Get ready for $4.00 a gallon gas prices in the US.

[WODIN]

Gotta wonder what the real motivation of the Saudi's are because there isn't an over supply by anymeans.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentS...y&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420010822&p=1012571727088

 

[GoldenDelicious]

eh then youll just be in line with the rest of the world

 

[WODIN]

Lord I hope not. I usually buy my gas around 4:30 Am most of the time.

 

[Y_lifter]

As I watch those Monster SUV's fly down the road at maybe 10 MPG, I see that we
have brought this on ourselves partly..

I see used SUV's becoming a buyers market in the next couple years..

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

As I watch those Monster SUV's fly down the road at maybe 10 MPG, I see that we
have brought this on ourselves partly..

I see used SUV's becoming a buyers market in the next couple years..

Actually the federal government mandates the overall MPG for all cars made by a certain manufacturer. For every Excursion (or similiar) Ford sells, they sell a Focus (or similar) too...by law. (Those smaller cars typically go to rental fleets).

By the way, I'll give you $50 for your Hummer.


In other news, the rest of the world pays these prices due to tax imposition.

few things will outrage the American public more than outrageous gas prices and the consequent increased prices of everything else.

 

[jerkbox]

As I watch those Monster SUV's fly down the road at maybe 10 MPG, I see that we
have brought this on ourselves partly..

I see used SUV's becoming a buyers market in the next couple years..

i hate the whole SUV trend.....

there's no need for anyone to drive around in a Lincoln Navigator.....

 

[Silent Method]

i hate the whole SUV trend.....

there's no need for anyone to drive around in a Lincoln Navigator.....

There is no need for anyone to have more than 4 walls and a roof for their house either.

 

[RottenWillow]

i hate the whole SUV trend.....

there's no need for anyone to drive around in a Lincoln Navigator.....

God bless you!!!! I'm sick of all these boneheads in 6000 pound "SUVs". Or $35000 full size trucks that have never hauled anything heavier than a weeks groceries.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

God bless you!!!! I'm sick of all these boneheads in 6000 pound "SUVs". Or $35000 full size trucks that have never hauled anything heavier than a weeks groceries.

And those motherf**ckers with their big houses too. Who is going to put a stop to this?

 

[RottenWillow]

And those motherf**ckers with their big houses too. Who is going to put a stop to this?

Your irony is noted, but you missed my point.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Your irony is noted, but you missed my point.

I got your point, I have seen it many times...lived in GA for a while as well as LA before coming to Florida, see the 'pick-up truck posers' all over the place.

And I share some of your concern about SUV wielding boneheads; some lady backed into my Lexus IN A PARKING LOT while I was parked. I fear them.

Nevertheless I prefer to be able to drive whatever I damn well please. A fleet of H1s if I so desire.

 

[tiger88]

damn....my cAr sucks up gas like a mofo and she only takes premium

 

[velvett]

Your irony is noted, but you missed my point.

You're funny.
Cool.

 

[Whiskey]

I know that you can buy performance parts that both up you gas mileage and horsepower. So why don't manufacturers already do this to their vehicles??? It wouldn't fix the problem of low gas mileage, but it would help.

Whiskey

 

[RottenWillow]

Nevertheless I prefer to be able to drive whatever I damn well please. A fleet of H1s if I so desire.

I wouldnt suggest limiting your freedom to spend your money as you choose. However I'm exercising my right to raise hell about them.

I constantly find myself in traffic and I'm the only person who's actually...GASP!....in a car. Boxed in on all sides by giant four door trucks and SUVs. I might have to look 2-3 vechicles ahead of myself to find the next nearest car. Oh and for those who've never lived in Atl, you should know that all the new people who've moved here over the past 10 years or so think the speed limits are 80mph and above. Combine this with the locomotives they ALL insist on driving now and it scares the shit out of me to share the roads with them.

Massive tires means a lot of rubber. Rubber burns off tires in powder like form and gets deposited on the sides of our roads in hundred of tons worth polluting our soil. Big engines means more emissions. Smog in Atl has become a huge problem and is actually accelerating despite tightening emission controls. Too many single occupant vehicles combined with the proliferation of huge SUVS and trucks getting an average of 16-18 fricking miles to the gallon.

 

[jerkbox]

Nevertheless I prefer to be able to drive whatever I damn well please. A fleet of H1s if I so desire.

consumer marketing at it's best......everyone gotta have their Hummer or Navigator....because that's what the cool people have.....

it's a wasteful status symbol...pure decadence

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I wouldnt suggest limiting your freedom to spend your money as you choose. However I'm exercising my right to raise hell about them.

I constantly find myself in traffic and I'm the only person who's actually...GASP!....in a car. Boxed in on all sides by giant four door trucks and SUVs. I might have to look 2-3 vechicles ahead of myself to find the next nearest car. Oh and for those who've never lived in Atl, you should know that all the new people who've moved here over the past 10 years or so think the speed limits are 80mph and above. Combine this with the locomotives they ALL insist on driving now and it scares the shit out of me to share the roads with them.

Massive tires means a lot of rubber. Rubber burns off tires in powder like form and gets deposited on the sides of our roads in hundred of tons worth polluting our soil. Big engines means more emissions. Smog in Atl has become a huge problem and is actually accelerating despite tightening emission controls. Too many single occupant vehicles combined with the proliferation of huge SUVS and trucks getting an average of 16-18 fricking miles to the gallon.

I remember my time in Atlanta. I used to come down the highway where 75 and 85 merge at about 110 MPH in my little Saturn. Then I looked around and everyone was doing the same thing. I loved it.

I didn't love the traffic, and my speeds were often much lower because some incompetent bozo usually caused a wreck that slowed everything.

I remember one time on the six-lane portion of said highway, this black lady was driving like 20 MPH (not exaggerating) in the right lane. her head was sticking out the window, and she was waving to oncoming cars to 'let her in' as she continued to move left across the highway.

Ahhhh.....Atlanta

 

[jerkbox]

oh, and not to mention they are giant death traps.....

 

[beastboy]

You must hate me.....I drive a 35K truck....but I do haul stuff.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

consumer marketing at it's best......everyone gotta have their Hummer or Navigator....because that's what the cool people have.....

it's a wasteful status symbol...pure decadence

I have a Saturn, a Lexus and a Morgan.

I am as cool as it gets.

I just don't want you or Big Brother to give me any crap when I decide to roll out a fleet of 11 Hummers. (H1s only dog, H2s are geigh)

 

[Whiskey]

For those that think Linclons and Escalades are "a wastefull status symbol---jerkbox"

What is wrong with wanting something that is nice for yourself? Some people feel the best when they have a super green yard that looks perfect, which also means fertilizing and mowing it causing pollution. And then there are the poeple that feel good in a nice vehicle. Oh, and if a escalade ran into any one of todays car, who is gonna be in a death trap? It is easier for Firefighters to get someone out of a roomy suv than a compact car.

Whiskey

 

[velvett]

I love the flux of American SUV haters.

It keeps them from hating the BMW drivers.

So, HATE ON people.

Hate on.

 

[RottenWillow]

I remember my time in Atlanta. I used to come down the highway where 75 and 85 merge at about 110 MPH in my little Saturn.

Why thank you!


Our State Patrol sucks. They occasionally talk shit on the 11:00 news about "crack downs" on speeders. Bullshit. New people to Atl realize they can go that fast because "everybody else is doing it". Our police allow it to go on. If our state gov REALLY wanted to stop that kind of behavior in metro it could, but thus far it's only occasional smack talk for PR. I avoid interstate travel in metro 99% of the time.

The speeding wouldnt be such a problem provided that people 1) didnt ride each other's asses at 90 mph, 2) didnt change lanes without signalling. That's what gets people killed. It's not reallyt the speeding but generally just stupid, thoughtless, aggressive driving.

Dear God I'm not even 21 yet and I'm a better, more attentive driver than most of the people I see on our roads. Very troubling.

 

[jh1]

i hate the whole SUV trend.....

there's no need for anyone to drive around in a Lincoln Navigator.....

LOL WrxBOX..

Doesn't your car have a turbo on it?

Better trade it in on a Ford Aspire pronto to save on fossil fuels...

 

[Whiskey]

Laughing at Velvett!! In Newport, I noticed that it was the bmw drivers that drove the craziest. Zipping in and out of traffic. Especially those that had the 3 series. I don't know why though. I guess they were jealous that they couldn't afford a 7 series

Whiskey

 

[jerkbox]

LOL WrxBOX..

Doesn't your car have a turbo on it?

Better trade it in on a Ford Aspire pronto to save on fossil fuels...

my turbo gets 28 miles to the gallon in the city

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I love the flux of American SUV haters.

It keeps them from hating the BMW drivers.

So, HATE ON people.

Hate on.

You're safe from BMW hate where you live. It's a kid's car or third car on LI.

Venture to the southeast, though, and it;s a whole different equation.

 

[bluepeter]

For those that think Linclons and Escalades are "a wastefull status symbol---jerkbox"

What is wrong with wanting something that is nice for yourself? Some people feel the best when they have a super green yard that looks perfect, which also means fertilizing and mowing it causing pollution. And then there are the poeple that feel good in a nice vehicle. Oh, and if a escalade ran into any one of todays car, who is gonna be in a death trap? It is easier for Firefighters to get someone out of a roomy suv than a compact car.

Whiskey

It's wrong because it's more harmful to the environment than a smaller, more practical car. If you need to make a $$ statement with your car, buy a $100 000 BMW or Mercedes. At least you can drive more than 10 miles on a tank of gas.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

It's wrong because it's more harmful to the environment than a smaller, more practical car. If you need to make a $$ statement with your car, buy a $100 000 BMW or Mercedes. At least you can drive more than 10 miles on a tank of gas.

Here;s a better idea: take the idea that you can use some nebulous, dubious threat about the environment to control other people's behavior, and cram it directly up your tailpipe.

Big Brother already has strict controls on fleet MPG and what car makers can build.

Cow belches harm the environment more than cars.

Have a nice day.

 

[velvett]

Laughing at Velvett!! In Newport, I noticed that it was the bmw drivers that drove the craziest. Zipping in and out of traffic. Especially those that had the 3 series. I don't know why though. I guess they were jealous that they couldn't afford a 7 series

Whiskey

Yah, I've mellowed out a bit.
I was the craziest in my Calias quad 4 back in the 80's/early 90's - then again I was also young and stupid.

I don't think there's any jealousy about the 7 series though - it's a car for a different type of end user so that's a bad argument.

That said - I know a lot of asshole drivers, and some of them drive BMWs.

 

[The Shadow]

Gotta wonder what the real motivation of the Saudi's are because there isn't an over supply by anymeans.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentS...y&c=StoryFT&cid=1079420010822&p=1012571727088

No shit.....Im just glad Im picking up a bike next week

 

[RottenWillow]

Cow belches harm the environment more than cars.

Have a nice day.

yes there's a buttload (pun intended) of methane coming out of those ladies but that's only one pollutant. IC engines provide us with multiple niceties.



Nebulous and dubious? Matt I can SEE the affects of the increased pollution in Atlanta. I-20 East 9:00am every single morning.....that big, fricking haze over the entire downtown area wasnt nearly so thick 15 years ago. And the only time I EVER had any problems with my mild asthma is when I used to attend the "concrete campus" of GSU smack downtown, thanks to the stratospheric ozone concentrations.

 

[bluepeter]

Here;s a better idea: take the idea that you can use some nebulous, dubious threat about the environment to control other people's behavior, and cram it directly up your tailpipe.

Big Brother already has strict controls on fleet MPG and what car makers can build.

Cow belches harm the environment more than cars.

Have a nice day.

Come on Matt, that's bull

Regardless of what controls are in place, you're telling me it is not more environmentally conscious to own a smaller, yet expensive sedan than a gigantic SUV? Are you saying that the 10s of millions of these monstrosities on our roads aren't harmful to the environment? Come on. I respect someones right to own what the want but if it's the greater of 2 evils environmentally speaking and there is no need for it, then why?

 

[Becoming]

Come on Matt, that's bull

Regardless of what controls are in place, you're telling me it is not more environmentally conscious to own a smaller, yet expensive sedan than a gigantic SUV? Are you saying that the 10s of millions of these monstrosities on our roads aren't harmful to the environment? Come on. I respect someones right to own what the want but if it's the greater of 2 evils environmentally speaking and there is no need for it, then why?

you are right dude... yet shipping by semi (truck) continues to be prevalent... where there are way less stringent regulations on emissions (because they get pushed back) I read something where a huge portion of the emissions caused by road vehicles is caused by the trucks, and not passenger cars...

even worse is off-highway engines - they "contribute about 45 percent of the particulate matter from all mobile sources—equivalent to the emissions of more than 17 million new urban transit buses. These engines also release more than one-quarter of the smog-forming nitrogen oxides from all mobile sources—equal to the emissions of about 10.5 million new urban transit buses."

and what about public transportation? PHX is the 5th largest city in the US and has nothing that even resembles a functional public trans system....

so yeah you are right, it is all about the cars...




keep buying what they are selling dude...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Come on Matt, that's bull

Regardless of what controls are in place, you're telling me it is not more environmentally conscious to own a smaller, yet expensive sedan than a gigantic SUV? Are you saying that the 10s of millions of these monstrosities on our roads aren't harmful to the environment? Come on. I respect someones right to own what the want but if it's the greater of 2 evils environmentally speaking and there is no need for it, then why?

The issue of 'need' is not a good guideline by which to legislate or develop a society.

Do I 'need' a 6200 square foot house? How about 4 residences? Well, no, don't *need* them, but I can maintain them, so, why not?

Do I need a plasma TV? Nah.

Do I even need a 30 ounce steak for dinner? Nah. A chicken caesar salad would do just fine.

But do we want to disincentivize the mot productive members of society by saying they can only have what they *need*? (Assuming of course, *need* can be measured).

As to need for vehicles; the US government has a regulation in place whereby car makers must average a certain number of MPG on the cars they make.

This is why Ford manufactures the Expedition and the Focus, or why GM makes Suburbans and Saturns.

These guidelines continue to get stricter and stricter.

As an aside it would be amazing what happens if non-gasoline consuming cars were manufactured. One day....but I'd rather see it crushed by oil companies than forced by government.

 

[bluepeter]

you are right dude... yet shipping by semi (truck) continues to be prevalent... where there are way less stringent regulations on emissions (because they get pushed back) I read something where a huge portion of the emissions caused by road vehicles is caused by the trucks, and not passenger cars...

even worse is off-highway engines - they "contribute about 45 percent of the particulate matter from all mobile sources—equivalent to the emissions of more than 17 million new urban transit buses. These engines also release more than one-quarter of the smog-forming nitrogen oxides from all mobile sources—equal to the emissions of about 10.5 million new urban transit buses."

and what about public transportation? PHX is the 5th largest city in the US and has nothing that even resembles a functional public trans system....

so yeah you are right, it is all about the cars...




keep buying what they are selling dude...

What the fuck are you talking about? Who said it's all about the cars? Obviously there are a million other things we are doing that fuck up the environment (thanks for enlightening me) but are you denying that passenger vehicles play a part, whatever size of a part that is? That is the only point I made so I don't need to here your sarcastic bullshit rhetoric that isn't anything to do with what I said

 

[jerkbox]

As an aside it would be amazing what happens if non-gasoline consuming cars were manufactured. One day....but I'd rather see it crushed by oil companies than forced by government.

well....either way, eventually we are going to have to face the reality that the oil is eventually gonna run out, and/or we are going to poisen the crap out of our planet......

i think that places it a little bit above some individual freedoms and the livelyhood of the oil companies in my book....

 

[bluepeter]

well....either way, eventually we are going to have to face the reality that the oil is eventually gonna run out, and/or we are going to poisen the crap out of our planet......

i think that places it a little bit above some individual freedoms and the livelyhood of the oil companies in my book....

Bingo

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

well....either way, eventually we are going to have to face the reality that the oil is eventually gonna run out, and/or we are going to poisen the crap out of our planet......

i think that places it a little bit above some individual freedoms and the livelyhood of the oil companies in my book....[/QUOTE

If *the market* puts oil companies out of business, that's fine. If the government does it, it's wrong.

As for freedoms, you wanna give yours up? Go for it. But not me bro, no f**kin way I want some bureaucrat deciding what I can drive.

Make your statement driving a Prius, not complaining about my car.

 

[bluepeter]

well....either way, eventually we are going to have to face the reality that the oil is eventually gonna run out, and/or we are going to poisen the crap out of our planet......

i think that places it a little bit above some individual freedoms and the livelyhood of the oil companies in my book....[/QUOTE

If *the market* puts oil companies out of business, that's fine. If the government does it, it's wrong.

As for freedoms, you wanna give yours up? Go for it. But not me bro, no f**kin way I want some bureaucrat deciding what I can drive.

Make your statement driving a Prius, not complaining about my car.

Here's a question for you Matt. I tend to agree with your statement you don't want the government telling you what to drive or forcing the oil companies out of business. However, do you not think they should be putting some heavy financing behind those trying to find cheaper, more efficient and enviro friendly alternatives? (I personally would argue that the technology is already possible but the oil companies are in bed with so many partners that they are holding back the advancements but I digress)

and would that not be akin to the government indirectly forcing the oil companies out of business anyway? Now we know this is unlikely to happen for many reasons including my digression above but the point is it should

 

[jerkbox]

government already does tell you what you can drive......emissions standards, state inspections......hell in some states you can get a ticket for putting an after market air intake or muffler on your car.....it's no different really.

 

[Becoming]

are you denying that passenger vehicles play a part, whatever size of a part that is? That is the only point I made so I don't need to here your sarcastic bullshit rhetoric that isn't anything to do with what I said

Nice tone... my point is this - lots of improvements are already being made while other areas lag seriously behind... maybe looking at these other areas might be more effective than squeezing every last drop out of what is already being worked on...

of course the consumer auto concern is probably the only one you are prepared to argue- get your tree hugger cliff notes for april early did we....?

 

[Becoming]

However, do you not think they should be putting some heavy financing behind those trying to find cheaper, more efficient and enviro friendly alternatives? (I personally would argue that the technology is already possible but the oil companies are in bed with so many partners that they are holding back the advancements but I digress)

so then since it is so possible, why doesn't canada and the canadian govt bring some of these technologies to market?

go buy a prius dude... they already exist... no one is stopping everyone from buying one... they are there when people want them

 

[bluepeter]

so then since it is so possible, why doesn't canada and the canadian govt bring some of these technologies to market?

go buy a prius dude... they already exist... no one is stopping everyone from buying one... they are there when people want them

Again, who said that the Canadian government wasn't as lax in this area as any other? Who mentioned a specific government at all American boy? This discussion obviously (to anyone that can read) isn't limited to one country or government.

As for looking at other areas that need serious improvement, again, where did I state that this should not occur. Again, this is obvious. That doesn't mean that we can't make vast improvements in the area being discussed as well

 

[jerkbox]

can't we all just get along?

 

[HumorMe]

As I watch those Monster SUV's fly down the road at maybe 10 MPG,..

My Suburban might get 10 mpg but it holds 42 gallons so I just kind of fill up once a month.

 

[Becoming]

As for looking at other areas that need serious improvement, again, where did I state that this should not occur. Again, this is obvious. That doesn't mean that we can't make vast improvements in the area being discussed as well

dude you have a serious attitude problem...

again- buy a prius if it bothers you so much.... but I assume you don't have one, correct? - it is awefully nice you expect everyone else to make consessions to improve things you have not already taken maximum steps to improve yourself....

 

[tiger88]

so then since it is so possible, why doesn't canada and the canadian govt bring some of these technologies to market?

canada is a total joke


they need a good ass kicking

canada hasnt done shit in any form of tech improvements over the last 50 years

canada = worthless

 

[Becoming]

canada hasnt done shit in any form of tech improvements over the last 50 years

dude you bust out knowledge at such strange moments.... but it is a good thing

 

[bluepeter]

dude you have a serious attitude problem...

again- buy a prius if it bothers you so much.... but I assume you don't have one, correct? - it is awefully nice you expect everyone else to make consessions to improve things you have not already taken maximum steps to improve yourself....

I don't have a Prius because I'm nearly 6'6" and 230 pounds and am claustrophobic. If they develop a fuel cell or equivalent car for the larger gentleman, I'll buy it. As for doing my part, I don't drive a monstrous SUV and do drive a very fuel efficient Honda Civic. I have also sent numerous letters to my government representative over the past several years encouraging the ratification of Kyoto and urging our government to do more to advance things such as fuel cell technology. I have a summer house that I live in 6 months of the year that has solar panel technology and a fully functional windmill amongst other things. I can run the entire household pretty much 'off the grid' given the right conditions.

Don't tell me about doing my part.

 

[Becoming]

I don't have a Prius because I'm nearly 6'6" and 230 pounds and am claustrophobic. If they develop a fuel cell or equivalent car for the larger gentleman, I'll buy it. As for doing my part, I don't drive a monstrous SUV and do drive a very fuel efficient Honda Civic. I have also sent numerous letters to my government representative over the past several years encouraging the ratification of Kyoto and urging our government to do more to advance things such as fuel cell technology. I have a summer house that I live in 6 months of the year that has solar panel technology and a fully functional windmill amongst other things. I can run the entire household pretty much 'off the grid' given the right conditions.

Don't tell me about doing my part.

dude that is pretty good I have to give you props for that...quite environmentally conscious... you could really lose the high and mighty attitude tho, it might make people more receptive to your arguments...

"However, do you not think they should be putting some heavy financing behind those trying to find cheaper, more efficient and enviro friendly alternatives? (I personally would argue that the technology is already possible but the oil companies are in bed with so many partners that they are holding back the advancements but I digress)"

trying to stay on specific target to you topic....

If the technology that exists was so much better than we have- I find it hard to believe that it could not surface SOMEWHERE..... especially now when people are freaking out... they could make a gold mine...

If you come up with some kind of incentive program, people will take advantage of it to buy cheap cars, not to use them... Arizona tried to give incentives for people who bought alternative fuel cars - it turned into one of the biggest fiascos ever and almost bankrupted the state (not that AZ is run by anyone with any intellegence) funny cause it was almost all businesses that used it, not consumers....

and where should the money for this financing come from?

 

[atlantabiolab]

I have also sent numerous letters to my government representative over the past several years encouraging the ratification of Kyoto and urging our government to do more to advance things such as fuel cell technology.

You must really hate the lifestyle you currently have. Kyoto would do wonders at producing crushing costs on numerous goods and services, in effect hurting the poorest of society. When the costs of energy increases, the costs of shipping increases, the costs of finished goods increases, the poorest members of society can thank you for the clean air they have as they sleep under bridges and overpasses. Ever think past the minutia of "pristine environments"?

I have a summer house that I live in 6 months of the year that has solar panel technology and a fully functional windmill amongst other things. I can run the entire household pretty much 'off the grid' given the right conditions.

Don't tell me about doing my part.

I respect that, only because you did it yourself. After this, I have no respect for one who wishes to impose his ideals of higher costs of living for environmentalism. And there is no "part" that you are doing; you are not an ant. A nation, save those centrally planned, consists of individuals cooperating for their own self-interests, not working for one common goal.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Here's a question for you Matt. I tend to agree with your statement you don't want the government telling you what to drive or forcing the oil companies out of business. However, do you not think they should be putting some heavy financing behind those trying to find cheaper, more efficient and enviro friendly alternatives? (I personally would argue that the technology is already possible but the oil companies are in bed with so many partners that they are holding back the advancements but I digress)

Why on earth would companies NOT want to discover viable alternative fuels?? Do you really think that because we don't have them, that this is proof that they are being suppressed?? Eco-socialist countries have not produced shit in regards to alternative fuels, yet they control their markets heavily; what precludes them from bringing such "suppressed" ideas to fruition?

 

[RottenWillow]

And there is no "part" that you are doing; you are not an ant. A nation, save those centrally planned, consists of individuals cooperating for their own self-interests, not working for one common goal.

And this is not a statement of fact but rather your opinion.

Quite a lot of people make selfless contributions to society for the benefit of the whole.

And one example to back up my general statement. Recycling for instance me doing my part. Personally, I dont feel it economically or ecologically if I recycle or not. I do it to help other human beings, those alive now and those yet to be born.

 

[Gambino]

It is amazing what this $4 gallon of gas shit will do. The effects of this (in usa) are economically far reaching. This could put the hurt on the states in a major way...I agree that second hand SUV's will be a good buy in the future...

 

[atlantabiolab]

And this is not a statement of fact but rather your opinion.

Actually, this is a matter of fact.

Quite a lot of people make selfless contributions to society for the benefit of the whole.

And one example to back up my general statement. Recycling for instance me doing my part. Personally, I dont feel it economically or ecologically if I recycle or not. I do it to help other human beings, those alive now and those yet to be born.

This has demonstrated only that YOU and others desire to act this way and derive pleasure (self-interest) from this act. There is nothing "self-less" about this act, for you believe that you are doing "good" which provides you with a sense of "well-being". If it did not, you would not perform this act.

When you make the claim that you "do your part" you imply that there is a collective plan that all, or most, follow, which is not correct. In planned societies, such as the old Soviet Union, China and Cuba, this is correct, for all functions of society are organized for an 'end'.

 

[BO-DEN]

damn....my cAr sucks up gas like a mofo and she only takes premium

<--i got a caddilac the fucker only gets 17 mpg

 

[buddy28]

My father made a pretty good point several years ago suggesting OPEC cuts production when the US and its allies endorse or enforce policy detrimental to Muslim Arabs and Palestinians. They're just getting us back.

We invade Iraq so they crank up oil prices.

Of course there’s a lot more to it. But the principle idea is that OPEC's production quotas are often arrived at using more than just "official" demand/supply forecast analysis. They're paying us back for the unwanted influence the US is projecting, and planning to project in the region.


The real question is, why isn't Bush doing something about it? Bush should be leaning on key member OPEC states to crank up production. Not only would this give a big push to the faltering economic recovery, but boost his reelection chances in the process. IMO, Bushs inaction represents more of a perpetual gratuity care of John Q. Public to his backers in big oil, than a earnest inability to do anything about it.

 

[BO-DEN]

i would vote for bush if gas was .98 again

 

[samoth]

Sooo big cars are harmful to the environment... and they are not fuel-efficient compared to smaller vehicles... and they are a status symbol... and... ad naseum.

Okay, let's say they impose a limit to civilian vehicle size. Who would draw the line? Where would the line be drawn? Would a car getting 11 mpg not be allowed for manufacture whilst a similar car getting 12 mpg be found crowding everyday roads? What about vehicles used for companies and businesses?

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see how they can put a limit on what people drive. Realistically speaking, of course.

Those of you who are anti-SUV: what do you suggest? How do we control the situation? Is it resonable or realistic?

In the long run... will it make a difference how large or fuel-efficient cars were in the early twenty-first century?

 

[atlantabiolab]

My father made a pretty good point several years ago suggesting OPEC cuts production when the US and its allies endorse or enforce policy detrimental to Muslim Arabs and Palestinians. They're just getting us back.

We invade Iraq so they crank up oil prices.

Of course there’s a lot more to it. But the principle idea is that OPEC's production quotas are often arrived at using more than just "official" demand/supply forecast analysis. They're paying us back for the unwanted influence the US is projecting, and planning to project in the region.


The real question is, why isn't Bush doing something about it? Bush should be leaning on key member OPEC states to crank up production. Not only would this give a big push to the faltering economic recovery, but boost his reelection chances in the process. IMO, Bushs inaction represents more of a perpetual gratuity care of John Q. Public to his backers in big oil, than a earnest inability to do anything about it.

Bush could do inact certain measures that would assist with this problem, such as reduce or eliminate certain Federal taxes which constitute a significant percent of the cost of gas. State officials are also complicit with regulations which ensure higher than needed prices:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv23n3/brannon.pdf

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

As I watch those Monster SUV's fly down the road at maybe 10 MPG, I see that we
have brought this on ourselves partly..

I see used SUV's becoming a buyers market in the next couple years..

You know that all the compact cars in the world are using more gas than all the suvs in the world, because there are more of them? And no, the excuse that "if there were as many suvs as compact cars there would be even more pollution", isn't viable. There would be a better chance of it raining every day of the year before that would happen. I don't understand why everyone blames suvs. What about big trucks, sports cars, delivery trucks, etc? They use even more gas. My jeep gets close to 20 mpg highway.

 

[Razorguns]

I don't understand why we just don't all send a check to Saudi Arabia every month, and bypass the middle man? Kinda like a monthly Arab tax for US Citizens?

 

[buddy28]

Bush could do inact certain measures that would assist with this problem, such as reduce or eliminate certain Federal taxes which constitute a significant percent of the cost of gas. State officials are also complicit with regulations which ensure higher than needed prices:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv23n3/brannon.pdf

Good point. Could it be also a case of Government unwillingness to relinquish a coveted revenue source? Of course.

 

[bluepeter]

dude that is pretty good I have to give you props for that...quite environmentally conscious... you could really lose the high and mighty attitude tho, it might make people more receptive to your arguments...


trying to stay on specific target to you topic....

If the technology that exists was so much better than we have- I find it hard to believe that it could not surface SOMEWHERE..... especially now when people are freaking out... they could make a gold mine...

If you come up with some kind of incentive program, people will take advantage of it to buy cheap cars, not to use them... Arizona tried to give incentives for people who bought alternative fuel cars - it turned into one of the biggest fiascos ever and almost bankrupted the state (not that AZ is run by anyone with any intellegence) funny cause it was almost all businesses that used it, not consumers....

and where should the money for this financing come from?

Bro, I"m going back and reading our various posts and I don't even think we necessarily disagree! In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that I would like to see more government funding towards a cleaner solution (fuel cell technology or whatever), I'm not saying that all these huge SUV's should be legislated out or anything, just that they aren't necessary and I don't see why people drive them. I don't think you would disagree with that.

Bioboy, I am not 'imposing' my ideals on anyone. I am offering my opinion on the matter and responded to a comment by someone else that made the misguided statement that I should put my money where my mouth is. I am not an environmentalist zealot who thinks that everyone must do what I do, go ahead and live your life how you want. I am doing my 'part' as an individual and using what little means I have to prod my government into adopting some cleaner, more efficient technologies for the collective whole. This offends you how?

 

[XBiker]

I wouldnt suggest limiting your freedom to spend your money as you choose. However I'm exercising my right to raise hell about them.

I constantly find myself in traffic and I'm the only person who's actually...GASP!....in a car. Boxed in on all sides by giant four door trucks and SUVs. I might have to look 2-3 vechicles ahead of myself to find the next nearest car. Oh and for those who've never lived in Atl, you should know that all the new people who've moved here over the past 10 years or so think the speed limits are 80mph and above. Combine this with the locomotives they ALL insist on driving now and it scares the shit out of me to share the roads with them.

Massive tires means a lot of rubber. Rubber burns off tires in powder like form and gets deposited on the sides of our roads in hundred of tons worth polluting our soil. Big engines means more emissions. Smog in Atl has become a huge problem and is actually accelerating despite tightening emission controls. Too many single occupant vehicles combined with the proliferation of huge SUVS and trucks getting an average of 16-18 fricking miles to the gallon.

I gotta huge black jack oak in my front yard.

It needs a hug, bad.

Come right on over.

 

[FreeballinDC]

Lord I hope not. I usually pass gas around 4:30 Am most of the time.

Don't we all.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I don't understand why we just don't all send a check to Saudi Arabia every month, and bypass the middle man? Kinda like a monthly Arab tax for US Citizens?

That is the best post you have made EVER.

Much of our oil comes from other sources however.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Bioboy, I am not 'imposing' my ideals on anyone.

But you are when you do the following:

I am doing my 'part' as an individual and using what little means I have to prod my government into adopting some cleaner, more efficient technologies for the collective whole.

This offends you how?

It offends me in that you "think" you are not imposing your ideals on others, when in actuality your "prodding" of government to create new environmental legislation does this very thing. Government legislation IMPOSES standards on human action and this can have good and bad effects. In your drive to get Kyoto enacted, you failed to think of the consequences of this treaty on the daily cost of living; instead you focused only on the idea of a "clean environment".

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

government into adopting some cleaner, more efficient technologies for the collective whole. This offends you how?

As soon as you say 'for the collective whole' you are imposing!

The collective whole has no rights, individuals have rights and the collective whole is merely individuals who all have rights.

Acting 'for the whole' means you are superseding individual rights BY DEFINITION.

Take your socialism and love for the whole elsewhere.

 

[Y_lifter]

anya.. Should we meet up down at the Bus Stop tommorow morning ?

 

[bluepeter]

As soon as you say 'for the collective whole' you are imposing!

The collective whole has no rights, individuals have rights and the collective whole is merely individuals who all have rights.

Acting 'for the whole' means you are superseding individual rights BY DEFINITION.

Take your socialism and love for the whole elsewhere.

I consider the source when reading bioboy's response but by reading yours I know I'm likely wording it slightly incorrectly. I do not wish to 'impose' my wishes/beliefs about environmental responsibility on other individuals. What I do presume to do is try and prod my government to be more environmentally responsible as an entity unto themselves. I don't pretend to be an expert on where or how this would happen but when I see an alternative that is clearly better than the status quo, I will endorse it

 

[Becoming]

I do not wish to 'impose' my wishes/beliefs about environmental responsibility on other individuals. What I do presume to do is try and prod my government to be more environmentally responsible as an entity unto themselves. I don't pretend to be an expert on where or how this would happen but when I see an alternative that is clearly better than the status quo, I will endorse it

I do understand where you are coming from though I think I feel quite differently in terms of action...

the last thing I want is the government mandating some kind of action or rules that will cost me money and result in a half-assed job on the issue... Government is too slow and too inefficient... take vehicles as we said- though cars are quite improved from previous (but I will grant you could still be much better) not only do we pay more for this (as the companies pass on the cost of things they are required to comply with), but also the government has almost totally ignored other trucks, ships, machinery etc types, which are a much bigger part of the equation (and have much more room for improvement)

I feel it would be much more effective to increase your own personal support of companies that are taking steps in the right direction... (as you have been) and voice the virtues of those products to others who have potential to listen... in that way you are not only encouraging further technological advances and the companies which make them (which the govt does not do) but also supporting the spread of such technology...

I know it seems like it is a less effective approach- but I think you would get closer to where you would like to be and get more support from others than legislation would in the long run.... (think about the psychology diff between "you must" vs "you can"

 

[bluepeter]

I do understand where you are coming from though I think I feel quite differently in terms of action...

the last thing I want is the government mandating some kind of action or rules that will cost me money and result in a half-assed job on the issue... Government is too slow and too inefficient... take vehicles as we said- though cars are quite improved from previous (but I will grant you could still be much better) not only do we pay more for this (as the companies pass on the cost of things they are required to comply with), but also the government has almost totally ignored other trucks, ships, machinery etc types, which are a much bigger part of the equation (and have much more room for improvement)

I feel it would be much more effective to increase your own personal support of companies that are taking steps in the right direction... (as you have been) and voice the virtues of those products to others who have potential to listen... in that way you are not only encouraging further technological advances and the companies which make them (which the govt does not do) but also supporting the spread of such technology...

I know it seems like it is a less effective approach- but I think you would get closer to where you would like to be and get more support from others than legislation would in the long run.... (think about the psychology diff between "you must" vs "you can"

Well put. I do agree that government is generally the last one on the bandwagon so to speak and I do support companies that are taking steps. The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

 

[Testosterone boy]

My father made a pretty good point several years ago suggesting OPEC cuts production when the US and its allies endorse or enforce policy detrimental to Muslim Arabs and Palestinians. They're just getting us back.

We invade Iraq so they crank up oil prices.

Of course there’s a lot more to it. But the principle idea is that OPEC's production quotas are often arrived at using more than just "official" demand/supply forecast analysis. They're paying us back for the unwanted influence the US is projecting, and planning to project in the region.


The real question is, why isn't Bush doing something about it? Bush should be leaning on key member OPEC states to crank up production. Not only would this give a big push to the faltering economic recovery, but boost his reelection chances in the process. IMO, Bushs inaction represents more of a perpetual gratuity care of John Q. Public to his backers in big oil, than a earnest inability to do anything about it.

A by product of earning hatred and mistrust is that your "leanings" get ignored......at best.

 

[Becoming]

The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

Yeah but they always f something up - because too many middle men have their ear... look at what I was saying about how arizona tried to do that... it blew up in their face, almost bankrupted the state, and we have to pay for it now (although I think the state govt in AZ is dumber than most)...

the government would try some half-assed way to force something in instead of letting it happen through innovation of current ideas... and the price will be too high, and it will be inefficient and everyone will hate it...

I am all for improvements- as long as I don't have to pay for them through more taxes, AND if I am allowed to still drive a well-maintained 5.0L mustang when I like from time to time....

 

[Testosterone boy]

i would vote for bush if gas was .98 again

Do us all a favor and drop your poltical interests.

 

[buddy28]

A by product of earning hatred and mistrust is that your "leanings" get ignored......at best.

debatable. Everyone has their price.

 

[Becoming]

canada is a total joke

they need a good ass kicking

canada hasnt done shit in any form of tech improvements over the last 50 years

canada = worthless

sorry just had to post this pic to accompany the above....

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Well put. I do agree that government is generally the last one on the bandwagon so to speak and I do support companies that are taking steps. The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

While this is true, government funding is most effective when it does not interfere with the lives of everyday citizens.

The space program would have been impossible without the government. From that we have gptten many technical breakthroughs. But there was no competing space program, no private sector to be legislated against or controlled, and no citizen use of space.

Likewise the military. Not surprisingly, the military and space programs have led us to many of the inventions that we take for granted. (Internet, cell phone, rockets etc).

When the government does things that ONLY the government can do, then
the advantage of a massive funding source is maximized. When the government gets involved where the private sector already is, the creativity and ingenuity of the prviate sector is limited by top-down heavy handedness.

 

[b fold the truth]

My Suburban might get 10 mpg but it holds 42 gallons so I just kind of fill up once a month.

My Suburban gets 15mpg and holds 42 gallons. What year is yours?

Mine is a 1995 1500. I've got 183,000 miles on it

B True

 

[canadianhitman]

In defense of big SUVs, those of us that live in very snowy parts of North America and have hockey equipment to haul pretty much need them.

 

[canadianhitman]

I'm surprised that the US government hasn't thrown the braintrust onto getting hydrogen-powered cars to the point where people actually want them as much as regular cars (low-end torque). It would be worth however many billions...or even a trillion...to make it work. They could recoup a chunk of the cost by selling the license to use the technology to american carmakers. They would then be able to license it worldwide, and sit back and laugh as the Arabs tried to figure out how to eat their oil, as they wouldn't have money to have everything else brought into their shitty desert lands.

 

[bluepeter]

canada is a total joke


they need a good ass kicking

canada hasnt done shit in any form of tech improvements over the last 50 years

canada = worthless

I just saw this, can't believe I almost let you get away with that assnozzle. A few examples of Canadian inventions in the past 50 years or so of many hundred to give an idea of how much bullshit you are spewing in this post:

Analytical Plotter (3-D map making)
Anti-Gravity Suit
Automatic Postal Sorter
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electron Microscope
Film Colourization
Pacemaker
IMAX movie system
JAVA
Prosthetic Hand
Silicon Chip Blood Analyzer
Tone to Pulse Converter
UV Degradable Plastics
Walkie Talkie
The Canadarm for The Space Shuttle

etc. etc. etc.

booyah



P.S. - found one that I didn't know either. The electric light bulb was invented by Henry Woodward (not Thomas Edison!), a Canadian, in 1874. He sold the patent to Edison.

 

[bluepeter]

I just saw this, can't believe I almost let you get away with that assnozzle. A few examples of Canadian inventions in the past 50 years or so of many hundred to give an idea of how much bullshit you are spewing in this post:

Analytical Plotter (3-D map making)
Anti-Gravity Suit
Automatic Postal Sorter
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electron Microscope
Film Colourization
Pacemaker
IMAX movie system
JAVA
Prosthetic Hand
Silicon Chip Blood Analyzer
Tone to Pulse Converter
UV Degradable Plastics
Walkie Talkie
The Canadarm for The Space Shuttle

etc. etc. etc.

booyah



P.S. - found one that I didn't know either. The electric light bulb was invented by Henry Woodward (not Thomas Edison!), a Canadian, in 1874. He sold the patent to Edison.

A few of our recent Nobel Prize winners in the Sciences:

Bertram Brockhouse - 1994 - Physics
Michael Smith - 1993 - Chemistry
Rudolph Marcus - 1992 - Chemistry
Richard Taylor - 1990 - Physics
Sydney Altman - 1989 - Chemistry
Henry Taub - 1983 - Chemistry
Arthur Schawlow - 1981 - Physics
David Hubel - 1981 - Medicine

What were you saying again fucknuts?

 

[Becoming]

I took some exception to some of these, see below...

I just saw this, can't believe I almost let you get away with that assnozzle. A few examples of Canadian inventions in the past 50 years or so of many hundred to give an idea of how much bullshit you are spewing in this post:

Anti-Gravity Suit how does this work, or are you talking about a full body cast
Automatic Postal Sorter USPS most inefficient in the biz
Bone Marrow Compatibility Test
Electron Microscope
Film Colourization really, we would be better off without this
Pacemaker great, now Arizona is crowded with old people
IMAX movie system thanks for making me nauseous
JAVA
Prosthetic Hand so you don't get a cramp whacking off
Silicon Chip Blood Analyzer
Tone to Pulse Converter
UV Degradable Plastics
Walkie Talkie
The Canadarm for The Space Shuttle
Snow really, just because you have a lot of it doesnt mean you invented it
Reindeer c'mon, ever heard of evolution, darwin?
Elves everyone knows Santa invented them and he is from the north pole
Donuts so then fat cops and Bigdawg are your fault?

etc. etc. etc.

booyah



P.S. - found one that I didn't know either. The electric light bulb was invented by Henry Woodward (not Thomas Edison!), a Canadian, in 1874. He sold the patent to Edison.

 

[bluepeter]

I took some exception to some of these, see below...

Funny guy, you got my point

 

[Whiskey]

instead of spending millions on trying to improve gas mileage, "even though we'll run out someday" why not spend those millions to kill most of the termites!?!

A little FYI for you guys, Termites are the source of most of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. What about cows? They are resposible for most of the methane around as well.

Even though I may not sound it, I am for improving gas mileage. I agree with canadianhitman about the hydrogen powered cars. They just need to find a way to make them safe.

Whiskey

 

[HumorMe]

My Suburban gets 15mpg and holds 42 gallons. What year is yours?

Mine is a 1995 1500. I've got 183,000 miles on it

B True

I actually have two of them. My 1994 gets 10 mpg. It has 112,000 miles on it but I also just installed a brand new engine in it about 6 months ago. A Chevy 350 and it still just gets 10 mpg. I can't figure that out.

I have a 2002 Suburban also but it gets better gas mileage. One to go on trips and the other to just beat around town in, go hunting, fishing, golfing, etc.

Wife has a convertible Chrysler Sebring that holds about 12-13 gallons. We'll drive that most of the summer though.

 

[Testosterone boy]

My Suburban gets 15mpg and holds 42 gallons. What year is yours?

Mine is a 1995 1500. I've got 183,000 miles on it

B True

She's almost broken in. My Ford truck has 229,xxx. It has been such a great truck that I hope to hit 300,xxx with her.

I have lots of money pits, expensive cars is not one of them.


HumorMe........you should do better than 10. See a cracker jack mechanic bro.

 

[HumorMe]

She's almost broken in. My Ford truck has 229,xxx. It has been such a great truck that I hope to hit 300,xxx with her.

I have lots of money pits, expensive cars is not one of them.


HumorMe........you should do better than 10. See a cracker jack mechanic bro.

Yea, I need to go get it checked out.

I was driving the 1994 today and I had to go to the bank to make a deposit and as I was sitting at the drive-thru, I noticed that it was missing or skipping. I could watch the rpm tachometer and it would dip down a bit and of course I could feel it also.

So, it must have a fouled spark plug or something. I have a 3 year warranty on the new engine so I really need to take it in.

 

[b fold the truth]

I actually have two of them. My 1994 gets 10 mpg. It has 112,000 miles on it but I also just installed a brand new engine in it about 6 months ago. A Chevy 350 and it still just gets 10 mpg. I can't figure that out.

I have a 2002 Suburban also but it gets better gas mileage. One to go on trips and the other to just beat around town in, go hunting, fishing, golfing, etc.

Wife has a convertible Chrysler Sebring that holds about 12-13 gallons. We'll drive that most of the summer though.

Hmmm...that IS strange. What kind of hp are you looking at with the newer engine? My 1995 has 200 I do believe and the newer ones usually get better because they have more hp (and probably many more things too). I sure would LOVE a new Suburban.

Is there a huge difference between the 2002 and the 1994? Drive different? Power? etc...? I could never afford a new one but I sure do love mine.

I also drive a 1991 (or is it a 92?) Geo Metro Convertable that gets around 30-35mpg. I love driving it.

Testosterone boy: I hope that you are correct. My truck isn't perfect but when I'm looking at a new one...I'm glad that mine is paid for in 2 months. Buying a new car is A LOT more expensive than paying for $4 a gallon gas...that is for dang sure. Heck...in 2 months my $400 a month truck payment will be gone and that would buy me 100 gallons of gas IF it goes up to $4 a gallon...PER MONTH. 100 gallons would take me like 1,500 miles

B True