how catabolic is STRESS?? lets explore this one my friends...

[satchboogie]

i'm sure that every now and then everybody goes through stressful times.
divorce, family death, harsh break up's, financial problems.. the list goes on and on.

but how catabolic is stress for the bodybuilder?

lets take a few scenarios and attempt to explore this:

1) bodybuilder trains naturally and has a perfect life.. no problems whatsoever!

2) bodybuilder trains on 500mg susta per week but is going through a super super stressful time.

which will build more mass????

now i perfectly understand its impossible to answer this question precisely but would love to hear some feedback regarding stress/steroids/catabolism.

 

[Izzman]

Great Post Satch, I would say bodybuilder #1 would build just as good gains as #2 if not better due to the fact that even with AAS, catabolism is catabolism and cortisol if left uncontrolled can eat precious muscle easily. With regards to #1, the perfect environment makes allows for perfect gains.

 

[Lowest]

If they both are at the same level initially, then bodybuilder 2 for sure. If you eat right and train right, stress and lack of sleep will be more than made up for by 500mg/week of test. I know, one of my roommates years back did exactly this. He was a speed-freak, snorted ritalin and adderall all the time, stayed up for 2 days straight doing engineering projects, etc. That's hella stressful. However, he sucked down about 6000 calories per day with weight-gainer shakes and hit up 1400mg/week of test suspension. Over 3 months, he put on 80lbs of weight, from 155 up to 235. When he came off, he dropped to 220 and stayed there ever since. I don't know of anyone naturally who can come close to those gains. Granted, he took a hell of a lot more than 500/week of test, but the point remains valid. Stress is bad, yes, but it's nowhere near as strong as 500/week of test.

 

[manny78]

Depends on each person's metabolism. I'Ve seen people on great stress getting....fat. Others will stay the same. In any scenario, heavy and long term stress is something to stay away.

 

[goldenthree]

Definately number 2. Remember 500 mgs of test is 10x the amount of test the body naturally produces per week.(5-7 mgs/day) Also testosterone significantly reduces cortisol levels.

 

[majutsu]

great stuff satch. I think #2 as well. But, a good spin-off question is: Can we bodybuilders benefit from stress reduction or cortisol-blocking drugs? Can anyone name commonly used cortisol blockers?

 

[Still_big]

Ill be able to tell you guys at the end of my cycle, because Im stressed out beyound max

 

[Jarbeebus]

I wouldn't say stress is necessarily "catabolic", but certainly seems to have the potential to hinder gains.

Stress itself has a more subtle effect on the everyday functions in the body by demanding "resources" or activities otherwise reserved for excratory, neurological, immune, etc functions. Basically, your body has X amount of resources to dedicate these aforementioned functions. These resources can be increased by a solid diet and a healthy lifestyle, but on a given day, they are realtively finite.

Stress causes the endocrine system to react, and for the purpose of this thread, I believe it to be the most pertainant effect. Namely, your pituarity signals the release of "acth" (can't remember what this stands for...too much beer in college.) which causes other functions to "speed up". Higher blood pressure, and higher adrenal activity (adrenaline weee!) result. The liver reacts as well to produce quickly burnable glucose.

All of the processes above are needed to ensure time spent in the gym is worthwhile. Basically, a stressed lifter on gear is going to be taxing their system quite a bit harder, and potentially being cut short on gains/recovery.

I don't know of any emperical data to back up the idea of negatively effecting gains, but I think the logic is sound. What say you?

 

[ocisbomb]

I have an enormous amount of stress... like a shitload. Sounds like somebody's having girl problems... ?

 

[[email protected]]

I would say that bb #2 would make the best gains, assuming this was the same person, yet in differenty situations. But, the gains would be dramatically less. Possibly 50% less than would be gained if no stress was experienced. While I have no imperiacal evidence, I've delt with stress and it has greatly impacted my gains while on. For the negative, btw.

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

I believe scenario #2 would result in better gains... a lot better IMO.

Stress has such a general and subjective value attached to it... its erroneous to correlate it with Cortisol release without being very specific. Generally speaking... a bad semester at University or girl probelms wouldn't cause a significant release of Cortisol... not enough to cause muscle atrophy. Living for months on end in a war plagued environment would though. That's when you'd see young (otherwise healthy) females having miscarriages due to massive release of stress hormones... shit like that.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

i would say number 2 would make the better gains, almost certainly

of course we are talking about stress very stereotypically (ie with the same shotgun vocabulary that we use when we say things like "eat right" "exercise" and all of those blurry words) but cortisol is known as THE stress hormone - you get an increase on plasma cortisol along the lines of about 20 odd percent above normal physiological range, but clinically you might see similar levels lifelong in someone who has something like Cushings Syndrome, or someone that we are bombing with cortisol or other catabolic hormones for long periods of time - and while these patients certainly are smaller/pudgier than your average person, just going off a guestimation and personal experience/opinion, the 'bigness' (for wont of a better word now that im tired) of a steroid supplementing athlete is much much much more significant compared to the 'smallness' of someone with sky high cortisol or other severely catabolic hormone levels.

its also a bit of common sense - you see some really, really stressed out people (people in jail, people who lose partners/family, people in ultra high stress jobs etc etc and they dont really shrink all that much. then you take a look at a guy putting on 1lb or more per week on a test cycle, and you have to at least suspect that roid doses of anabolics are going to overpower the negative impact of whatever biochemical changes severe stress is likely to cause

i once returned a huge cortisol reading once, and my doc thought i had cushings ( ) so i kinda read up on it. it was quite interesting being in the doctors office after having squatted 400+ lbs for a set and being asked if i had trouble lifting my bodyweight up the stairs (a symptom of cushings) im like "...uh.....yeah.....for the next couple days, sure"

anyway, damn test was out. bastard had me worried too. interesting thread

 

[idcbp]

Yeah, it would be number two. 500 mg of sust. makes a big difference, but your notion of stress as a factor is dead on. If instead they both had the same diet, exercise and drugs, but one had a high degree of stress...I'd say that his gains could be diminished by 10-20% and thats not with diet,exercise the same. Odds are that those two would be both adversely affected by the stress as well. Positive thinking and a focused mental approach is a cornerstone of serious development. It not the only factor, but like good genetics, a confident positive attitude (which contributes to a stress-reduced environment) is present in almost all elite physiques. Stress is catabolic on a physical level and every bit as destructive through its effects on routine, focus and intensity.

 

[Smokescreen]

Karma to the fucking Boogie Man! Great post! Satch..for a natural BB, the whole stress thing would really suck. But I would go with #2. I was in that situation this past summer. I had money problems and worries about it. Worries about my business. Got very little sleep. Probably around 5-3 hours a night. Had some problems with the wife too. But still, while taking gear, I was able to gain 15lbs of muscle and shed fat from 10% down 7.5%. I can only imagine how much more muscle I would have gained and how much more fat I would have shed if I didn't have stress and got more sleep.

 

[Smokescreen]

WTF is going on? I'm trying to give Satch Karma and its not letting me!

 

[Mavy]

i'm sure that every now and then everybody goes through stressful times.
divorce, family death, harsh break up's, financial problems.. the list goes on and on.

but how catabolic is stress for the bodybuilder?

lets take a few scenarios and attempt to explore this:

1) bodybuilder trains naturally and has a perfect life.. no problems whatsoever!

2) bodybuilder trains on 500mg susta per week but is going through a super super stressful time.

which will build more mass????

now i perfectly understand its impossible to answer this question precisely but would love to hear some feedback regarding stress/steroids/catabolism.

Good post Satchy-boy! Stress is a fucking killer .. I am serious. Its basically just wear and tear on your body. I would think that dbol is great to take if you are stressed and on a cycle, do to what it does to reduce cortisone.

Its seems that I am stessed all the fucking time these days. One thing that I am learning is that the older you get ... the more stress you get! lol. I have been sent to a stress management course at my work. I get stressed a lot at work, as I am responsible for a lot of things and people. I am getting quite good at dealling with it now though. Here A few things that I have learned from the book that I have that help....

1. Become aware of your stressors and your emotional and physical reactions.
Notice your distress. Don't ignore it. Don't gloss over your problems.
Determine what events distress you. What are you telling yourself about meaning of these events?
Determine how your body responds to the stress. Do you become nervous or physically upset? If so, in what specific ways?

2. Recognize what you can change.
Can you change your stressors by avoiding or eliminating them completely?
Can you reduce their intensity (manage them over a period of time instead of on a daily or weekly basis)?
Can you shorten your exposure to stress (take a break, leave the physical premises)?
Can you devote the time and energy necessary to making a change (goal setting, time management techniques, and delayed gratification strategies may be helpful here)?

3. Reduce the intensity of your emotional reactions to stress.
The stress reaction is triggered by your perception of danger...physical danger and/or emotional danger. Are you viewing your stressors in exaggerated terms and/or taking a difficult situation and making it a disaster?
Are you expecting to please everyone?
Are you overreacting and viewing things as absolutely critical and urgent? Do you feel you must always prevail in every situation?
Work at adopting more moderate views; try to see the stress as something you can cope with rather than something that overpowers you.
Try to temper your excess emotions. Put the situation in perspective. Do not labor on the negative aspects and the "what if's."

4. Learn to moderate your physical reactions to stress.
Slow, deep breathing will bring your heart rate and respiration back to normal.
Relaxation techniques can reduce muscle tension. Electronic biofeedback can help you gain voluntary control over such things as muscle tension, heart reate, and blood pressure.
Medications, when prescribed by a physician, can help in the short term in moderating your physical reactions. However, they alone are not the answer. Learning to moderate these reactions on your own is a preferable long-term solution.

5. Build your physical reserves.
Exercise for cardiovascular fitness three to four times a week (moderate, prolonged rhythmic exercise is best, such as walking, swimming, cycling, or jogging).
Eat well-balanced, nutritious meals.
Maintain your ideal weight.
Avoid nicotine, excessive caffeine, and other stimulants.
Mix leisure with work. Take breaks and get away when you can.
Get enough sleep. Be as consistent with your sleep schedule as possible.

6. Maintain your emotional reserves.
Develop some mutually supportive friendships/relationships.
Pursue realistic goals which are meaningful to you, rather than goals others have for you that you do not share.
Expect some frustrations, failures, and sorrows.
Always be kind and gentle with yourself -- be a friend to yourself.


Smoking the odd joint will help you chill a little too! ...

 

[wnt2bBeast]

good thread..this is something i dont think many consider, including myself..i think personality would play a key role in here..i work in an ultra stressful job ive seen men cry and lose everything in teh blink of an eye..granted those are catastropic events but im the type of person who for the most part is rather mellow..when i walk out of my building thats it work is over and i think about other things..

 

[yomama]

 

[Slyder190]

Oh boy am I fucked I guess. I don't freak out over things, but I have short I talian fuse and my mind is forever thinking about anything and everything. I guess I can be glad for juice and weed.

 

[patsfan1379]

absolutely awesome article... stress and depression will take an enormous toll on your body... but they pass... it takes a long ass time, but you'll be stronger and more confident if you get through it yourself, and if at all possible, without meds... I was severely stressed and kida depressed for about 5 months... now its passing.. and i feel f-ing good... its all in your head...

 

[VictorBR]

I would say that my life has been pretty much streesfull and problematic the last 2 years . Like never before , I have a problematic relantionship , serious financial problems , and family problems all at once . When those problems started I lost my focus , was training a lot less and eating junk food all day and of course gaiend a ton of fat , now I lost all the fat that I have gained and I still have those problems , BUT I have learned how to NOT let them get on my way ....

My progress has been good so far ( lost all the fat that I have gained and regained all the muscle that I have lost ) , and I have not used any AAS in the last 2 years , but I do feel that my progress would be even better by now if my life was 100 % perfect like it used to be ....

I am waiting for my life to get in order before I start my cycle , why ? Yes , cortisol and stress . I want to maximize my cycle to the most so I will only start when I get my shit straight ... That is why I am holding it back so much ...I could have started by now ...but I will wait , patience is the key here .


Victor

 

[Ffactor]

Definitely #2, positive nitrogen balance and anti-catabolic effect will by far outweigh high cortisol levels induced by stress.

 

[loik4]

#2 No doubt. Just have to watch for temper flaring up while on the juice, and stressed out at the same time. This is probably the main reason 18 & under should avoid AAS. Just my opinion.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

Stress is a diffuse phenomenon, hard to nail down. Gaining muscle is an adaptation to stress, so is catabolism. That's why blocking cortisol is a no-no, apart from the sides if you drop your cortisol levels too low (death), cortisol is an integral part of anabolism, gotta tear it down to build it bigger, though steroids work partly by inhibiting the tear down while encouraging the building, cortisol is a part of the process, even for those on AAS.

Goldendelicious said it right: having a nagging bitch for a girlfriend or flunking out of college or whatever won't raise your stress hormones as much as lifting heavy-ass weights really hard really consistently. So guy no. 1 is still under a lot of stress even with the perfect life and all.

Cortisol is cortisol regardless of whether the stimulus is physical or emotional. I would argue that there is good stress and bad stress and the difference is psychological and lifestyle oriented to a great degree.

Just to go off on a tangent, sure steroids mask many of the effects of cortisol on the body; that doesn't mean the messages being sent by the body in response to stress disappear. There ain't no free lunches. To pick one thing, a main effect of sustained cortisol release is preferential visceral fat accumulation; a fat deposition pattern linked with heart disease, hypertension and diabetes, possibly a risk factor for a bunch of other nasty stuff. Contrary to popular belief cortisol doesn't make you fat (unless released in MASSIVE quantities) but it does influence the type of fat you gain. Lifting weights is stressful, bulking then dieting then bulking like a yo-yo is stressful, particularly when the body will preferentially preserve visceral fat to protect the internal organs in response to starvation signals. There's plenty of guys with great abs who have pot bellies, their fat is all behind the abdominal wall, bodybuilders are notorious for this.

 

[boogersnax]

Anabolic Steroids reduce the secretion of cortisol. Once off cycle, cortisol returns with a vengence, the reason why it's so hard to keep gains. There is a very good treatment of this subject in Author L. Rea's book "BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST." The book is really worth picking up and adding to your library.

PEACE
Booger...

 

[Doktor Bollix]

Anabolic Steroids reduce the secretion of cortisol. Once off cycle, cortisol returns with a vengence, the reason why it's so hard to keep gains. ..

Not 100% correct there bro. My understanding is that AAS block the binding of cortisol to receptor sites in the muscles not the secretion of cortisol in the adrenal cortex.

There are still consequences to high cortisol levels in the AAS user as cortisol and related hormones have effects on other parts of the body than the muscles and influence other aspects of the body's functioning.

Here's another example: cortisol suppresses the immune system. AAS users are more prone to diseases, colds etc, in the period right after they start their cycle. I've read ten million posts by guys saying they got sick as soon as they got up on their cycle. Everybody always says it's the drugs though nobody knows why. The simplest answer - suddenly elevated cortisol levels due to all the tissue damage and exertion of a guy hitting the weights with increased intensity and immune system suppression is hardly ever mentioned.

It's true about cortisol being ramped up post cycle. The scary bit is that cortisol receptor sites also increase. That's why guys should try and get their levels down before they go off cycle by taking a little time out of the gym and healing up before they have to deal with all the post cycle cortisol.

 

[DIVISION]

1) bodybuilder trains naturally and has a perfect life.. no problems whatsoever!

2) bodybuilder trains on 500mg susta per week but is going through a super super stressful time.

which will build more mass????

#1 builds more mass.

A stress-free environment is an anabolic environment.





DIV

 

[40butpumpin]

i think regardless of how much negative stress one has in their life, if training continues AND nutrition and sleep doesn't suffer, there will be NO noticible drop off in physique or strength. I will add that what gear used in not nearly as important as maintaining training consistency, getting adequate sleep, and perhaps most importantly getting the right nutrition in and at the right times. so 500mg sustanon, in and of itself, will do absolutely nothing to protect you from the ravages of stress if that's all you do. imo anyway.