Essential Fats

[Debu]

Do efa's help with the hardness of muscles or that is just carbs?

 

[wilson6]

EFAs particularly gamma linolenic acid (omega-6 pathway) and EPA and DHA (omega-3 pathway) enhance insulin sensitivity but don't increase the hardness of the muscle.

The reason carbs do that is because they draw water into the muscle in roughly a 3:1 ratio (water to carbs) making the muscle fuller and well as more functional from an energy standpoint. If you keep the water out from the sc compartment, you will look harder.

W6

 

[Debu]

Thanks W6- then what happens in the carb spill over? Is just too much water or are you actually putting on fat?

 

[wilson6]

What do you mean by carb spill over? Where do they spill over to and what determines when a carb is spilling over?

W6

 

[Debu]

LOL I hope I just didn't sound like a babbling idiot. I guess it's the term thrown out there when people carb up either on a ckd type diet or competion diet and are carb loading, if you don't get enough you are soft and smooth, if you get too much, i.e. spill over, you look soft, smooth, and pudgy.

 

[wilson6]

Carb spill over in a true clinical sense would only happen in a Type I diabetic with poor glycemic control, or Type II diabetic that is insulin resistant, in which case blood glucose rises because there is no uptake of glucose by the liver or muscle (i.e., spilling over into the blood).

In BBs, carb spill over is really not a correct way to assess what they observe as a function of carb intake as it doesn't spill over into the blood long-term.

From a BBs perspective, what is fat is hoped to be water (i.e., if you failed to prepare properly for a show and think you're holding water when you're really just fat), or what is thought to be fat from a one day carb load but is really only water.

In reality, it is pretty hard to convert carbs into fat. You have to eat about an extra 500 grams a day for a while to start significant de novo lipogenesis. However, only a small amount of carbs will prevent you from burning fat which is generally the case with most on this board. They think the carbs are making them fat when the reality is that the carbs are preventing them from losing fat.

Anyhow, the softening from carb intake takes a little time. The process begins with the increase in insulin that potentiates sodium retention and then water follows.

One of the reasons a competitor looks better in the evening from a high carb lunch following prejudging is that the carbs and water are in the muscle, but there has not been time for the water to get sc.

Usually the next day they look full but a little smoother.

Lastly, everyone is different.

The "too much" issue has more to do with a temporal effect (eating 300 grams of carbs over 24 hrs) in my opinion vs a simply issue quantity of carbs (eating 300 grams in several hours). The resulting appearance is likely to be different from the same amount of carbs.

Perhaps MS can comment on this.

W6

 

[MS]

I think Wilson6 covered everything perfectly. I consider the "carb spillover" that BBs refer to as more of an "insulin spillover", which results in extracellular sodium and fluid retention. The best way to avoid this IMHO is to carb up slowly with low GI carbs, and avoid over depleting carbs or use of high fat/low carb diets just prior to a show. Also don't go crazy with fluid or sodium restrictions as this is just begging for a large fluid 'rebound' and can also inhibit carb loading.

A good course of r-ALA is also helpful in my experience.

 

[Debu]

Wow, I'm always impressed with you and MS's answers. This brings up a good point. From what I remember, way back when BB's only depleted their carbs gradually when dieting and usually at the end did they deplete and then load. Nowadays, I hear everyone throwing out the carbs from day one and carb loading for 1 or 2 days while taking in alot of essential fat. MS made a point in another post how she ups her carbs as she ups her cardio, which makes sense, but most people up the cardio cut the carbs.

"In reality, it is pretty hard to convert carbs into fat. You have to eat about an extra 500 grams a day for a while to start significant de novo lipogenesis. However, only a small amount of carbs will prevent you from burning fat which is generally the case with most on this board. They think the carbs are making them fat when the reality is that the carbs are preventing them from losing fat."

That statement probably explains why I have had such trouble dropping weight since I was one of those who cut out carbs.

How is it then that carbs help to burn fat? Is it the energy it provides to fuel the actual fat burnign cycle?

 

[MS]

There are as many different and succesful ways to diet for fat loss as there are succesful dieters. One way is not 'better' than another way. On the whole, carbs can be included in a contest or fat loss diet with great succes if you understand their purpose and use them appropriately. First of all, if you are not obese, and on a hypocaloric diet with plenty of weight training, then you are very likely to have good insulin sensitivity compared to an obese couch potato who chronically overfeeds. The exception to that rule is if you are on a high fat/low carb diet. These cause a transient decrease in insulin sensitivity which definitely impacts the success of any carb ups. I have no doubt this is why folks on CKDs gains so much fluid during their carb-ups, and this is a perfect example of how NOT to eat the week precomp. You need at least a low-moderate level of carbs in your diet to keep the enzyme needed for glycogen synthesis optimally primed and ready to work for you. You also want excellent insulin sensitivity to avoid insulin spillover.

Aside from that, properly timed carbs help to keep you metabolism higher than without carbs. Carbs increase thyroid, leptin, muscle glycogen and a plethora of other anabolic/anticatabolic signals. The most important (and seemingly controversial) thing to remember about carbs and fats in the diet is that they are not really that important compared to a) getting plenty of protein and adequate EFAs, and b)creating an overall calorie deficit. Beyond those two simple rules there is plenty of leeway to design a diet and training program to achieve fatloss.

 

[valerie]

Excellent turn this thread has taken.

MS has pointed out the simplicity of dieting. No need to fear carbs. God forbid I've added fruit ( a small amount) and the fat is still coming off. I am a much happier camper with small amounts of carbs in my daily diet. Nice plus is no cravings.

Let me plug Washington apples here, they are the best!!!!!!-valerie