiring it's in manual labor stuff which still requires "skills". Nobody's going to hire people to run CNC or Welders who have never in their life operated such machines. For "decades" this society has been steering people to a certain skillset, and now we're paying for it. The jobs that people can do, they ain't hirin and you know that. This argument so called job creators are putting forth that nobody wants to work cause it's just soooo good to be on unemployment...you fucking kidding? C'mon digi you're smart enough to smell bullshit there. These "job crreeeters" are just trying to strongarm the govt. If they hired now, which they utterly could cause they're swimming in cash....it would prove that they could operate just fine in higher tax environments. It's pure propaganda on their part.
redsamurai
Banned
I actually 35% should be the absolute maximum anyone pays, but they shouldn't be able to hide their money anywhere. I would even go so far as to say lower it to 30% BUT THEY FUCKING PAY IT OR THEY GO TO FEDERAL POUND ME IN THE ASS PENITENTIARY where guess what is mandatory? I'm serious, people who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars hiding their money should be sodomized...dead serious. THe problem is what the govt does with the tax pool as it is. Even if you lowered the tax rate, or implimented a flat tax...which i'm down for....the govt would still be "rolling" in cash. And priority number one with all that cash is providing the socialized programs which are necessary for our society, places where the free market fails miserably. Education as just one example, if privateers ran education in this country they would only open up schools in the area's where people could afford what would amount to current private school fees. Nobody is going into the poor neighborhoods to educate anybody....and suggestions to the contrary are a product of a delusional fugue like stupor you should crack your skull inot the nearest brick wall immediately in order to remediate. It's in societies best interest to give people baseline educations. The sytem sucks currently because our society sucks, if there's a problem we feel the answer is to throw more cash at it. NObody gives a fuck about anything is the issue.
digimon7068
New member
i know half a dozen guys at the gym that are die-setters and press-operators/programmers that have been working 70 hours per week for the last 3 years...because they are the ones that want to work...the honda and toyota testing and approval (long, drawn-out process) was finalized at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 and orders went through the roof at the height of "unemployment"...gkn and others have tried to lure the "unemployed" back to work with bonuses, etc. to no avail...apparently blue collar workers like to sit on their ass and drink beer instead of work...who knew?? and the secondary shops (where the cnc machines are that you referred to) are just as desperate as the primary manufacturer's, if not more (since the secondary shop wages tend to be a bit lower)...it really is a sad state of affairs and i wish i was exaggerating.
redsamurai
Banned
ok so there's a shortage of skill specific laborers, right? I totally agree with you on that, what I find incredulous is the claim that people are willing to sit at home for years on end barely scraping by instead of taking up these "luxurious" offerings. Unemployment benefits are not that high that people can afford not to work. I have no doubt that alot of those guys are basically taking an extended vacation, but we're going on what, 4 years now for most of these people..?? And they're not the ones that were worst hit by the recession. The mid level office jobs got hammered just as hard if not harder. People are showing in droves at job fairs. You can't tell someone that has a white collar degree and been working in an office for 20 plus years....sorry gotta go learn how to operate heavy machinery, so sorry. It just doesn't work.
digimon7068
New member
oh and, this place is ugly with youpissbilloff's people, due to the marcellus shale activity and they can't get fully staffed either, in spite of the fact that they are offering labor jobs that meet or exceed six figures...it really is fucked up...you should come up here sometime and take a ride around.
redsamurai
Banned
i got family in the steel business out in PA, New Castle specifically. They seem to be doing alright, like you said cause of the shale. They got no problems with labor but of course that has always been steel country, fuck the Steelers btw, so there's a labor base in place there already.
digimon7068
New member
honest to God...these sons-a-bitches figured out how to be satisfied with less (they modified their lifestyle) and they aren't gonna go back to work until they're made to go back to work...oh and, there's a big spike in disability claims (SSDI) because some of these folks have seen the writing on the wall and they are taking measures to make sure that they don't have to go back to work...i'm telling you, it's like living in a real-life farside episode.
redsamurai
Banned
I dunno Digi, it still sounds like elitist rhetoric. I just see too many people starving for jobs. 5 years ago it was unheard of to see people around where i live holding up signs saying will work for food.
digimon7068
New member
how about "will move out of town for work"...any of those signs out there?? i'm tellin' ya, man...there are opportunities out there.
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