HRT at 24

[asianlover]

well, i found out a few months ago that i have a pituitary tumor which is causing my test levels to be very low. i think it was like 270 or somthing like that. pretty close to the lowest range, but way to low for a 24 year old. anyway, the doc is probable going to put me on HRT, i have one more blood test to take first. if for some reason he doesn't i've decieded to just do it myself. i was just wondering whats a normal HRT dose? if it's low enough can i do without the anti e's?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Do what your doctor tells you.

 

[asianlover]

well if my levels are still low and he doesn't want to put me on HRT i am doing it myself. im tired of feeling like shit and being tired all the time. its not like i am doing this because i just want to stay on or somthing. i haven't even done a cycle in 1.5 yrs or even lifted a weight in 6 months.

 

[eddymerckx]

^^agree with nelson, you could have any number of types that cause any number of things that would give you a low natty test level.

and if you don't like the doc's opinion--get a second or third one before you self medicate--it could really hurt you bro, be careful.

From www.pituitary.org

A pituitary tumor is an abnormal growth of pituitary cells. Pituitary tumors can either be nonfunctional (that is they do not secrete hormones) or produce specific hormones, such as prolactin (causing infertility, decreased libido, and osteoporosis), growth hormone (causing acromegaly), ACTH (causing Cushing's), TSH (causing hypothyroidism), or be nonfunctional (that is they do not produce hormones). These tumors behave according to their cell of origin and are named for the specific cell type affected. For example, if a tumor originates in a prolactin producing cell, the patient develops a prolactinoma-a prolactin secreting pituitary tumor that is common and usually treatable. High prolactin levels suppress production of the pituitary hormones (luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone) that stimulate production of estrogen or testosterone. Men with these tumors have low testosterone levels and lose their sex drive and eventually their masculine characteristics-hair, muscle, erections, and ability to produce sperm. Women with prolactin producing tumors often do not ovulate, experience low estrogen levels, and cease having menstrual periods. In both cases, patients with low sex hormones develop osteoporosis. It is important to remember that most pituitary tumors are benign and cancer is very rare. They have variable patterns of growth and affect different people in vastly different ways. Some are small and incidental, while others are small but cause hormone excess. Others may be rapidly growing mass lesions.

 

[asianlover]

^^agree with nelson, you could have any number of types that cause any number of things that would give you a low natty test level.

From www.pituitary.org

A pituitary tumor is an abnormal growth of pituitary cells. Pituitary tumors can either be nonfunctional (that is they do not secrete hormones) or produce specific hormones, such as prolactin (causing infertility, decreased libido, and osteoporosis), growth hormone (causing acromegaly), ACTH (causing Cushing's), TSH (causing hypothyroidism), or be nonfunctional (that is they do not produce hormones). These tumors behave according to their cell of origin and are named for the specific cell type affected. For example, if a tumor originates in a prolactin producing cell, the patient develops a prolactinoma-a prolactin secreting pituitary tumor that is common and usually treatable. High prolactin levels suppress production of the pituitary hormones (luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone) that stimulate production of estrogen or testosterone. Men with these tumors have low testosterone levels and lose their sex drive and eventually their masculine characteristics-hair, muscle, erections, and ability to produce sperm. Women with prolactin producing tumors often do not ovulate, experience low estrogen levels, and cease having menstrual periods. In both cases, patients with low sex hormones develop osteoporosis. It is important to remember that most pituitary tumors are benign and cancer is very rare. They have variable patterns of growth and affect different people in vastly different ways. Some are small and incidental, while others are small but cause hormone excess. Others may be rapidly growing mass lesions.

yea man, i know all that allready, but thanks anyway. his only concern was me having to stay on forever and only being 24. but thats just not something i care about.

 

[eddymerckx]

before you do any hrt, you may want to consider banking some swimmers--may be the best few bucks you ever spend in case you want kids down the road.

i woud still seek a second opinion as to possible treatments--best of luck to you and i hope it works out

 

[theslime]

before you do any hrt, you may want to consider banking some swimmers--may be the best few bucks you ever spend in case you want kids down the road.

Why do you say that? Its the second time i see you write something like aas use causes permanent infertility while its been shown to cause temporary infertility. If you get treated with hcg and hmg, you will get the girl pregnant. It might take a few months but it will work. Ulter used to discuss these topics...You can probably search it. That or pubmed. There is just enough scary steroid rumors running around without needing to start new ones. No disrespect intended.

 

[hesnobradpitt]

before you do any hrt, you may want to consider banking some swimmers--may be the best few bucks you ever spend in case you want kids down the road.

i woud still seek a second opinion as to possible treatments--best of luck to you and i hope it works out

Agreed money well spent .
And get a second opinion for advice .

Brad.

 

[eddymerckx]

Why do you say that? Its the second time i see you write something like anabolic androgenic steroids use causes permanent infertility while its been shown to cause temporary infertility. If you get treated with HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and hmg, you will get the girl pregnant. It might take a few months but it will work. Ulter used to discuss these topics...You can probably search it. That or pubmed. There is just enough scary steroid rumors running around without needing to start new ones. No disrespect intended.

you need to read what is going one here--sterility caused by gear is generally reversible--once you are off the gear and can take >1 year not just a few months. Here, the guy is considering perm hrt--which mean is htpa will shut down not to mention the complication caused by the tumor which could also cause perm sterility.

while plenty of guys are still fertile on gear, just as many are not and is dependent on so many other factors.----

so for you to offer the blanket statement that it can be fixed with some hcg and hmg in a couple of months later you are offering advice that may or may not be the case and could cause heartache down the road, whereas my advice is specific to this bro and has no downside whatsoever--except may the cost, but what is a few hundred dollars for piece of mind.

 

[theslime]

you need to read what is going one here--sterility caused by gear is generally reversible--once you are off the gear and can take >1 year not just a few months. Here, the guy is considering perm hrt--which mean is htpa will shut down not to mention the complication caused by the tumor which could also cause perm sterility.

while plenty of guys are still fertile on gear, just as many are not and is dependent on so many other factors.----

so for you to offer the blanket statement that it can be fixed with some HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and hmg in a couple of months later you are offering advice that may or may not be the case and could cause heartache down the road, whereas my advice is specific to this bro and has no downside whatsoever--except may the cost, but what is a few hundred dollars for piece of mind.

Like I said im only responding because its the second time you allude to permanent infertility and dont want people confuse. Writing wills, freezing sperm, getting a lawyer, etc are all possibilities to consider before starting long term use of steroids. But even for users of ten years or more, there is successful therapies for getting sperm count high enough for pregnancy. There are even possibilities while on HRT. Just ask a specialist.

 

[LiquidPhire]

Like I said im only responding because its the second time you allude to permanent infertility and dont want people confuse. Writing wills, freezing sperm, getting a lawyer, etc are all possibilities to consider before starting long term use of steroids. But even for users of ten years or more, there is successful therapies for getting sperm count high enough for pregnancy. There are even possibilities while on HRT. Just ask a specialist.

Glad to hear this man,

I inquired about banking some sperm it costs a few grand in my area atleast. (boston)

 

[halfcenturian]

Pardon my candor, but if you have a pituitary tumor, find out if it's benign or going to cause additional problems, or possibly require surgery. Get a second and third opinion. Forget about HRT until you have your Dr.'s ok that it's not cancerous. WTF are you thinking?

 

[theslime]

Glad to hear this man,

I inquired about banking some sperm it costs a few grand in my area atleast. (boston)

Another question you might want to ask yourself: is that how im gonna want to make a kid? If i had no other choice (unfortunately, i know some dont) i guess id go with that, but id prefer the natural way even if it takes more time. Just my opinion.

 

[eddymerckx]

Like I said im only responding because its the second time you allude to permanent infertility and dont want people confuse. Writing wills, freezing sperm, getting a lawyer, etc are all possibilities to consider before starting long term use of steroids. But even for users of ten years or more, there is successful therapies for getting sperm count high enough for pregnancy. There are even possibilities while on HRT. Just ask a specialist.]QUOTE]

treatment of gear–induced azoospermia is not an absolute science nor is it always sucessful--if it is always sucessful can you provide the citation?

you are more concerned with the public perception than with the reality of gear use for this one bro--i don't care about public perception, i am more concerned that this bro who is already supressed not take the next step of self medicating w/o a bit of planning.

if you object to this then i would argue that, specifically, it is such an attitude which fosters the notion that gear users do so w/o any care for long-term consequences.

 

[theslime]

Like I said im only responding because its the second time you allude to permanent infertility and dont want people confuse. Writing wills, freezing sperm, getting a lawyer, etc are all possibilities to consider before starting long term use of steroids. But even for users of ten years or more, there is successful therapies for getting sperm count high enough for pregnancy. There are even possibilities while on HRT. Just ask a specialist.]QUOTE]

treatment of gear–induced azoospermia is not an absolute science nor is it always sucessful--if it is always sucessful can you provide the citation?

you are more concerned with the public perception than with the reality of gear use for this one bro--i don't care about public perception, i am more concerned that this bro who is already supressed not take the next step of self medicating w/o a bit of planning.

if you object to this then i would argue that, specifically, it is such an attitude which fosters the notion that gear users do so w/o any care for long-term consequences.

I understand your point dr. Merckx. However, if you want to prove freezing sperm now and paying thousands of dollars is more logical than being treated by a fertility specialist in ten years if there is a problem, you would need to show a risk of permanent infertility. So...show me one documented case of permanent, non-treateable infertility caused by gear and I will abdicate. Unfortunately, except if the original poster has a lot of money to spend, it doesnt make much sense. I would just go on HRT if the doctor he consults thinks it makes sense.

 

[theslime]

Forgot to say: I do care about the poster but i also care about public perception. I fight it everyday and it pisses me off. Plus it justifies the government spending on shutting down legit labs and makes everyone paranoid.

 

[asianlover]

Pardon my candor, but if you have a pituitary tumor, find out if it's benign or going to cause additional problems, or possibly require surgery. Get a second and third opinion. Forget about HRT until you have your Dr.'s ok that it's not cancerous. WTF are you thinking?

its not cancerous and it never will be. it is only 4.1mm. this kind is VERY slow growing and it wouldn'y need to be removed until it get closer to 10mm. the only reason i am not writing all of the info is that the post would be 2 pages long. i apreciate your concern bro, but come the fuck on, this thing is in my goddamn brain. do you really think that i would be so wrekless about it?
i've been doing researth for months, ever since found out about this and i do have a medical background, so this stuff isn't foreign to me.
i was just wondering about normal HRT doses. there is probable a 99% chance that the doc is going to put me on it anyway, i was just curious.

 

[LiquidPhire]

its not cancerous and it never will be. it is only 4.1mm. this kind is VERY slow growing and it wouldn'y need to be removed until it get closer to 10mm. the only reason i am not writing all of the info is that the post would be 2 pages long. i apreciate your concern bro, but come the fuck on, this thing is in my goddamn brain. do you really think that i would be so wrekless about it?
i've been doing researth for months, ever since found out about this and i do have a medical background, so this stuff isn't foreign to me.
i was just wondering about normal HRT doses. there is probable a 99% chance that the doc is going to put me on it anyway, i was just curious.

He's just lookin out for you bro, no need to get defensive.

Why not just get it checked out just for a complete piece of mind?

 

[theblondebomber]

Do what your doctor tells you.

yea let insurance cover it.

 

[eddymerckx]

I understand your point dr. Merckx. However, if you want to prove freezing sperm now and paying thousands of dollars is more logical than being treated by a fertility specialist in ten years if there is a problem, you would need to show a risk of permanent infertility. So...show me one documented case of permanent, non-treateable infertility caused by gear and I will abdicate. Unfortunately, except if the original poster has a lot of money to spend, it doesnt make much sense. I would just go on HRT if the doctor he consults thinks it makes sense.

i do have a doctorate degree--and a post-doc--in tax law

and again, my advice was specific to the bro posting, but there are many cases in the lit that discuss restoring male fertility and use of anabolic androgenic steroids, but the crucial conclusion of all those articles is that modern drug treatment may restore fertility--not one says will. moreover, the drug regimes necessary to restore fertility are expensive and significant ($3k-$7k vs $600 to bank in Colorado). also, one of the reasons cited for not using test as male birth control is that (besides it is inconsistent and requires higher doses) is that there is no solid evidence that the htpa suppression is always reversible. see below.

and this why, as most ef bros know, but most noobs appear not to know, is why a solid PCT is so critical

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 86, No. 11 5108-5117

"Effects on gonads. A reduction in fertility associated with anabolic steroid use results due to gonadotropin suppression, which, in turn, results in azoospermia, abnormalities in sperm motility and morphology, and testicular atrophy (79, 80, 81). The reversibility of these effects is variable. Some have suggested that restoration of hormonal balance after discontinuation of anabolic androgenic steroids use allows testicular function to return to normal (82, 83), whereas other studies have shown the persistence of hormonal abnormalities even after discontinuation of anabolic androgenic steroids (84, 85).

79 Jarow JP, Lipshultz LI 1990 Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. Am J Sports Med 18:429[Free Full Text]

80 Kilshaw BH, Harkness RA, Hobson BM, Smith AWM 1975 The effects of large doses of the anabolic steroid, methandrostenolone, on an athlete. Clin Endocrinol 4:537[Medline]

81 Knuth UA, Maniera H, Nieschlag E 1989 Anabolic steroids and semen parameters in bodybuilders. Fertil Steril 52:1041[Medline]

82 Holma PK 1977 Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) on spermatogenesis. Contraception 15:151[CrossRef][Medline]

83 Lukas SE 1993 Current perspectives on anabolic-androgenic steroid abuse. Trneds Pharmacol Sci 14:61[CrossRef][Medline]

84 Turek PJ, Williams RH, Gilbaugh JH, Lipshultz LI 1995 The reversibility of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia. J Urol 153:1628–1630[CrossRef][Medline]

85 Martikainen H, Alen M, Rahkila P, Vihko R 1986 Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotropin during transient hypogonadotropic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes. J Steroid Biochem 25:109[Medline]

 

[xrsist]

100mg a week generally

here is Aus they use a sust 250 shot every 2-3 weeks

hrt is a big descision imo choose wisely bro, hrt is for life...

 

[Bridger]

To the guys in the debate:

Before starting TRT, it would be wise to find out if you are even fertile before deciding if you want to risk becoming possibly sterile. It would be much easier to test your sperm count first, then stress about TRT induced azoospermia.

 

[theslime]

To the guys in the debate:

Before starting TRT, it would be wise to find out if you are even fertile before deciding if you want to risk becoming possibly sterile. It would be much easier to test your sperm count first, then stress about TRT induced azoospermia.

Sure. What would be the point of freezing sperm with no swimmers.

 

[theslime]

I also think in vitro fertilization or other methods (that i know not very much of but that dont involve actual sex) would be the absolute last resort to a couple who doesnt have kids, really wanted some bad, went through fertility clinics first,had money, wouldnt consider adoption, etc. It is not something i would take very likely as in saying, well this is how im gonna have kids, i dont care a kid is a kid. It might be old fashioned but I know most guys would try pretty hard before choosing a method like that. I know I did when i got my girlfriend pregnant last year, a week after being on for three years straight. To someone who is platinum i would just do a search on the subject on a thread by ulter.