Does it pay to be a good person

[B0ARDIN087]

At 23?

Because I'm not. And everytime i try to be I get fucked. Which just enforces my behavior. I'm good to my family and I'm good to my friends but females and morons have a special place in their heart for me

 

[cindylou]

I guarantee you it does pay to be a 'good' person. Most people are deceived into thinking their life will be worse if they do, but thats not The Truth. I am guided by an inner voice, a conscience. I dont always listen; but in general I try. Do you not have a conscience? What do you do that makes you think you are 'not a good person'? How are you 'fucked' when you try to do the right thing?

I guess it just depends on your situation. I think its pays to be a good person at any age but I dont know the story

 

[nangiggles]

I dont know if it pays since the definition of paying doesnt go hand in hand with being good for me... I'm good cuz I want to now because I expect a reward in return. I do see how sometimes u can be nice to comeone and teh bitches turn around and spit in ur face or get u in trouble or are just plain ungrateful...

 

[calveless wonder]

it pays to be a good person, but it depends to what extent you commit yourself. Also if you are expecting something in return automatically, then it's not neccessarily an unselfish act.

the thing is being selective of who you help and how much. someone who's undeserving or ungrateful or just lazy..doesn't deserve a great deal of help.

 

[tha joker]

It doesn't pay to be a good person. It pays to be a good looking person.

 

[jd_uk]

Sometimes I think not at any age. We all ave 'the selfish gene' and if we try to deviate from our natural instincts too much we'll get screwed over.

I know from experience you can be nice to people every day and very rarely will it be appreciated. Some will, most wont.

In the case of women, because you mentioned it...they don't typically get turned on by nice behaviour and will more often than not see it as weakness and reject you/even dislike you for it. Even if that is just how you are with everyone they will assume supplication. Rarely will you find a woman not like that (at least until you get to know her much better).

I'd say overall it doesn't pay to be nice at any age, but if it makes you feel good then do it because that is all that matters. Occasionally you may just pick up someone really worth knowing who does appreciate your 'niceness' and maybe they might be worth it.

 

[Focus Fiend]

I am a good person because thats who I am, not because I want it to pay. Don't get me wrong, I was born a good person, I strayed way off course in my early twenties, than made it back to reality luckily. I was never violent though.

 

[nimbus]

good person = ?

i guess for most peoples' definitions, it pays to be a good person around other good people. if you find yourself getting burned, it just means you need to associate with better people.

the optimal society is one where everyone is a good person. if everyone was a bad person the world would be a complete shithole and nothing nice or worthwhile would exist

 

[shirlene29]

I try to be a good person and get continually kicked in the teeth

enough so that in...oh 6 or so days ...my medic license expires..and I'm letting it
It would take me just shy of two years to get it back after that


fuck people

 

[EnderJE]

I think that it pays for me to be a good person. However, I also get to re-define what a "good person" is.

 

[the_alcatraz]

it pays to be a good person, but it depends to what extent you commit yourself. Also if you are expecting something in return automatically, then it's not neccessarily an unselfish act.

the thing is being selective of who you help and how much. someone who's undeserving or ungrateful or just lazy..doesn't deserve a great deal of help.

This.

 

[mrplunkey]

It does pay to be a good person.

But not due to some bullshit eastern religion karma reason. And not for some self-indulgent, attention-seeking pseudo-selfish reason.

The real reason is rooted in practicality. We evolved as social cooperative creatures. Meaningful, collaborative social interaction makes our brains work better and increases our collective productivity, both of which are highly beneficial.

Now STFU!

 

[PICK3]

Meaningful, collaborative social interaction makes our brains work better and increases our collective

you have to curb your Lifetime Network viewing a bit

just sayin'



btw, I'm guessing me busting a nut and then making the bitch walk home doesn't fit your definition of "Meaningful, collaborative social interaction"

 

[the_alcatraz]

you have to curb your Lifetime Network viewing a bit

just sayin'



btw, I'm guessing me busting a nut and then making the bitch walk home doesn't fit your definition of "Meaningful, collaborative social interaction"

by bitch you mean Caucasian male

 

[PICK3]

by bitch you mean Caucasian male

racist!

 

[the_alcatraz]

racist!

african canadian?

 

[-SD-]

It does pay to be a good person.

But not due to some bullshit eastern religion karma reason. And not for some self-indulgent, attention-seeking pseudo-selfish reason.

The real reason is rooted in practicality. We evolved as social cooperative creatures. Meaningful, collaborative social interaction makes our brains work better and increases our collective productivity, both of which are highly beneficial.

Now STFU!

Teh Jacket is benevolent and giving to all who would ask for it's bounty.

 

[diedeadEnough]

being real and being a good person are really important to me. the problem is most ppl arent. 90% of the ppl i know are disrespectful liars who throw garbage on the ground and fuck their best friends gf's and bf's and only care about themselves. it definitly pays off to be a good person

 

[cryptosporidium]

intuition says yes. existentialism says.. lolz

it may not pay in this lifetime, but who cares anyway? why is everyone so hung up on being happy and fulfilled. bunch of pussies if you ask me.

 

[puddlemonkey]

assholes FTW!!!




in before LB's psychobabble!

 

[Sub-Zero]

youre either a good person or you arnt

also many people have different feelings on what constitutes a good person.

you could be the best person and the world and your endeavors be unappreciated because you arnt the best person, in that other persons eyes, so they take advantage of you, or abuse you, or get sick of you

you just gotta find people whose opinions on good person fall in line with yours

anyways i know tons of good people, who do bad stuff, and some bad people who have really come through in certain situations. i know some people who are very selfless and kind and never ask anything in return. i dont know what they get out of it, but maybe they are just so happy they have enough energy/resources to dish some of that happyness out to others

it annoys me when some people forget to think of others, and therefore hurt them with their actions, but i fucking DESPISE people who purposefully abuse/use other people for personal gain even though they know they are going to fuck that person over. it pays to not be that, because as people find out you are, you get cut the fuck off and will be lonely and or beaten to death. i spot these people by how well they can keep "long term friends". if someone changes social circles every couple months, without maintaining a close relationship with even one for the long term, chances are they suck

 

[mrplunkey]

you have to curb your Lifetime Network viewing a bit

just sayin'



btw, I'm guessing me busting a nut and then making the bitch walk home doesn't fit your definition of "Meaningful, collaborative social interaction"

Busting a nut is by definition "meaningful, collaborative social interaction." Duh.

But of course you wouldn't know that. You know as much about slaying poon as you do about designing nuclear reactors.

 

[mrplunkey]

Teh Jacket is benevolent and giving to all who would ask for it's bounty.

Teh sweater serves the same purpose from me.

All come share in its goodness.

 

[trex74]

intuition says yes. existentialism says.. lolz

it may not pay in this lifetime, but who cares anyway? why is everyone so hung up on being happy and fulfilled. bunch of pussies if you ask me.

This.
I think it may be a condition of First World countries to expect to be happy all your life.
I have met some cantankerous a-holes who contribute so much to society. Much more than someone who lives to be happy and feel good about themselves because they think they are a "good" person.
Sometimes "good" is making the hard choices, the unpopular choices that many people would say were not good at all.

 

[nimbus]

This.
I think it may be a condition of First World countries to expect to be happy all your life.
I have met some cantankerous a-holes who contribute so much to society. Much more than someone who lives to be happy and feel good about themselves because they think they are a "good" person.
Sometimes "good" is making the hard choices, the unpopular choices that many people would say were not good at all.

the pursuit of happiness is acting in what we perceive to be the optimal fashion. if we ignore what we feel is best, then taken to an extreme, we act completely arbitrarily and die too young to reproduce because we'll just stop eating or randomly walk out into the middle of the street

happiness is absolutely essential for the survival of sentient creatures.

 

[B0ARDIN087]

lol i'm surprised by your answers here. i expected a whole lot of of course not stfu. but i forgot that everyone here is so benevolent or at least faux benevolent

 

[JarheadChiro]

I try to be a good person but, now ONLY to a certain extent.

Will I loan any money, nope no more.

Will I help you move? If I show up and your not packed or have done nothing to prepare and if I'm the only one helping or doing any work, well bye.

Will I give someone directions, sure.

Will I let you know your taillight is out, maybe.

Seems as though helping gives me a sense that I wasted time in my life, not that I feel good about it anymore.

 

[Ezekiel]

Does it pay to be a good person

If you're looking to be repayed for being "good" then you're not doing it for the right reasons, therefore, you're not "good". Treating ppl w/ respect irregardless of whether or not they deserve it is it's own reward. Anyone can love the likable. It's been done. The trick is to love those whom you find it hard to even like.

Karma
You reap what you sow.
what comes around goes around.
Etc..

Blessings,

 

[solarclimax]

Most people who think they're good aren't good. I have a job, pay my taxes and take care of my family so therefore i'm a good person <--- this is definitely not a good person.

I don't look down on others just because of their misfortunes. I don't think i'm better than othrs just because i was lucky enough to have a better job, life whatever. I feel sad that some people are homeless, starving, disease ridden etc and others are very wealthy enjoying their wealth with selfishness. I don't make the pathetic excuse that those people put themselves there and i earned what i have so that makes it ok for me to look down my nose at those people. I see all people as equals who should deserve equal respect, i try to be compassionate towards people -
not quick to judge and cold (got no time for them attitude). <----- this is a candidate for a good person.

 

[RottenWillow]

I guarantee you it does pay to be a 'good' person. Most people are deceived into thinking their life will be worse if they do, but thats not The Truth. I am guided by an inner voice, a conscience. I dont always listen; but in general I try. Do you not have a conscience? What do you do that makes you think you are 'not a good person'? How are you 'fucked' when you try to do the right thing?

I guess it just depends on your situation. I think its pays to be a good person at any age but I dont know the story

cindy I've observed something like a karmic version of Newton's 3rd law of motion (the equal and opposite reaction one) which seems to govern our behavior.

When I do something I know is a bit shady, even if it's just something like keeping it when a cashier gives you too much change, I end up somehow incurring an unexpected expense pretty soon afterward or having something inconvenient or unpleasant happen to me.

I've observed this for so long and in such consistency I'm personally convinced. This type of thing could certainly be endlessly argued by a skeptic though, and I certainly have no interest in trying to persuade anyone.

 

[Sub-Zero]

This.
I think it may be a condition of First World countries to expect to be happy all your life.
I have met some cantankerous a-holes who contribute so much to society. Much more than someone who lives to be happy and feel good about themselves because they think they are a "good" person.
Sometimes "good" is making the hard choices, the unpopular choices that many people would say were not good at all.

why not just kill yourself then?

the happyness is a mental condition, and settling for anything less just makes you a fuckin moron.

sometimes there are lows, to the highs, but if your overall outlook is unhappy, u should prob killself

 

[shirlene29]

youre either a good person or you arnt

also many people have different feelings on what constitutes a good person.

you could be the best person and the world and your endeavors be unappreciated because you arnt the best person, in that other persons eyes, so they take advantage of you, or abuse you, or get sick of you

you just gotta find people whose opinions on good person fall in line with yours

anyways i know tons of good people, who do bad stuff, and some bad people who have really come through in certain situations. i know some people who are very selfless and kind and never ask anything in return. i dont know what they get out of it, but maybe they are just so happy they have enough energy/resources to dish some of that happyness out to others

it annoys me when some people forget to think of others, and therefore hurt them with their actions, but i fucking DESPISE people who purposefully abuse/use other people for personal gain even though they know they are going to fuck that person over. it pays to not be that, because as people find out you are, you get cut the fuck off and will be lonely and or beaten to death. i spot these people by how well they can keep "long term friends". if someone changes social circles every couple months, without maintaining a close relationship with even one for the long term, chances are they suck

mostly I think subz should just STFU...but this is a pretty good post and about sums up what I think on the subject too


also....in for karmic theory on it too

 

[SpyWizard]

It's a term called "acidic personalities"

just say no.. life is too short to dance with ugly people... apply that to all things and soon you will either be very alone, or the people you do share your life with will in turn (because the are much like you) will enrich your life..

 

[ceo]

If it does...how much does it pay? and are they hiring?

 

[BBR100]

What goes around comes around.

 

[jd_uk]

interesting how it always seems that it's the females believing in karma and the like..

One thing I've noticed is that people who become depressed tend to be good people. The sort of people who care. The bad people tend to not give a f*ck anyway and are usually so stupid that the stupidness of the rest of the world doesn't depress them.

 

[musclemom]

One thing I've noticed is that people who become depressed tend to be good people. The sort of people who care. The bad people tend to not give a f*ck anyway and are usually so stupid that the stupidness of the rest of the world doesn't depress them.

I have to say I agree with you.

When you are a truly "Good" person (and that whole phrase is very fuzzy), but when you truly care, and you do good because it comes from the heart, when you are trusting, are compassionate and empathetic, it gets to the point where shit eats you up. In all honesty, when you are "truly good" people take advantage of you a LOT (not just money, either, they'll hit you up for favors, they'll ask to crash on your couch, they'll eat your food and drink your booze and never bring any over, they'll hit you up for car rides and never pitch in for gas, they'll pawn off their kids or pets on you ... you get the point). However, you can't operate from your heart center on a part time basis.

So a lot of really kind people get to the point that they avoid other people entirely, saying no is very, very hard, but not trusting is impossible, assuming the worst in a person's nature feels ugly. You get to the point where all you want to do is crawl in bed and hide.

Being successful financially generally requires you to make some ruthless decisions so its rare that you find very, very successful people who are selfless and kind.

 

[Strongbow]

LOLZ @PhyshoBlahBlahBlah Bullshit

 

[musclemom]

LOLZ @PhyshoBlahBlahBlah Bullshit

Any possibility of rephrasing that in English?

I'm afraid I haven't figured out how to turn on the Delusionally Egocentric Idiot Translator feature on FireFox.

 

[SpyWizard]

I have to say I agree with you.

When you are a truly "Good" person (and that whole phrase is very fuzzy), but when you truly care, and you do good because it comes from the heart, when you are trusting, are compassionate and empathetic, it gets to the point where shit eats you up. In all honesty, when you are "truly good" people take advantage of you a LOT (not just money, either, they'll hit you up for favors, they'll ask to crash on your couch, they'll eat your food and drink your booze and never bring any over, they'll hit you up for car rides and never pitch in for gas, they'll pawn off their kids or pets on you ... you get the point). However, you can't operate from your heart center on a part time basis.

So a lot of really kind people get to the point that they avoid other people entirely, saying no is very, very hard, but not trusting is impossible, assuming the worst in a person's nature feels ugly. You get to the point where all you want to do is crawl in bed and hide.

Being successful financially generally requires you to make some ruthless decisions so its rare that you find very, very successful people who are selfless and kind.

And see I don't find that to be true at all... as a mater of note, there is only one person that I know personally that was financially successful and an asshole.. and he was an attorney, so i chock that up to his profession.

but again, i avoid people, or rather I don't let them get close..

when i say close, i seek their counsel, they eat supper with me, and we laugh together..

 

[Strongbow]

Any possibility of rephrasing that in English?

I'm afraid I haven't figured out how to turn on the Delusionally Egocentric Idiot Translator feature on FireFox.

LOLZ you will find that insults get you no where with me, cause I could generally care less about your put downs or any other mental patient on this board. But translation is that it does not mean you have to be a door mat to be a good person, I would give you the shirt off my back if it would help you or anybody else out, i would also slap the shit of anybody who disrespected me or tried to make an ass out of me without cause too, does that make me a bad person. I really don't think so. And I could care less if any of you peeps, thought it did.

 

[musclemom]

And see I don't find that to be true at all... as a mater of note, there is only one person that I know personally that was financially successful and an asshole.. and he was an attorney, so i chock that up to his profession.

but again, i avoid people, or rather I don't let them get close..

when i say close, i seek their counsel, they eat supper with me, and we laugh together..

Where did I say they had to be an asshole? I said "Ruthless," big difference.

There is not ONE successful business-person I've ever known who isn't at least a little ruthless. You have to be. You cannot be nice and be a success because just as in life, if you are a nice business person, you get taken advantage of and eventually you will go down.

Maybe they compartmentalize and are nice people in general, but you can't operate purely from the heart, be completely kind, empathetic and trusting and succeed in any business.

 

[Strongbow]

On second thought I am deeply offended at being called an idiot and feel as if I must report this post. LOLZ











J/K

 

[WODIN]

It pays if you think it pays. It doesn't pay if you don't think it pays. Karma is nothing more than you do something, there you are. Our westernized notion of karma being a boomerang of activities in some form of balance is purely drawn from western thought. In the strictest definition of the word, karma simply means that which is done, nothing more or less. We can all find strings and patterns in anything if we search long enough it's part of being human.

 

[musclemom]

On second thought I am deeply offended at being called an idiot and feel as if I must report this post. LOLZ

J/K

I wasn't, kidding that is.

You're beginning to get on my nerves.

 

[Strongbow]

I wasn't, kidding that is.

You're beginning to get on my nerves.

LOLZ, Well Ditto Sista. Put me on ignore, plain and simple, use the forum tools to yo advantage.

 

[Jocques Straap]

I helped push a broke down mid 2000's model F-150 off the main street today into an alley. 3-5min of my time, spent helping a couple older folks in stress. Probably the most rewarding moments of my day.

 

[BBR100]

I helped push a broke down mid 2000's model F-150 off the main street today into an alley. 3-5min of my time, spent helping a couple older folks in stress. Probably the most rewarding moments of my day.

This is the payoff. It comes from within.
If the motivation for being a "good person" is for gratitude or financial compensation it doesn't work.

 

[mrplunkey]

I have to say I agree with you.

When you are a truly "Good" person (and that whole phrase is very fuzzy), but when you truly care, and you do good because it comes from the heart, when you are trusting, are compassionate and empathetic, it gets to the point where shit eats you up. In all honesty, when you are "truly good" people take advantage of you a LOT (not just money, either, they'll hit you up for favors, they'll ask to crash on your couch, they'll eat your food and drink your booze and never bring any over, they'll hit you up for car rides and never pitch in for gas, they'll pawn off their kids or pets on you ... you get the point). However, you can't operate from your heart center on a part time basis.

So a lot of really kind people get to the point that they avoid other people entirely, saying no is very, very hard, but not trusting is impossible, assuming the worst in a person's nature feels ugly. You get to the point where all you want to do is crawl in bed and hide.

Being successful financially generally requires you to make some ruthless decisions so its rare that you find very, very successful people who are selfless and kind.

I disagree with this!

 

[-SD-]

I disagree with this!

bleeding heart panzy libtard alert!!!!!!!1111

 

[nefertiti]

I have to say I agree with you.

When you are a truly "Good" person (and that whole phrase is very fuzzy), but when you truly care, and you do good because it comes from the heart, when you are trusting, are compassionate and empathetic, it gets to the point where shit eats you up. In all honesty, when you are "truly good" people take advantage of you a LOT (not just money, either, they'll hit you up for favors, they'll ask to crash on your couch, they'll eat your food and drink your booze and never bring any over, they'll hit you up for car rides and never pitch in for gas, they'll pawn off their kids or pets on you ... you get the point). However, you can't operate from your heart center on a part time basis.

Dont agree here.

With a request for forgiveness of pride, I've gotta say I am someone who gives and gives and constantly gets taken advantage of.

The thing is, when I give I HONESTLY seek nothing in return. So getting nothing does not burn me. There is a difference between being good and being an enabler. One can say no to someone and still be doing the good thing. Being good doesn't mean instant compliance...It means making the right choice in that moment....even if that choice is no.

There will always be people looking to take advantage of goodness. There will always be temptation on the other side. It's all about motivation. If you are good because it is how you want to be, no amount of burning will deter you. If you do things for gratification, yes there will be burnouts.

 

[-SD-]

bunch of filosofizers and shit up in this piece.

 

[PICK3]

I never turn my back on people in need ... I don't go out of my way to find people in need = [HUMAN][FAIL]PICK3[/HUMAN][/FAIL]

 

[-SD-]

I never turn my back on people in need ... I don't go out of my way to find people in need = [HUMAN][FAIL]PICK3[/HUMAN][/FAIL]

paypal me some cash rob, sounds like you need a little self redemption

 

[PICK3]

paypal me some cash rob, sounds like you need a little self redemption

custom exhaust + motorcycle = [MONEY][ADEQUATE]Superdave[/MONEY][/ADEQUATE]

 

[Sub-Zero]

most people who claim to be amazing selfless people, who expect nothing in return, and are always taken advantage of, are probably not nearly as awsome and pure as they view themselves...

its the people that dont call attention to their goodness that are truely good people.

such as pauly D

 

[-SD-]

custom exhaust + motorcycle = [MONEY][ADEQUATE]Superdave[/MONEY][/ADEQUATE]

money adequate= [UNEMPLOYMENT_BENEFITS]superdave[/UNEMPLOYMENT_BENEFITS]

 

[musclemom]

Dont agree here.

With a request for forgiveness of pride, I've gotta say I am someone who gives and gives and constantly gets taken advantage of.

The thing is, when I give I HONESTLY seek nothing in return. So getting nothing does not burn me. There is a difference between being good and being an enabler. One can say no to someone and still be doing the good thing. Being good doesn't mean instant compliance...It means making the right choice in that moment....even if that choice is no.

There will always be people looking to take advantage of goodness. There will always be temptation on the other side. It's all about motivation. If you are good because it is how you want to be, no amount of burning will deter you. If you do things for gratification, yes there will be burnouts.

You're probably right, and perhaps the edges of being kind versus being an enabler are difficult for some of us to discern.

I always committed "random acts of kindness" without the expectation of kindness in return. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is when people not only take advantage of kindness but then to learn they found it amusing that I was such a gullible idiot. In their minds, I was eating all the shit they were feeding me and asking for more.

From the time I was born until my early 30s the most important people in my life, the ones I should have been able to trust and feel safe with (I'm talking parent, in-laws, spouse) lived by the mantra that "he who fucks the other guy over first, wins." A philosophy that was applied equally to everybody they encountered, family included. In fact, the people they "loved" were usually the ones whose weaknesses they knew the best so fucking over family and loved ones who weren't on constant guard was like shooting fish in a barrel for them.

No friends or work associates have hurt me as deeply as some of my closest family members and in-laws have. Pretty easy to get a new job or cut friends out of your life. All you can do with some relatives is wait until they die.

 

[Strongbow]

I am amazed you guys actually think about shit this deeply.

 

[jaimejame78]

Being "a good person" ultimately turned me into a human door mat. I went through a period that I thought being that good person meant I had to help to fix ALL their problems. Now I think it is more about being an honest person that keeps your word. But that doesn't mean I won't slap a beotch. lol

 

[Strongbow]

Being "a good person" ultimately turned me into a human door mat. I went through a period that I thought being that good person meant I had to help to fix ALL their problems. Now I think it is more about being an honest person that keeps your word. But that doesn't mean I won't slap a beotch. lol

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[musclemom]

I am amazed you guys actually think about shit this deeply.

I envy people who don't dwell on shit, honestly. However, a person's brain works the way it does. There are those who dwell and think and meditate and pray and those who don't care about anything beyond what they can see/feel/touch. Neither is more right.

 

[cryptosporidium]

the pursuit of happiness is acting in what we perceive to be the optimal fashion. if we ignore what we feel is best, then taken to an extreme, we act completely arbitrarily and die too young to reproduce because we'll just stop eating or randomly walk out into the middle of the street

happiness is absolutely essential for the survival of sentient creatures.

lol, i hope you realize what total horseshit this is. "happiness" is an entirely subjective human concept and not required for biological function.

 

[cryptosporidium]

I envy people who don't dwell on shit, honestly. However, a person's brain works the way it does. There are those who dwell and think and meditate and pray and those who don't care about anything beyond what they can see/feel/touch. Neither is more right.

only in moments of weakness do i envy the ignorant. the majority of the time, i wouldnt trade my level of awareness and hardship for the comfort it would bring.

 

[cindylou]

lol, i hope you realize what total horseshit this is. "happiness" is an entirely subjective human concept and not required for biological function.

What gets people through tough times? The WILL to live? What is it that makes one holocaust survior live while others give up and die? Value based happiness (not feel good happiness) is essential for us (imo) if we want to survive should something happen to destroy the distractions from what we DO/should value..

 

[BlueBird]

lol, i hope you realize what total horseshit this is. "happiness" is an entirely subjective human concept and not required for biological function.

I'm thinking Nimbus means 'sentient' in the occidental sense. No, happiness is not *needed* for any biological function, but you cannot deny that happiness changes some aspects of body chemistry for the better. Also the word, happiness, yes, is a human construct, but I guarantee other mammals feel joy. I know my pup expresses so when his tummy is rubbed.

For the record, I do believe humans should experience the whole spectrum of emotions, if only to help them emphathize with others.

 

[cryptosporidium]

What gets people through tough times? The WILL to live? What is it that makes one holocaust survior live while others give up and die? Value based happiness (not feel good happiness) is essential for us (imo) if we want to survive should something happen to destroy the distractions from what we DO/should value..

yeah, the will to live, survival instinct, and hope all have more to do with hard times than happiness does. what is the difference between value based happiness and feel good happiness? and where does contentment fit into this schema?

i hardly think that a striving for happiness embodies the same objective goal for someone imprisoned in a death camp.

 

[PICK3]

I envy people who don't dwell on shit

I get fixated on teh poon

 

[cindylou]

I meant to quote you crypto

Feel good happiness = biological. alcohol, sex, etc. Temporary happiness. 'Going out and having a good time' , physical happiness
Value based happines = the mind or spiritual ; goal oriented. The non physical

The WILL to live. What is the point of living? Meaning gives us the will to live.

What kinds of meaning or goal would help someone survive a death camp? Whatever makes life meaningful for that person. A duty to help others? The hope of seeing children? The goal of getting back to work? Being able to appreciate beauty?

Those kinds of happiness, the kind that give meaning to life, giving their suffering a purpose; are what keep people alive. Those who had none are likely lose all inner strength and give up and die.

 

[cryptosporidium]

im not saying that i dont think "spiritual harmony" or "happiness" however you may define it doesnt promote quality of life; i just wouldnt say that its a requirement.

other than that, its essence lies in semantics.

 

[nimbus]

lol, i hope you realize what total horseshit this is. "happiness" is an entirely subjective human concept and not required for biological function.

it's not horseshit man, happiness is what guides our actions

evolution has shaped our species such that actions that bring us happiness correlate with actions that bring us survival.

if starving didn't bring us unhappiness, and food didn't bring us happiness, we wouldn't eat and would die

if injury didn't bring us unhappiness, or interfere with activities that bring us happiness, we wouldn't avoid it and would die

if life didn't bring us happiness, we'd kill ourselves because otherwise all we are left with is a world of either pain or nothing.

 

[cryptosporidium]

it's not horseshit man, happiness is what guides our actions

evolution has shaped our species such that actions that bring us happiness correlate with actions that bring us survival.

if starving didn't bring us unhappiness, and food didn't bring us happiness, we wouldn't eat and would die

if injury didn't bring us unhappiness, or interfere with activities that bring us happiness, we wouldn't avoid it and would die

if life didn't bring us happiness, we'd kill ourselves because otherwise all we are left with is a world of either pain or nothing.

i dont define such things as happiness and unhappiness.

i consider them mechanistic.

whats wrong with a world of nothing?

whats wrong with pratītyasamutpāda?

 

[samoth]

This is a philosophical question mankind has been examining for millenia. I doubt we'll get any further with the topic in this thread.

If you want to get ahead in today's world, the answer is probably no.

If you do so in accords with your own moral or ethical beliefs, then the answer is probably yes.

Life tends to fall somewhere between these two, however. A thorough definition of 'pay' would be necessary as well -- everyone has a different interpretation of that term.

 

[PICK3]

If you do so in accords with your own moral or ethical beliefs, then the answer is probably yes.

^^^
this

it pays if you perceive being a "good person" is noble

the true answer is as elusive as a theoretical physics postulate

 

[samoth]

^^^
this

it pays if you perceive being a "good person" is noble

the true answer is as elusive as a theoretical physics postulate

Disagree -- morals and ethics are dynamic and changing, ever-evolving through time and space. What was acceptable 200 years ago is not now, and what one culture/religion/government preaches for, another one preaches against. There exists no absolute truth, no dispositive answer.

I recently found that my efforts at being a good person were actually having the opposite effect on another person. I suppose an important first step is finding out what common ground and what differences exist among people/groups with respect to 'good' and 'pay', and working from there.

Conversely, kingdoms and empires tend to form when one party pursues what they believe to be for the better 'good' against another party pushing their 'good'... perhaps these differences are what moves the world foward; what makes us human.

 

[PICK3]

Disagree -- morals and ethics are dynamic and changing, ever-evolving through time and space.

Agree -- and your personal morals and ethics are dynamic and every changing (to some degree) as you experience personal growth throughout your life.

 

[cryptosporidium]

wutever im a ghost

 

[iggy]

This is a philosophical question mankind has been examining for millenia. I doubt we'll get any further with the topic in this thread.

If you want to get ahead in today's world, the answer is probably no.

If you do so in accords with your own moral or ethical beliefs, then the answer is probably yes.

Life tends to fall somewhere between these two, however. A thorough definition of 'pay' would be necessary as well -- everyone has a different interpretation of that term.

This.
It stems down to your own definition of a "good person". "Doing the right thing" isn't always the right thing to do.

Try and put everyone else before yourself and your own goals in this day and age. You'll end up being a loser......

"The Strongest Shall Survive"

 

[nimbus]

i dont define such things as happiness and unhappiness.

i consider them mechanistic.

whats wrong with a world of nothing?

whats wrong with pratītyasamutpāda?

i dont really know what that is except that it's buddhist. and isn't the end goal buddhism nirvana aka bliss?

 

[cryptosporidium]

i dont really know what that is except that it's buddhist. and isn't the end goal buddhism nirvana aka bliss?

pratītyasamutpāda refers to the dependent co-arising of conditions and happiness. the state of happiness depends on certain conditions. this premise leads one to discover that happiness is empty.

nirvana is escape from suffering caused by the cycle of birth, death and rebirth.

the topic is simple and complex at the same time, thats why i said "whats wrong with a world of nothing?" i just thought id be pragmatic and rephrase it.

so whats wrong with a world of nothingness?

 

[nimbus]

pratītyasamutpāda refers to the dependent co-arising of conditions and happiness. the state of happiness depends on certain conditions. this premise leads one to discover that happiness is empty.

nirvana is escape from suffering caused by the cycle of birth, death and rebirth.

the topic is simple and complex at the same time, thats why i said "whats wrong with a world of nothing?" i just thought id be pragmatic and rephrase it.

so whats wrong with a world of nothingness?

nothing is inherently wrong with it, but i prefer the world as it is because i want to enjoy positive mental states and cannot have those in a world of nothingness

 

[cryptosporidium]

nothing is inherently wrong with it, but i prefer the world as it is because i crave positive mental states and cannot have those in a world of nothingness

by that rationale, in a world of nothingness you cant have negative mental states either.

however, in reality a world of nothingness doesnt actually prevent anything.

if you can make sense of that, i will give you k

 

[nimbus]

by that rationale, in a world of nothingness you cant have negative mental states either.

however, in reality a world of nothingness doesnt actually prevent anything.

if you can make sense of that, i will give you k

well since we probably haven't yet reached an agreement regarding the definition of nothingness, i think it's a little premature to start being intentionally vague or cryptic.

i was using world of nothingness to refer to the condition of being devoid of any mental state and thus losing the ability to enjoy life

 

[cryptosporidium]

im not being intentionally vague or cryptic.

i was going by your original statement..

if life didn't bring us happiness, we'd kill ourselves because otherwise all we are left with is a world of either pain or nothing.

i would think that pain could lead to suicide, but not nothingness.

nothing is inherently wrong with it, but i prefer the world as it is because i want to enjoy positive mental states and cannot have those in a world of nothingness

maybe you should explore that further

cessation of all mental function isnt a life that either of us can relate to.. so thats not the definition i was using.

 

[puddlemonkey]

settle down you two

 

[nimbus]

i would think that pain could lead to suicide, but not nothingness.

perpetual nothingness would not lead to suicide, but it would result in premature death because without positive/negative states one would not be compelled strongly enough to persistently seek food/shelter and avoid injury

 

[nimbus]

which ties into the main premise of my initial argument, which is that the survival of our species is currently impossible without the pursuit the happiness, barring intervention from a greater being.

as far as i can tell nobody has yet to argue convincingly otherwise

 

[cryptosporidium]

yeah i disagreed with that.

biological function and instinct are independent from subjective happiness. unless youre defining happiness as something other than the traditional term.

i can fuck, find food and be a miserable son of a bitch just fine.

 

[puddlemonkey]

i can fuck, find food and be a miserable son of a bitch just fine.

your ex-girlfriend disagrees with the fuck part

 

[nimbus]

yeah i disagreed with that.

biological function and instinct are independent from subjective happiness. unless youre defining happiness as something other than the traditional term.

i can fuck, find food and be a miserable son of a bitch just fine.

biological function (i'm assuming you mean like metabolism and gametogensis?) and instinct are, but not biological drives or higher reasoning.

finding food requires more than just instinct and simple biological functioning. to find food, you must choose to obtain it because you don't want to be hungry anymore and desire the satisfaction of eating. some sort of higher reasoning is also often involved for humans because we can't just go hunting every time we're hungry; we need to incorporate some sort planning for either accumulating food or resources with which to obtain food. if you did not care to improve your mental state, you wouldn't bother dealing with all this

 

[layinback]

A DAMNED GOOD ARGUEMENT TO SUPPORT "IT PAYS TO BE A GOOD PERSON."


For this pupose, happiness can be defined as contentment. Contentment is simply having what one wants and wanting what one has. Contentment can't be achieved through
exogenous sources. Drugs, sex, fame and fortune can only provide a temporary contentment and there's usually a commensurate deflation. It seems that this "contentment" must
come from within us. This is not to say that loved ones, financial success and the like, can't add to our contentment and further enrich our lives. It simply means that external
factors are not the source of our happiness. Anybody's personal experience will confirm this.

We've established that being content is an acceptable definition for happiness and furthermore, this happiness must not be dependent on external factors, but rather it must
emanate from within us. Can you be content if you've treated people unfairly? Can you be content if you've cheated, stolen or otherwise defauded someone? Can you be content
if you've commited an unprovoked act of violence against another person. can you be content if you've cheated on your spouse \ significant other? Even if no one else saw you
do it, you know the truth.

If at the end of every day, you can honestly say that you've treated peeps the way you want to be treated and if not, that you are willing to make amends to them, you'll be happy.
This doesn't mean that you become a doormat or a kiss ass. Sometimes it means telling people what they don't want to hear, but what they need to hear. sometimes it means
holding peeps accountable and not acting like a bitch when you're held accountable. Sarte said we are doomed to be free............. how true.