hcg overuse??

[liftr486]

hey...wat happens if u use too much hcg-wat side effects will occur, will the clomid then be less effective??

 

[KalsiJat]

If you use excessive amounts of HCG, youll wind up with PERMANENT gonadal dysfunction. The testicles will stop responding to LH as theyve been desensitised. See here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cathcg.htm

 

[Ashamed]

If you use excessive amounts of HCG, youll wind up with PERMANENT gonadal dysfunction. The testicles will stop responding to LH as theyve been desensitised. See here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cathcg.htm

I seriously doubt that overuse of HCG will cause permanent testicular dysfunction. Just cos some geezer on a website says that overuse causes permanent dysfunction, and a thousand newbs take that info literally and verbatim..........

edited to add: that site doesn't even mention permanent dysfunction...

 

[OfimNedu]

I seriously doubt that overuse of HCG will cause permanent testicular dysfunction. Just cos some geezer on a website says that overuse causes permanent dysfunction, and a thousand newbs take that info literally and verbatim..........

edited to add: that site doesn't even mention permanent dysfunction...

Excessively high dosages of hcg will damage leydig cells and can cause primary hypogonadism while treating secondary hypogonadism.

There are a number of studies that show this to be the case all over medline and endocrin journals. Swale is a huge advocate of this and he is one of the leading HRT doctors for bodybuilders around.

Follow these things if you want to see the threads. If you actually read through the studies you'll see that although it's mainly anecdotal evidence either through animals or in vitro that it sounds like hCG at large doses does not desensitize Leydig cells in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism whereas it does in normal men.

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=7355&highlight=leydig+hypogonadism

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=4031&highlight=leydig+hypogonadism

This suggest that tamoxifen may help combat this desensitization:

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=2001&highlight=leydig+hypogonadism

 

[Ashamed]

After a cycle or at the end of a cycle I would say a bodybuilder is closer to a hypogonadic state than a normal state....

 

[OfimNedu]

After a cycle or at the end of a cycle I would say a bodybuilder is closer to a hypogonadic state than a normal state....

I'd agree with this however I think the definition is inconclusive. Surely they exhibit hypogonadal symptoms however the definition of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism or Kallman Syndrome is:

Kallmann Syndrome is a rare inherited disorder in which the organ that produces sex cells does not function properly (hypogonadism) and there is a loss of the sense of smell (anosmia). The impaired production of hormones as well as sperm and egg cells often causes delayed puberty, growth and infertility. This disorder affects both males and females, although it is more common in males.

If the hypogonadic state is induced by AS would the cell desensitization still exist?

 

[geoboy]

what dose levels or length of use would be considered excessive, sufficient to cause desensitization?

 

[KalsiJat]

"I seriously doubt that overuse of HCG will cause permanent testicular dysfunction. Just cos some geezer on a website says that overuse causes permanent dysfunction, and a thousand newbs take that info literally and verbatim.........."

That site doesnt say about permanent damage. However:

“But staying on HCG for more than 3 weeks without atleast a month off between HCG cycles could cause permanent gonadal dysfunction and/or desensitising of Leydig cells.”

Page 87, “Chemical Muscle Enhancement” by Author L. Rea

 

[Ashamed]

I used 15000IU over a period of about 10 weeks during a long cycle...

Was that too much? That amounts to 1500IU per week for 10 weeks DURING A LONG CYCLE....

 

[Ashamed]

Swale says that 2 x 500IU per week for the duration of a cycle is fine...

And that other cutting edge link says 1000IU ed for 10 days is ok.. that again is about same dose that I have taken.....

This whole area is so wishy washy.

 

[KalsiJat]

Its not an exact science. However, why fuck around with stuff that can screw you up? Its better to run the dosages low (not more than 1500 IUs) and not run them too long - that way youre covered against shrinkage and not running a risk.

One doesnt need HCG beyond a point anyway. Its only useful to bring the balls back into play. After that, provided clomid is used in conjunction, theres no point in running HCG. Unless youre running a really long cycle, but thats another matter.........

 

[Ashamed]

I used 15000IU over ten weeks DURING a long cycle.. it brought the balls out a fair bit... but did I take too much?

 

[KalsiJat]

Well, you dont need to run HCG every week. Ball shrinkage doesnt occure until week 4/5 anyway - even with a strong depot test (unless youre running Suspension which is another matter).

I believe its only useful to bring the balls back to size. After you achieve that in say weeks 6,7,8, do you need to run it during weeks 9 and 10, do you? I wouldnt think so. It also isnt the cheapest shit on earth. Id be loath to inject more of anything if I can help it.

 

[KalsiJat]

I think one can also allow the balls to shrink a bit and then inject HCG around weeks 8,9 and 10 in a combination with Nolva and get the exact same effect, instead of running it right through a cycle......

 

[zziggzzigg]

how about hrt using only hcg? has anyone worked out a successful protocal that worked well long term? or perhaps half and half (ie. hcg once a week with cyp once a week, or something like that long term)

any comments?

 

[MMAfighter]

i was thinking along the same lines, however, adding clomid to the mix. both hcg and clomid bring my test up SiGNIFICANTLY beyond normal levels. the first time i used them i felt like i was on another cycle. i could 2-3 week roids, 2 weeks hcg, a few weeks of clomid and then restart, without ever having a letdown. any see any problems with this program?

 

[mlong23]

I seriously doubt that overuse of HCG will cause permanent testicular dysfunction. Just cos some geezer on a website says that overuse causes permanent dysfunction, and a thousand newbs take that info literally and verbatim..........

edited to add: that site doesn't even mention permanent dysfunction...

If you've ever read anything before than you would now that it could permantly damage you, just like he says.

 

[mlong23]

Question?

At what point is it when it is overuse?

 

[Ashamed]

If you've ever read anything before than you would now that it could permantly damage you, just like he says.

If you had read any of the links and understood shit, you would realise that it isn't as simple as that.

fool