First Cycle!

[zlwhine]

Hey guys! I want to apologize in advance for the lengthy write-up - I just want to be as thorough as possible and make sure I cover everything!

I recently created my account, but I have been a "shadow lurker" for the last few years on here lol. I've been extensively doing research on cycling for the last few years and finally feel comfortable taking the jump to hop on AAS. I have been training hard for the last eight years (weight training and cardio 7 days a week) and want to take the next step. Currently, I am 25 at a true 9% body fat reading at 6'2" and weigh 205-208 pounds (fluctuates within this range). I am making this post to hopefully gain insight on the plans of my first cycle and hopefully utilize the knowledge of the more experienced members over here!

To get straight to the point, my goals for this cycle are to gain a good amount of lean mass. I have been strictly dieting for the last 2 months in attempt to get as lean as possible before starting this cycle. I lost nearly 25 lbs at the end of these two months and I am very pleased with the outcome. Prior to cutting, I was in a motorcycle accident that put me out of the gym for about 5 months; thankfully, muscle memory kicked in and my strength and size was finally back after a serious 8 month bulk. The only downside was that I put on a significant amount of fat in the process.

That is all old news, however, and the accident, bulking, and cutting phases have passed. Thus, my goals for my first cycle are as follows: I would like to gain a significant amount of muscle while staying at or near the same body fat percentage I am at now (*as stated before, I am at a true 9% and would not like to move above 11-12% body fat by the end of my cycle, if possible!).

(1) Is this goal an obtainable outcome with strict dieting? Would it be reasonable to aim for gaining 15 lbs of lean mass?

Without getting too detailed on my diet, I plan on eating approximately 3500 calories per day (340g protein, 360g carb, and 80g fat ~ roughly 40/40/20) in the beginning of my cycle. Main carb sources will include oats, brown rice, quinoa, whole grain pasta, and a mixture of dextrose, waxymaize, and maltodextrin in my post-workout shake. Protein will come mainly from lean beef, chicken breast, tuna, egg whites, whey, and casein. Fats will mainly come from nuts, avocados, fish, and olive oil.

(2) Are my calories too low / too high for my goal? Is there any way I can tweak my macronutrient ratio in a more desirable fashion to accommodate my goals?

And now, for my cycle plans. I have already ordered and received everything and just want to tweak dosages and length of administering each compound in the best way possible in light of my goal. I will be using Testosterone Enanthate as the base to my cycle. I also have Turinabol (enough to run 70 mg per day for 6 weeks) and Winstrol (enough to run 50 mg per day for 5 weeks) on hand. I will be taking liv 52 and NAC throughout the entire cycle. I have aromasin on hand for use during cycle. For PCT, I have nolvadex and clomid.

With that said, I have been considering a few different courses of action in regards to how I want to space out the introduction of each compound throughout the length of the cycle.

Option 1: Tbol jumpstart and winny finisher (leaning toward this one)

Week 1-12: Test E 500 mg EW
Week 1-6: Tbol 60-70 mg ED
Week 11-14: Winny 50 mg ED
PCT

Option 2: winny jumpstart and tbol finisher. Although this is very uncommon and unconventional, hear me out --> because I just finished cutting, I could use winny to aid my diet even more in preparation to have more room to grow throughout the cycle when the test actually kicks in. If I did this option, I would put myself in a deficit for the first few weeks of my cycle instead of the diet I referenced earlier, and would introduce the other diet when I cease use of winstrol. Winstrol would provide a notable strength increase as well in the beginning of the cycle which could aid in more efficient muscular stimulation and breakdown right off the bat when the test E kicks in around week 4-5. I would then set myself in a slight caloric surplus (3500 cals) and cruise on test alone and introduce tbol toward the end of the cycle. I have read that tbol in conjunction with test actually produces a synergistic effect for muscular growth, which would allow me to continue growing up until the end of the cycle. Granted, with this option I will not be "winstrol shredded" at the end, but, my goal of putting on mass while staying under 11-12% body fat seems obtainable. This would look something like this:

Week 1-12: Test E 500 mg EW
Week 1-5: Winny 50mg ED
Week 9-14: Tbol 60-70 mg ED
PCT

What are your thoughts on this? Because Winny seems to shine more as a finisher, this cycle is very intriguing to me. Let me know what you think!

Option 3: Tbol jump start and bulk throughout (least likely at the moment)

Week 1-12: Test E 500 mg EW
Week 1-6: Tbol 70 mg ED
PCT

My concerns with option 3: I am concerned that if I stay slightly above maintenance calories for the entirety of the cycle I will be above 11-12% body fat by the end of the cycle.
In addition, because I will be slightly above maintenance calories for the entire cycle, how many more pounds of muscle could I realistically put on with the additional few extra weeks of being in a slight surplus (relative to the other two options stated above with winstrol utilized while eating at a deficit while winstrol is administered)? I would imagine it would not be very significant and thus view the other two options as better scenarios.

Once again, I apologize for the lengthy write-up! I simply wanted to cover everything in one post. I will greatly appreciate any feedback and look forward to hearing your opinions!Thanks!

 

[Saiyan7]

Yes with the diet and training on check 15 lbs is a solid goal bro.
I like the idea of option 1, IF you were more experienced. Option 2 is out for me because of the oral order. Like I said though, that's a lot of oral for a first cycle.
So for your first trial I would suggest option 3, or even option 4... Test only. I packed on some good size with test only. Actually I kept 15 lbs lol.
Test only should be everyone's first dip into aas. But if you're sold on using an oral, tbol is a good trial to add.

 

[SwollenMember_18]

Yes with the diet and training on check 15 lbs is a solid goal bro.
I like the idea of option 1, IF you were more experienced. Option 2 is out for me because of the oral order. Like I said though, that's a lot of oral for a first cycle.
So for your first trial I would suggest option 3, or even option 4... Test only. I packed on some good size with test only. Actually I kept 15 lbs lol.
Test only should be everyone's first dip into aas. But if you're sold on using an oral, tbol is a good trial to add.

Saiyan always says exactly what I'm gunna say before I say it if he beats me to a thread

I agree man, you don't need the orals first cycle they won't make much of a noticeable impact, and test only is always the best way to start. But yes a tbol kicker would be fine if you wanted.

As for your goals yes easily possible, the orals won't make a difference in how lean you stay, the winny would only help make you look a bit dryer while your running it then you'd loose some hardness after it clears anyways so it's pointless. Just eat clean at. 3-500 cal surplus, cycle your carbs down on rest days if you really want to stay dry. Keep some light cardio in the mix a few times a week and boom your golden brotha.

 

[zlwhine]

Thank you everyone for the input and recommendations! In light of your recommendations, I have decided to pretty much drop the winny and run test as a base, tbol as a kickstarter (run it 5 weeks), and then cruise on test for the rest of the cycle. I, too, was a bit iffy on the amount of oral use, especially it being my first cycle, so I'm actually glad for this modified route of action. I will be logging my experience in a separate thread, both for data as well as "motivation" to keep me in check with my diet and lifting.

The only thing I still sometimes worry about is if tbol was the right choice to kickstart... I was also highly considering dbol, as many more people seem to be familiar with it and highly recommend it as a kickstarter. But, the high level of bloat and thus "unclean gains" we're not attractive to what I hope to accomplish, so I opted for tbol instead as they often refer to it as "dbol without the bloat" and is also a bit more mild than dbol mg for mg. I just hope my desire to avoid bloating in the beginning of cycle did not foolishly push me away from an extra few lbs of lean mass I could have additionally gained in the grand scheme of things lol.

 

[SwollenMember_18]

Thank you everyone for the input and recommendations! In light of your recommendations, I have decided to pretty much drop the winny and run test as a base, tbol as a kickstarter (run it 5 weeks), and then cruise on test for the rest of the cycle. I, too, was a bit iffy on the amount of oral use, especially it being my first cycle, so I'm actually glad for this modified route of action. I will be logging my experience in a separate thread, both for data as well as "motivation" to keep me in check with my diet and lifting.

The only thing I still sometimes worry about is if tbol was the right choice to kickstart... I was also highly considering dbol, as many more people seem to be familiar with it and highly recommend it as a kickstarter. But, the high level of bloat and thus "unclean gains" we're not attractive to what I hope to accomplish, so I opted for tbol instead as they often refer to it as "dbol without the bloat" and is also a bit more mild than dbol mg for mg. I just hope my desire to avoid bloating in the beginning of cycle did not foolishly push me away from an extra few lbs of lean mass I could have additionally gained in the grand scheme of things lol.

I wouldn't worry about it man... It will be an irrelevant difference in the long run and tbol is the safer more side free drug so better to run for a first go. Use dbol on your next bulker when your less worried about bloat and have a bit more experience controlling estrogen!!

Best of luck on the cycle bro!! I still remember my first hahaha jealous

 

[zlwhine]

Yeah exactly why I opted for tbol instead haha... That's great to hear!

I appreciate it man thanks a lot! See you on the dark side

 

[j_p]

just use one oral and pick to bulk or cut for the cycle iMO

 

[zlwhine]

just use one oral and pick to bulk or cut for the cycle iMO

Will do... Contemplating whether I should run tbol for the first few weeks as a Kickstarter or simply front loading the test and excluding Orals all together.. Gonna aim at bulking and save winny for another time!

 

[Saiyan7]

Will do... Contemplating whether I should run tbol for the first few weeks as a Kickstarter or simply front loading the test and excluding Orals all together.. Gonna aim at bulking and save winny for another time!

I am part of the group that says there's no reason to front load. Just have a couple weeks of patience man. I know it's hard. It's still hard a couple cycles in lol.

 

[zlwhine]

I am part of the group that says there's no reason to front load. Just have a couple weeks of patience man. I know it's hard. It's still hard a couple cycles in lol.

Oh yeah you definitely hit the nail with that statement; where is my patience?! Seems to be nonexistent lol. I should work on that... Haha

I just wanna start my cycle right away so in 1 week I'll look like Phil Heath... That's how this works, right?!

Haha just kidding; all jokes aside though, I'm curious why you are not a proponent of front loading. Although I can only critique it from a sideline point of view as I have never done it, it seems like it could potentially net yield more out of a cycle than if done conventionally (just from my vantage point). Now, I'm definitely not knocking either way, I'm just trying to sort out the logistics in my head in the two different scenarios:

With front loading, peak concentration of test is reached much more quickly than without. Many believe that even though this occurs, there is really no significant advantage in terms of net gains. Some say otherwise, but it definitely seems split across the board. I'm curious, what do you think makes them even out down the line if you believe there really isn't an advantage to front loading. Could the gradual buildup of test levels actually more beneficial than front loading due to the fact that the receptors are continuously being stimulated more and more (as higher concentrations of test build up in the system with each subsequent injection) in the first half of the cycle as opposed to being hit with the peak concentration right away and simply riding with that the rest of the cycle, avoiding any "plateaus"?