Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Here's the deal. I have been training with b fold for the past month or so, and the most I've pulled on deads is 405, although b fold and myself think I could have gotten 425. This was earlier this week. I want to be able to deadlift 500 in 5 weeks. My training with b fold is my first experience with WSB style training, and I didn't start deadlifting until about two months ago. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on training methods that will boost my deadlift to the 500 lb. mark so that I can meet my goal. Right now, I am doing box squats, pull thrus, and Bottom Position GMs to help with my deadlift strength. B Fold has some video clips of my box squats and my deadlift I think. I think he is going to post a link to those so you all can critique my form and help me out. ANY SUGGESTIONS on new exercises to try to bring up my deadlift would be appreciated. Thanks in advance to all that reply.
Goal: 500lb. Deadlift
- Thread starter bearrito
- Start date
Ok, I figured you or Hannibal would want to know more info. I have been doing speed deads with light weight, 225, once every week. I do 6 sets of singles. I figure I need to start increasing the weight I use on these. Just for some further info, I did box squats tonight with B Fold, and I used 225 with the blue bands single wrapped. Did 8 sets of 2, but my form was bad until the last couple of sets. I think I have weak hips. Hope this info helps.
louden_swain
New member
Everything looks solid! If you train with B Fold, your 500lb deadlift will arrive.
CrimsonKing
New member
Bearrito -
You and I pull about the same PR on deads. For me, I think it's about strengthing the hips and lower back. I'm doing alot more GM's and heavy pull thru's.
I watched your 405 pull and form looks very good except I think you might be able to use a little more leg drive at the start of the lift. Do you pull back on the bar at the start of lift? That is proper technique.
Where do you fail? Bottom, mid, lockout? That will give you a good idea on where to start as far as building a stronger DL.
You and I pull about the same PR on deads. For me, I think it's about strengthing the hips and lower back. I'm doing alot more GM's and heavy pull thru's.
I watched your 405 pull and form looks very good except I think you might be able to use a little more leg drive at the start of the lift. Do you pull back on the bar at the start of lift? That is proper technique.
Where do you fail? Bottom, mid, lockout? That will give you a good idea on where to start as far as building a stronger DL.
Your approach looks solid, heavy good mornings and deads off a 5" box (my sticking point was the floor) helped me a lot. After reading spatt's post I should work on speed myself, I can pull 600+ but I have no speed, could probably do a lot more if I worked on that aspect
We do a couple things to work speed. Mostly band work. You can choke the bands on the floor, get on a box, and work speed from the bottom, and you can do reverse band deadlifts to work speed at the top. You can also do hip thrusts for speed with or without bands...belt squats too.
I don't spend alot of time at the bar. I walk up to it and grab it. I just feel like I get more speed that way. How do you pull now?
I don't spend alot of time at the bar. I walk up to it and grab it. I just feel like I get more speed that way. How do you pull now?
Thanks for all the advice so far guys. It was actually B Fold's idea for me to post and ask you guys for some tips. I am not sure where my sticking point is exactly, but I think it is the lower portion of the lift, off the floor. I need to do more GMs. I do pull thrus every week.
Needsize: I will try standing on something that is several inches high and see if that helps.
Any more suggestions anyone?
Needsize: I will try standing on something that is several inches high and see if that helps.
Any more suggestions anyone?
Spatts: I assume you are asking how I pull as in how do I set up for my lift. I don't just walk up to the bar and grab and go. I normally get my hand placement, then position my body, and then go. you can see this in the video b fold posted. Something b fold pointed out to me, and that I just noticed myself, is that my heels appear to come off the ground during my lift. Apparently I need to lean back more thru the lift.
Yes, you pull BACK, and for lack of a better expression, you $%^& the bar. Sorry...that's about the only way I can accurately describe it. 
You must be leaning forward alot? Are your shoulders PAST the bar?
You may have already seen this, but this is 419 reverse band dead, which trains the lockout.
http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/s419rbdl.mpg
You must be leaning forward alot? Are your shoulders PAST the bar?
You may have already seen this, but this is 419 reverse band dead, which trains the lockout.
http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/s419rbdl.mpg
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Spatts: It looks like, in the 405 pull video, that my shoulders are directly above the bar, not in front of or behind it. I will give the reverse band deads a try sometime. I am thinking about trying rack pulls also. When I really lean back with the bar, I feel as if I am going to fall over backwards, so I stop leaning so much. B fold tells me that this is how I should kind of feel if I'm leaning back like I should though. Obviously if my heels were coming off the ground though, I need to lean back some more.
bearrito said:
Bfold would be correct.
Takes LOTS of core/hip strength.
In that video it looks like you are doing something VERY similar to what PROJECT does...it looks like three moves. More like an SLDL. He lifts it with his erectors, and completely leaves the hips out. See how when you are prepping, you are trying to engage the hips to do the "scoop and pull" move to generate momentum? That's GREAT, but...and this is a big but, look where your hips are when you actually PULL. Your hips are up. You go dip, dip, dip, up, pull....rather than dip, dip, dip & pull. You pull at the TOP of the scoop, not the bottom, defeating the purpose.
It should look like one move, not yank, pull, swing, yank.
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DrBones
New member
I'm not trying to rag on you here... but..
Isn't your ass supposed to be a little lower to the ground creating more of an arch in your lower back? It looks a little rounded to me. Only reason I say that is because I have been talking to my chiropractor recently, (he's a big guy, 5'11 215 ripped), and he has been telling me to make sure I keep the arch in my back.. otherwise wear and tear over time will deterorate multiple vertabre in your back. I know this makes deads more difficult.. which is kind of the opposite of your goal of reaching 500...
But I'm only 21 and my lower back is great.. but some how or another I've managed to mess my middle-upper back(T3,T4, they are between your traps)... I have phase 2 subluxation, which is the beginning of arthritus. This means the jello like substance between my vertabre are deteriorating and the vertabre are able to smack into each other. I have bone fragments on these two vertabre from this.
Regardless of how strong your muscles are, this is still going to happen if your form isn't very good... its more of a wear and tear thing...
After going through all the injuries I've encountered over the last couple of years I just think its better to prevent something than it is to wait until it happened and wish you had been doing it that way all along..
If you disagree with me thats cool.. just thought I'd try to give some friendly advice from somebody who is already pretty out of whack from being uneducated.
Thanks
Ryan
Isn't your ass supposed to be a little lower to the ground creating more of an arch in your lower back? It looks a little rounded to me. Only reason I say that is because I have been talking to my chiropractor recently, (he's a big guy, 5'11 215 ripped), and he has been telling me to make sure I keep the arch in my back.. otherwise wear and tear over time will deterorate multiple vertabre in your back. I know this makes deads more difficult.. which is kind of the opposite of your goal of reaching 500...
But I'm only 21 and my lower back is great.. but some how or another I've managed to mess my middle-upper back(T3,T4, they are between your traps)... I have phase 2 subluxation, which is the beginning of arthritus. This means the jello like substance between my vertabre are deteriorating and the vertabre are able to smack into each other. I have bone fragments on these two vertabre from this.
Regardless of how strong your muscles are, this is still going to happen if your form isn't very good... its more of a wear and tear thing...
After going through all the injuries I've encountered over the last couple of years I just think its better to prevent something than it is to wait until it happened and wish you had been doing it that way all along..
If you disagree with me thats cool.. just thought I'd try to give some friendly advice from somebody who is already pretty out of whack from being uneducated.
Thanks
Ryan
Exactly...look how far down this lifter is when he pulls. He gets low and pulls back, not up:
http://www.joeskopec.com/633.mpg
http://www.joeskopec.com/633.mpg
Yes, I see a huge difference in my form and that of the lifter in the video you posted Spatts. I will definitely focus on keeping my hips down lower at the start of the lift next time, and lean way back with it. Dr. Bones, I will try to keep the back rounding issue in mind the next time I do deads. Thanks everyone. Any more suggestions on exercises to do to bring up my PR? Keep the comments coming.
CrimsonKing
New member
cripes.. didn't you read my reply. I said the same stuff!..
IMO.. focus on building your core strength and lifting technique. As Clint has told me before.. "patience bryan, patience!"
500# will come soon enough but don't push yourself crazy to make it in 5 weeks or something like that.. too agressive, too risky...
peace..
IMO.. focus on building your core strength and lifting technique. As Clint has told me before.. "patience bryan, patience!"
500# will come soon enough but don't push yourself crazy to make it in 5 weeks or something like that.. too agressive, too risky...
peace..
I personally think that lifter is overdoing it. You don't want your deadlift to look like a stiff legged deadlift. On the other hand, if you are pulling conventional I don't think you should squat the bar up. Sumo is a complete other issue. When you squat down that low you throw your knees forward so you wind up pulling the bar around them...not in a straight line.
http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/h551rbdl.mpg
My form is far from perfect, but it is decent. Would be easier to see if it was from the side....but notice how little my hips move vertically. I start with them as close to the bar as possible for better leverage. And as Spatts said it is important for it to be ONE movement....not two or three seperate movements.
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/194dead.html
Mistake #10: Starting with the hips too low
This is the king of all mistakes I see. Too many times lifters try to squat the weight up rather than pull the weight. Think back to the number of times you've seen a big deadlift and thought to yourself how much more the lifter could've pulled if he didn't damn near stiff-leg it. I see it all the time. Someone will say, "Did you see his deadlift?" Then the other guy will comment, "Yeah, and he stiff-legged the thing." Am I telling you to stiff leg all your deadlifts? No, not at all.
All I want you to do is look at your hip position at the start of the lift when you pull and watch how much your hips move up before the weight begins to break the floor. This is wasted movement and does nothing except wear you out before the pull. The closer you can keep your hips to the bar when you pull, the better the leverages are going to be.
Once again, next time you see a great deadlifter, stand off to the side and watch how close his or her hips stay to the bar throughout the pull. If you're putting your ass to the floor before you pull, your hips are about a mile from the bar. You're setting yourself up for disaster when the lever arm is this long. This is also the second reason why lifters can't get the bar off the floor. (The first reason is very simple: The bar is too heavy!)
You need to find the perfect spot where your hips are close to the bar, your shoulders are behind the bar, your lower back is arched, your upper back rounded, your belly full of air, and you can pull toward your body. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy, but then again, what is? (Definitely not training in a commercial health club….)
http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/h551rbdl.mpg
My form is far from perfect, but it is decent. Would be easier to see if it was from the side....but notice how little my hips move vertically. I start with them as close to the bar as possible for better leverage. And as Spatts said it is important for it to be ONE movement....not two or three seperate movements.
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/194dead.html
Mistake #10: Starting with the hips too low
This is the king of all mistakes I see. Too many times lifters try to squat the weight up rather than pull the weight. Think back to the number of times you've seen a big deadlift and thought to yourself how much more the lifter could've pulled if he didn't damn near stiff-leg it. I see it all the time. Someone will say, "Did you see his deadlift?" Then the other guy will comment, "Yeah, and he stiff-legged the thing." Am I telling you to stiff leg all your deadlifts? No, not at all.
All I want you to do is look at your hip position at the start of the lift when you pull and watch how much your hips move up before the weight begins to break the floor. This is wasted movement and does nothing except wear you out before the pull. The closer you can keep your hips to the bar when you pull, the better the leverages are going to be.
Once again, next time you see a great deadlifter, stand off to the side and watch how close his or her hips stay to the bar throughout the pull. If you're putting your ass to the floor before you pull, your hips are about a mile from the bar. You're setting yourself up for disaster when the lever arm is this long. This is also the second reason why lifters can't get the bar off the floor. (The first reason is very simple: The bar is too heavy!)
You need to find the perfect spot where your hips are close to the bar, your shoulders are behind the bar, your lower back is arched, your upper back rounded, your belly full of air, and you can pull toward your body. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy, but then again, what is? (Definitely not training in a commercial health club….)
My conventional is more like Hannibal's....not crouched down, and not stiff legged. A balance of hip and back force. I see conventional as like a GM and a dead put together, and a sumo like a squat and a dead together. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone but me. LOL
CK, I didn't mean to make you mad man. I don't think I looked over your post. I tried to answer your question of where my sticking point was, and I did take heed to your advice.
I am getting some confusion now. It seems some people say put the hips low, and others are saying that the hips shouldn't be so low. I still think mine need to be lower than what they have been though. If my arms only hung to my knees, I wouldn't have to worry about all this, .
I am getting some confusion now. It seems some people say put the hips low, and others are saying that the hips shouldn't be so low. I still think mine need to be lower than what they have been though. If my arms only hung to my knees, I wouldn't have to worry about all this,
.I definitely need to focus on core strength, be more solid in general. So, what are the best exercises to do this? I have already heard pull thrus, GM's, and box squats. I am not asking for variations of the deadlift, just other exercises that will build the deadlift. Oh, and I am fully aware I may not get 500 lbs. in 5 weeks. But hey, I figure why not shoot for the moon, cause if I shoot for 500, but only get 475, that is still a good gain.
Don't let Hannibal and I confuse you...we agree. The point is to USE your hips. Sometimes people have to change dead form based on their personal body structure. Long torso, short arms, etc...
Whether you are starting low, or in the middle (never high unless you can't do it any other way), the point is to thrust your hips forward. Your hips are the fulcrum, and you always want to keep the weight as close to the fulcrum as possible.
Whether you are starting low, or in the middle (never high unless you can't do it any other way), the point is to thrust your hips forward. Your hips are the fulcrum, and you always want to keep the weight as close to the fulcrum as possible.
T
The Shadow
Guest
bearrito said:Anyone else who trains WSB, Project or Cornholio maybe, or any others who train in other styles, are welcome to give advice. Like I said, ALL advice is welcome. Thanks guys, and girls
For me:
speed deads sometimes from a platforn
STRICT STRAIGHT BACK gms - Im talking 150 pounds or less
Pull thrus
these, for me, have had the best carryover for me....50 pounds in 5-6 weeks
bearrito said:
Well you already have the basic movements that will increase your deadlift. And you have gotten some great advice. A couple of moves that might push you over the top are: Dimel Deadlifts, CV Deadlifts, Pin Pulls and High Pulls.
Dimel Deadlifts are done with a conventional stance. Pull the bar to a standing position, then lower the bar to just below the knees and pull back to lockout. Concentrating on rotating the hips through...really "popping" them through. Your rep range should be relatively high with light weight. Considering your strength levels I would suggest 4 sets of 15-20 with 135-185.
CV Deadlifts are done using a low cable row. Get a "D" Handle and grip it with both hands. Lean away from the machine and use the weight to counterbalance you. You should feel as though if you dont concentrate on pulling back you will fall forward. This is what makes it so effective. Once against concentrate on rotating the hips through. And 4 sets of 15-20 is a good place to start.
Pin Pulls with the pins set just below your knees. Pulling heavy singles. The only disadvantage to these is they tend to put you in some akward positions. However, there still is some direct carry over.
And High Pulls are one more exercise that you might want to try. Using relatively heavy weights with the rep range or 3-5. You can do these with an overhand grip, or for variety you could use a snatch grip.
Hope it helps...
Wow, everyone has been very helpful. Thank you, to all of you. I think it's pretty obvious that I need to work on my core, and on my hips, and you all have given me several ways to do that. Also, thanks to everyone who gave me pointers on my form. I will keep posting on this thread with my progress. Thanks again everyone!
working towards goal
Well, I did event training today with B Fold, so I am very sore right now. Started out the session by doing some GMs though. I did set a PR on those. I worked up to 395 for 1 rep! That beats my old PR on GMs by 100 lbs. I did 295, I think it was, for 1 rep about 5 weeks ago, so I'm happy to have added 100 lbs. since then. I did some sets of speed deads right after the GMs, but only got up to 365 for one rep on those. A 500 lb. deadlift will happen....
Well, I did event training today with B Fold, so I am very sore right now. Started out the session by doing some GMs though. I did set a PR on those. I worked up to 395 for 1 rep! That beats my old PR on GMs by 100 lbs. I did 295, I think it was, for 1 rep about 5 weeks ago, so I'm happy to have added 100 lbs. since then. I did some sets of speed deads right after the GMs, but only got up to 365 for one rep on those. A 500 lb. deadlift will happen....
He set MANY pr's today
B True
B True
Yeah, I was surprised with a 100 lb. PR also. This was the first time I've done GMs since I did them 5 weeks ago, and 5 weeks ago was the first time I'd done them in about 3 years. B Fold has been doing something right with me I guess . Thanks for the encouragement Night Fly. Oh, on a side note, I also set a new PR on the Super Yoke. I got 530 lbs. for 50 feet. My previous PR with that was 440 for 50 feet. I really like this whole getting stronger thing, .
. Thanks for the encouragement Night Fly. Oh, on a side note, I also set a new PR on the Super Yoke. I got 530 lbs. for 50 feet. My previous PR with that was 440 for 50 feet. I really like this whole getting stronger thing, .
TheProject
New member
Wow, I want a 100lb PR! Nice work!
Ok, it's been a while since I've posted. I did work out with B Fold on Wednesday though. I did 6 sets of 2 with 249 on box squats with the green and purple bands on the bar. I also worked up to 375 for a single on speed deads while standing on a 4" box. I had a very narrow stance and that felt much better than having a wide stance on the deads. The box squats with 249 was a PR too, so I'm pretty pumped about that. I have 2 weeks to reach my 500 lb. deadlift. It may not happen, but I think my deadlift has definitely gone up nonetheless. Oh, and I had trouble with the lockout on the 375 deadlift. What do I need to do to work on a stronger lockout?
bearrito said:
Spatts/Hannibal/Project do something with bands that I think is for helping the lockout for deads. I can't remember what it's called, but I think they "hang" the bar by bands from the top of the cage. It makes the bottom portion of the lift easier but gets harder to closer to lockout you get.
Sorry I don't have more details. Maybe one of them will answer it for you.
Good luck goin' for 5 plates. I hope to hit 4 in a week or two.
Joker
I'm thinking that if you started making it to EVERY workout session and not just once a week...your deadlift might go up a bit faster 
B True
B True
JOKER47 said:
http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/h551rbdl.mpg
Reverse band deadlift...great for working the lockout.
