Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below hitorbehit
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Bros, just wondering, would say 40 mgs of Anavar and 40 mgs of oral Zambon Winnys be a good, safe cycle. Then followd by 100 mgs of Clomid each day for 14 days? What do you fellas think?
Is Anavar and Winny a good combination?
- Thread starter hitorbehit
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hitorbehit
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Each day that is !!!
hitorbehit
New member
what if a person were to take 30 mgs of anavar and 30 mgs of winstrol, would that be better?
NO! Looks like youare willing to sacrifice your health to save a few needle pokes. The moral of the story is orals are generally very hard on the system, especially winny.hitorbehit said:what if a person were to take 30 mgs of anavar and 30 mgs of winstrol, would that be better?
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WARBIRDWS6
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manny78 said:
its oral only=easy....it will give you muscle gain (anavar) and fat loss with vasularity (winny). what is to understand.
sounds ok to me. anavar isn't so bad on the liver. they are making it seem worse than it is bro.hitorbehit
New member
these two were chosen based on the simplicity of taken them orally!! Anavar has muscle gain that will most likely stay with you and the winny is for cutiing and muscle gain. Again, is clomid needed when coming off this cycle????? Thanks
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
hitmeoff said:
prolly not....but makes me veiny as fuck.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
hitorbehit said:
for sure....better safe than sorry.
WARBIRDWS6 said:
its oral only=easy....it will give you muscle gain (anavar) and fat loss with vasularity (winny). what is to understand.
Anavar is a 17aa, not matter still its 1 mg of 17aa..... even Oxandrin/BTG admits it on their website with a disclaimer.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
manny78 said:
lol. come on man....we are all taking massive amounts of steroids and other whacko shit here, and your stressing this dude over 50-75mg of oral 17-aa. and we are talking anavar and winny, not dbol and anadrol. i'm doing 50mg dbol and 25mg anadrol right now...not that that is smart, but guys do 100mg anadrol and 50mg dbol all the time. low dose anavar and low dose winny is fine. no matter what any website say's.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
hitmeoff said:
i used it at the end of a bulker once all by itself for 4 weeks, and had a gut, with veins bulging out my arms still. lol. very funny.
Some people just want to hear what they want to hear.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
and WTF is that bit of knowledge supposed to mean?
Just my personal opinion, but I think the only steroids that you would really have a problem with as far as liver goes is Drol and Halo.
Im doing 100mg ED of winny now. Alot of people go as high as 150mg or MORE on WInny. I dont think 80mg of Winny+Var compares to 100mg of Winny alone, let alone 150mg of Drol.
I think the reason why it looks bad is because its seen as 2 17aa's. Im looking at it in a strictly amount of dose sense. And I dont think 80mg of Var+Winny will compare to 150mg of Drol that some use.
Im doing 100mg ED of winny now. Alot of people go as high as 150mg or MORE on WInny. I dont think 80mg of Winny+Var compares to 100mg of Winny alone, let alone 150mg of Drol.
I think the reason why it looks bad is because its seen as 2 17aa's. Im looking at it in a strictly amount of dose sense. And I dont think 80mg of Var+Winny will compare to 150mg of Drol that some use.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
hitmeoff said:
yeah exactly. explain this to the self-made geniuses around here.
disclaimer: ANYTHING is possible to cause harm to certain individuals. we are talking in general here.
WARBIRDWS6 said:
may I ask you why 25 mg of anadrol with 50 mg of dbols ? WHy not just dbols ? or anadrol ? To be effective anadrol needs to be taken at 50 mg at least but maybe you have an unknown reason....
BTW last time I checked, docs here weren't giving any script for anavar to Hep C patients.
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
manny78 said:
basically because i felt like it....and i don't care what the supposed effective dosage is or what "everyone else" thinks. i want to do things different, not the same old shit.
better yet, i'm a fucking idiot. that sounds like a better explanation.manny78 said:
I didnt mean that Docs gave them Vars FOR Hep C, but to those patients (like burn victims) who also happen to have liver problems, because Var was so mild on the system.
Here is a partial profile of Var from Big Cat over at bb.com:
"An intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids. Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use1.
It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing2,3 often practically applied to the treatment of burns 4,5,6. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study8 reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages. "
Studies he referanced:
1 Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
2 Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102
3 Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7
4 Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64
5 Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age dependent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51
6 Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51
7 Papadimitriou A, Preece MA, Rolland-Cachera MF, Stanhope R., The anabolic steroid oxandrolone increases muscle mass in prepubertal boys with constitutional delay of growth., J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2001 Jun;14(6):725-7
8 Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8
WARBIRDWS6 said:
basically because i felt like it....and i don't care what the supposed effective dosage is or what "everyone else" thinks. i want to do things different, not the same old shit.
Im liking Warbirds attitude on this thread, esepcially since he agrees with me...but your still short
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WARBIRDWS6
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hitmeoff said:
Im liking Warbirds attitude on this thread, esepcially since he agrees with me...but your still short
fill out that frame yet? lol.
I like Warbirds attitude on this thread...especially since he agrees with me.
............................................
See post # 17.
I'd say 90% of the questions on this board aren't questions at all. It's just someone looking for others to agree with an existing opinion.
When people say things like "I think it's not bad" or "in my opinion it's okay" they should at least have an inkling as to WHY they feel that way. More often than not, it's just wishful thinking. All 17AA are liver toxic! END OF STORY. Winstrol has a dramatic effect on lipid profiles! Get your facts straight before offering an opinion with no merit other than it's what you want to believe.
At least Warbird admits he's doing dumb shit and that's his right. But if anyone is seriously taking his advice thinking that it comes from an rational perspective they're going to get burned. Then again, see post #17.
............................................
See post # 17.
I'd say 90% of the questions on this board aren't questions at all. It's just someone looking for others to agree with an existing opinion.
When people say things like "I think it's not bad" or "in my opinion it's okay" they should at least have an inkling as to WHY they feel that way. More often than not, it's just wishful thinking. All 17AA are liver toxic! END OF STORY. Winstrol has a dramatic effect on lipid profiles! Get your facts straight before offering an opinion with no merit other than it's what you want to believe.
At least Warbird admits he's doing dumb shit and that's his right. But if anyone is seriously taking his advice thinking that it comes from an rational perspective they're going to get burned. Then again, see post #17.
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Nutrient-Nut
New member
hitorbehit said:Bros, just wondering, would say 40 mgs of Anavar and 40 mgs of oral Zambon Winnys be a good, safe cycle. Then followd by 100 mgs of Clomid each day for 14 days? What do you fellas think?
hitorbehit, Anavar and Winstrol work very well together and should give you some nice results of lean quality muscle without any unwanted water weight. Anavar will help your strength go up and Winstrol will make your muscles harder. Yes, they are both 17aa's, but Anavar is pretty mild to the liver and Winstrol is less toxic than the worst orals out there (Anadrol, Methyltest, Halotest). Winstrol is comparable to Dianabol in regard to liver toxicity, somewhere in the middle ground. If you limit your cycle to 6 weeks in duration, you'll have nothing to worry about and nothing but positive results with minimal sides. If you're trying to make this cycle a little safer, cut your doses down to 25 mg each for the Var and Winny. This is still an effective dose for this particular stack. Two orals can be taken simultaneously in the same cycle if you watch the dosage and don't run them too long, with the latter being the most important.
PS - Make sure and run Clomid for 2 weeks after this cycle, mainly due to Winstrol's activity in shutting you down.
NN
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Might I suggest
Might I suggest.....Duchaine's USH rich man's stack of Andriol and Oxandrolone.
Andriol was the first juice I used and worked very well aside from the acne and water retention. That was in the days b4 anti-e's etc were in use in UK. I imagine the addition of Arimi or Aromasin and finasteride work make it even better ( and more expensive ) perhaps even a little proviron to keep NM happy.
S.B.C
[email protected]
Might I suggest.....Duchaine's USH rich man's stack of Andriol and Oxandrolone.
Andriol was the first juice I used and worked very well aside from the acne and water retention. That was in the days b4 anti-e's etc were in use in UK. I imagine the addition of Arimi or Aromasin and finasteride work make it even better ( and more expensive ) perhaps even a little proviron to keep NM happy.
S.B.C
[email protected]
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WARBIRDWS6
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
i take shitloads of 17-aa and i'm alright. you would like to argue about any foolishness at any length because that is how you get your attention...so i take what you say with a grain of salt anyway. anavar is not dangerous, so just deal with it. high dose winny CAN be dangerous. so rant and rave all you want. g'day!
Nelson Montana said:
So what are you saying? Did you read why I thought it wouldnt be all that bad to use Var and Winny together? I didnt just stay "Hey yeah i think that be cool" I clearly stated the logic behind it.
I knew about WInny and its affects on blood lipid profiles, but what does thi have to do with stacking winny with var, since people stack winny with just about everything else (or am I missing something here, and is Var worse in general than other AAS on your lipid profile? ) So by saying "Winny has a dramatic effect on lipid profiles!" do you mean to say that its so bad that it shouldnt be stacked with any other AAS, so as not exarcerbate the problem further? Or are you saying one shouldnt use winny at all? I mean, really what was the point of mentioning that? We are discussing liver hepatoxicity not lipid profles. Id think other AAS commonly used with winny would have aworse effect on blood lipids than Var...but am I wrong? Is Var really the Black Death of BBing?
Back to original post. I said the reason why i think his dose isnt all that because I didnt think 80mg of Var+Winny could be any worse than say 100mg of Winny or 100mg of Drol which are commen dosages for those drugs. Ok, Var is 17aa, got it, great (though I knew this already too), now that that point has been beaten to the ground, so are you saying that all 17aa's are created equal? 50mg of Var is just as bad as 50mg of Winny? as bad as 50mg Dbol? as bad as 50mg of Drol? as bad as 50mg of Halo? Again did my facts miss something here? I was under the impression that 17aa's dont have a set level of hepatoxicity, that it varies from drug to drug (although the all do have a certain level of hepatoxicity). Was I wrong about this? 50mg of Var really is as bad for the liver as 50mg of Halo? 100mg of Winny is as bad as 100mg of Drol? as bad as 50mg of Var and 50mg of Winny?
Wait your hang up really is on 40mg of Var + 40mg of Winny. Well thats only 80mg of 17aa's. If all 17aa are created equal as far as hepatoxicity goes, then why is it not a problem for people to take 100mg of Drol and not ok to take 80mg (less than 100mg) of Var + Winny? Oh wait, you mean to say that theres something about actually mixing two 17aa's that has some sort of synegistically bad effect on the liver? By mixing 2 17aa's, regardless of dose used will be alot worse than using a higher dose of any single one?
Now Im not just trying to be a smart ass about this. Im actually being serious. Alot of vets here seem to have this hang up, so maybe I really am missing something, so can you please explain?
Points Understood, they dont need to be mentioned again:
1. Var is 17aa
2. all 17aas are hepatoxic to some degree
3. Winny is bad for blood lipid levels.
Please dont discuss this again, its been beaten into the ground.
Points I need clarification on:
1. Are all 17aas created equal as far as hepatoxicity goes (ie 50mg of Var as bad as 50mg of Winny as bad as 50mg of Dbol as Bad as 50mg of Drol as bad as 50mg of Halo)?
2. If all 17aas are created equal in hepatoxctiy why is 80mg of Winny + Var worse than 100mg of Drol or 100mg of Winny alone? OR
3. In there some kind of effect that happens when mixing two 17aa's that will make them more hepatoxic at equal levels (ie 40mg of Var + 40mg of Winny worse than 100mg of Drol)?
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Nutrient-Nut
New member
hitmeoff said:
Hey man, you're right on the money! I agree with almost everything that you said in your post. Some people here will tell you that mg for mg all orals are the same in regard to liver toxicity, but that is bullshit. A typical dose of Halotestin is 20 mg per day, and you can't say that 20 mg per day of Anavar is just as toxic to the liver as Halo. Some Elite idiots believe that this is true I guess. They couldn't be more wrong though. All 17aa's are equal on a mg per mg basis. Bullshit!!!
NN
Nutrient-Nut said:
Hey man, you're right on the money! I agree with almost everything that you said in your post. Some people here will tell you that mg for mg all orals are the same in regard to liver toxicity, but that is bullshit. A typical dose of Halotestin is 20 mg per day, and you can't say that 20 mg per day of Anavar is just as toxic to the liver as Halo. Some Elite idiots believe that this is true I guess. They couldn't be more wrong though. All 17aa's are equal on a mg per mg basis. Bullshit!!!
NN
Oooh you know, I soooo wish I was wrong about this one! Cause that would mean I could be poppin Halo's like they were Dbols, or Vars.
However, I dont think I'll be taking 50mg of Halo anytime soon
hitmeoff: You misunderstood. I wasn't directing everything toward you. Someone said they didn't think Winny was that bad and someone else said they didn't think var was that bad and my point is, why are they saying that other than that's the way they want it to be?
I will not address statements such as "I take this and that and I'm fine." That's ludicrous. A 19 year old kid can smoke 3 packs of cigerettes a day and be fine for years to come. That doesn't make it smart. Paul Borreson felt great until he dropped dead at age 35.
People also need to understand why a 17AA is liver toxic. It isn't so much that the actual chemical is toxic. It's the fact that it forces the liver to essentially ignore it's functon, therby causing extreme stress. So yes, a mg of 1AA is a mg of 17AA in terms of liver damage.
Drugs like Halotesten have other toxic qualities beyond it's 17AA.
To think 100mgs of an oral is safe is a judgement call. I wouldnt do it, but that's me. Saying "it's okay" or you'll be fine" isn't something I'd be comfortable doing. Then again, if the kid suffers liver failure, what's he going to do? Call you? Or Warbird?
Is 100mgs of Winny as toxic as 100mgs of Anadrol? You bet your life -- except the 100mgs of Winny will build more muscle with virtually no chance of gyno.
Suggesting an anti-e with winny and Var is ignorence. I don't mean that as a slam. It's just that someone who would suggest that simply isn't aware that both Winny and Var don't convert to estrogen to any substantial degree. And anti-e's do not improve results, they hinder them.
I know I come on strong sometimes, but I don't want to offend anyone...really. But eveyone must realize this is not a game. It isn't a "everyone is entitled to their opinion: format. Drug use is a serious, potentially dangerous endevour and advice should tempered with knowledge and responsibility-- two things which I'm afraid are sorely lacking on these boards at times.
I will not address statements such as "I take this and that and I'm fine." That's ludicrous. A 19 year old kid can smoke 3 packs of cigerettes a day and be fine for years to come. That doesn't make it smart. Paul Borreson felt great until he dropped dead at age 35.
People also need to understand why a 17AA is liver toxic. It isn't so much that the actual chemical is toxic. It's the fact that it forces the liver to essentially ignore it's functon, therby causing extreme stress. So yes, a mg of 1AA is a mg of 17AA in terms of liver damage.
Drugs like Halotesten have other toxic qualities beyond it's 17AA.
To think 100mgs of an oral is safe is a judgement call. I wouldnt do it, but that's me. Saying "it's okay" or you'll be fine" isn't something I'd be comfortable doing. Then again, if the kid suffers liver failure, what's he going to do? Call you? Or Warbird?
Is 100mgs of Winny as toxic as 100mgs of Anadrol? You bet your life -- except the 100mgs of Winny will build more muscle with virtually no chance of gyno.
Suggesting an anti-e with winny and Var is ignorence. I don't mean that as a slam. It's just that someone who would suggest that simply isn't aware that both Winny and Var don't convert to estrogen to any substantial degree. And anti-e's do not improve results, they hinder them.
I know I come on strong sometimes, but I don't want to offend anyone...really. But eveyone must realize this is not a game. It isn't a "everyone is entitled to their opinion: format. Drug use is a serious, potentially dangerous endevour and advice should tempered with knowledge and responsibility-- two things which I'm afraid are sorely lacking on these boards at times.
Oh wait, before I go off and smoke a doob, was wondering on one point you made.
Ok Winny doest aromatize, so the use of Anti-E's like Arimdex is killer, since both do a number on blood lipid profiles. But what about doing Nolva or Clomid along with Winny, not for the sake of preventing aromatase but for the sake of improving blood lipid levels? A bit of Tam can go a long way in helping your cholesterol.
Ok Winny doest aromatize, so the use of Anti-E's like Arimdex is killer, since both do a number on blood lipid profiles. But what about doing Nolva or Clomid along with Winny, not for the sake of preventing aromatase but for the sake of improving blood lipid levels? A bit of Tam can go a long way in helping your cholesterol.
jacobswell
New member
bump. to get a reply to the post above.
i was using the search function to get some info on a var and winny cycle and came across this.
im consdering using 25mg of var and 25mg of winny so that would be 50mg of oral. will aslo use ala and milk thistle of course. any thoughts. and is the low doses of both var and winny gonna do anything or will the fact that 50mg of As are being used a day mean that i can use both at the aformentioned level.
i was using the search function to get some info on a var and winny cycle and came across this.
im consdering using 25mg of var and 25mg of winny so that would be 50mg of oral. will aslo use ala and milk thistle of course. any thoughts. and is the low doses of both var and winny gonna do anything or will the fact that 50mg of As are being used a day mean that i can use both at the aformentioned level.
Nelson Montana said:
I disagree.
I have seen blood test results from people using Ox only and they never got high. In fact, they went down.
Reason why sometimes Ox raises liver enzymes:
1. Quality of the Ox.
There is USP 24 and USP 25
BTG and SPA = USP 24
Rest is the cheaper USP 25
If you use the pure Ox, your ALT, AST and GGT will not get elevated.(In normal healthy individuals)
Fonz
