I worked my chest and my back is sore!

[SSAlexSS]

This is messed up big time!

I worked my chest and legs yesterday and my back is sore!!

WHat is even funnier is that after MY BACK day I wasn't as sore in my back!


weird.....

 

[Thaibox]

If it was your lower back, could've happened from squats

If it was upper back, coud've happened from doing flies wrong, or if you did pullovers.

Why do you work your chest and legs the same day?

 

[uNOwho]

i get that when i overtrain my chest and it's sore...i compensate using my back. check your form the next time, you could be doing something wrong.

phil

 

[SSAlexSS]

If it was your lower back, could've happened from squats

If it was upper back, coud've happened from doing flies wrong, or if you did pullovers.

Why do you work your chest and legs the same day?

Good answers. No, I didnt do pullovers... but I did few flies as a warm up.

My lats to be exact are sore.

All I did was incline bench press (3 sets) 1 set of flat b press and decline heavy dumbell bench press.

For squats i DID 1 set of 20 reps... 6-12 reps for 100 p dumbell side laterals oh and cable crucnh (200pounds 25 times)


I work out twice a week and I can't do squats on same day as deadlifts..

I tried doing 20 rep squats before doing dlifts, but I was fainting and doing heavy deads didn;t work....

And 20 rep squats are so tough that I wouldn't be able to do them after heavy deads..... But on chest day, I can do 1 set 20 rep massacre....... so thats why I do chest + legs

 

[NateDogg]

My lats/rhomboids sometimes get sore after a chest workout too. It makes sense to me though. If you use correct form, shoulder blades together, you need to use your back to keep them that way.

NateDogg

 

[BronzedGoddess]

Hum........I'm no expert but your lats could be sore from the deep breathing you have to do when you do 20 rep squats. Towards the end you are really taking in deep breaths just so you don't pass out, maybe your back is sore from your rib cage expanding greater than it usually does. Just a thought.

 

[acer290]

The reason your lats are sore is that you use your lats when you bench. When you push the bar up from its lowest position, your lats are doing a lot of the work. Then your pecs work in the middle and finally your tricpes do a lot of the final ROM.

 

[SSAlexSS]

The reason your lats are sore is that you use your lats when you bench. When you push the bar up from its lowest position, your lats are doing a lot of the work. Then your pecs work in the middle and finally your tricpes do a lot of the final ROM.

Good replies all!


So I was thinking, maybe I should then do chest before my back day.... probably will cure the problem.,...

 

[FitnessFrk]

you guys are funny !

the Latissimus Dorsi is a adductor muscle it pulls it does not push !

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

While doing chest work you also worked your serratus muscles and certain rotator cuff muscles. Since they run under your lats and shoulder blades it just feels like your lats are sore.

 

[cure]

This is the cause of not properly isolating your movements when doing chest exercises. Your probably using a weight that you can't handle and need help from your lats to lift at that weight.

 

[BronzedGoddess]

you guys are funny !

the Latissimus Dorsi is a adductor muscle it pulls it does not push !

Well, I'm not sure if this was directed at me too, but I just said what I did because as a child had asthma pretty bad and whenever I had an attack my back would be sore afterwards. Like I said in my post...just a thought, a theory...........

 

[FitnessFrk]

my comment was for anyone who thinks that the lats do any thing other than help balance during flat bb benching. they help as much as your hamstrings do during the press.

but No it was not directed at you...

 

[BronzedGoddess]

There I go thinkin' again

my comment was for anyone who thinks that the lats do any thing other than help balance during flat bb benching. they help as much as your hamstrings do during the press.

but No it was not directed at you...

My bad! Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

 

[bignate73]

you guys are funny !

the Latissimus Dorsi is a adductor muscle it pulls it does not push !

muscles dont have just one movement/function. Lats main concentric movement is one of humerus abduction, shoulder extension. thats not to say that it doesnt stabilize/ eccentrically decelerate the movement of pressing (shoulder extension/ horizontal adduction, internal rotation). ie...your lats arent exactly relaxed when pressing.

best example is:

downhill running: extreme deceleration by the hamstrings, but most think its "quads" because its running. give it a try and see where you feel it more.

 

[SSAlexSS]

This is the cause of not properly isolating your movements when doing chest exercises. Your probably using a weight that you can't handle and need help from your lats to lift at that weight.

Very good comment!

Actually I am finally lifting as normal.... I mean, gaining strenth EACH week.....

good feeling to pull more and more weight on bench, finally!

 

[twinturbo]

I usually get sore if I'm doing forced reps and have to put everything into the failure reps...

 

[Mesofreaky]

technically lats serve to bring the upper arm back to a position right beside the ribcage from any position. thats why there are pull over machines that involve moving the upper arms down to your side from a position extended out to the side. So you are the funny one. oh yeah push and pull are relative ex. you push when you squat but pull when you deadlift, yet you use all the same muscles.

 

[Abbaddon]

I know most of us take this for granted but needs to be asked.... Did you warm-up/stretch out properly?

 

[FitnessFrk]

bignate73...you are correct

I guess i should have specifed that my comment was based on the exerciese that SSAlexSS posted "All I did was incline bench press (3 sets) 1 set of flat b press and decline heavy dumbell bench press. "

none of "those" movements if performed properly should stimulate the lats enough to make them sore.

 

[bignate73]

ah. gotcha

 

[Imnotdutch]

Any powerlifter will tell you just how much lats can be made to work in the bench press. When benching it is important to have a good base.......that involves keeping your back tight at the very least. That could be making him sore. This practice isnt just good for powerlifters......its important for safety if you use respectable weights. You dont need a wobbly base when you are trying to control 3-400lb or more.

Powerlifters also tend to tuck in their elbows and bring them down so that they push in against or onto the lats. That could be it too.

There are plenty of good answers here and it could be any of them or a combination. Nobody can really knwo without seeing the original poster lift. I know exactly what BronzedGoddess is talking about.....I used to get the same. When you are trying to suck air through a hole the size of a small straw instead if something over an inch in diameter you find out just how many muscles are involved in breathing. BigNate sounds way too intelligent Its gonna take me a half hour to decipher what he said......but it sounds good lol.

bignate73...you are correct

I guess i should have specifed that my comment was based on the exerciese that SSAlexSS posted "All I did was incline bench press (3 sets) 1 set of flat b press and decline heavy dumbell bench press. "

none of "those" movements if performed properly should stimulate the lats enough to make them sore.

 

[Guinness]

SSAlexSS,

Same thing happens to me from time to time...I think all it shows is that you did a very good job of controlling the weight on eccentric portions of your reps....did you slow your cadence down at all on your pressing motions?

I may be way off here, but barbell pressing movements for the chest, at least on the negative portion, are a lot like rowing motions for back...granted, you aren't pulling the weight towards you, but by controlling it down, you are hitting lats pretty hard.

 

[Godly1]

my thoughts

you have failed to mention exactly when you did your back day. many times i have not felt the effects of a good workout until the second day. it is possible for your back to stay tense until you work your chest.(your back muscles must relax to allow full range of motion by your chest muscles). that is when you would begin to feel the soreness.

#2
lats stabilize on pressing exercises. however, they work a little harder if you're you have your back arched during the press, or decline benches(which he said that he did), and dumbell presses (which he also said he did). either of these could be be the reason from what i have heard.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Re: my thoughts

you have failed to mention exactly when you did your back day. many times i have not felt the effects of a good workout until the second day. it is possible for your back to stay tense until you work your chest.(your back muscles must relax to allow full range of motion by your chest muscles). that is when you would begin to feel the soreness.

#2
lats stabilize on pressing exercises. however, they work a little harder if you're you have your back arched during the press, or decline benches(which he said that he did), and dumbell presses (which he also said he did). either of these could be be the reason from what i have heard.

I did my chest day 3 days after my back day... ( a mistake, I guess now)
Monday - back
Thursday - chest

I guess u are correct about lat involvment.

Thanks bro!

 

[nugg]

try doing

300 pushups in one day (not that you would want to)- tell me where you feel the most pain (9 times out of 10) it will be in the lower front lats ( the part that you see from the front).

 

[Mesofreaky]

If you bench with your elbows in you use lats on the very bottom of the movement to PRESS the weight not to stabilize not just a little either the are the primary muscle for the bottom of the movement.

 

[ashe]

hey SSAlexSS

i just browsed your post....but to me it sounds like it is just simply incorrect form. be sure you are not lifting too much weight that you loose the benefit of lifting all together. besides, you can really hurt yourself by lifting weight improperly. just lookin out for ya hope it helps!

 

[bignate73]

If you bench with your elbows in you use lats on the very bottom of the movement to PRESS the weight not to stabilize not just a little either the are the primary muscle for the bottom of the movement.

no. sorry you are wrong.

when the humerus (upper arm) is going forward or flexing....it is not the result of the lats. ESPECIALLY when your arms are at your sides, thats called shoulder FLEXION and is the result of deltoids and pectorals. Lats are strictly there for stabilization.

 

[Imnotdutch]

I think that is why he mentioned the elbows in point. Many big benchers do it this way. The upper arm effectively comes down on top of the lat so that it acts like a spring. By flexing the lat at the bottom of the lift you can use they to get the bar moving. Unfotunately I dont understand all of the details of how the lats become involved, but I'm sure that one of guys on the powerlifting board will know.

no. sorry you are wrong.

when the humerus (upper arm) is going forward or flexing....it is not the result of the lats. ESPECIALLY when your arms are at your sides, thats called shoulder FLEXION and is the result of deltoids and pectorals. Lats are strictly there for stabilization.

 

[bignate73]

I think that is why he mentioned the elbows in point. Many big benchers do it this way. The upper arm effectively comes down on top of the lat so that it acts like a spring. By flexing the lat at the bottom of the lift you can use they to get the bar moving. Unfotunately I dont understand all of the details of how the lats become involved, but I'm sure that one of guys on the powerlifting board will know.

ahhh. yeah that makes sense. those fahkers have some big lats...so i guess the old springboard effect could happen.

hehe.

 

[Mesofreaky]

you are so full of yourself, the lat is used that way. as a matter of fact I've had sore lats from doing deep dips, and thats no "springboard" effect and when I'm at the bottom of my bench I can flex my lats and magically the bar goes up. just cause you're some amateur physiologist who goes around and looks shit up on the internet doesn't make you all knowing. if you don't believe that they can be used on bench onsider this one of their documented and well documented functions is shoulder adduction know what other muscles are used in shoulder adduction try these

Pectoralis major (sternal head)

Pectoralis major (clavicular head)

Teres major

Coracobrachialis

Triceps brachii (long head)

well shit all three of the major muscles used on bench press just happen to do the same thing as lats. seems to me you just don't know all you think you know like the people who don't know why their hamstrings get sore when they squat cause they don't know its a hip flexor or in this case why lats get sore on bench cause they don't know its a shoulder adductor.

 

[bignate73]

hehe. wooow. you really are into gym science.

alright big guy...

here you go.

lats do what? eccentrically decelerate when the humerus is going through a press.

hamstrings do what?
move eccentrically on a pressing motion, ie squats. ( for your squat question)

this means...the muscle is contracting, but doing a negative essentially. isnt that why negatives hurt? thats why you feel it.

think about the motion. muscles all PULL. its just a matter of where they insert and originate. soooo.....lats originate in the thoracolumbar fascia (lower back for you) and insert on the inner portion of the humerus ( inner arm for you).

work with me on this one. think of those 2 points of having a rubber band between them, that rubber band is pulled taught. is there some way that the lats magically reverse the motion they are supposed to pull and actually push?

im not looking anything up online on elitefitness or any other bodybuilding sites. a) this is my job b) its science c) i can quote you references if you want.

dont take it personally. you backed what you said with personal experience and not science.

ps...oops. shoulder adduction is in the frontal plane. ie doing lateral raises straight to the side is abduction and bringing them down is adduction. flexion and extension is in the saggital plane....in front of you. so while you were looking up your actions of each muscle, i think you forgot your planes of movement and joint motions. so with that said...i dont see how your "lats" act concentrically to move your arms in TRANSVERSE adduction. maybe you could clarify......

 

[bignate73]

seems to me you just don't know all you think you know like the people who don't know why their hamstrings get sore when they squat cause they don't know its a hip flexor (or extensor...you decide since you are making up words) or in this case why lats get sore on bench cause they don't know its a shoulder adductor. youre actually right on this about lats being an adductor, but its irrelevent since shoulder adduction is no part of a bench press beyond a static contraction (at best)

i grow weary playing with you...


sincerely,

the "amateur physiologist" NSCA-CPT,NASM-CPT

 

[SSAlexSS]

hey SSAlexSS

i just browsed your post....but to me it sounds like it is just simply incorrect form. be sure you are not lifting too much weight that you loose the benefit of lifting all together. besides, you can really hurt yourself by lifting weight improperly. just lookin out for ya hope it helps!

thanks!

however I do lift more and more weight each week, thats part of the game... Bench used to be something that I couldnt gain on, now that is changing...

 

[Mesofreaky]

LMAO, aight ok everything you said was pure bull even your rubber band explanation supported my view move the arm to the back on you little rubber band model and it will stretch showing that the muscle can be used to push from the bottom of the lift. But I'll tell you what you go on thinking that the hams move eccentrically on squats and thats why they are sore when ever they are really fuctioning as hip flexors to cause the soreness and go on thinking that lats only have one function. it won't hurt me any if you live in ignorance.

 

[bignate73]

LMAO, aight ok everything you said was pure bull even your rubber band explanation supported my view move the arm to the back on you little rubber band model and it will stretch showing that the muscle can be used to push from the bottom of the lift. But I'll tell you what you go on thinking that the hams move eccentrically on squats and thats why they are sore when ever they are really fuctioning as hip flexors to cause the soreness and go on thinking that lats only have one function. it won't hurt me any if you live in ignorance.

you make yourself look stupid. the 5 other trainers i talked to today....laughed at your responses. 2 of which have masters degrees in exercise phys. hmmm....

do you truly understand the words you are saying? eccentric? flexor?

just to actually HELP you:
taken from exrx.net (since you think im so fond of internet research)
-------------------------------
Concentric

The contraction of a muscle resulting in its shortening.

Eccentric

The contraction of a muscle during its lengthening. (in a squat, the knee is extending, ie...the hamstrings are LENGTHENING. In a bench press....the lats are LENGTHENING.


---------------------------------
Hip
Flexion

Bending the joint resulting in a decrease of angle; moving the thigh or top of the pelvis forward.
Iliopsoas
Tensor fasciae latae
Rectus femoris
Sartorius
Adductor longus
Adductor brevis
Pectineus
-----------------------------------
Extension

Straightening the joint resulting in an increase of angle; moving the thigh or top of the pelvis backward.
Gluteus maximus
Semitendiunosus
Semimembranosus
Biceps femoris (long head)
Adductor magnus (ischial fibers)
-----------------------------------

Latissimus Dorsi

Origin

Ilium
Posterior Crest
Sacrum (Posterior)
Vertebral Column (Lateral Surface)
Lumbar Vetebrae (L1-5)
Thoracic Vetebrae (T7-12)
Ribs (Posterior)
Lower 3 or 4 ribs

Insertion

Humerus (Proximal Anterior/Medial)
Intertubercular Groove (Medial Side)

my rubber band analogy is wrong?

LOL!

i cant spell it out any more clearly for you, i think now you are just messing with me but whatever. read a book kiddo or give me some references and ill believe you and go back and tell all of the great "mistake" that the world is making with regards to muscle contraction theories since cross bridges found a way to push instead of pull.

bwaaaahahahahaha!

 

[Belial]

Bignate, don't bother. Not worth your time.

I realized this about a lot of the BS here a long time ago.

 

[bignate73]

i get fired up bro, because i dont like to see garbage perpetuated. ill tone back, maybe i need to take a break.

long day, had to give a presentation on core assessment. fun fun. ah well, thanks for the support bro.

 

[Godly1]

if you're flexing you're lats on a press then you are fighting yourself. there isn't a person on the face of this earth that would ever tell you to do bench presses to increase the size of your lats. and if there was then,,, well,,,, i would have to piss my pants from laughing so hard. Bignate knows what he's talking about.

 

[Mesofreaky]

you don't do it the whole movement dumbass.

 

[bignate73]

mesofreaky,
prove your point intelligently and people will listen. name calling only discredits what you have to say even more, regardless of if you are right or wrong. if youre wrong, bow out gracefully, if you are right....explain it correctly.

 

[Mesofreaky]

shut the hell up, I explained it correctly, if you don't believe me shut the hell up, this is the last thing I post in this shitty thread. I mean fuck man.

 

[Mesofreaky]

no wait you want a real logical easy to understand explanation. a muscle will allways try to pull in the same direction. no matter what the tricep is gonna try to extend the arm, no matter what the lats will try to pull the upper arm to a position beside the ribcage, this means no matter where the upper arm is if the lats flex they will try to bring the arm to this position. so tuck your elbows in real close, I mean touching the body, and on the bottom of your bench when you flex your lats they will try to bring your arm back to that position and when they do you will move the bar through the lower part of the movement.

 

[bignate73]

i see exactly what you are saying. shoulder protraction. but in that position, shoulder protraction is done by anterior delts, and pec major and minor, the lats are involved only slightly, but not to the degree you say, only for internal rotation, not in the actual press. rolling your shoulder forward is the degree of involvement, at which point, your shoulder should be retracted and fixed in place soooo......

thats why the lats arent ever listed as being involved in it. you should have stipulated slight involvement since they are not as important as you indicated. for those that bench with their shoulders retracted, high chest, even less involvement. only time i see someone recruit thier lats to such an extreme is with poor form when they over protract at the top of the movement when they over rotate the shoulder for that "extra" at the top. that movement is actually a means of training the pec minor directly.

as for getting back to the topic of this thread as to why the lats are sore; isometrically contracting hard and even contraction with a controlled release throughout a press is to blame.

 

[Mesofreaky]

with my form rolling the shoulders forward(internal rotation) is the brunt of the bottom of the movement couple that with a "slight" shoulder protraction and lats come into play big time for me. Now with a conventional form theres no way lats are gonna come into play all that much but with my form lats are only second to pecs on the bottom of the movement.

 

[Mesofreaky]

let me clarify how rolling my shoulders is the brunt of the bottom of the movement, its a technique called "back release" you stated my shoulders would be in a retracted and FIXED position when they are not fixed at all. the idea of back release is to arch the back keeping everything nice and tight and then all at once releasing that by taking the arch out of the back and rolling the shoulders forward. you can then regain your arch for more power if you wish, its more than tricky but it works, I guess I kind of neglected to realize that not everyone benches elbows in and that not everyone benching elbows in uses a back release.

 

[Godly1]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT? SSALEXSS HASN'T COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS LATS BEING SORE ANYMORE. MAYBE HE'S ALL BETTER NOW SO THIS THREAD CAN BE DROPPED.

i think we've all proven that we can be online doctors but the truth is, maybe all of us were right about why this dudes lats were sore, or maybe none of us were right.

mesofreaky, damn man, you hurt my feelings. guess i should go running home to mommy

 

[bignate73]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT? SSALEXSS HASN'T COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS LATS BEING SORE ANYMORE. MAYBE HE'S ALL BETTER NOW SO THIS THREAD CAN BE DROPPED.

FUCK! now MY lats hurt.....

 

[Mesofreaky]

Sorry godly, it just seems so simple to me. that I get a little fired up trying to exlpain it.