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I got angrier today than I ever have been in my entire life.

N

nefertiti

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We're talking breaking out into a sweat, hands shaking, short breath, pure anger. And then I had to put a smile on my face and make nice small talk with one of the two sources of this anger.

I also think it's safe to say I am through wth organized religion. Not my faith, just the "church" in general. What a fucking crock of shit. There are some good priests out there...two of them being my parents who represent the little bit that is good about religion in my mind (and judging by all the crying by my mother's parishioners today at her last service before retirement, other people share this view). But organized religion is forever tainted to me. At a time in my mother's life when according to everything they preach about the church should have supported and craddled my mother through her struggle, they instead kicked her in the face in the cruelest way while she was down. The only thing stoping me from walking into the Bishop's office, throwing holy water on him and telling him I'm surprised it doesn't burn him like acid is the fact that my father is still an active clergy in the diocese and I don't want to make things more difficult for him.

Fuck, just typing this out again makes me want to hit something.

I've already been to the gym and blasted my body in an attempt to work out some of this anger but it didn't much help. Any other ideas?

(PS - for the inevitable "I thought priests couldn't marry and have kids" question, I'm episcopal, and we use the same language as catholics, but women can be priests, they can marry, have kids, etc)
 
nefertiti said:
We're talking breaking out into a sweat, hands shaking, short breath, pure anger. And then I had to put a smile on my face and make nice small talk with one of the two sources of this anger.

I also think it's safe to say I am through wth organized religion. Not my faith, just the "church" in general. What a fucking crock of shit. There are some good priests out there...two of them being my parents who represent the little bit that is good about religion in my mind (and judging by all the crying by my mother's parishioners today at her last service before retirement, other people share this view). But organized religion is forever tainted to me. At a time in my mother's life when according to everything they preach about the church should have supported and craddled my mother through her struggle, they instead kicked her in the face in the cruelest way while she was down. The only thing stoping me from walking into the Bishop's office, throwing holy water on him and telling him I'm surprised it doesn't burn him like acid is the fact that my father is still an active clergy in the diocese and I don't want to make things more difficult for him.

Fuck, just typing this out again makes me want to hit something.

I've already been to the gym and blasted my body in an attempt to work out some of this anger but it didn't much help. Any other ideas?

(PS - for the inevitable "I thought priests couldn't marry and have kids" question, I'm episcopal, and we use the same language as catholics, but women can be priests, they can marry, have kids, etc)
Click to expand...
Ohhhhh....I'm sorry. That stinks.
 
Jon...thanks...

Heather...we'll be ok, and more importantly my mom will be ok. Today was tough all around. A LOT of people were absolutely heartbroken that she was going to be retiring and I probably broke out into tears every time each one of them did (especially a teenage guy who absolutely lost it when he was giving her a hug goodbye). I also cried every time someone told me what a wonderful mother I have. It's nice to be reminded how lucky I am. When the archdeacon came over to say hello to me, I said something that would have made my father proud - "I'm going to pray for you." (even though I wanted to punch him in the face)
 
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I'll be back later, I really want to talk to you about this, I am very sorry. I had an experience in my life with the Church and my parents, however it's important to separate this experience from your own faith.

Sorry

nefertiti said:
We're talking breaking out into a sweat, hands shaking, short breath, pure anger. And then I had to put a smile on my face and make nice small talk with one of the two sources of this anger.

I also think it's safe to say I am through wth organized religion. Not my faith, just the "church" in general. What a fucking crock of shit. There are some good priests out there...two of them being my parents who represent the little bit that is good about religion in my mind (and judging by all the crying by my mother's parishioners today at her last service before retirement, other people share this view). But organized religion is forever tainted to me. At a time in my mother's life when according to everything they preach about the church should have supported and craddled my mother through her struggle, they instead kicked her in the face in the cruelest way while she was down. The only thing stoping me from walking into the Bishop's office, throwing holy water on him and telling him I'm surprised it doesn't burn him like acid is the fact that my father is still an active clergy in the diocese and I don't want to make things more difficult for him.

Fuck, just typing this out again makes me want to hit something.

I've already been to the gym and blasted my body in an attempt to work out some of this anger but it didn't much help. Any other ideas?

(PS - for the inevitable "I thought priests couldn't marry and have kids" question, I'm episcopal, and we use the same language as catholics, but women can be priests, they can marry, have kids, etc)
Click to expand...
 
nefertiti said:
At a time in my mother's life when according to everything they preach about the church should have supported and craddled my mother through her struggle, they instead kicked her in the face in the cruelest way while she was down.
Click to expand...

what did they do (if you don't mind elaborating)??
 
digimon7068 said:
what did they do (if you don't mind elaborating)??
Click to expand...

I can give a little more detail.

My mom had a breakdown last summer. She had some really really awful things happen to her just before she met my father that she supressed with years and years of giving herself to others. It's safe to say she is the quintessential mother, and that's how everyone in her church felt about her. Like she was their mother. Anyway, last summer we had to deal with something that brought up all of those repressed memories and my mother ended up in the hospital.

She and her vestry decided the best course of action would be to go on short term disability while she focused on getting herself back together. Several months ago, while my mom was still in an extremely fragile state, the bishop called her in for an appointment and told her that the vestry had gone to him and told him they wanted to move on to another priest, that they didn't want her to come back.

Initially I had been angry with them. How could they do something so cruel, to let her get blindsided by this when they knew all she was going through? I thought they were a bunch of chickenshit assholes. My mom avoided and avoided and put off talking to the vestry, I think because she was so hurt that none of them had come to her first and told her and explained their choice to her.

I asked my dad this morning, before I was supposed to see all these people, if she had ever spoken with them. He told me yes, and that they had never gone to the Bishop. The bishop lied, they still wanted her to come back. And then he had lied to the vestry and told them she wanted to retire. My mom had then made the choice that she didn't have the energy to do the work (it's a huge church and she used to do 80 hour weeks) anymore and that's when she (actually) chose to retire.

That sonofabitch lied to my poor mother and made her feel like shit when she was going through one of the most difficult times of her life, after all she has done for this diocese, and he's supposed to be a leader in the church? Fuck him.
 
nefertiti said:
I can give a little more detail.

My mom had a breakdown last summer. She had some really really awful things happen to her just before she met my father that she supressed with years and years of giving herself to others. It's safe to say she is the quintessential mother, and that's how everyone in her church felt about her. Like she was their mother. Anyway, last summer we had to deal with something that brought up all of those repressed memories and my mother ended up in the hospital.

She and her vestry decided the best course of action would be to go on short term disability while she focused on getting herself back together. Several months ago, while my mom was still in an extremely fragile state, the bishop called her in for an appointment and told her that the vestry had gone to him and told him they wanted to move on to another priest, that they didn't want her to come back.

Initially I had been angry with them. How could they do something so cruel, to let her get blindsided by this when they knew all she was going through? I thought they were a bunch of chickenshit assholes. My mom avoided and avoided and put off talking to the vestry, I think because she was so hurt that none of them had come to her first and told her and explained their choice to her.

I asked my dad this morning, before I was supposed to see all these people, if she had ever spoken with them. He told me yes, and that they had never gone to the Bishop. The bishop lied, they still wanted her to come back. And then he had lied to the vestry and told them she wanted to retire. My mom had then made the choice that she didn't have the energy to do the work (it's a huge church and she used to do 80 hour weeks) anymore and that's when she (actually) chose to retire.

That sonofabitch lied to my poor mother and made her feel like shit when she was going through one of the most difficult times of her life, after all she has done for this diocese, and he's supposed to be a leader in the church? Fuck him.
Click to expand...

dang. . .that sucks. . .unfortunately membership to the asshole club is not exclusive. . .religious leaders are some of the biggest hypocrites on the planet. . .how many times have we seen one of them on tv crying and asking for forgiveness after they got busted in a hotel room with a hooker, a bottle of jack daniels and some coke?? where was all of this "humanity" that they are suddenly admitting to during the ten years that they were doing it and not getting caught. . .puh-leeez!

anyway. . .sorry. . .take care of your mom.
 
Religion became tainted the moment it left the catacombs. Its a shame what has happened to your mom. I know its no consolation but another door will open for her and her life will be richer in the long run.

I was raised Roman Catholic - the whole shebang. Italian from Brooklyn, I was an alter boy, went to parochial school, had a couple people in my close family that were parish priests. Once I was able to think and make decisions for myself I ran as a fast as I could away from the church and organized religion.

Heh.. I moved to Las Vegas.. Sodom and Gomorrah on earth (LOL).
 
digimon7068 said:
anyway. . .sorry. . .take care of your mom.
Click to expand...

Believe me I am. So strange how much of a role reversal we've had but I am extremely protective of her, as you can see by my reaction to this mess.
 
digimon7068 said:
dang. . .that sucks. . .unfortunately membership to the asshole club is not exclusive. . .religious leaders are some of the biggest hypocrites on the planet. . .how many times have we seen one of them on tv crying and asking for forgiveness after they got busted in a hotel room with a hooker, a bottle of jack daniels and some coke?? where was all of this "humanity" that they are suddenly admitting to during the ten years that they were doing it and not getting caught. . .puh-leeez!
Click to expand...


.................................................

Ditto x 99.7 Petrogabazillion.


:rolleyes: Obviously not everyone, but that 'line of work' seems to attract some of the nastiest of nasties.....
 
jh1 said:
:rolleyes: Obviously not everyone, but that 'line of work' seems to attract some of the nastiest of nasties.....
Click to expand...

so very true. some of the worst people I have met were in the church...and the worst of those were usually in leadership (preachers, elders, deacons).

That being said...I think God is great...his followers...not so much.

This can happen in any religion pretty much. I think it tends to be human nature and the thirst for power and the need to exert it over others. But, maybe I'm just being too optimistic and pretty much everyone's an asshole?
 
ceo said:
so very true. some of the worst people I have met were in the church...and the worst of those were usually in leadership (preachers, elders, deacons).

That being said...I think God is great...his followers...not so much.

This can happen in any religion pretty much. I think it tends to be human nature and the thirst for power and the need to exert it over others. But, maybe I'm just being too optimistic and pretty much everyone's an asshole?
Click to expand...

My mom and dad aren't assholes. :)

I think the jury is still out on me, lol
 
One of the reasons I sought out alternative religion was the hypocrisy and outright cruelty I encountered in conventional religion. I compare conventional religion to any paramilitary organization: You've got a chain of command and you are expected to follow certain rules.

The inherent problem with conventional religion is outside accountability; IMO it creates moral/ethical "wiggle room." In other words, you can do something rotten and get outside absolution of your behavior and you have a clear conscience. Wiggle room. The Bishop can treat your mom like shit and ask for forgiveness from an outside source, receive that forgiveness, forget what happened, and go about his life free of guilt.

Additionally, conventional religion provides for no explanation for what happened to your mother; it's an ineffable spiritual "mystery." In my spirituality you can either 1) be comforted by the fact that what has happened to her is either balancing a karma debt or will be balanced karmically in the future and/or 2) it's a lesson, and while not a pretty one or a pleasant one, anything that makes anyone feel THIS powerfully is an important lesson, a trial to be confronted, resolved and moved beyond, and that experience will not only shape who you and she will become someday, but that information can also be used, intellectually, in the future.

Your righteous indignation is perfectly understandable, but I would urge you to try to let the anger go. And then look at the situation from the point of view of the diocese (Wiccan playing devil's advocate here, how’s that for irony?). It's an "old boys network" don't tell me otherwise, and your mom is a woman having a "nervous breakdown." Men, particularly the older generation, have NO compassion for a woman with emotional problems, they don't give a shit WHAT the problem is or what generated it, she’s just the “weaker sex.” And no matter what, the church is a corporation. What they see is an "employee" who cannot fulfill her duties and could potentially be a strain on the resources, and may even impact parishioners, perhaps cause a loss of revenue.

I'm not saying any of this IS the case, all I'm saying is ... organized religion is a corporation :whatever: Its purpose is to make money and to be self sustaining. To deny that is to be naive. This is one of the big reasons why organized religion worships in buildings and pagans worship in the fields. You start building shit, acquiring stuff, the spirit of the thing disintegrates. You have to start worrying about WHAT you’ve gotta do to KEEP your stuff and very often, the things you need to do to take care of your STUFF are at diametric opposition to what you need to do to take care of your spirit.
 
MM...you're definitely right about the old boys thing, and I think that's part of it. My mother was the first woman rector in all of the state of NY, and till today she was the highest ranking and rector of the largest church out of the women in this diocese. Her entire career she has met with types that still didn't think she had any place at the alter and she always handled it with class and grace.

Both my mom and dad have encouraged me to forgive them and yadda yadda...I know it would certainly be easier on me to do this. I'm just not sure how to get rid of how I'm feeling right now. I'm still so mad I'm seeing red. If I were back in DC I'd probably go out and get drunk lol, but I don't know anyone up here anymore so I am stuck at our house pouting and stomping around like an idiot. :p
 
nefertiti said:
We're talking breaking out into a sweat, hands shaking, short breath, pure anger. And then I had to put a smile on my face and make nice small talk with one of the two sources of this anger.

I also think it's safe to say I am through wth organized religion. Not my faith, just the "church" in general. What a fucking crock of shit. There are some good priests out there...two of them being my parents who represent the little bit that is good about religion in my mind (and judging by all the crying by my mother's parishioners today at her last service before retirement, other people share this view). But organized religion is forever tainted to me. At a time in my mother's life when according to everything they preach about the church should have supported and craddled my mother through her struggle, they instead kicked her in the face in the cruelest way while she was down. The only thing stoping me from walking into the Bishop's office, throwing holy water on him and telling him I'm surprised it doesn't burn him like acid is the fact that my father is still an active clergy in the diocese and I don't want to make things more difficult for him.

Fuck, just typing this out again makes me want to hit something.

I've already been to the gym and blasted my body in an attempt to work out some of this anger but it didn't much help. Any other ideas?

(PS - for the inevitable "I thought priests couldn't marry and have kids" question, I'm episcopal, and we use the same language as catholics, but women can be priests, they can marry, have kids, etc)
Click to expand...
what did they do to your mom?

iv flipped out over the stupidest shit...the angirest iv been in my life at certain points have all been from dumb stuff
 
jackangel said:
i blame paul, that fuck.

he should have remained saul.
Click to expand...
Pretty much.....he was the marketing guru for that obscure Jewish sect called Christianity. Marketing Christianity to gentiles was a bigger marketing coup than the ,"Where's the Beef" campaign.
 
Last edited:
SublimeZM said:
what did they do to your mom?

iv flipped out over the stupidest shit...the angirest iv been in my life at certain points have all been from dumb stuff
Click to expand...

See my other post...went into it a bit.

I don't get mad often. It takes a LOT to get me angry.
 
The only time I'm ever very religious anymore is when I think I"m about to die. My rational thought just tells me that it's stupid and no matter how hard I try, I can't change that. Religion is emotional.
 
nefertiti said:
Both my mom and dad have encouraged me to forgive them and yadda yadda...I know it would certainly be easier on me to do this. I'm just not sure how to get rid of how I'm feeling right now. I'm still so mad I'm seeing red.
Click to expand...
You can do one of two things:

1. Do something GUARANTEED to distract you, completely and utterly from it, until you've gotten enough distance to deal with it.

2. Or sit down and write out EVERYTHING you are thinking and feeling about this situation, EVERYTHING, including the things it brings up in terms of associations. Write it like an essay, write it like a letter, write it as a song or poem, whatever, but POUR your emotion into what you are feeling/thinking. Don't STOP writing until you're done. Re-read what you wrote, make sure it's complete. Then light a fire, whether it's a lighter in the bathroom, or a fire in a fireplace or even a match out in the street, and burn up what you just wrote. While you're watching it burn, you think about forgiveness, and that it's okay to let go of your anger.

Talking about anger like this doesn't necessarily fix it. You need to become introspective and address why it hurts you so much and be open to fixing whatever is hurt inside of you, seriously. Is it the old boy's network? Is it your mother being treated dismissively? Is it just a male/female issue? Or something else, you see what I'm saying?

Christians pray on it, and seek the answer from their church; Wiccans meditate and look within. Looking within can be very soothing. Part of the reason you're so angry currently is that you are upset with what would normally be your way of seeking an answer, i.e., your religious institution.
 
MM, you didn't cover the third option, a shooting spree but I really don't see Nefertitties being that type. :)
 
Hmmmm...a group of men pushed out a woman who was dealing with some sort of abuse which was probably perpetrated on her by some man. Color me surprised. Most men are assholes. It has little to do with religion. It's that fucking Y chromosome. :lmao:
 
heatherrae said:
Hmmmm...a group of men pushed out a woman who was dealing with some sort of abuse which was probably perpetrated on her by some man. Color me surprised. Most men are assholes. It has little to do with religion. It's that fucking Y chromosome. :lmao:
Click to expand...
You're growing one in your uterus....STFU....Some of us do have values... The Christian faith is ALL about male dominance, it's in the Bible you stupid bitches....Christianity is still a misogynist's
religion... :)
 
nefertiti said:
The bishop lied, .
Click to expand...


This is all you need to say.

They all do. Every single one of them.

I know because I have fucked two before and you simply would NOT believe the jaded view they have of their followers.
 
javaguru said:
You're growing one in your uterus....STFU....Some of us do have values... The Christian faith is ALL about male dominance, it's in the Bible you stupid bitches....Christianity is still a misogynist's
religion... :)
Click to expand...
Mine will be different because he has such a sweet mommy. lol.

Not all men are terrible, but probably a majority.
 
heatherrae said:
Mine will be different because he has such a sweet mommy. lol.

Not all men are terrible, but probably a majority.
Click to expand...
no offense but your son will grow up to be just as crazy as the rest of the guys in the world.

reason being, he has a psycho over emotional man hating woman as his mother, which will drive him to hate all women. you and your son will probably fight all the time and he will be the asshole who you love to hate.


trust me, i have a mother (and friends with mothers), i know how all moms (no exceptions) are.
 
This exemplifies the hurdle all organized religions stumble on. However celestially inspired you consider your religion to be, it’s earthly works can only be carried out through imperfect humans.
 
nefertiti said:
See my other post...went into it a bit.

I don't get mad often. It takes a LOT to get me angry.
Click to expand...

I am sorry to here. And, you have every right to be mad.

I know you are supposed to turn the other cheek. But, I think he deserves he needs to feel the pain he caused your family.

So, you have my permission to send him this Kitteh pic!

catgod.jpg
 
AAP said:
This is all you need to say.

They all do. Every single one of them.

I know because I have fucked two before and you simply would NOT believe the jaded view they have of their followers.
Click to expand...
AAP, youd be fucking funny to have at a dinner party, I hope im that interesting in 10 years lol
 
i have a friend that i used to always refer to as "religous". he kindly corrected me the other day with this.
"Religion" will let you down.
a "Church" will let you down.
"People" will let you down.
you can't look to any of them to find your peace or a relationship with God. Because sooner or later, they will all let you down. but according to him, God wont.

I don't know if he is right or not ,and I guess that depends on the person really, but I can sure see his logic. i can also tell you that i got jumped on and told off by just about every "religous" person I know for the same thing me and him were discussing. never once did he put me down or try to pass judgement. he just politely referred me in God's direction. I am not trying to push this on anybody. I hate when people do that "look how good I am" crap. I am far from "religous" by any means. but the man has a peace about him that could make anybody curious.

and for the record, i don't have anything for a church or most of the judgmental people in it.
 
nefertiti said:
I can give a little more detail.

My mom had a breakdown last summer. She had some really really awful things happen to her just before she met my father that she supressed with years and years of giving herself to others. It's safe to say she is the quintessential mother, and that's how everyone in her church felt about her. Like she was their mother. Anyway, last summer we had to deal with something that brought up all of those repressed memories and my mother ended up in the hospital.

She and her vestry decided the best course of action would be to go on short term disability while she focused on getting herself back together. Several months ago, while my mom was still in an extremely fragile state, the bishop called her in for an appointment and told her that the vestry had gone to him and told him they wanted to move on to another priest, that they didn't want her to come back.

Initially I had been angry with them. How could they do something so cruel, to let her get blindsided by this when they knew all she was going through? I thought they were a bunch of chickenshit assholes. My mom avoided and avoided and put off talking to the vestry, I think because she was so hurt that none of them had come to her first and told her and explained their choice to her.

I asked my dad this morning, before I was supposed to see all these people, if she had ever spoken with them. He told me yes, and that they had never gone to the Bishop. The bishop lied, they still wanted her to come back. And then he had lied to the vestry and told them she wanted to retire. My mom had then made the choice that she didn't have the energy to do the work (it's a huge church and she used to do 80 hour weeks) anymore and that's when she (actually) chose to retire.

That sonofabitch lied to my poor mother and made her feel like shit when she was going through one of the most difficult times of her life, after all she has done for this diocese, and he's supposed to be a leader in the church? Fuck him.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain...

But as Mightymouse said - it is important to separate this (these people) and your faith.

Religion is flawed as it comes from man.

Faith is divine as it comes from God - whomever that god may be.

I am truly sorry for your entire family.
 
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