is on cycle support a waste?

[Jbranken]

sorry to say.. but what lou says does have some foundation. There is a fine line between recommending and pushing products.. and that line is often crossed.

I'm confused... In every pct and cycle set up I've EVER seen on this forum, HCG and and a SERM are always included. Yes, other products are recommended but steering people away from a successful recovery just isn't something I've witnessed here. I don't see how Lou is correct at all.

And no offense Lou, but I see you give advice on this forum all the time yet you've never even cycled, or maybe just started your first cycle, I forget.. That means everything you say is regurgitated babble that you've read on the Internet. You really are in no place to tell guys what works and what doesn't and if you read the advice given here each day, you will see hcg and clomid and/or nolva included. Your statement was offensive to the guys who help here everyday and this needed to be said.

 

[northernknight]

I'm confused... In every pct and cycle set up I've EVER seen on this forum, HCG and and a SERM are always included. Yes, other products are recommended but steering people away from a successful recovery just isn't something I've witnessed here. I don't see how Lou is correct at all.

And no offense Lou, but I see you give advice on this forum all the time yet you've never even cycled, or maybe just started your first cycle, I forget.. That means everything you say is regurgitated babble that you've read on the Internet. You really are in no place to tell guys what works and what doesn't and if you read the advice given here each day, you will see hcg and clomid and/or nolva included. Your statement was offensive to the guys who help here everyday and this needed to be said.

I complely agree with JB on this.

 

[searay]

you should not be giving advice. your knowledge is obviously very limited.

 

[joeblow12345]

I'm confused... In every pct and cycle set up I've EVER seen on this forum, HCG and and a SERM are always included. Yes, other products are recommended but steering people away from a successful recovery just isn't something I've witnessed here. I don't see how Lou is correct at all.

And no offense Lou, but I see you give advice on this forum all the time yet you've never even cycled, or maybe just started your first cycle, I forget.. That means everything you say is regurgitated babble that you've read on the Internet. You really are in no place to tell guys what works and what doesn't and if you read the advice given here each day, you will see hcg and clomid and/or nolva included. Your statement was offensive to the guys who help here everyday and this needed to be said.

This is how the babble lives on. Guys with little to know experience passing info from a third party who also lacks significant experience. I've never once advised some one not to use hcg or serms. I absolutely feel that they have there place in recovery, but so do the natural products that I also recommend. When someone asks for advice I give them the best advise I can from my years of experience training and using peds. I would never intentionally tell someone to avoid something they need, and suggest something they don't.

 

[NegroPops]

Yes.. the products recommended are for SUPPORT, for both cycle and PCT. I use many of these products. A lot of times.. people are given the notion that if they do not use these products.. that their cycle, or pct will be horrible.. which could not be further from the truth. These products are to help, not take the place of. If you think that I am way of base by these statements.. then maybe you need to take a closer look.

 

[stevesmi]

I recommend hcg to be used as a kickstart to pct. using on cycle is a waste, if that is me 'pushing products' then so be it. why is it a waste on cycle? because it mimics LH.. problem with this is your LH is already going to 0 as it is when you run hormones and your T levels shoot through the roof. however I will not tell you that it won't do the job of keeping your nuts plump but i'm just saying waiting till before PCT accomplishes the same thing.. instead hcgenerate and T stack RX will do the same things and also have added benefits to your lipids and neither are drugs. so use those DURING cycle. save the hcg for before pct. and then use your phyto-serms in pct and you will recover like a bandit from your cycle.

see my signature on banners and discounts for phyto-serms and T stack RX. and then NTBM has a nice discount on hcgenerate right now. so with all the discounts its way cheaper to run these over running hcg, plus hcg doesn't do a damn thing for you in pct, its counter productive to run hcg then. you want your LH going up, not down during this time hcg actually DELAYS recovery if run incorrectly. it gives your T levels a nice bounce and then they crater back down while your LH has to rebound from suppressed levels. not a smart idea during the time your bodies HPTA is trying to pick up the pieces and wake up don't you think?

and the blood work doesn't lie. i challenge anyone on here to run real hcg at any time and do before and after bloodwork and then come back and tell me I am wrong.

 

[NegroPops]

HPTA releases GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone)... GnRH tells pituitary to make LH (Luteinizing Hormone).. LH tells testes to produce test. Steroids shut down your HPTA.. so therefore there is no GnRH release, so the pituitary does not make LH.. which means your testes will not produce test and they become atrophied.

HCG mimics LH.. which will tell your testes to start test.. but it does not restore the Hypthalamus. So therefore there is no release of GnRH so the pituitary is not stimulated. So while HCG will tell our bodies to start producing testosterone.. it does nothing to restore the HPTA. In reality it just skips the much needed step. But.. because of HCG, our pituitary does not need to release LH to produce test. The key to restore HPTA with HCG is all about timing. You do not want too much too soon.. or too little too late.

Okay

So now going into PCT.. because of HCG.. our bodies are producing its own test, which is a very good thing. Now we need to restart the beginning stages of our own test production (having the HPTA release GnRH).. so we do not have to rely on the mimicking effects of HCG to produce test. We do this by discontinuing the use of HCG and adding in a SERM like Clomid. Clomid will block estrogen from the HPTA and starts the production of GnRH. Then GnRH will tell the pituitary to make LH.. which then will tell the testes to produce testosterone.. but that cannot happen if the testes are atrophied. So because you used HCG to un-athrophy your testes before PCT.. your entire HPTA can be restored as quickly as possible.

HCGenerate.. or other natty test boosters will help with this process.. but cannot replace it.

 

[wootoom]

I won't run a cycle without HCG, i know a lot of people don't like it but it's my body and it works for me...i will always use it while on...i've seen GREAT results

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ problem is once you stop HCG guess what happens to your T levels? they crash, and they crash hard. you are no longer mimicking LH and your bodies LH has to recover on its own.. and if you stay on hcg for a long period of time you will de-sensitize. otherwise we all would just shoot up hcg forever without worry. this is the dis-advantage to using hcg for a long period of time.

again run blood tests and you will see this. those that fail to run detailed bloodwork have no clue because they only look at the T levels and ignore their LH and FSH.

so hcg is best used as a blast into pct for this reason but should never be used in pct.

 

[wootoom]

^^^ problem is once you stop HCG guess what happens to your T levels? they crash, and they crash hard. you are no longer mimicking LH and your bodies LH has to recover on its own.. and if you stay on hcg for a long period of time you will de-sensitize. otherwise we all would just shoot up hcg forever without worry. this is the dis-advantage to using hcg for a long period of time.

again run blood tests and you will see this. those that fail to run detailed bloodwork have no clue because they only look at the T levels and ignore their LH and FSH.

so hcg is best used as a blast into pct for this reason but should never be used in pct.

i always use about 3-4 weeks before the end of cycle...i've been cycling for 10 years and i have seen almost all my gains kept from every cycle