i am new to bodybuilding please help

[Citruscide]

From Bryan Haycock:

Myth #2: You can only assimilate 30 grams of protein at one sitting.

Fact: The body has the ability to digest and assimilate much more than 30 grams of protein from a single meal.

Speaking of high intakes of protein, people have been perpetuating the myth that you can only assimilate ~30 grams of protein at a time, making protein meals any greater than a 6 oz. chicken breast a waste. This is anything but true. For example, the digestibility of meat (i.e. beef, poultry, pork and fish) is about 97% efficient. If you eat 25 grams of beef, you will absorb into the blood stream 97% of the protein in that piece of meat. If, on the other hand, you eat a 10 oz steak containing about 60 grams of protein, you will again digest and absorb 97% of the protein. If you could only assimilate 30 grams of protein at a time, why would researchers be using in excess of 40 grams of protein to stimulate muscle growth?1

Critics of high protein intakes may try to point out that increased protein intake only leads to increased protein oxidation. This is true, nevertheless, some researchers speculate that this increase in protein oxidation following high protein intakes may initiate something they call the "anabolic drive".13 The anabolic drive is characterized by hyperaminoacidemia, an increase in both protein synthesis and breakdown with an overall positive nitrogen balance. In animals, there is a correspondent increase in anabolic hormones such as IGF-1 and GH. Though this response is difficult to identify in humans, an increase in lean tissue accretion does occur with exaggerated protein intakes.14,15

The take home message is that, if you are going to maximize muscle growth you have to minimize muscle loss, and maximize protein synthesis. Research clearly shows this is accomplished with heavy training, adequate calories, and very importantly high protein consumption. This means that meals containing more than 30 grams of protein will be the norm. Not to worry, all that protein will certainly be used effectively by the body.

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You think Dorian Yates only had 1 g per pound of muscle? He was eating probably over 8000 calories a day. I guarantee you he was getting huge amounts of protein.

Show me a 250+ lb pro bodybuilder on 4+ grams of gear a week that does less than his bw in protein. I doubt there are any out there, certainly not Yates.

For once, I agree with you, at least on the general premise that you are preaching.

I think the average person can get by on a limited amount of protein... even the weekend warrior who does his 3 workouts a week... but there is no way I'd subscribe to someone who trains like some of the people on this board do and only eat tiny amounts of protein... muslces will grow at first, no matter what you eat (to an extent) but to continue muscle growth, protein is needed... plain and simple.

As for the lack of the body to assimilate protein... I think the researchers may be right... provided that no bodybuilding is done. If you are tearing your muscles apart day in and day out... your body WILL use the protein... you may have to up your water to help get it through your system, however.

As for Dorian Yates... lol -- man, he could probably process 1200g of protein a day... as anabolics help the body process protein better.

C-ditty

 

[Mindwraith]

Ok, I'm a bit more convinced on this one. But I really need to find ways of increasing my protein to 250+, whats the best, easiest route for this? Obviously meat of course but I'm not the best cook yet and I don't have a whole lot of time to cook except in the evenings, I work all day, I get an hour lunch at home there's a small amount of cooking time there, then back to work, then I go to the gym, by the time I'm home long enough to cook there isn't much of the day left. I've been drinking the protein shakes 20g, with a large spoon of oat bran (8g per 1/3 cup) which fills me up pretty good for 2 hrs, but thats because I can do that in less than 4 mins before I rush out the door. I have protein bars in the drawer at work, then I get to come home at lunch. Provided I remember to put the meat out I can cook some chicken or hamburger. Otherwise I've got tuna and lunchmeat. But I still don't think even with all that I can hit 400g, there must be a shake I can make that will give me a good 100g extra so that I'm not stuffing myself to death at the end of the day.

 

[Citruscide]

Ok, I'm a bit more convinced on this one. But I really need to find ways of increasing my protein to 250+, whats the best, easiest route for this? Obviously meat of course but I'm not the best cook yet and I don't have a whole lot of time to cook except in the evenings, I work all day, I get an hour lunch at home there's a small amount of cooking time there, then back to work, then I go to the gym, by the time I'm home long enough to cook there isn't much of the day left. I've been drinking the protein shakes 20g, with a large spoon of oat bran (8g per 1/3 cup) which fills me up pretty good for 2 hrs, but thats because I can do that in less than 4 mins before I rush out the door. I have protein bars in the drawer at work, then I get to come home at lunch. Provided I remember to put the meat out I can cook some chicken or hamburger. Otherwise I've got tuna and lunchmeat. But I still don't think even with all that I can hit 400g, there must be a shake I can make that will give me a good 100g extra so that I'm not stuffing myself to death at the end of the day.

Well, the only way I can get the proper requirement of protein is to scarf down protein shakes with milk... yeah... it takes all kinds I suppose. My shakes usually have around 60g's or so of protein in them... then my meals usually replicate that amount.... so I'm at around 360-400 per day... it's alot of eating and crap... but in the end... i think it is worth it.

I carry around a shake (that all I need to do is add water or milk) in a shaker with me... I have one that seperates the shake mix from the actual liquid... so I can mix whenever I want too...

C-ditty

 

[BOOTSY2002]

OK THEN my workout 3 times weekly some times 4

firstly i cant remember all of the names of the stuff i am doing so:

monday: go to gym

i do 5x everything sometimes more.

legs

leg press 100k
leg extension 80k
leg curl 35k
and other exercise but cant remember its name (but exercises the inside and outside regions of the leg)
squats work up to 40k at the moment as i have just recently started doing them.

arms

shoulder press 50k
bench press 50k
lat pull downs 50k/65k
peck deck 35k/40k
upper body conditioner/pull ups 3x14 reps
free weights dumbells 12.5k
and these arm curl type things 20k

abdominals

crunches 5x 30reps
side crunches 5x 30 on either side
use pull up bar to bring legs up? 3x14 reps

then sauna

this might not be much to you guys but im only 16 and quite new to this i have training for bout 3/4 of a year now

 

[2Shy]

*BUMP* for Bootsy.

This thread sort of got hijacked by the protein discussion. I know you people can help him out with his workouts.

 

[BOOTSY2002]

oh

yeah it was a smiths machine and what i mean by 5x is that i do five sets but i forgot to mention how many reps

normally it is 10 for arms and 14 reps for legs

 

[epimetheus]

The reason many bodybuilders use large amounts of protein is two-fold.

The first reason I eat around 350g of protein at 240lbs is because I don't notice much muscle growth ifI do not eat that much protein. The muscles require the amino acids in proteins to GROW... the more the merrier... and if your water consumption is higher, it has been shown that nitrogen levels in the body are actually more stable on a HIGHER protein diet than on a lower one.

The second reason is that if you are only eating 1.4g of protein per KG of body weight, it is hard to eat the necessiary amount of calories and eat cleanly... almost by default, protein assimilates into fat at a much slower rate than carbohydrates and fats.

The RDA does not take into consideration bodybuilders in their equations and studies. Also, they do not mention that the muscle growth that does occur may be attributed to people who are just starting working out, where an amount of muscle growth will occur just because of the new shock to the body... but any long term growth will be stunted by lack of protein to build.

Another problem with the RDA... is they suggest 10-12% of your diet be protein... but at that rate, you'd have to eat an amazingly high amount of carbohydrates and fats to get your caloric intake high enough above your BMR to grow... with that Macronutrient intake... it is almost impossible to add lean muscle without also adding fat.

C-ditty

No, your right, the RDA doesn't. The ACSM (American college of Sports Medicine) does.

There is a fallacy going on here- The fallacy that if a big bodybuilder eats 400g of protein a day and they are big; that is what is causing the size gain. A big ol fallacy of Complex Cause, and an [/url="http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/aa.htm"]appeal to authority as well.
The problem is, your flawed logic aside, protein synthesis occurs in an ordered and observable way. Children growing use up way more protien than bodybuilders could EVER hope to use and their recommendated protien intake is nowhere near 2 grams per lb of bodyweight.
Get this- If Yates or any other Pro-bodybuilder uses 400g of protein and their is no ill effects that does not mean that they use it all. Yeah, you heard right. Extra protein is convered into glucose by a process called glucenogenesis. In fact if your body is short on glucose and you eat alot of protien it is FIRST converted into glucose before used in protein synthesis. Why? Because your body only needs so much protein, excluding that used for growth in muscles. Once it has that, if your body needs glucose for things like running the brain, it will convert that protein into glucose before it uses it on it's luxary items like building muscle.

You simply do not need that much protien. AT ALL. It won't hurt you, but it is just expensive sugar that that point.

Go ahead and believe your muscle magazines and Mr. Yates et al. I will believe the people that actually understand how the human body works, and study it. Not some juiced up iron pushing monkey boy that couldn't even read a Cell biology book and could get big off of 1/3 of the protein he is taking in.

 

[epimetheus]

Another problem with the RDA... is they suggest 10-12% of your diet be protein... but at that rate, you'd have to eat an amazingly high amount of carbohydrates and fats to get your caloric intake high enough above your BMR to grow... with that Macronutrient intake... it is almost impossible to add lean muscle without also adding fat.

ACSM suggests 15% protein, 30% Fat, and 55% Carbs. RDA is not far off from this. Say a person eats 4000 calories. He is pretty active at the gym and outside of it. that is 600 calories from Protein (150g), 1200 calories from fat (134g) and 2200 calories from carbs (550g). The thing you don't seem to be seeing is that as a percent with an increase in total calories, protein intake increase too, so does fat, not just carbs. How is this going to differ in the creation of fat from your diet? Let me repeat this- EXTRA PROTEIN IS CONVERTED INTO GLUCOSE. You know, the same thing carbs are convereted into.

Shall I go on to how the body process food from the time it is ingested to the time it is excreted? How SCIENCE says it works, not some psuedo-science spouting magazine article on a new nitrate delivery system protein powder that is at a new low price off 19.95 for 5lbs.

Basically people spend too much time quibbling over their diet, eating unnecessary amounts of protein and listening to skewed information on how big of a difference a piece of fruit breaks down in your body and how a piece of bread breaks down.

 

[2Shy]

Awww guys, come on. I bumped this for the original poster so his question (about his workout) would be answered--not to discuss protein. Can someone who knows something more than me (that would be just about anybody on this board) please answer Bootsy's original question?

I know diet affects his gains, but until he tells us what he's eating, we can't specficially help him.

Thank you!

 

[BOOTSY2002]

SORRY

aint been on the internet or a while my computer was f+~ked
basically i do eat realy healthy but probably not enough protein ,
i do eat plenty of carbs but not much fat.

i dont specifically no the amounts but if someone could tell me what a 16 year old 12stone6lb person should be eating i would be grateful.

cheers again!!!

bootsy!!