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honey post-workout?
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Babyfaced Assassin
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John berardi says honey is a good carb both pre and post workout but post workout, Dextrose, Malto Dextrins and or glucse or far better choices than honey.
On the flipside, i've read that there's something in honey that helps with recovery
On the flipside, i've read that there's something in honey that helps with recovery
SubjectiveIllusion
New member
Not a good choice. The G.I.'s too low.
Babyfaced Assassin
New member
Q: Lately, some people at my gym keep telling me that honey is the best carbohydrate to take after workouts. I argue that dextrose and maltodextrin are the best. Can you settle this debate for us?
A: Ahh, that's what the honeybees would have you believe. But can't you see that those pesky little critters have a hidden agenda? There are little "news" articles all over the Internet reviewing some recently presented abstracts about supplemental honey taken before and after the workout and making claims that honey is the best pre-workout and post-workout carbohydrate source. However, these little articles have failed to do one thing… tell the whole story. Let's examine the abstracts and see what they have to say.
The following two studies are abstracts taken from the 2000 National Strength and Conditioning Association's yearly conference. Until these abstracts are written up in full paper format and submitted for peer review, we won't know all the details of the studies and will only know what was presented at the conference. Until then I'll treat them as preliminary data and talk about what we do know.
Abstract #1 - Pre-Workout Carbohydrates
Effects of Pre-Exercise Carbohydrate Feedings on Glucose and Insulin Responses During and After Resistance Exercise. Earnest, C. et al. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2000, 14(3), 259-372.
This study examined the effects of different kinds of carbohydrate gels given PRIOR to a bout of resistance exercise. Subjects were given one of four treatments: a placebo, dextrose, honey, or PowerGel. Measures were collected immediately after, and at times 30, 60, 90, and 120 minutes after training. Blood variables that were measured included glucose, insulin, triglycerides, urea nitrogen, creatinine, and muscle and liver enzymes.
Results:
1. None of the above variables were statistically different between groups. However, a few trends were noted.
2. All three carbohydrate-containing treatments appeared to decrease muscle catabolism.
3. Dextrose supplementation appeared to lead to the largest insulin release and appeared to blunt exercise induced release of muscle and liver enzymes (markers of muscle damage).
4. Honey supplementation appeared to lead to the most prolonged insulin release.
Since this is only an abstract, some important pieces of the puzzle are missing. However, the conclusions appear relatively clear. When taken before exercise, 50g of carbohydrate promotes anti catabolic blood profiles during the post-workout period. While there were no differences between groups, it appears that dextrose may be the winner of this carbohydrate challenge in terms of peak insulin release and anti-catabolic effects.
However, it does appear that honey, with its low glycemic index (GI = 73) vs. that of dextrose (GI = 98), may win on the glycemic index front. The prolonged insulin release is probably due to its slow appearance into the blood (low GI) and this characteristic is certainly of benefit when ingested BEFORE the workout. This way, insulin won't rise too high, which would lead blood sugar levels to crash and cause you to bonk. So, if you want to take in some carbohydrates before the workout, honey may be superior.
But remember, the authors didn't give a post workout drink after training. Subjects had to fast for those 2 hours while blood was drawn. So although carbohydrates taken before training may be good if you don't plan on eating after the workout, a good post-workout drink taken immediately after exercise would certainly show more anabolic and anti-catabolic effects than any treatment in this study.
Abstract #2 - Post-Workout Carbohydrates
Effects of Ingesting Protein With Various Forms of Carbohydrate Following Resistance Exercise on Substrate Availability and Markers of Catabolism. Kreider, R. et al. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2000, 14(3), 259-372
This study examined the effects of different post-workout nutritional combinations. Subjects performed a resistance training bout and immediately after consumed one of four beverages: a placebo, 40g of whey protein and 120g of sucrose, 40g of whey protein and 120g maltodextrin, or 40g whey protein and 120g of powdered honey. Blood samples were taken at 30, 60, 90, and 120 minutes after supplementation and analyzed for substrates, hormones, and markers of muscle damage/catabolism.
Results:
1. The honey group had the largest glucose area under the curve (i.e. the carbs from the honey drink stuck around in the blood for longer than the carbs from the other drinks).
2. There were no differences between carbohydrate groups for insulin release.
3. Testosterone and cortisol levels decreased after exercise in all groups.
4. The T:C ratio was more favorable in the honey and maltodextrin groups than in the sucrose and placebo groups.
Since all the current literature is clear on the fact that a protein plus carbohydrate beverage makes for the best post-workout option, the next step is to determine the optimal types of protein and carbohydrate. In this study it appears that honey and maltodextrin are good carbohydrate choices (when taken with protein) for a favorable hormonal profile after training. There were no differences between the honey and maltodextrin groups but they were both better than sucrose and water.
However, since the goal of optimal post-workout nutrition is to drive amino acids and carbohydrates quickly into the muscle (and, incidentally, out of the blood), maltodextrin appears superior to honey. Since maltodextrin is more rapidly cleared from the blood (GI = 105) and the honey isn't cleared as rapidly, maltodextrin may be better at replenishing muscle glycogen, a necessary component of recovery.
Taken together, I believe that if you eat carbohydrates prior to working out, any low GI carbohydrate source like honey is a good choice but there's probably nothing magical about honey. However, after the workout, it appears that high GI carbohydrates like dextrose, maltodextrin-or a combination of the two-might be far better carbohydrate sources in terms of peak insulin release, maximum anti-catabolic effects, favorable Testosterone to cortisol ratio, and muscle glycogen replenishment.
Why then have the results of these studies been slanted in order to say that honey is best? Well, that's because those doing the slanting are affiliated with the National Honey Board, the organization that funded the research studies listed above. Again, honey is a good moderate GI carbohydrate source but it's probably not much better than many others. Trouble is, during the post-workout period, it may be worse than many others.
I hope the bees don't get mad at me for dissin' on their honey!
Q: When I read the back of the label of Biotest Surge, it looks like there are only a few measley grams of glutamine and BCAAs! Heck, my protein powder provides more than this. What gives?
A: This is an issue many people are confused about, but the answer is simple. The label lists the ADDITIONAL amino acids that have been ADDED to those already present in the special whey protein hydrolysate mix we chose for this forumla. So basically, although the label lists 3 grams of L-Glutamine, 3g of Phenylalanine, 2.25g of L-Leucine, 1.75g of L-Valine, and 1.25g of L-IsoLeucine, there are much more of each amino acid in each serving. In fact, the total content of these 5 amino acids amounts to greater than 25 total grams of amino acids!
Now, we couldn't give you the exact totals of each amino acid, could we? This would mean giving away the research-tested ratios of BCAA and glutamine that have proven so effective in several studies.
For you savvy rival supplement manufacturers who think you can look at the amino acid content of regular whey protein hydrolysates to come up with the exact totals, think again. The amino acid content of different whey hydrolysates can vary by several percentage points, so while you may be able to get close to our formula, you won't know the exact formula unless you break into Tim Patterson's office and steal it!
A: Ahh, that's what the honeybees would have you believe. But can't you see that those pesky little critters have a hidden agenda? There are little "news" articles all over the Internet reviewing some recently presented abstracts about supplemental honey taken before and after the workout and making claims that honey is the best pre-workout and post-workout carbohydrate source. However, these little articles have failed to do one thing… tell the whole story. Let's examine the abstracts and see what they have to say.
The following two studies are abstracts taken from the 2000 National Strength and Conditioning Association's yearly conference. Until these abstracts are written up in full paper format and submitted for peer review, we won't know all the details of the studies and will only know what was presented at the conference. Until then I'll treat them as preliminary data and talk about what we do know.
Abstract #1 - Pre-Workout Carbohydrates
Effects of Pre-Exercise Carbohydrate Feedings on Glucose and Insulin Responses During and After Resistance Exercise. Earnest, C. et al. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2000, 14(3), 259-372.
This study examined the effects of different kinds of carbohydrate gels given PRIOR to a bout of resistance exercise. Subjects were given one of four treatments: a placebo, dextrose, honey, or PowerGel. Measures were collected immediately after, and at times 30, 60, 90, and 120 minutes after training. Blood variables that were measured included glucose, insulin, triglycerides, urea nitrogen, creatinine, and muscle and liver enzymes.
Results:
1. None of the above variables were statistically different between groups. However, a few trends were noted.
2. All three carbohydrate-containing treatments appeared to decrease muscle catabolism.
3. Dextrose supplementation appeared to lead to the largest insulin release and appeared to blunt exercise induced release of muscle and liver enzymes (markers of muscle damage).
4. Honey supplementation appeared to lead to the most prolonged insulin release.
Since this is only an abstract, some important pieces of the puzzle are missing. However, the conclusions appear relatively clear. When taken before exercise, 50g of carbohydrate promotes anti catabolic blood profiles during the post-workout period. While there were no differences between groups, it appears that dextrose may be the winner of this carbohydrate challenge in terms of peak insulin release and anti-catabolic effects.
However, it does appear that honey, with its low glycemic index (GI = 73) vs. that of dextrose (GI = 98), may win on the glycemic index front. The prolonged insulin release is probably due to its slow appearance into the blood (low GI) and this characteristic is certainly of benefit when ingested BEFORE the workout. This way, insulin won't rise too high, which would lead blood sugar levels to crash and cause you to bonk. So, if you want to take in some carbohydrates before the workout, honey may be superior.
But remember, the authors didn't give a post workout drink after training. Subjects had to fast for those 2 hours while blood was drawn. So although carbohydrates taken before training may be good if you don't plan on eating after the workout, a good post-workout drink taken immediately after exercise would certainly show more anabolic and anti-catabolic effects than any treatment in this study.
Abstract #2 - Post-Workout Carbohydrates
Effects of Ingesting Protein With Various Forms of Carbohydrate Following Resistance Exercise on Substrate Availability and Markers of Catabolism. Kreider, R. et al. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2000, 14(3), 259-372
This study examined the effects of different post-workout nutritional combinations. Subjects performed a resistance training bout and immediately after consumed one of four beverages: a placebo, 40g of whey protein and 120g of sucrose, 40g of whey protein and 120g maltodextrin, or 40g whey protein and 120g of powdered honey. Blood samples were taken at 30, 60, 90, and 120 minutes after supplementation and analyzed for substrates, hormones, and markers of muscle damage/catabolism.
Results:
1. The honey group had the largest glucose area under the curve (i.e. the carbs from the honey drink stuck around in the blood for longer than the carbs from the other drinks).
2. There were no differences between carbohydrate groups for insulin release.
3. Testosterone and cortisol levels decreased after exercise in all groups.
4. The T:C ratio was more favorable in the honey and maltodextrin groups than in the sucrose and placebo groups.
Since all the current literature is clear on the fact that a protein plus carbohydrate beverage makes for the best post-workout option, the next step is to determine the optimal types of protein and carbohydrate. In this study it appears that honey and maltodextrin are good carbohydrate choices (when taken with protein) for a favorable hormonal profile after training. There were no differences between the honey and maltodextrin groups but they were both better than sucrose and water.
However, since the goal of optimal post-workout nutrition is to drive amino acids and carbohydrates quickly into the muscle (and, incidentally, out of the blood), maltodextrin appears superior to honey. Since maltodextrin is more rapidly cleared from the blood (GI = 105) and the honey isn't cleared as rapidly, maltodextrin may be better at replenishing muscle glycogen, a necessary component of recovery.
Taken together, I believe that if you eat carbohydrates prior to working out, any low GI carbohydrate source like honey is a good choice but there's probably nothing magical about honey. However, after the workout, it appears that high GI carbohydrates like dextrose, maltodextrin-or a combination of the two-might be far better carbohydrate sources in terms of peak insulin release, maximum anti-catabolic effects, favorable Testosterone to cortisol ratio, and muscle glycogen replenishment.
Why then have the results of these studies been slanted in order to say that honey is best? Well, that's because those doing the slanting are affiliated with the National Honey Board, the organization that funded the research studies listed above. Again, honey is a good moderate GI carbohydrate source but it's probably not much better than many others. Trouble is, during the post-workout period, it may be worse than many others.
I hope the bees don't get mad at me for dissin' on their honey!
Q: When I read the back of the label of Biotest Surge, it looks like there are only a few measley grams of glutamine and BCAAs! Heck, my protein powder provides more than this. What gives?
A: This is an issue many people are confused about, but the answer is simple. The label lists the ADDITIONAL amino acids that have been ADDED to those already present in the special whey protein hydrolysate mix we chose for this forumla. So basically, although the label lists 3 grams of L-Glutamine, 3g of Phenylalanine, 2.25g of L-Leucine, 1.75g of L-Valine, and 1.25g of L-IsoLeucine, there are much more of each amino acid in each serving. In fact, the total content of these 5 amino acids amounts to greater than 25 total grams of amino acids!
Now, we couldn't give you the exact totals of each amino acid, could we? This would mean giving away the research-tested ratios of BCAA and glutamine that have proven so effective in several studies.
For you savvy rival supplement manufacturers who think you can look at the amino acid content of regular whey protein hydrolysates to come up with the exact totals, think again. The amino acid content of different whey hydrolysates can vary by several percentage points, so while you may be able to get close to our formula, you won't know the exact formula unless you break into Tim Patterson's office and steal it!
Reading that study would lead me to believe that the answer to the question is "yes honey is a good post workout option". If you don't have any dextrose/maltodextrin on hand then honey is much better than other sugar options. I used to use honey exclusively as my post workout carb source a couple of years ago and it seemed to work well for me. Lately I've been trying to get more real food since I'm dieting but if you had no dextrose then honey would be a great choice.
Babyfaced Assassin
New member
vageta yeah that's pretty much the gist of it. I remember reading on AST-SS's website that honey was good post workout because it helped recovery due to certain minerals in it.
I personally have found better recovery with a straight Glucose whey shake though
I personally have found better recovery with a straight Glucose whey shake though
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