Frack....why do you think that 9/11 was "sponsored" internally???

[Testosterone boy]

You tend to educate yourself before stating beliefs so I'm truly interested in your rational.

My belief system would be incomprehensibly challenged if I thought our own government plotted that. I could not imagine a state of happiness with such a belief.

 

[spongebob]

do we have to go thru this again. he will simply cite many websites and then say, "because they had to have known".

 

[Testosterone boy]

do we have to go thru this again. he will simply cite many websites and then say, "because they had to have known".

Sorry I missed all previous explanations by frack. I can dismiss beliefs from other posters as so much paranoia but frack is pretty even in my experience.

I listened to Cheney speak late last year, he meets with Bush every morning. He said that Bush says "we're going to get him" every day......referring to OBL. I had the impression that he had reservations about W's conversational dexterity.


I wonder what the cabinet and admin think of Bush. He seems to be in over his head and basically following orders to me. Considering though....he is coping pretty well. Some leaders would have "frozen up" by now.

 

[spongebob]

i was just kidding...

honestly, if you agree with the war on terrorism and war with iraq i sure as hell wouldnt have wanted gore and his cabinet in there. im telling you, bush has little man's syndrome and he has the mighty military to back him up.

 

[Testosterone boy]

i was just kidding...

honestly, if you agree with the war on terrorism and war with iraq i sure as hell wouldnt have wanted gore and his cabinet in there. im telling you, bush has little man's syndrome and he has the mighty military to back him up.

The Bush family performs well with war, there is no doubt.


This situation is so complex and the information is so debatable that I have difficulty forming strong opinions. Of course I'm agreeable with a war on terrorism but terrorism is a Saudi problem.

 

[KAYNE]

HOW CAN SOMEONE THINK THAT 9/11 MANIFESTED WITHIN OUR OWN GOVT???




KAYNE

 

[SUST-MAN]

Guys...i'll tell you how

I dont know if we did or didnt.

Think globaly. The muslim population is growing at an unbelieveable rate. 900 churches have recently converted to mosques in europe.

Now, if the US sits back....in 50 years, the muslim population will be enourmous. Aside from numbers and political power, they will also have weapons. The US has made war very expensive so that only they can afford to fight in one....but now, with chem\bio weapons being improved and perfected, the price of war is back down to a financial level that any country can afford.

Now, we would never have gotten any support to invade iraq if it were not for 9/11. The public would have never supported it. We were too interested in our own lives.

If they knew about 9/11.....and prevented it.....in 50 years, we could have been challenged by the muslims.

Allowing it to happen, enraged the public....and they thought that we could get worldwinde support to invade iraq (the first of many wars against muslim countries)

If you read my recent posts, you'll noticed that i have mentioned two government reports. "A project for a New American Century" & "Rebuilding Americas Defences"

PNAC written by Wolfowitz, cheney, rumsfeld, pearle, kagen, etc was written in the 90's. It was about the importance of dominating the mid east to preserve PAX AMERICANA (peace in america)

Wolfowitz has been trying to attack iraq for years but has been unable to convince the presidents of the past.

9/11 gave us the will to attack the mid east, and establish dominance in the region.

Here....is your motive.

I know its sick and difficult to believe....but remember that power and money corrupts everyone to no limits. And people controling the most powerful and richest country in the world....are the most vulnerable.

 

[rushx79]

the jews and coloreds.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Interesting thoughts SM.

I can't offer other opinions because I am still trying to figure out what the hell is going on. This has all been incredibly bizarre.

 

[Frackal]

T-boy, I'll respond in length later.

I do not 'think' that it was, ie, conclusively believe so, but I entertain it as a strong possibility... the skeptics here, KAYNE, supernav, etc...their mentality is stale and narrow IMO.

I think it would be foolish to completely dismiss this possibility when you review historically how many wars were started, and take into account motives, the ensuing coverup, and the massive amount of unanswered questions.

The total potential picture is perhaps beyond the scope of this post, and I tire of the likes of supernav and friends, but I will give an outline as to why I think this MAY be the case later on tonight. (just got home from work)

Also spongebob, you often cite websites yourself for information. Check your karma.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

HOW CAN SOMEONE THINK THAT 9/11 MANIFESTED WITHIN OUR OWN GOVT???




KAYNE

question everything

 

[Sigmund Roid]

It has been known in 1995 already, that the fire protecting layers on the support rods were not put on properly, and that a relatively small fire would cause the collapse of the whole building. Was it intention, that nothing has been done against it, to plan the collapse of the twin towers?

 

[Baby Gorilla]

Even more so....

I don't worry how much the "government" did or did not know. It's clear some powerful people knew 9/11 was going to happen, and I assure you that they are proffiting BIG TIME off the war.

Why were only 3,000 (more or less) killed on 9/11 when the attack happened when something like 10,000+ should have been in the buildings? Why the sudden mass failure of people to come to work on that day? It wasn't a 3-day weekend.

 

[spongebob]

Also spongebob, you often cite websites yourself for information. Check your karma.

take it easy bro, i said i was just kidding.

if you wanna debate wether or not our govt was behind it then i will be happy to. please bring facts and a sensible hypothesis. i just get real tired of people saying it was our govt and when asked why you get a response like the one above from SUST-MAN. gimme a break, that would be laughed right out of any court. "i think they knew because they dont want the arab population to get to strong". see how rediculous thats sounds.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Hey sponge....

First thing i said was...

I DONT KNOW IF WE DID IT OR NOT

I have no idea if we knew or didnt know. All i am offering is one theory. One thing is certain. You cannot dispute the facts that i have stated about the Bush Admin has been vyuing for a war against iraq to establish dominance in the mid east for over 10 years.

This is undisputable.

YOu also have to admit, that 9/11 gave them a reason to begin it.....And without it, we could have never gotten support for this war.

Having said that....cant we atleast ask the question?

 

[FreakMonster]

The fact is that 9-11 could have been easily prevented. Why did our gov't repeatedly ignore warning of the Twin Tower Attacks and why were FBI agents constantly told not to pursue suspected terrorists? We even had a Muslim agent refuse to wear a wire tap on a suspected terrorist. All this leads me to believe that there were some corrupt people within our gov't with an agenda.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Freak.....i dont think they wanted to prevent it. Heck Maybe this goes deeper than expected. Maybe clinton was put into power to weaken our millitary and CIA to entice terrorism and infact....encourage it.

This falls right inline with the entire plot. Let the terrorists come in.....so that we can begin these wars and dominate the mid east.

Again....this is ALL speculation....

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Re: Even more so....

I don't worry how much the "government" did or did not know. It's clear some powerful people knew 9/11 was going to happen, and I assure you that they are proffiting BIG TIME off the war.

Why were only 3,000 (more or less) killed on 9/11 when the attack happened when something like 10,000+ should have been in the buildings? Why the sudden mass failure of people to come to work on that day? It wasn't a 3-day weekend.

I heard the buildings held close to 40,000 packed. You have to figure since the first plane hit before 9AM....most people on their way to work either decided not to go in, were stuck in traffic jams, were stuck waiting on stopped subways or were outside watching the fireworks.

The biggest buildings in NYC were just hit, so those on their way into the building stayed outside to watch. Meanwhile those inside started running out. With all those offices in the building you have people constantly running in and out at all times of the day. Theres a good chance that half of those people didnt even make it to the office on that day at that time....as any other.

 

[ariolanine]

Re: Even more so....

I don't worry how much the "government" did or did not know. It's clear some powerful people knew 9/11 was going to happen, and I assure you that they are proffiting BIG TIME off the war.

Why were only 3,000 (more or less) killed on 9/11 when the attack happened when something like 10,000+ should have been in the buildings? Why the sudden mass failure of people to come to work on that day? It wasn't a 3-day weekend.

Stupid muslims fault. If they had waited one more hour there would have ben 20k+ people in those towers.

 

[The Shadow]

....imo that attack, was not meant to be directed at human life - it was to strike at out financial institutions....

 

[ariolanine]

The fact is that 9-11 could have been easily prevented. Why did our gov't repeatedly ignore warning of the Twin Tower Attacks and why were FBI agents constantly told not to pursue suspected terrorists? We even had a Muslim agent refuse to wear a wire tap on a suspected terrorist. All this leads me to believe that there were some corrupt people within our gov't with an agenda.

You've answered your own question. Our gov't isn't allowed to racially profile people.

 

[ariolanine]

Hey sponge....

First thing i said was...

I DONT KNOW IF WE DID IT OR NOT

I have no idea if we knew or didnt know. All i am offering is one theory. One thing is certain. You cannot dispute the facts that i have stated about the Bush Admin has been vyuing for a war against iraq to establish dominance in the mid east for over 10 years.

This is undisputable.

YOu also have to admit, that 9/11 gave them a reason to begin it.....And without it, we could have never gotten support for this war.

Having said that....cant we atleast ask the question?

Why do so many people think this. Getting support from the American people was easy. Nobody cares if Saddam has ties to Al-Queda.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Why do so many people think this. Getting support from the American people was easy. Nobody cares if Saddam has ties to Al-Queda.

You have been breathing some thin air bro. No way we could have rolled into Baghdad without 9/11. The suspected Saddam ties to terrorism was also necassary to motivate the troops.

 

[The Shadow]

...the huge murals on the walls depicting 9/11 in the Republican Guard hq didnt help their cause

 

[ariolanine]

You have been breathing some thin air bro. No way we could have rolled into Baghdad without 9/11. The suspected Saddam ties to terrorism was also necassary to motivate the troops.

Umm... what? Maybe in your neck of the wood or amongst your friends. Telling troops they are getting a chance to kill is motivation enough. Yes, alluding to 9/11 helped but there is no evidence that Saddam had anything to do with it. The Pres could have alluded to many any other terrorist acts to get people fired up.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Its not the troops that need motivation....

Its the public opinion. And before you say that it doesnt matter.....its what wins elections and keeps these people in power.

Even with 9/11, people are still anti-war.....some for the right, and some for the wrong reasons.

The Bush admin thought that the world would support them in their drive to baghdad riding on the wings of 9/11

Seems like they miscalculated. Other countries dont give a shit about iraq.....they just dont want the US to become even more powerful.

 

[FreakMonster]

You've answered your own question. Our gov't isn't allowed to racially profile people.

Huh? How is this racial profiling?

 

[SUST-MAN]

i hate how politically correct we all have to be.

 

[ariolanine]

Huh? How is this racial profiling?

The fact is that 9-11 could have been easily prevented.

Yes by racially profiling.

Why did our gov't repeatedly ignore warning of the Twin Tower Attacks and why were FBI agents constantly told not to pursue suspected terrorists?.

Because terrorists are muslims, usually arab muslims. They are not allowed to racially profile people.

We even had a Muslim agent refuse to wear a wire tap on a suspected terrorist. All this leads me to believe that there were some corrupt people within our gov't with an agenda.

Yes they are known as liberals.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Yes its true.....there are many corrupt liberals in the US government.

But lets not be ignorant. Tell me that there are no corrupt Republicans....

Actually....tell that ALL politicians are not corrupt.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!

 

[FreakMonster]

Yes by racially profiling.

Absolute bullshit. We did not have to racially profile to prevent 9-11. There were many warnings and leads that were not investigated further and were told to leave alone.

Because terrorists are muslims, usually arab muslims. They are not allowed to racially profile people.

Bullshit!!! We investigate a muslim because he is a suspected terrorist not on the basis of his ethinicty you moron!!!

Yes they are known as liberals.

Wolfitz, Cheney, Tenet, and Mueller are not liberals.

 

[ariolanine]

Bullshit!!! We investigate a muslim because he is a suspected terrorist not on the basis of his ethinicty you moron!!!.

How do you find out he is a terrorist in the first place moron????To be proactive and look for terrorists you have to look for muslims, specifically arab muslims. I love you fucking leftist faggots. You get owned and then start name calling. How old are you? You people prefer us frisking 80 year old white women. I was answering your questions and then you post this bullshit and insult me? Fuck you!!

 

[ariolanine]

Frackal is such a bitch. Every time he gets called out he replies with "I'm gathering info, will post later" or something to that effect. Then he never does post later with his "response." He's posted more than twenty replies to other threads but still no "answers" on this one.

 

[ariolanine]

Yes its true.....there are many corrupt liberals in the US government.

But lets not be ignorant. Tell me that there are no corrupt Republicans....

Actually....tell that ALL politicians are not corrupt.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!

I agree except for the last statement. Republicans have clearly demonstrated themselves to be the lesser of two evils.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Lesser of two evils....

Well, I guess so. I agree with the Republicans almost 100% on all domestic issues.

I happen to disagree on their foreign policy this time....sort of.

The only problem is...The iraq issue is much more important than all the other domestic issues combined.

If we begin to attack arab countries...and we face daily terrorism in the US....then we will fall apart.

That evil is worse than the decision on wether abortion should be legal, or if we should get tax cuts.....dont you think?

 

[spongebob]

Hey sponge....

First thing i said was...

I DONT KNOW IF WE DID IT OR NOT

I have no idea if we knew or didnt know. All i am offering is one theory. One thing is certain. You cannot dispute the facts that i have stated about the Bush Admin has been vyuing for a war against iraq to establish dominance in the mid east for over 10 years.

This is undisputable.

YOu also have to admit, that 9/11 gave them a reason to begin it.....And without it, we could have never gotten support for this war.

Having said that....cant we atleast ask the question?

i disagree, i think bush could have and did garner enough support on two notions. one being saddam has WMD and the other being the iraqi's needed to be liberated.

 

[Frackal]

Frackal is such a bitch. Every time he gets called out he replies with "I'm gathering info, will post later" or something to that effect. Then he never does post later with his "response." He's posted more than twenty replies to other threads but still no "answers" on this one.

- You were just whining about namecalling

- I wasn't called out

- It would take a book's worth to make a real case. I can try to paint an overall picture, but I'll do it when I feel like spending 30 min composing everything.

Also the only other time it took me awhile to do this, and the other time you bitched about it was on my thread to p0ink. I did respond, and still haven't had any response from p0ink or yourself.

Stop acting stupid.

 

[spongebob]

The fact is that 9-11 could have been easily prevented. Why did our gov't repeatedly ignore warning of the Twin Tower Attacks and why were FBI agents constantly told not to pursue suspected terrorists? We even had a Muslim agent refuse to wear a wire tap on a suspected terrorist. All this leads me to believe that there were some corrupt people within our gov't with an agenda.

can you clarify what you mean by "easily prevented"? ofcourse you must stay within the constraints that existed at the time of 9-11. a very undermanned intelligence community, a lack of human intelligence within other countries, govt restrictions not allowing as easily access to suspected terrorist, and an extremely poorly run immigration department, and standing procedures regarding possible hi-jack airliners, etc. etc.

again, simply asking questions does not imply guilt, if you take the time to find the answers then you might be able to confidently advance some sort of a coherent hypothesis.

 

[SUST-MAN]

i disagree, i think bush could have and did garner enough support on two notions. one being saddam has WMD and the other being the iraqi's needed to be liberated.

Before 9/11.....we were all very happy with the way things were. Maybe the economy was slipping....but we were content.

If bush had said....LETS GO INTO IRAQ! We would have been like..KEEP YOUR MIND ON THE ECONOMY.

Saddam had done nothing to us for 12 years. If your looking to go after countries that violate UN resolutions....the list is endless. If your looking to go after countries that harm or kill their own people....the list is endless....

We had no reason to go into iraq before 9/11......and as far as i'm concerned, Bush has not made a valid argument on why we are there now.

And about the WMD.....everyone has it. THe paki's have it...and they have more bin laden supporters....why not go after them?

 

[FreakMonster]

How do you find out he is a terrorist in the first place moron????To be proactive and look for terrorists you have to look for muslims, specifically arab muslims. I love you fucking leftist faggots. You get owned and then start name calling. How old are you? You people prefer us frisking 80 year old white women. I was answering your questions and then you post this bullshit and insult me? Fuck you!!

Listen dumbass!!! I'm talking about suspects who had direct ties to Al-Queda which the FBI had solid info on that they were told to back off on the investigation. I'm not talking about random muslims here. Pull your head out of your ass!!!!!!

 

[ariolanine]

Listen dumbass!!! I'm talking about suspects who had direct ties to Al-Queda which the FBI had solid info on that they were told to back off on the investigation. I'm not talking about random muslims here. Pull your head out of your ass!!!!!!

Nice urban legend. You are one surly faggot...

 

[FreakMonster]

can you clarify what you mean by "easily prevented"? ofcourse you must stay within the constraints that existed at the time of 9-11. a very undermanned intelligence community, a lack of human intelligence within other countries, govt restrictions not allowing as easily access to suspected terrorist, and an extremely poorly run immigration department, and standing procedures regarding possible hi-jack airliners, etc. etc.

again, simply asking questions does not imply guilt, if you take the time to find the answers then you might be able to confidently advance some sort of a coherent hypothesis.

Listen,
I'm not the only one that says that 9-11 could have been prevented. There are many lawmakers, FBI Agents, and CIA agents who are saying the SAME EXACT THING!!!

For example Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa. said "Sept. 11 might well have been prevented," "What are they doing now to prevent another 9/11?"

Law Makers Slam FBI Anti-Terror Effort:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79600,00.html

There were many warnings about an attack but somehow the FBI and CIA could not stop the biggest attack on US soil. Pretty fucking pathetic for an Intelligence Agency which is supposed to be one of the best in the world.

 

[FreakMonster]

Nice urban legend. You are one surly faggot...

Ya urban legend my ass. You really need to shut up before I make you look really stupid.


Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

That doesn't look like an URBAN LEGEND to me!!!!!!!

People are not THAT stupid, except some people like you. More and more people each day are getting very tired of all this and undergoing rapid change in their formerly closely held beliefs. They don't trust the government. They know the government is lying, they sense very strongly that the government is the one behind the September 11th attacks. They are being propagandized to at a level never before seen. And their anger is building. And there are indications here and there that the secret government's neatly constructed plot is fraying at the edges. There's too many stories out there for them to manage and ALL of them seem like they can unravel at a moments notice.

Sure Bin Laden's men are carrying out the strikes but make no mistake about it, someone here, left the door open a little too wide for a thinking person to believe it was a mistake

And they're going to do it again.
It’s just too obvious to avoid. We should all be talking about it, shouting it out from the rooftops, writing letters to our congressman (or tying them to rocks and throwing them through their windows.) Our future’s at stake. And the City of New York is at stake. And the lives of Americans is at stake. It is clear in our analysis that there are too many corollaries and similarities to ignore that point directly to military intelligence involvement in the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There are too many facts swirling around these suspicious events that bear the hallmarks of a planned military intelligence style operation.

 

[FreakMonster]

And here's another disturbing story for you non believers not only did this FBI Agent not get fired but he fucking got promoted!!

Far from being reprimanded, Abdel-Hafiz was promoted to one of the FBI's most important anti-terrorism posts, the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia, to handle investigations for the FBI in that Muslim country.

I guess Bill "no spin zone" O'Reilly thinks that the viewers are expecting too much of him if we think he should have at least tried to find out something about Yassin Al-Kadi [or Qadi] and Sami Al-Arian, which would give him a clue as to what's going on. In both cases, in particular in the Kadi case, any FBI agent, who knew something about the high political and intelligence connections involved, would know that they were expected to cover for them. By now O'Reilly should not be so naive as to think that either the Clinton or the Bush administration really operated on the basis that "no one is above the law." Their attitude is that if someone works for the CIA or is very politically useful to the administration, then the laws just don't apply in these cases. Amal Abdel Hafiz was looking for any excuse to avoid pursuing these cases. If it wasn't religion, he would have thought of another excuse, or simply reported it to one of the highups, and then Robert Wright would have been told to back off. This is why "FBI chief Robert Mueller threatened to fire him if he appeared on THE FACTOR."

Yassin Al-Kadi and Sami Al-Arian most likely do favors for the CIA or CIA "assets".
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80346,00.html

 

[ariolanine]

Ya urban legend my ass. You really need to shut up before I make you look really stupid.

I always welcome that challenge, especially from conspiracy theorists.

Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

You think it's because of an elaborate gov't conspiracty. I think it's because our PC gov't is afraid of being accused of racism. Which one do you REALLY think is more likely?

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

That doesn't look like an URBAN LEGEND to me!!!!!!!

Nor does it look like proof of a gov't conspiracy.

People are not THAT stupid, except some people like you. More and more people each day are getting very tired of all this and undergoing rapid change in their formerly closely held beliefs. They don't trust the government. They know the government is lying, they sense very strongly that the government is the one behind the September 11th attacks. They are being

In your world maybe. People who think with logic do not think the gov't is behind Sept. 11. I don't trust the gov't either but I guess I will be forever dumb in your eyes because I can distinguish fantasy from reality.

And there are indications here and there that the secret government's neatly constructed plot is fraying at the edges. There's too many stories out there for them to manage and ALL of them seem like they can unravel at a moments notice.

What website did you cut and paste that from? Sources please?

Sure Bin Laden's men are carrying out the strikes but make no mistake about it, someone here, left the door open a little too wide for a thinking person to believe it was a mistake

Yes, you can thank thirty years of liberal emasculating and immigration.

And they're going to do it again.
It’s just too obvious to avoid. We should all be talking about it, shouting it out from the rooftops, writing letters to our congressman (or tying them to rocks and throwing them through their windows.) Our future’s at stake. And the City of New York is at stake. And the lives of Americans is at stake.

So what your saying is that we should ignore the islamofascists and lock up the tri-lateral commission and the bilderburgers, right?

It is clear in our analysis that there are too many corollaries and similarities to ignore that point directly to military intelligence involvement in the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There are too many facts swirling around these suspicious events that bear the hallmarks of a planned military intelligence style operation.

Ok, you are clearly cutting and pasting. Some original thought please!!!

 

[ariolanine]

And here's another disturbing story for you non believers not only did this FBI Agent not get fired but he fucking got promoted!!

Far from being reprimanded, Abdel-Hafiz was promoted to one of the FBI's most important anti-terrorism posts, the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia, to handle investigations for the FBI in that Muslim country.

I guess Bill "no spin zone" O'Reilly thinks that the viewers are expecting too much of him if we think he should have at least tried to find out something about Yassin Al-Kadi [or Qadi] and Sami Al-Arian, which would give him a clue as to what's going on. In both cases, in particular in the Kadi case, any FBI agent, who knew something about the high political and intelligence connections involved, would know that they were expected to cover for them. By now O'Reilly should not be so naive as to think that either the Clinton or the Bush administration really operated on the basis that "no one is above the law." Their attitude is that if someone works for the CIA or is very politically useful to the administration, then the laws just don't apply in these cases. Amal Abdel Hafiz was looking for any excuse to avoid pursuing these cases. If it wasn't religion, he would have thought of another excuse, or simply reported it to one of the highups, and then Robert Wright would have been told to back off. This is why "FBI chief Robert Mueller threatened to fire him if he appeared on THE FACTOR."

Yassin Al-Kadi and Sami Al-Arian most likely do favors for the CIA or CIA "assets".
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80346,00.html

Dude, what are you doing? You are proving my point and disproving yours.

 

[ariolanine]

By the way, the last line in your sig is also an urban legend. The quote is taken from Bush's conversation with Bob Woodward in regard to his Cabinet meetings. It had nothing to do with Iraq.

 

[spongebob]

Listen,
I'm not the only one that says that 9-11 could have been prevented. There are many lawmakers, FBI Agents, and CIA agents who are saying the SAME EXACT THING!!!

For example Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa. said "Sept. 11 might well have been prevented," "What are they doing now to prevent another 9/11?"

Law Makers Slam FBI Anti-Terror Effort:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79600,00.html

There were many warnings about an attack but somehow the FBI and CIA could not stop the biggest attack on US soil. Pretty fucking pathetic for an Intelligence Agency which is supposed to be one of the best in the world.

1. freakmonster, yes everything could have been prevented hypothetically. thats a no-brainer! given the condition of the intelligence community and thier lack of financing and human intelligence abroad, standing procedures within the airlines industry, standing procedures within the US govt regarding hi-jacked airliners, and the highly incompetent immigration services it is extremely easy to pull off what bin laden did. given everything i just said i bet i could offer up 3 times as many people who all agree it could not have been prevented.

2. my opinion is that when arlen spector makes a comment like that, that he is referring to exactly what i am talking about, yes it could have been prevented if the proper tools were in plces. he is not implying that someone let it happen. he is referring to the breakdown within our intelligence community. so taking his qoute out of context and drawing a conclusion from it is rediculous.

3. TWC was not the first attack that showed a lack of actual intelligence gathering and not interpretating it sufficiently by our intelligence community. and who said they were the best in the world? you?

 

[Egresser]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only right winger here....Thx Ario, I agree with you 100%. As far as the government saying 9/11 could have been prevented, it's not meant to say that someone knew exactly what, where, when, and how. There was an earlier post saying that we (the US) would have never gotten support if it were not for 9/11......what support are you speaking of? The French, Germany, Russia, the GD UN....or the thousands of people who are antiwar but are insistant on adding to our deficit by conducting useless rallies. If you are one of those that thinks we should have given Saddam another 12 years to build up his chemical arsenal, aquire nuclear weapons to sell or use, continue to torture and kill people who can't stand up for themselves, and allow his son to continue to rape little girls, you are a sad being. Why are we in Iraq, because we finally have a President with balls who has decided that enough is enough. If you seriously think his intensions are based on being re-elected, your dumb. I proudly serve my country, and back our President 100%

 

[spongebob]

Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

That doesn't look like an URBAN LEGEND to me!!!!!!!

1. this was in the mid 90's when they were told that. are you suggesting that clinton's admin was in on it to???

 

[spongebob]

....imo that attack, was not meant to be directed at human life - it was to strike at out financial institutions....

yes to some extent, but that doesnt mean we should disregard or minimize other intentions of his terrorism. remember now, bin laden had declared a jihad on all US citizens in 97. he specifically said that in order for his objectives to be met he must bring his jihad to american soil. he knew that too many people were desensitized by the TV and were not understanding his motivation by previous attacks, the kobar towers and embassies in africa and the USS cole.

bin laden wants US troops and involvement out of saudi(the mecca land) and the middle east. he is a saudi national and was kick out for his radical views. IMO this reasons are for more important to him than the financial aspect of it.

 

[Sinistar]

i think america needs to stop being the worlds fucking police. its not our job to go out into the world and make everything nice and pretty. if the fucking Iraqis cant get a coup together after 30 years they need alot more than help, and from someone else.

and bush is a gutless little wimp. if he had some real balls, he wouldve went to veitnam instead of jumping into the national guard.

so yea bush is pro war, buts he too much of a fucking pantload to fight it himself.

 

[FreakMonster]

I always welcome that challenge, especially from conspiracy theorists.

What I have presented to you is FACT not conspiracy. If you can't see that I refuse to debate with you further as you seem to just want to argue with me for the sake of argueing.

You think it's because of an elaborate gov't conspiracty. I think it's because our PC gov't is afraid of being accused of racism. Which one do you REALLY think is more likely?

Afraid of being accused of racism? OMG Are you fucking kidding me? If that were the case then the FBI would not be interviewing thousands of Iraqi's here in the US.

Nor does it look like proof of a gov't conspiracy.

Conspiracy? Did you even read my link? It's fact!! If you think it's conspiracy then I really think your argueing with me for the sake of argueing. Here is the post in bold to make sure you can see it.
"September the 11th is a direct result of the incompetence of the FBI's International Terrorism Unit. No doubt about that. Absolutely no doubt about that," Wright said. "You can't know the things I know and not go public."

In the mid-1990s, with growing terrorism in the Middle East, the two Chicago-based agents were assigned to track a connection to Chicago, a suspected terrorist cell that would later lead them to a link with Osama bin Laden. Wright says that when he pressed for authorization to open a criminal investigation into the money trail, his supervisor stopped him.

"Do you know what his response was? 'I think it's just better to let sleeping dogs lie,'" said Wright. "Those dogs weren't sleeping. They were training. They were getting ready."

Now explain IN DETAIL how this is racial profiling and a conspiracy?

In your world maybe. People who think with logic do not think the gov't is behind Sept. 11. I don't trust the gov't either but I guess I will be forever dumb in your eyes because I can distinguish fantasy from reality.

I think your the one who is not thinking with logic. I have presented you with nothing but facts from FBI agents who admitted on National Telvision that their supervisor stopped them from opening investigations on suspected terrorist cells with links to Al-Queda. I think your the one living in a fantasy buddy!!!!

What website did you cut and paste that from? Sources please?

Website? It's common knowlege. Why don't you spend some time researching instead of spewing out crap from your mouth?

Yes, you can thank thirty years of liberal emasculating and immigration.

Wow we are blaming immigration now? LOL keep backtracking and telling yourself that.

 

[FreakMonster]

1. this was in the mid 90's when they were told that. are you suggesting that clinton's admin was in on it to???

No, I'm saying that this investigation could have lead to preventing 9-11. Why are you just looking for little things to pick apart when it's obviously right in front of your face. If your arguement is just that this investigation was in the mid 90's then lets look at a more recent letter from 2002 by Veteran FBI Agent Colleen Rowley to FBI Director Robert Mueller. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html

 

[FreakMonster]

Dude, what are you doing? You are proving my point and disproving yours.

LOL, you are just getting ridiclous!! Are you telling me that a Muslim agent refusing to investigate a fellow Muslim who is a terrorist is racial profiling?

 

[FreakMonster]

1. freakmonster, yes everything could have been prevented hypothetically. thats a no-brainer! given the condition of the intelligence community and thier lack of financing and human intelligence abroad, standing procedures within the airlines industry, standing procedures within the US govt regarding hi-jacked airliners, and the highly incompetent immigration services it is extremely easy to pull off what bin laden did. given everything i just said i bet i could offer up 3 times as many people who all agree it could not have been prevented.

Yes hypothetically everything could have been prevented but it is so obvious that national security and intelligence officials negligently mishandled counterterrorism operations. The above conditions that you gave could have been part of the incomptency of the intelligence agencies but a big part of that was also the CIA knowing in advance the activities of future hijackers. Tenet even testified this in 2002. Don't you think that if we would have followed through on all these investigations that 9-11 could have possibly been prevented?

2. my opinion is that when arlen spector makes a comment like that, that he is referring to exactly what i am talking about, yes it could have been prevented if the proper tools were in plces. he is not implying that someone let it happen. he is referring to the breakdown within our intelligence community. so taking his qoute out of context and drawing a conclusion from it is rediculous.

He is not referring to what your talking about. Did you even read the damn article? FBI headquarters thwarted Minneapolis agents seeking a FISA warrant to search Moussaoui's laptop computer and belongings before the attack. How is this a breakdown? LOL
And he is not the only person who has made similiar comments.

3. TWC was not the first attack that showed a lack of actual intelligence gathering and not interpretating it sufficiently by our intelligence community. and who said they were the best in the world? you?

So what's your point? We are talking about the prevention of 9-11 not other terrorist attacks.
It's well known we have one of the best intelligence agencies, I can't believe you would think otherwise.

 

[spongebob]

No, I'm saying that this investigation could have lead to preventing 9-11. Why are you just looking for little things to pick apart when it's obviously right in front of your face. If your arguement is just that this investigation was in the mid 90's then lets look at a more recent letter from 2002 by Veteran FBI Agent Colleen Rowley to FBI Director Robert Mueller. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html

well correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that you believed 9-11 was strickly tied to the bush admin. i was just asking if you thought clintons admin could have been involved. now are you saying that it was an intelligence conspiracy?

i am looking for little things to pick apart because thats what you do when you deconstruct an arguement. if you pick apart enough of the pieces then the conspiracy will be debunked.

just like the post you made earlier about arlen spector as to imply he meant someone let it happen. that simply wasnt the case.

as far as the rowley letter, i will read it later and reply. its late.

 

[FreakMonster]

well correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that you believed 9-11 was strickly tied to the bush admin. i was just asking if you thought clintons admin could have been involved. now are you saying that it was an intelligence conspiracy?

i am looking for little things to pick apart because thats what you do when you deconstruct an arguement. if you pick apart enough of the pieces then the conspiracy will be debunked.

just like the post you made earlier about arlen spector as to imply he meant someone let it happen. that simply wasnt the case.

as far as the rowley letter, i will read it later and reply. its late.

No I never pinned 9-11 on Bush. Mishandling of terrorist investigations have been going on since the Clinton Administration. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy. It was a mishandling, incompetency, obstruction, and failure to properly investigate terrorists directly linked to Al-Queda.

You try and pick apart my argument but you don't seem to be reading anything I post. Your arguements seem way off.

 

[spongebob]

The fact is that 9-11 could have been easily prevented. Why did our gov't repeatedly ignore warning of the Twin Tower Attacks and why were FBI agents constantly told not to pursue suspected terrorists? We even had a Muslim agent refuse to wear a wire tap on a suspected terrorist. All this leads me to believe that there were some corrupt people within our gov't with a agenda.

this sounds like you believe there was a conspiracy on some level.

 

[spongebob]

No I never pinned 9-11 on Bush. Mishandling of terrorist investigations have been going on since the Clinton Administration. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy. It was a mishandling, incompetency, obstruction, and failure to properly investigate terrorists directly linked to Al-Queda.

You try and pick apart my argument but you don't seem to be reading anything I post. Your arguements seem way off.

1. so you are saying it was a systematic failure and not at all a conspiracy at any level?

2.lol. you presented a qoute taken out of context by arlen spector and used it to bolster your arguement and at the same time apparently didnt read the entire article or failed to comprehend it in its entirety. i pointed it out and my arguements are way off?!? ok, whatever!

 

[FreakMonster]

this sounds like you believe there was a conspiracy on some level.

You read to much into things. Plus I thought you were going to bed! Time to get that rest so you can think properly.

 

[spongebob]

You read to much into things. Plus I thought you were going to bed! Time to get that rest so you can think properly.

goodmorning sweetie! i see your not even touching the arlen spector issue. keep back peddling you conspiracy nut!

 

[SUST-MAN]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only right winger here....Thx Ario, I agree with you 100%. As far as the government saying 9/11 could have been prevented, it's not meant to say that someone knew exactly what, where, when, and how. There was an earlier post saying that we (the US) would have never gotten support if it were not for 9/11......what support are you speaking of? The French, Germany, Russia, the GD UN....or the thousands of people who are antiwar but are insistant on adding to our deficit by conducting useless rallies. If you are one of those that thinks we should have given Saddam another 12 years to build up his chemical arsenal, aquire nuclear weapons to sell or use, continue to torture and kill people who can't stand up for themselves, and allow his son to continue to rape little girls, you are a sad being. Why are we in Iraq, because we finally have a President with balls who has decided that enough is enough. If you seriously think his intensions are based on being re-elected, your dumb. I proudly serve my country, and back our President 100%

Egressor, WHen i said that we would not get support....I meant that the Bush admin thought that after 9/11, (a) the American people would be 100% behind him (b) the other countries would support us in our fight against "TERROR".

The Admin saw this as a great opportunity, in fact, a "PEARL HARBOR-LIKE" opportunity to execute a plan that they have had for many years now....THE PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY"....written by all the Bush Admin Elites in the early 90's

 

[SUST-MAN]

well correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that you believed 9-11 was strickly tied to the bush admin. i was just asking if you thought clintons admin could have been involved. now are you saying that it was an intelligence conspiracy?

i am looking for little things to pick apart because thats what you do when you deconstruct an arguement. if you pick apart enough of the pieces then the conspiracy will be debunked.

just like the post you made earlier about arlen spector as to imply he meant someone let it happen. that simply wasnt the case.

as far as the rowley letter, i will read it later and reply. its late.

I was the one who linked the CLinton ADmin.....very loosly i might add. I have NO evidence behind that statement....it was just a thought. And i never said that i believe it either...but it could make sence.

For anyone who thinks that the US governement never has an alterior motive.....or never makes plans that go further than 4 years....WAKE UP

 

[SUST-MAN]

And you can all call us conspiracy theorists....and i dont mind that.

But you have to look deeper into stories than FOX NEWS!

Cmon....how often do we finally find out the true motives of government officials YEARS AND YEARS after the incident.

To say that we should just accept all our governments actions at face value is completely ignorant.

Look, Freak and I are not saying that WE KNOW FOR SURE that the Bush admin...or the Clinton Admin are behind anything. No one will know for sure for years....and maybe never.

But if you really look at the facts, you have to admit that the motive was always there (PNAC).....a major incident occured (9-11)......and Immediatly, the Bush Admin was speaking about invading Iraq (WHICH NO ONE CAN LINK WITH ALQAEDA)

In fact....The Bush admin has been humiliated by being cought lie after lie after lie trying to link irq & bin laden.

Just try to think here.....What corporation big wigs are not always greedy or money hungry....how often to they begin to stab more and more people in the back to gain more wealth and power.

THE US IS THE MOST POWERFUL AND RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!

 

[FreakMonster]

1. so you are saying it was a systematic failure and not at all a conspiracy at any level?

2.lol. you presented a qoute taken out of context by arlen spector and used it to bolster your arguement and at the same time apparently didnt read the entire article or failed to comprehend it in its entirety. i pointed it out and my arguements are way off?!? ok, whatever!

We are going to have to realize that we will never agree on arlen's comment. He stated 9-11 COULD have been prevented. What else do you want? I really don't understand where your stance on this issue is? Are you saying that we could not have prevented 9-11? All you seem to do is want to argue with me.

There is so much evidence out there that points to the incompetency of the FBI before 9-11 for example did you know that after Sept. 11 the panel on the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee Staff showed that investigators in the FBI office in New York, then the Bureau's antiterrorism center, received orders from Washington on August 29, 2001 to abort a criminal probe of the hijackers after NY agents learned that one of the terrorist suspects whose identity and intentions had been known to the CIA for 18 months had reentered the US on July 4?

There were at least 12 specific warnings to the FBI and CIA that Bin Laden was planning a major strike to the US. Why did they allow the attacks to happen with the information they were provided?
Why is the Bush Administration resisting an independent commission of inquiry with full subpoena power and the ability to question ranking American officials about the intelligence failure?
There are so many unanswered gaps in the existing record about the decision-making process at the top. It was these actions by decisionmakers that let 9-11 happen. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!

 

[SUST-MAN]

If you guys really want information about the incompetance of the CIA\FBI etc....Read "SEE NO EVIL"

Its about Robert Bear, a CIA agent that was deeply involved in the mid east.....and how they cut the legs out from under him during the clinton administration.

EXCELLENT BOOK!!!!!!!

 

[Testosterone boy]

You tend to educate yourself before stating beliefs so I'm truly interested in your rational.

My belief system would be incomprehensibly challenged if I thought our own government plotted that. I could not imagine a state of happiness with such a belief.

Well.....this thread is pretty big and Frackal remains dormant.

You never know what threads will take off!

 

[SUST-MAN]

I know i should have waited for Frack to answer the initial question....but i had to put in my 2 cents....

 

[ariolanine]

LOL, you are just getting ridiclous!! Are you telling me that a Muslim agent refusing to investigate a fellow Muslim who is a terrorist is racial profiling?

Absolutely not. I am telling you that the reason a muslim agent has the power to refuse that order and not be reprimanded is due to white guilt and the fear of being accused of racism. If it was a white agent then the shit would hit the fan. A muslim agent is untouchable. You know that.

 

[spongebob]

I was the one who linked the CLinton ADmin.....very loosly i might add. I have NO evidence behind that statement....it was just a thought. And i never said that i believe it either...but it could make sence.

you need to re-read all the post and then you will understand why i asked him about the clinton admin being involved. i was not confused thinking you said it.

i will try to explain it to you. freakmonster posted about two agents telling a story that they were told to "let sleeping dogs lay". he attached a link and when you read the entire article it clearly shows that they were told that during the time clinton was in office.

that is why i asked him that question.

no offense but please read all post and attached links carefully and comprehend what is going on, it is irritating to have to explain the fundalmentals.

 

[spongebob]

We are going to have to realize that we will never agree on arlen's comment. He stated 9-11 COULD have been prevented. What else do you want? I really don't understand where your stance on this issue is? Are you saying that we could not have prevented 9-11? All you seem to do is want to argue with me.

i already explained to you what i believed arlen spector's comment referred to.

look, if you believe that 9-11 was a systematic failure, meaning no conspiracy or hidden agenda by govt officials, then we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[spongebob]

Ya urban legend my ass. You really need to shut up before I make you look really stupid.


Two veteran FBI investigators say they were ordered to stop investigations into a suspected terror cell linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers021219.html

That doesn't look like an URBAN LEGEND to me!!!!!!!

People are not THAT stupid, except some people like you. More and more people each day are getting very tired of all this and undergoing rapid change in their formerly closely held beliefs. They don't trust the government. They know the govternment is lying, they sense very strongly that the government is the one behind the September 11th attacks. They are being propagandized to at a level never before seen. And their anger is building. And there are indications here and there that the secret government's neatly constructed plot is fraying at the edges. There's too many stories out there for them to manage and ALL of them seem like they can unravel at a moments notice.

Sure Bin Laden's men are carrying out the strikes but make no mistake about it, someone here, left the door open a little too wide for a thinking person to believe it was a mistake

And they're going to do it again.
It’s just too obvious to avoid. We should all be talking about it, shouting it out from the rooftops, writing letters to our congressman (or tying them to rocks and throwing them through their windows.) Our future’s at stake. And the City of New York is at stake. And the lives of Americans is at stake. It is clear in our analysis that there are too many corollaries and similarities to ignore that point directly to military intelligence involvement in the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There are too many facts swirling around these suspicious events that bear the hallmarks of a planned military intelligence style operation.

and your telling me that you didnt say it was a conspiracy??

im beginning to wonder if you are even human. i hope, no i pray that you are age 12.

 

[p0ink]

still haven't had any response from p0ink or yourself.

you never gave any reasons for opposing the war; you only gave one sentence responses to each of my reasons.

 

[Testosterone boy]

you never gave any reasons for opposing the war; you only gave one sentence responses to each of my reasons.

Well this is page 4 and that is more than I got out of him.

 

[Frackal]

Alright alright lol -

First poink, yes but the point of my "p0ink what are your reasons for this war" thread was to hear your reasons, dispute them if I disagreed, then listen to your responses....that's what I was interested in.

Now, 9/11:

This is so huge it would take weeks of research to compile anything truely in-depth, and it would take a book to do so.

However, I'll give you a few of my thoughts here, and try to summarize my (only somewhat tentative) beliefs, which have been formed over the year and a half since 9/11.


First, we look at history. Due to historical knowledge of the way past wars have been started, I would automatically question the instigating event for any war.

Here is an interesting and rather prophetic article about wars started under false pretenses, written before 9/11.

The history:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/index.html

(has a hearty round of Clinton-bashing for you neocons on here)



- NOT in America you say? There's no way OUR government would KILL fellow Americans to push an agenda?

Review Operation Northwoods*. A plan hatched by the Pentagon to kill Americans by running black ops in the US committing terrorist acts:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html



- MOTIVE , the key to any crime. The motives are numerous and obvious, I don't think they have to be delved into deeply here, but I'll briefly review, IMO, some of the motivations for this:

- PNAC idealism/Globalisation www.newamericancentury.org

- Israeli Interests

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

(Fox News Story and others)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

- Oil (come on, we all know it's a factor. Anyone notice in his War speech Bush mentioned not burning oil wells BEFORE saying not to use WMD?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/business/programmes/moneyprogramme/archive/oil.shtml



These are some of the prime reasons for this action IMO. WMD doesn't fall on this list. And freeing the Iraqi people DEFINITELY doesn't fall on the top list.

I think as stated in an interesting article I read the other day, if Bush was really concerned with WMD proliferation, he'd send more money to Russia to help secure those poorly secured nuke sites.




Evidence of Criminal Foreknowledge:

This can get pretty complicated, and would be the core of a truly succint report. I'll include a few interesting tidbits.

CIA Linked Investors Insider Trading Leaves Serious Questions About Government Foreknowledge:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/illegaltrades.html

Large Archive of other newslinks detailing Govt. foreknowledge:

http://www.infowars.com/resources.html#PRIOR_CIA

The Coverup:

If there was nothing to hide, such efforts to keep hidden would not be made.

This too could be a booklength piece, but as promise I'll include a few tidbits of information that I think relevant, for more you'll have to delve further yourself, or I can post more later.

Freak has already presented some Clinton negligence.

We (should) all know that Bush and Bin Ladens go way back as business partners, Senior and Junior. That in itself should raise STRONG QUESTIONS. We are supposed to believe that OBL is a black sheep and the rest of the Saudi Bin Ladens are not like this? Yet the FBI was investigating 2 other Bin Ladens pre-9/11?

- The current family that heads our country has direct and continued links to the current family of the man responsible for the single largest attack on our country in history.

I find this extremely disturbing in and of itself. The associations obviously exist.

Prior Knowledge Article Compliation:

Master Secret Keeper Kissinger Resigns from 9/11 Investigation Panel Amid Controversy. Bush reluctant for independent investigation

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/

http://www.infowars.com/resources.html#BUSH

-----


I think this is enough to get started. I hope the partisan ponies don't get all upset because I'm ripping on Bush as well as Clinton. This partisan warring/distraction is a major downfall to our (and other) country.

But I digress.

Basically here is my logic:



- Many other wars have been started by false pretext -

- This Event has been used to start what will likely be a Series of Wars. Wars that have been planned years in advance.

- 9/11 is a myriad of unanswered questions and mysteries. Everything from Euro reports of our top FBI guy resigning in disgust and his investigations being stymied by the Amin to reports that I happened across on the radio tonight of military being ordered not to launch intercept craft no matter what on 9/11.

So we have a pre-planned massive agenda. We have an initiation event, surrounded in mystery. We have a coverup, and strong proof of foreknowledge.

This is enough, in light of everything else going on, all the lies, past and present, all I've read, for me to say that I believe that this is a strong possibility.

Hope I have given a brief outline of my thoughts that is helpful T-boy. My opinion is that 9/11 may have been a Black-Operation.

 

[collegiateLifter]

if it is really true that the steel beams were removed from WTC reckage before being examined as evidence, then i find that highly suspect. not sure how to verify that through more conventional media though. good post frack.

 

[FreakMonster]

and your telling me that you didnt say it was a conspiracy??

im beginning to wonder if you are even human. i hope, no i pray that you are age 12.

Either way you cut it there was a reckless disregard for the known dangers before September 11th!!! The warnings were there and they were not investigated thoroughly. How how hard is that to understand?

 

[FreakMonster]

Absolutely not. I am telling you that the reason a muslim agent has the power to refuse that order and not be reprimanded is due to white guilt and the fear of being accused of racism. If it was a white agent then the shit would hit the fan. A muslim agent is untouchable. You know that.

WHITE GUILT? On who's part? He was given a fucking order to do HIS JOB by wearing a wire to investigate another muslim and he refused because he said it was against his religion to do so. His superior was not afraid of being accused a racism. PLEASE. His superior knew these terrorists were assets. This was a plain cover up. Did you know the two Muslims that the FBI Agent was supposed to investigate are terrorists? Kadi is suspected of financing Osama bin Laden. He is on the U.S. government's "dirty dozen" list of leading terror financiers being investigated by the CIA.
The other guy he was investigating Sami Al-Arian, the Florida university professor was finally indicted for funneling money to an array of Mideast terror groups.

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE COVER UP HERE?

 

[spongebob]

Either way you cut it there was a reckless disregard for the known dangers before September 11th!!! The warnings were there and they were not investigated thoroughly. How how hard is that to understand?

i have always said it was a systematic failure involving the intelligence community, the FFA, the immigration services, etc.

what you seem to imply is that there was intentional disregard with a govt. agenda to provoke interest in the US going to war to establish control over mid east oil. that sounds like a conspiracy to me.

do you understand the difference between the two?

 

[FreakMonster]

i have always said it was a systematic failure involving the intelligence community, the FFA, the immigration services, etc.

what you seem to imply is that there was intentional disregard with a govt. agenda to provoke interest in the US going to war to establish control over mid east oil. that sounds like a conspiracy to me.

do you understand the difference between the two?

I'm saying there WAS an intentional disregard to thorougly investigate warnings and terrorist cells or those in connection with Al-Queda. As to what their SPECIFIC AGENDA was one can only speculate!!!

As Colleen Rowly said, "I have deep concerns that a delicate and subtle shading/skewing of facts by you and others at the highest levels of FBI management has occurred and is occurring. The term "cover up" would be too strong a characterization which is why I am attempting to carefully (and perhaps over laboriously) choose my words here.'

 

[Testosterone boy]

what you seem to imply is that there was intentional disregard with a govt. agenda to provoke interest in the US going to war to establish control over mid east oil. that sounds like a conspiracy to me.

Well.....if we have established latent control of mid east oil in the near future, things will look extremely suspect will they not? Or should we say, "well looky here, we took out the Taliban and Hussein and inherited all this oil. Sure never seen that one coming."

 

[spongebob]

Well.....if we have established latent control of mid east oil in the near future, things will look extremely suspect will they not? Or should we say, "well looky here, we took out the Taliban and Hussein and inherited all this oil. Sure never seen that one coming."

you have to explain to me what you mean by latent control. are you saying that the US govt. itself will determine who has the rights to the oil?

the rights to the oil will be in the hands of the iraqi's. they will chose which oil companies get exploration and extraction rights. that is the way i understand it.

 

[FreakMonster]

Spongebob and all you other disbelievers out there here is more evidence of FBI recklessness prior to 9-11. Long ass read but a good one:

May 30, 2002
CSpan Press Conference, National Press Club
Larry Klayman, Judicial Watch
Robert Wright, FBI Agent
David Schippers, Chicago Attorney
Larry Klayman:
Good morning. My name is Larry Klayman. I’m Chairman and General Counsel of Judicial Watch, a public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse. Standing to my right is the President of Judicial Watch, Tom Fitton. Standing at my left is Special Agent Robert Wright of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Chicago Field Office.

We are here today to conduct this press conference because Special Agent Wright has material information about FBI negligence and recklessness with regard to not investigating terrorism leading up to the events of 9/11. He is the first active FBI agent to appear before the cameras to speak directly to the American people about the breakdown at the FBI. Special Agent Wright is an American hero. Special Agent Wright is coming forward on behalf of the American people at great risk to himself and to others who work with him and are around him.

We first met Special Agent Wright several weeks, in fact months, before 9/11. We met him in the office of David Schippers. You might remember David Schippers of the law firm of Schippers and Bailey. He was the House of Representatives impeachment counsel during the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton. He asked us to participate as co-counsel on behalf of Robert Wright because of the important information that Special Agent Wright had to provide to the American people.

From the very beginning, Special Agent Wright asked Judicial Watch and asked David Schippers to do everything that was appropriate under FBI procedure and policy to allow him to speak to the American people. And, again, this was before 9/11. To alert them that our government was not doing enough to fight terrorism in the United States. As a result, we wrote a series of letters to the FBI and we are going to make those letters available to you today, under their policies and procedures, asking for clearance for Special Agent Wright to be able to speak. He had written a book. His book was called “Fatal Betrayal” with regard to the intelligence mission of the FBI. He wanted to get this book out to the American people so they could read it, so they could demand change so perhaps things like 9/11 would never happen but it did happen.

And after 9/11 happened, I was instructed to contact Attorney General John Ashcroft on behalf of Special Agent Wright and to offer Special Agent Wright’s assistance to the U.S. Dept. of Justice, of which I am a proud alumnus. Unfortunately, we were met with resistance. The chief of the criminal division, Michael Chertoff, responded, “We’ve had enough of conspiracy theories.” “We are not interested in talking to Special Agent Wright.”

In addition, we contacted members of Congress, both the Senate and the House, and we offered Special Agent Wright’s assistance in trying to reform the FBI - this is nine months ago - right after 9/11, to prevent further terrorist attacks and to shore up the lack of national security apparatus which had left us so exposed. Instead of being allowed to talk to Congress, the FBI threatened Robert Wright from coming forward - effectively threatened him with his job. And to this date, has never responded to our letters allowing him to testify, to come forward to Congress or to speak to the American people - that is not responded positively.

The most recent letter came at 5 PM yesterday evening. It was addressed to Dave Schippers, our co-counsel and was also faxed to Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch. That’s me. And it’s a very interesting letter and it’s a very troubling letter, in addition to being threatening. Because just yesterday, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Robert Mueller, undoubtedly in a cover your derrière type of public policy pronouncement, a PR pronouncement, said that in fact that he was very grateful for agents coming forward, agents like Coleen Rowley in Minnesota, who we applaud. She is a very brave lady. And she did a lot a good for this country by being able to expose the breakdown with regard to Zacarias Moussaoui and the lack of following up on this individual, getting training at flight schools, as other FBI memos suggest, to crash planes into the World Trade Towers and other national monuments and buildings.

We applaud Agent Rowley. Bob Wright wanted to come forward long before Agent Rowley even thought of it. But instead of praising Robert Wright and let me read you the praise that was given to Coleen Rowley. This is by the Director of the FBI, Robert Mueller, quote - “let me take a moment to thank Agent Rowley for her letter,” Mueller said in front of cameras Wednesday. Quote - “It is critically important that I hear criticisms of the organization, including criticisms of me, in order to improve the organization. We must be open to criticism from within and from without and to admitting and learning from our mistakes” - Unquote.

Instead, of following this new policy of openness at the FBI, an FBI who hid from the American people for nine months, that in fact they did have intelligence, that there were Islamic radicals training to crash planes into World Trade towers and other monuments. This new policy of the FBI obviously was not sincere because at 5 PM, we got this letter. And I’m going to read it to you.

This is a letter from the U.S. Dept. of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, John E. Collingwood, Asst. Director Office of Public and Congressional Affairs. As a past Justice Dept. alumni, I can assure you that this was cleared by the Director of the FBI.

“Dear Mr. Schippers
This is in response to your correspondence to Special Agent in Charge, Thomas J. Nair, dated May 22nd, 2002, concerning the intent of your client, Special Agent Robert G. Wright, to comment publicly about his duties and responsibilities. I would like to thank you for providing the FBI with advance notice of your client’s intentions, so we can provide appropriate guidance concerning his rights and obligations. Your letter indicates that you and Special Agent Wright believe that the value of the speech outweighs the interests of the FBI and is, therefore, protected under the First Amendment. The FBI’s pre-publication review process recognizes that employees have First Amendment rights and attempts to appropriately balance those rights with the sensitivity of information in FBI files - that an employee may acquire by virtue of being employed by the FBI. An authorized disclosure of this type of information could impair national security, place human life in jeopardy, deny subjects of FBI investigations due process or otherwise prevent the FBI from effectively discharging its responsibilities. “

In effect, what they are writing here is, just as Special Agent Rowley of Minnesota revealed, would have put lives in jeopardy and jeopardized national security. Yet, the Director of the FBI is praising her for coming forward but writing a letter to Special Agent Wright effectively threatening him. And listen to hear these threats, as I read this letter.

“As the FBI’s manual of administrative and operational procedures makes clear, an employee is obligated not to disclose any information within the scope of his employment agreement without written permission to do so. Neither the employee nor his lawyer, therefore,” they are talking to us - at Judicial Watch and Dave Schippers of Schippers and Bailey - “may decide when information otherwise prohibited from disclosure may be publicly disseminated.” The FBI is threatening not just Robert Wright. The FBI is threatening his counsel as well, at the same time that Mueller is praising Coleen Rowley for coming forward after FBI gross negligence and recklessness is exposed and the public is in an outcry.

The letter continues.
“Please note - no objections to disclosure or publication is being interposed solely because of Special Agent Wright’s comments may be critical or disparaging of the FBI, the government or it’s employees. Instead, our focus has been on advising Spec. Agent Wright that there is certain information which he is prohibited from disclosing, pursuant to his employment agreement and FBI policy. As we have detailed in correspondence, dated March 29 and May 10, 2002, the review the FBI and U.S. Attorneys Office has conducted of Spec. Agent Wright’s submissions, indicates that the material concerns an open investigation....”

Rowley was talking about an open investigation. They are still investigating Moussaoui.

“matters occurring before a federal grand jury, “

Certainly there are criminal proceedings underway with regard to Moussaoui.

“sensitive law enforcement techniques, intelligence information and additional material otherwise prohibited from disclosure. Because his request was so inextricably intertwined with protected information, we will unable to authorize him to publicly disseminate this material. “

You can’t disseminate it. That’s what they are telling Spec. Agent Wright.

*SKIP*

David Schippers:
Good morning, everybody. I’m not going to take much time but I have not seen that letter that Larry just read because I’ve been out of town. I just got back last night and I talked to Larry and he told me about the letter and about the same threats that we have been getting from day one.

This young man, Robert Wright, is, in my opinion, a great American because he’s had the courage to come forward. We have dotted every I and crossed every T. We’ve done everything that the FBI requires before an individual comes out and talks publicly. At every stage, we’ve been completely dismissed. We’ve been dismissed by the Congress. We’ve been dismissed by the Attorney General. We’ve been dismissed by the FBI, indeed we have been threatened by the FBI and by the Attorney General’s office. At one point, when Mr. Wright was going to talk to a representative of the Congress, he was told that both he and his lawyer could find themselves in great difficulty if he made one wrong statement. This is the type of thing and this is the way the FBI over the years has kept people from any kind of criticism.

Now, you will note at the end of that letter, we were told that there are appropriate people that we can go to with our complaint. What was it? Bob can tell you, I think it was six or eight months ago, Bob, before 9/11, Bob filed a formal complaint with the Inspector General’s Office against the FBI and against the manner in which they were conducting or not conducting their anti-terrorist activities. Very recently, within the last two weeks, I finally received acknowledgment from the Dept. of Justice, Office of the Inspector General. The individual is charged by statute and by executive order with investigating any complaints by FBI agents or other whistleblowers within the department.

I was told that the Inspector General’s office, quote, does not have the facilities to conduct an investigation of this scope. Therefore, we are going to send it over to the joint committee of the Congress, the Senate and House Joint Committee. Now, I don’t know if they have sent it over there or not, but I haven’t heard word one from the Senate or the House about Robert Wright and what he has. It seems to me that this is just the typical method - throwing it over to the Congress, tell the Congress that they can investigate and then tell Agent Wright he is not allowed to divulge anything to the Congress.

*SKIP*

Robert Wright:
Knowing what I know, and again this was written ninety-one days before the attack, knowing what I know, I can confidently say that until the investigative responsibilities of terrorism are removed from the FBI, I will not feel safe. The FBI has proven for the past decade it cannot identify and prevent acts of terrorism against the United States and its citizens at home and abroad. Even worse, there is virtually no effort on the part of the FBI’s national terrorism unit to neutralize known and suspected terrorists residing within the United States. Unfortunately, more terrorist attacks against American interests, coupled with the loss of American lives will have to occur before those in power give this matter the urgent attention it deserves.

Realizing more American lives are going to be needlessly lost, no one should expect me to consciously sit idly by and to pretend to forget the things I know. By sharing what I know, the terrorism problems plaguing America may be corrected. Knowing what I know, I truly believe I would be derelict in my duty as an American, if I did not do my best to bring the FBI’s dereliction of duty to the attention of others. Therefore, in an effort to prevent more deadly terrorist attacks against American interests at home and abroad, I have made it my mission with the legal assistance of Attorney David Schippers to legally expose the problems of the FBI to the President of the United States, the United States Congress and to the American people.

The main objective of the manuscript - there’s going to be people who say that this is for profit and that's just not the case - it was to be made available to Congress so changes could be made. And the manuscript outlines in very specific detail what I believe allowed September 11th to happen. Yes, it was written before September 11th, except for the last three pages. And I don’t know if Congress is aware of it, if the Bureau has made Congress aware of it or not, but that’s part of the purpose of today’s press conference - so that they are well aware of it. I believe that they need to review this, whoever is the investigative arm does need to review this document, in my opinion.

To the families and victims of September 11th, on behalf of John Vincent, Barry Carmody and myself, we’re sorry.

*SKIP*

Tom Fitton:
Good morning. My name is Tom Fitton. I’m president of Judicial Watch. Before I read Mr. Carmody’s declaration, I’d like to read an excerpted portion of a sworn statement made by our client Mr. Wright, that was released to Mr. Wright, under the Freedom of Information Act. It’s a public document. It’s approved for release with some excisions by the Dept. of Justice and the FBI.

“In April of 1999, Spec. Agent, the name is blanked, had telephoned and advised me that a friend of his worked as an accountant for a company upon which I had served the company president and vice president with federal grand jury subpoenas. He also advised me that the accountant was concerned about harming his application which he had submitted to the FBI to become a translator. Through the course of my investigation, it had been determined that this company had received financing from, the name is blanked, a United States-designated Hamas terrorist, blanked. Each of the aforementioned mentioned are Muslim.

“A few weeks later, I received another telephone call from the Special Agent. He advised me that he had been telephoned by the accountant, who stated that the president of the company was aware of his relationship with this agent. The president inquired of the accountant to arrange a meeting between the Special Agent and the company president regarding the Chicago investigation. The accountant then mentioned his concerns to Special Agent (Blank) that the funds the accountant was transferring overseas on behalf of the company may have been used to finance the Embassy bombings of Africa. In addition, the accountant recounted unusual events following the receipt of the subpoenas. One of the events that was highly unusual to him involved a friend of his coming to the United States, from a Middle Eastern country and secretly meeting with the company president and vice president.

“This Special Agent asked if I desired him to speak with the president of the company. I advised him that I desired him to have the meeting and to wear a concealed recording device or wire to record what transpired. I then went to the United States Attorney’s Office and discussed this matter with them and they agreed that the wire would be of great interest to our investigation. When I returned to the office, my supervisor summoned me to the office and advised me that this Special Agent was not going to wear the wire and that I should forget about it.

“Later, while at the United States Attorney’s Offices on other matters, the question of the Special Agent’s wearing the wire was brought up by one of the attorneys. The Asst. U.S. Attorney still desired the Special Agent to wear the wire. A conference telephone call was then arranged between three Assistant U.S. Attorneys, a fellow FBI Special Agent, and myself, calling from Chicago, Illinois and speaking with the Special Agent and his supervisor in Dallas, Texas. The Assistant U.S. Attorneys expressed to this Special Agent the importance of the investigation and the wire. The Special Agent stated that he would only record the individual if he told him that he was wearing a wire. One of the Assistant U.S. Attorneys told the Special Agent that they would get a meeting location and wire it so the Special Agent would not have to wear the wire. This was not acceptable to that Special Agent, who then proposed placing a tape recorder on a table and then speaking with the individual. When this was deemed unacceptable by those present, the Special Agent advised he would meet with the individual and report the meeting on an FD302, which is an official report form, as he had done before in response to a similar request, from the FBI in Tampa.

“The Assistant U.S. Attorneys present advised that this is not what they desired and inquired what the root of the objection was to wearing the wire. Special Agent advised that told them he feared for his safety. When he was told that the FBI could protect him, the Special Agent said that he did not trust the FBI to protect him. The Assistant U.S. Attorneys continued to ask why the Special Agent would not wear the wire. And he stated, “A Muslim does not record another Muslim.”

“Sometime thereafter, the U.S. Attorneys believing that this telephone conference would be revisited, drafted a document describing the events discussed. I believe this was done, as they felt the decision reached would come into question at a later date and they desired to have a record of his position. I believe this document may also have been signed by the United States Attorney and is maintained by his office.

“Later, while speaking about a different matter to a Special Agent in the FBI Washington field office. I explained the problems I was having in getting the Special Agent to wear a wire. I was informed that his office had problems with the Special Agent previously and I was advised that his office had drafted a document and sent it to the FBI Dallas office expressing their concerns about the Special Agent contacting subjects of their investigations and not disclosing these contacts to the Special Agents conducting the investigations.

Further, I was told to speak with a particular Special Agent in Tampa’s FBI Office.”

And this Special Agent is a friend of Mr. Wright and he related that the subject of one of his investigations, who is Muslim, had once reached out to this Special Agent that we are talking about and he refused to wear a wire when they requested.

We have here the declaration, in addition to the document that I just read to from, the declaration of Barry Carmody, which is sworn to under oath, which is signed today.
Oh, and Wright’s is sworn to under oath as well, the document that you all have.

“I Barry Carmody, a resident of Hillsboro County, Florida, hereby declare as follows:
I am a retired, thirty-four year veteran Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. During my service with the FBI, I was charged with conducting criminal and foreign counter-intelligence investigations pursuant to Dept. of Justice regulations and U.S. law. From 1995 through February of 2000, and in the course of conducting a lawful investigation within the jurisdiction of the FBI’s Tampa Office, I had the occasion to seek the assistance of a FBI Special Agent who was assigned to the Dallas FBI Office. I asked Special Agent (blanked) to record a telephone conversation during a meeting with an individual involved in an open FBI criminal investigation. Special Agent (blanked) refused to record this telephone conversation, saying he would make the call but would not record it. I said that this was unsatisfactory. It had been discussed with the United States Attorney’s Office in Tampa and we required a recorded conversation. He still refused to record the conversation. The refusal to record the telephone conversation may have negatively impacted the conduct of the FBI’s investigation. I informed FBI Headquarters twice about this incident, in 1998 and again in 2000. I am aware of no disciplinary action being taken against him in this matter. In fact, I have been told that Special Agent Robert G. Wright, Jr., had a similar experience with Special Agent (blanked) in the course of a subsequent investigation he pursued. “

 

[FreakMonster]

Another good read on corruption:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31392
Thursday, March 6, 2003
FBI agent says bureau muzzling him
Counter-terror investigator claims Muslim allowed to hinder probes
Posted: March 6, 2003

By Art Moore
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

An FBI counter-terrorism agent claims he is being silenced by his agency to cover up its mishandling of a pre-Sept. 11 probe into alleged supporters of Osama bin Laden.

Chicago-based Special Agent Robert Wright received a rejection letter yesterday from the head of the FBI's public affairs office in response to his request to disclose details of his charges. One of Wright's claims is that the FBI allowed a Muslim agent to hinder an investigation due to religious loyalties and sensitivities, reflecting a pattern of conduct by the agency that has harmed the nation's security.

Wright said he also discovered later that this same agent hindered a probe of University of South Florida professor Sami al-Arian, who was arrested last month on terror-related charges.

WorldNetDaily obtained a copy of the letter from FBI public affairs chief Michael P. Kortan, which argues that the information Wright wants to make public includes sensitive and classified material related to pending cases.

"That's nonsense," Wright's attorney David Schippers told WorldNetDaily. "Everything Bob's got is public. He's got it documented with public sources."

Wright claims his investigation in 1999 of Yassin Qadi – later named by the government as a key financial backer of al-Qaida – ran into a roadblock when Special Agent Gamal Abdel-Hafiz refused to wear a hidden wire to record a meeting with Qadi.

According to Wright, Abdel-Hafiz stated in his defense, "A Muslim does not record another Muslim."

Wright says Qadi, a wealthy Saudi businessman, helped fund the 1998 al-Qaida bombings of two American embassies in Africa.

Two stories

The FBI claimed in a statement last December that Abdel-Hafiz objected to the wire because the meeting was to have taken place in a mosque, though the agency now says only that the Muslim agent's supervisors were responsible for the decision.

Schippers claims that the FBI changed its story because it "found out everybody involved was ready to testify."

FBI spokesman Ed Cogswell insists that the initial statement was a misunderstanding.

"It may have been an area sensitive to [Muslims], but it wasn't technically a mosque," Cogswell told WorldNetDaily. "My understanding was that it was a convention facility, and they were to meet in the area reserved for prayer."

But Schippers insists the FBI essentially has made Wright out to be a liar and contends that the agency gives the appearance it has something to hide.

"If there is nothing there, fine, make it open, lay it out; or lay it out to a grand jury," Schippers said. "But don't hide it and tell everybody who knows about it that they can't say anything."

The FBI's Cogswell maintains, "We're not hiding anything."

"The decision as to whether he should wear the wire was made by managers in consulation with the Chicago office, not by the agent," he said.

In its December statement, the FBI said Abdel-Hafiz has been working since February 2001 in Riyadh, handling liaison with authorities in Saudi Arabia and Gulf states, and "has met all FBI performance and security standards."

No place to turn

In his letter, Kortan noted that the federal whistleblower statute allows FBI employees to disclose sensitive information to the attorney general, FBI director, deputy FBI director and the Office of Professional Responsibility.

Schippers said Wright filed a formal complaint with the inspector general of the Justice Department in October 2001, shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, but was told he should take his case to Congress.

"When I asked them why they weren't going to do it, they told me that it was because they didn't have the facilities to conduct such an investigation," said Schippers, who headed the U.S. House of Representatives' 1998 impeachment inquiry of President Bill Clinton.

'This whole thing is insanity," Schippers said. "There is some reason the FBI doesn't want Bob to talk."

Schippers is working in conjunction with the legal watchdog group Judicial Watch, which has filed a lawsuit to allow Wright to publish a manuscript entitled "Fatal Betrayals of the Intelligence Mission." The document is Wright's assessment of the FBI's anti-terror failures and his ideas about how to restructure the agency.

"It's well-documented that their incompetence, recklessness and neglect contributed significantly to 9-11, and that's what [Wright's case] is all about," Judicial Watch chairman and general counsel Larry Klayman told WND. "It's also quite clear that they have not cleaned their act up since 9-11."

Klayman says that Wright's complaints have resulted in a demotion to "paper pusher" and "chief dishwasher" in the Chicago field office.

Wright's version

Wright gave his version of events in an affidavit filed in a civil rights lawsuit Abdel-Hafiz brought against him, which claimed discrimination on the basis of national origin and religion.

Wright said that while working with the international terrorist squad at the Chicago office in 1999, he learned that Qadi – who had become the subject of an investigation – had asked Abdel-Hafiz to meet for a discussion about the probe. Qadi's connection with Abdel-Hafiz came about through the businessman's accountant, who was a personal friend of the Muslim agent.

The U.S. Attorney's office agreed that it would be valuable for Abdel-Hafez to wear a concealed wire to record the meeting, but the Muslim agent objected.

In a telephone conference that included Wright, a fellow FBI special agent, three U.S. attorneys and the Dallas office supervisor, Abdel-Hafiz explained why he would not wear the wire or meet in a specially equipped room, according to Wright.

Abdel-Hafiz first said he feared for his safety, the affidavit said.

When told that the FBI would give protection, Abdel-Hafiz said he did not trust the agency to protect him, according to Wright.

After a U.S. attorney continued to press for an answer, Abdel-Hafiz stated: "A Muslim does not record another Muslim."

Wright said that after the discussion, which was ended by Abdel-Hafiz's Dallas supervisor, he telephoned FBI headquarters in Washington and spoke with Acting Unit Chief Christopher Hamilton, who "told me I would have to understand" the Muslim agent's "perspective."

According to Wright, the U.S. attorneys documented the events, believing the case would be re-visited.

Wright later learned that an agent in Florida had a similar experience with Abdel-Hafiz, who refused to wear a wire in his investigation. Schippers said that probe involved the Florida professor, Al-Arian.

Schippers says Wright continues to try to get his story out, but "at every step they refuse to let him talk."

"He's going to have to take his job in his hands to assert his First Amendment rights," Schippers said.

Another FBI whistleblower has warned of the bureau's purported counter-terror shortcomings.

Veteran agent Colleen Rowley sent a letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller last week, warning that the bureau is not prepared to deal with new terrorist strikes that could result from a U.S. war with Iraq.

Rowley, a 22-year veteran of the bureau's Minneapolis field office, said that Mueller had a responsibility to warn the White House that the bureau would not be able to "stem the flood of terrorism that will likely head our way in the wake of an attack on Iraq."

 

[spongebob]

Spongebob and all you other disbelievers out there here is

non-believer of what??? corruption or failure on behalf of the intelligence community or the govt.???

please find one post where i ever said that i was a non-believer of that.

if you dont understand what i am talking about, the difference between a systematic failure and a conspiracy(a hidden agenda of any kind) then just say so.

 

[FreakMonster]

non-believer of what??? corruption or failure on behalf of the intelligence community or the govt.???

You seem to be a non-believer of corruption within higher ranks of the FBI. Am I wrong?

if you dont understand what i am talking about, the difference between a systematic failure and a conspiracy(a hidden agenda of any kind) then just say so.

I've been saying all along that I believe there has been a cover up. My posts speaks volumes.

 

[spongebob]

You seem to be a non-believer of corruption within higher ranks of the FBI. Am I wrong?


I've been saying all along that I believe there has been a cover up. My posts speaks volumes.

when have i ever said that i dont believe in corruption or failures within our govt or intel community??? NEVER!!!

now if you are connecting corruption directly to 9-11 and insinuating that corruption equals conspiracy then yes i disagree. let me make it as simple as possible. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS A CONSPIRACY ON ANY LEVEL, I BELIEVE IT WAS A SYSTEMATIC FAILURE!!!

here is your post again,
People are not THAT stupid, except some people like you. More and more people each day are getting very tired of all this and undergoing rapid change in their formerly closely held beliefs. They don't trust the government. They know the govternment is lying, they sense very strongly that the government is the one behind the September 11th attacks. They are being propagandized to at a level never before seen. And their anger is building. And there are indications here and there that the secret government's neatly constructed plot is fraying at the edges. There's too many stories out there for them to manage and ALL of them seem like they can unravel at a moments notice.

Sure Bin Laden's men are carrying out the strikes but make no mistake about it, someone here, left the door open a little too wide for a thinking person to believe it was a mistake

And they're going to do it again.
It’s just too obvious to avoid. We should all be talking about it, shouting it out from the rooftops, writing letters to our congressman (or tying them to rocks and throwing them through their windows.) Our future’s at stake. And the City of New York is at stake. And the lives of Americans is at stake. It is clear in our analysis that there are too many corollaries and similarities to ignore that point directly to military intelligence involvement in the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There are too many facts swirling around these suspicious events that bear the hallmarks of a planned military intelligence style operation.

first, you thought it was a conspiracy. second, this is not your words, you cut and pasted them from a article. quit passing articles off as yours.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Well....The point is this.

We all agree that there is corruption....We all agree that there were systematic failures....

The issue is...Has the US Gov ever lied to the american people? Has the US government ever commited horrible acts? Has the US government ever acted out of greed? Has the US government ever screwed over another weaker country for its own interest? Has the US government ALWAYS ACTED AS MORALLY AS IT CLAIMS?

You want Motive? PNAC is motive enough for anything.

THis is about US and THEM....LIVING AND DYING....this is not about saying please and thank you.

Dont you find it Odd....that Pearle wrote "CLEAN BREAK"????? Which was about the US dominating mideast countries for the security of Israel?....And that Pearle was on eof the grand architects of this war in Iraq? And that in this document...Pearle said that the first step would hve to be iraq????

Please tell me that this is not at least a little suspect.

Guys....no one is saying with absolute certainty that we did or did not know about 9-11.....

BUT IF WE DO NOT QUESTION OUR CORRUPT & GREEDY GOVERNMENT....are we not to blame?

We are not accusing....we are questioning.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Just one more thing for you people who think that 9-11 could not have been prevented...WATCH THIS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/view/

 

[Frackal]

Spongebob, what about the insider trading moves linked to the CIA?

 

[SUST-MAN]

Bump

 

[Frackal]

"The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor" - Project for a New American Century

 

[spongebob]

Spongebob, what about the insider trading moves linked to the CIA?

im not sure i know what you are talking about, if you have a link i'd appriciate it.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

I wish I could share the whole truth with you Sheeple, but it would scare you! No need to change history yet! There is still time before I must create a time warp to create a disruption in
the time continuum!

 

[SUST-MAN]

Dcup....we know, we know....WORLD DOMINATION