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First Cycle Rollercoaster Help - Thanks!

PBateman

New member
Stats: 32yrs, 5’6”, 150lbs, endurance athlete for 17 years

To make a long story short last year I had a rough year. Started a new job, moved to a new city, gained about 35 lbs (a lot for someone my size). I continued to train but did very little weight training. I was probably running 15 miles per week but still went up to 160 lbs or around 25% body fat.

This year I decided I’d turn myself around. I normally hover around 15% body fat at a weight of 140-145. I’ve always wanted more lean mass and less fat but my body just won’t go that way no matter how much I lift.

It took me a month to get back to lifting what I used to and was running an additional 20 mi/week. My lifting plateaued and I knew I could lose more weight by running but I didn’t want that tiny runner’s body anymore. So my cycle began. I have a biomedical engineering background and so wanted to be very careful. My inventory included:

Testosterone Ethanate 5 10ml vials 250mg/ml
Trenbolone Acetate 2 10ml vials 100mg/ml
Novaldex 25mg x 50 caps
Aromasin 25mg x 50 caps
Arimidex 2mg/ml x 30ml
Clomid 25mg x 100 caps
HGC 5000 UI 2 Vials
Finasteride 1mg x 90 pills

Now I didn’t expect to use all of it but I wanted a solid stockpile.

Here’s what I’ve taken so far pinning on Monday & Thursday, taking 1mg finasteride per day:

Week 1 – 600mg Test,
Week 2 – 450mg Test
Week 3 – 450mg Test, 25 mg Aromasin
Week 4 – 450mg Test, 0.5mg Arimidex
Week 5 - Now

I work out 4 days a week. I do 30 minutes of aerobic per day and lift various muscle groups per day 30-45 min of lifting.

WEEK 1 I felt AWESOME. High libido, good strength, I’m and just generally felt great. I’m also always hungry!

WEEK 2 was much the same. I had some night sweats but nothing that was too much of a bother.

WEEK 3 I realized I was getting bloated and my feet were in immense pain after running. I kept drinking water but nothing helped. I then took 1 cap of 25mg Aromasin. I was able to run more and my bloating went down, but so did everything else; my energy, my enthusiasm and my libido. The change was almost instantaneous. I swore never to take Aromasin again. I was feeling great then suddenly like crap! My appetite also went down.

Then end of WEEK 4 comes around and I find I’m bloating again but I’m also feeling better. The side effects of the aromasin were subsiding. This time I decided to take a different path and took a tiny dose 0.5mg of Arimidex (exactly 7 days later). Suddenly my libido was gone, I was unmotivated and felt depressed. Again it was almost instantaneous. The worst symptom is that even when I work up my libido I can’t finish no matter what. Now I have no hunger whatsoever and literally need to force-feed myself.

My goal is to put on more muscle and get that body fat down. It’s just difficult to feel like I’m doing well when I’m so bloated. I have seen gains in muscle but I’m puffy there's no definition. Although I’ve lost body fat my waist hasn’t gotten any smaller. I also eat clean and meticulously watch my sodium intake.

So what do you guys think? How could the AIs have such a profound effect on my body? I have no other side effects from the Test so an AI is definitely not needed. Should I just deal with the bloating? If so, will I lose it during my PCT? Is there any other way I can get my bloating down?

I feel like I need to stay away from AIs. There’s no reason other than the bloating to take them. The Test makes me feel so awesome but the low doses of AIs make me feel worse than I ever have before? I was thinking maybe I took the arimidex too soon after the aromasin? What should I do next? Would adding Tren help?

I know this is a lot of info. Thanks for the help!
 
I KNOW that you are not ready for a steroid cycle at all and with your goals your doing things wrong... you should be running sarms right now and not steroids... you have misconceptions in your thinking, like many do, and are starting on the wrong path... please read a bit on sarms and watch my videos...


Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators (SARMS) - Evolutionary.org


here is a sample stack for you...

1-8 Ostarine 25 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-8 S4 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg in the p.m.
1-8 GW-510516 10-20 mg day... split doses 12 hours apart
1-8 HcGenerate n2bm.com
1-8 D-spark n2bm.com
3-8 Albuterol 12-18 mg day ag-guys.com
Mini pct 9-12

Hcgenerate ES n2bm.com


Best Bodybuilding Supplement Store, Bodybuilding Store
 
My issue with SARMS is the lack of clinical data to back them up. I've researched the published literature on all of these molecules but right now SARMS for bulking may be the St. John's wart of depression. I need to see clinical efficacy and there's only one SARM that's gotten to phase III clinical trials. I'm not sure I'm willing to invest in something that hasn't yet been scientifically proven.
 
My issue with SARMS is the lack of clinical data to back them up. I've researched the published literature on all of these molecules but right now SARMS for bulking may be the St. John's wart of depression. I need to see clinical efficacy and there's only one SARM that's gotten to phase III clinical trials. I'm not sure I'm willing to invest in something that hasn't yet been scientifically proven.

Are you speaking in terms of side effects or results?
 
I'm talking about both. You can research all the articles at pubmed and there appear to be 52 studies with SARMS performed on men. From the results it seems like SARMS are going to be great at retaining bone mass and preventing anabolism. They'll work well with an aging male population and will be a "soft" alternative to testosterone replacement therapy. There is currently 1 compound in phase III clinical trials so it does have some merit. Still it hasn't been tested in a younger population and without the science I won't do it. Sorry, it's the masters degree in biomedical engineering that makes me think in this manner. SARMS might be great but I'm not ready to be the test subject.

I chose Test-E because it's scientifically proven to work. There are piles of studies to back it up with men from 20-70 yrs. Also the cycle was going GREAT! It was just the bloating that was frustrating. Also the fact that I'm so sensitive to AIs is particularly strange. Still, taurine is helping with the running and I should be able to do more aerobic to fend off the bloating.

I was just hoping to get some help. In truth if I can't find an answer I'll probably just continue my Test-E cycle out to 12 weeks, try things other than AIs to fight the bloating and finally do a traditional Clomid/Nova PCT.
 
a lot of your problem is that you are running aromasin too high... you should be running it 12.5 mg eod... if that is not working, then bump it to ed... 25 mg ed is far too much... arimidex is not very strong and if your gyno prone it is not going to help much... it merely suppresses estrogen as opposed to aromasin, which is a suicide inhibitor... aromasin has many benefits but if you run it too high, just like anything else, you will see the negatives... you also must understand, when you are running test, you are getting suppressed... you need to be running hcgenerate es alongside anyway, to help with the on cycle suppression and it will also help with your libido as well... the bloating is due to high estrogen and you don't want that going into pct... you need to get it under control... your estrogen levels are too high at this point and its going to lead to a lot of other problems... i hope you are running supports... n2guard will keep your bp under control because elevated estrogen is not going to do you any favors with that...

as far as your pct goes... nolva and clomid is not a sufficient pct... you need more than that to recover... here is a strong pct...

clomid 50/50/25/25 AG-guys.com
nolva 40/20/20/20 AG-guys.com
unleahsed/post cycle combo n2bm.com
aromasin 12.5 mg eod AG-guys.com
n2guard n2bm.com


OPTIONAL

Keto burn MRSUPPS.COM
ostarine 25 mg day uniquemicals.com

Phytoserms and HCGenerate
can be used in place of the Unleashed/post cycle combo if they are out of stock

USE COUPON CODE DYLAN10 AT NEEDTOBUILDMUSCLE.COM FOR 10% OFF…
 
In my honest opinion, testosterone bloat comes more from diet than estrogen. I don't bloat at all on Test E, even at high doses with no AI....however I eat super clean and carefully control carb and fat intake. Also starting a cycle with a lower bodyfat helps tremendously with bloat and estrogen both. I stay around 6% so I have no issues.

Crushing your estrogen with too much AI is not the answer. You can't gain without estrogen and your libido will be gone
 
Not sure if anyone is still paying attention to this thread but I thought I'd give you guys an update 3 weeks later.

I've finally reached my steady state and have gotten to understand my body. The Test-E ONLY as a first cycle is probably the best advice I've taken. I'm absolutely blown away by my progress. I've accomplished more in the past 7 weeks than I have in the last year. It's truly helped me breakthrough the dreaded plateau which I perceived more as a ceiling.

So here's what I did to get back to normal. After about 10 days my body recovered from the aromasin (which I now considered the nuclear option) and I went on a EOD dose of 0.5mg Adex. This combined with a weekly dose of 500mg Test-E has put me in a very comfortable place. I've also been carb cycling which I'm sure has also helped.

I've DEFINITELY put on some weight. I had to go out and buy new dress shirts because I can't button the top anymore. That and my pants are getting looser around the waist. I'm down to about 17% bodyfat and dropping. I'd like to hit 10% by the end of my cycle. I only worry that while I'll be able to fit into all my pants again none of my shirts will fit.

My takeaway from the experience is really that I definitely need to run an AI when I cycle. I've had absolutely no signs of gyno but I think running finasteride is what really tipped me in the wrong direction.

I looked at some pharmacokinetic models and realized if you're inhibiting your body's ability to break Testosterone down into DHT you're going to push it down the e2 path.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback guys. And to anyone out there running Test-E with BF% close to 20 DEFINITELY use an AI from the start.
 
17 to 10% bf is an unrealistic goal with one cycle. 17 to 14% is much better in my opinion. Check out Layne Nortans ultamate cutting cycle for nutritional information. By the way glad you took our advice. However you should of started this cycle at a much lower bodyfat. Good luck brother
 
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