Diet advice - Lean Mass from Tren

[cobracock1979]

Hi Bros,

Im on a Tren150/ Winny/ Prop Cycle (second cycle). Im 6ft, 190lbs, BF15% and been liftin about 8 years. On cycle 11 days now.

Im looking to gain solid lean mass from the tren on a high proten/ low carb diet (no carbs after 4pm). I have been drinking a lot of milk but have had to cut it due to bloat.

I normally eat pretty clean anyway, but Im wondering if I need more Calories (im on about 3000 now). Heres a typical day

7am - proten shake+ (milk +2 eggs+banana+oats+ peanut butter)

8.30am Bagel+cottage cheese

10am 100g Beef

12pm 100g turkey

1.30 am Chicken sandwhich

3pm Chicken breast

5pm shake (with water)

7.30pm (after training) shake(with water) + tuna salad

9pm 6 boiled eggs (only eat 2 yokes)

10.30pm - shake with water


I know there is probably too much whey in there but work in an office and struggle to eat whole foods constantly. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Basically I want to know if I need to increase cals/ carbs - from what I know my current diet should build good lean mass whilst cutting on tren.

 

[GUARDIAN]

The one thing I noticed is the 2 places u mention your serving size of 100g of beef and turkey. That seems low. Try to get 6-8oz of meat (170-226grams).

Looks like u r on a keto diet. I am not seeing any carbs really other than your bagel and sandwich. I hope u r taking vitamins and fiber to replace the veggies.

 

[cobracock1979]

The one thing I noticed is the 2 places u mention your serving size of 100g of beef and turkey. That seems low. Try to get 6-8oz of meat (170-226grams).

Looks like u r on a keto diet. I am not seeing any carbs really other than your bagel and sandwich. I hope u r taking vitamins and fiber to replace the veggies.

Thanks Guardian,

Would you say thats a Keto diet - I thought I had enouh carbs in there. Last think I want is to start burning muscle for fuel.

You thing I need more carbs?

 

[GUARDIAN]

Thanks Guardian,

Would you say thats a Keto diet - I thought I had enouh carbs in there. Last think I want is to start burning muscle for fuel.

You thing I need more carbs?

I dont know what your carb count is but if it is 100g or less it is most likely a form of a keto diet. Keto is fine imo for incinerating fat. I think the two most important times for carbs on keto is in the morning and PWO. If u do a keto right by keeping the protein super high and the fats moderately high u will not burn up the muscle. Especially being on gear.

 

[cobracock1979]

I dont know what your carb count is but if it is 100g or less it is most likely a form of a keto diet. Keto is fine imo for incinerating fat. I think the two most important times for carbs on keto is in the morning and PWO. If u do a keto right by keeping the protein super high and the fats moderately high u will not burn up the muscle. Especially being on gear.

Ah,

From what Ive read on a keto you need literally 0 carbs (apart from loading on the weekend) in order to shift metaboliam into keto format. If you have low amounts of carbs you dont shift to the Keto state and start burning muscle instad of fat. Thats my understanding anyway.

May be an idea to add dextrose then to my PWO shake?

 

[perryscoon]

Ah,

From what Ive read on a keto you need literally 0 carbs (apart from loading on the weekend) in order to shift metaboliam into keto format. If you have low amounts of carbs you dont shift to the Keto state and start burning muscle instad of fat. Thats my understanding anyway.

May be an idea to add dextrose then to my PWO shake?

Can someone confirm this?

So, its all or nothing when it comes to keto diet? Low carbs won't switch to keto format?

 

[flexdaddyz71]

I'm a week out from finishing the same cycle. I too, cut all my carbs for the first 4 wks (Mon-Fri) Did extreme cardio sessions. I finally got to the point of total exhaustion 24/7. I started taking in clean carbs everyday. Always before 5PM leaving my last two meals carb-free. The results are insane. Just be careful with the Tren, cause that shit made my nips sore and I had to drop it after 6wks. Up your protein intake should be around 2 to 2.5 grams per your LBM. Good Luck!

 

[cobracock1979]

I'm a week out from finishing the same cycle. I too, cut all my carbs for the first 4 wks (Mon-Fri) Did extreme cardio sessions. I finally got to the point of total exhaustion 24/7. I started taking in clean carbs everyday. Always before 5PM leaving my last two meals carb-free. The results are insane. Just be careful with the Tren, cause that shit made my nips sore and I had to drop it after 6wks. Up your protein intake should be around 2 to 2.5 grams per your LBM. Good Luck!

Nice one flex,

Are you sayin that when you cut carbs your results were much less? How much carbs were you taking in in the first 4 weeks and how much after 4 weeks?

Got dostinex and letro on the way to deal with gyno. No sides from the tren so far.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Can someone confirm this?

So, its all or nothing when it comes to keto diet? Low carbs won't switch to keto format?

Yes it will. Get some keto sticks from the pharmacy and can conduct your own experiment.

 

[rjbodnar62]

CKD diets are generally under 30g-carb/day. TKD is higher because it includes carbs b4 and after ur workout. Unless you are cutting I'm not sure a CKD is optimal for AAS because the weekend insulin spike u get isnt enough to support the amount of muscle growth that can be realized while on.

 

[cobracock1979]

CKD diets are generally under 30g-carb/day. TKD is higher because it includes carbs b4 and after ur workout. Unless you are cutting I'm not sure a CKD is optimal for AAS because the weekend insulin spike u get isnt enough to support the amount of muscle growth that can be realized while on.

Awesome

Check out this link

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=88

Looks like low carbs is ok as long as you have carbs pre/ post workout

 

[flexdaddyz71]

Nice one flex,

Are you sayin that when you cut carbs your results were much less? How much carbs were you taking in in the first 4 weeks and how much after 4 weeks?

Got dostinex and letro on the way to deal with gyno. No sides from the tren so far.

Man! I went low! I never went over 30g in a day. Got my carbs from a 1/4 cup (Dry) Oatmeal every morning. It was pretty much it. I felt horrible, but the tren took care of the rest. Overall, I was depleted throughout the day and was no fun at home. I ended up losing right at 40 pounds of water and fat and gained 5-7 pounds of solid muscle in a 10 week period. I will be posting pics towards the weekend. I got a ot of advice on the gyno issues. I think the win and vit E along with LiquiFem helped put the sides to rest. I still got a tiny lump (smaller than a BB) in my right nip. The tenderness and pain is gone and I'm waiting on some Cabergoline to clear it up. Good luck!

 

[cobracock1979]

Man! I went low! I never went over 30g in a day. Got my carbs from a 1/4 cup (Dry) Oatmeal every morning. It was pretty much it. I felt horrible, but the tren took care of the rest. Overall, I was depleted throughout the day and was no fun at home. I ended up losing right at 40 pounds of water and fat and gained 5-7 pounds of solid muscle in a 10 week period. I will be posting pics towards the weekend. I got a ot of advice on the gyno issues. I think the win and vit E along with LiquiFem helped put the sides to rest. I still got a tiny lump (smaller than a BB) in my right nip. The tenderness and pain is gone and I'm waiting on some Cabergoline to clear it up. Good luck!

Get those pics uploaded ASAP man! Sounds like it worked for you.

I will be keeping my carbs at about 100-120 a day, all before 2pm. Lets see how it goes.

Pct Im using HCG and Nolva - you?

 

[rjbodnar62]

Awesome

Check out this link

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=88

Looks like low carbs is ok as long as you have carbs pre/ post workout

Its a good link, Im just curious as to how AAS affects this equation. I dont think the insulin spike in a carb up weekend is sufficient to sustain growth while on cycle. At least with a TKD you have your pre and post workout carbs.

Think about it. In an anabolic environment on juice, what is the most anabolic hormone, not test, but insulin, it carries the protein to the muscles. So if u r in an enhanced muscle building state, I would think that insulin wud be essential. Any thoughts?

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

Can someone confirm this?

So, its all or nothing when it comes to keto diet? Low carbs won't switch to keto format?

Low carbs do NOT work on keto diet. The idea is to let your body use the healthy fats for energy and protein to spare muscle tissue. By depleting your carb intake to 3 small salads (green leafy vegtables ONLY) AND doing cardio it is easier to burn off body fat. The green leafy vegtables are used to help aid in digestion and add fiber to your diet so you don't have any issues with clogged plumbing.

Once you start keto you will be tired as hell for the first 4-8 days before your body will "kick in" to using fats for energy. Once it does you will actually have more energy than before, at least I did.

No cheat meals for at least the first 15 days. Then 1 cheat meal a week, and yes you can have carbs on this day. You need to be sure the cheat meal is the absolute last meal of the day.

 

[perryscoon]

Low carbs do NOT work on keto diet. The idea is to let your body use the healthy fats for energy and protein to spare muscle tissue. By depleting your carb intake to 3 small salads (green leafy vegtables ONLY) AND doing cardio it is easier to burn off body fat. The green leafy vegtables are used to help aid in digestion and add fiber to your diet so you don't have any issues with clogged plumbing.

Once you start keto you will be tired as hell for the first 4-8 days before your body will "kick in" to using fats for energy. Once it does you will actually have more energy than before, at least I did.

No cheat meals for at least the first 15 days. Then 1 cheat meal a week, and yes you can have carbs on this day. You need to be sure the cheat meal is the absolute last meal of the day.

Thanks for the info. So, whats the point of going low carbs if your body doesn't kick into keto mode?

 

[rjbodnar62]

Increased Insulin sensitivity.

 

[GUARDIAN]

No offense bro but what do u think those green leafy veggies are? Carbs. Hence you are on a low carb diet = keto.

You can achieve ketosis as high as 100gr of carbs in my experience. And obviously lower as well.

Low carbs do NOT work on keto diet.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Thanks for the info. So, whats the point of going low carbs if your body doesn't kick into keto mode?

I think he is incorrect. By depleting your carb stores your body has to look for alternative sources of fuel. If you keep your protein high and fats moderately high you can spare muscle from being used (the presence of aas certainly helps stay anabolic.).

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

No offense bro but what do u think those green leafy veggies are? Carbs. Hence you are on a low carb diet = keto.

You can achieve ketosis as high as 100gr of carbs in my experience. And obviously lower as well.

No offense taken. I should have stated no STARCHY carbs. (oatmeal, rice (white your favorite), pasta, potatoes, yams) I personally can NOT function with ANY carbs other than leafy veggies.

Besides after you helped out with this I did a ton of research and used past experinces to change up what I was previously doing. So no offense taken at all, this is what works for me.

 

[GUARDIAN]

That is the best way to do things. Take advice, do research, and make things your own based on HOW YOUR BODY responds. What works for me wont work for everyone.

No offense taken. I should have stated no STARCHY carbs. (oatmeal, rice (white your favorite), pasta, potatoes, yams) I personally can NOT function with ANY carbs other than leafy veggies.

Besides after you helped out with this I did a ton of research and used past experinces to change up what I was previously doing. So no offense taken at all, this is what works for me.

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

That is the best way to do things. Take advice, do research, and make things your own based on HOW YOUR BODY responds. What works for me wont work for everyone.

Does this mean we're friends again?

 

[perryscoon]

OKay thats what I thought because I have been going low carbs for a few months now and there is no doubt its been keeping the fat off.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Does this mean we're friends again?

pfffft....i dont know now.....lol

 

[cobracock1979]

pfffft....i dont know now.....lol

LOL,

Thanks Guardian + Chocolate for the advice.

I just ordered some Ketostix off ebay - cheap as chips and will allow me to see exactly where my metabolism's at. Lets experiment...

 

[GUARDIAN]

LOL,

Thanks Guardian + Chocolate for the advice.

I just ordered some Ketostix off ebay - cheap as chips and will allow me to see exactly where my metabolism's at. Lets experiment...

we are all individuals and u will quickly find out at what level u need to be without guessing. Let us know how things work out.