desperately seeking.....more answers...

[mikki(hbdywi)]

I just read the post "help for all beginners" and it is awesome
Altho i am still frustrated and confused....Tuesday was my one-year anniversary of being back in the gym after about 5 years.
I have changed EVERYTHING about the way i live in the last year and yet my clothes are getting tighter and i am getting FATTER.
I just don't understand...doing everything "right" and i can't fit into clothes that were fine, if not loose a year ago when my diet consisted of pretty much anything i wanted whenever i wanted(overeat/undereat, etc)...liquid intake consisted of diet coke and beer for the most part. Exercise was something i "used to do" or did once in a while.....
My lowest bodyfat reading ever was about 18% and that was without exercising and now i am at about 22-23% if not more WITH eating 5-6 times a day, lifting, and doing cardio.
I have no problem building muscle and common sense tells me that muscle burns fat.
i would think that after a year something would "give"...and not just the seams on my jeans LOL
My boyfriend keeps telling me that "you are getting older"...uhm...i am only 31 and i doubt my body just decided "oh hell i am over 30 better go to shit".
Is it all just catching up???
In the last few months i have cut out dairy, processed carbs, sugar, and high GI carbs.
I eat enough "good fat" (udos oil and nat PB), enough chicken to cluck, black beans, brown rice, asparagus, broccoli, MRP (myo-lite), etc....
I have increased my weights, increased my cardio, played with diet, taken therms, not taken therms...still getting fatter
I know this post sounds like a huge pity party for one and i HATE to sound like a whiner but i really am confused and frustrated.
any ideas on what i could be doing "wrong" because i really think i have done my research and implemented it.....and should have seen some sort of progress in fat loss and size in a year? would it take over a year to correct a f'd up metabolism???
could i be fooling myself into thinking that i am truly doing everything "right" and i am not???

physical stats:
5'2.25"
125 (was 120ish or less a year ago)
22-23% bf (afaik..most of it being from about bra-line to mid-thigh)

sorry to whine any insight, advice, or kicks in the teeth are definitely welcome!

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

i guess i am just whining
i just want to see a return on my investment

 

[melissa001]

I'm with you...

I totally know where you are coming from...Please...can someone help us?

Very frustrated....

 

[Temple]

Have you had your thyroid tested?
Do you measure your food?
Please post exactly what you eat and how much
Your training program
Your cardio schedule
The more info you give the better we can help you.

 

[Sassy69]

I hear ya sista!

A funny thing is that when you start paying attention to what you eat and your workout, etc., you REALLY become aware of how things are changing. For better or for worse. You have tried somethings that haven't worked. Time to evaluate these things and take a different approach. In the past I have been able to lose weight with formatted diet & workout regimens, though when I deviate from these once my short terms goals have been met, I start getting fat again.

Another funny thing is that your body is a dynamic thing and when you set up a particular way of eating or doing things, it will adapt and potentially stagnate. So you have to shock it - same concept as changing up your lifting routine every 6-8 weeks, else the improvements slow down and maybe stop.

Start by quantifying where you are now. Go to a doc and get a blood workup, and definitely include thyroid. You can check out some of the thyroid threads on this board because when your blood tests come back and it just says that your results "normal" relative to the specified reference range, this doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't an issue. (See the Sassy's Blood Panel (http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=16203&highlight=Sassys+Blood+Panel) thread for a sample of blood work results).

Then post your workout & diet as Temple said. I successfully competed in a novice bodybuilding competition last summer with fantastic results from diet & training, though I've since "blown up". I've been following a clean diet and training, trying different things w/ cycling carbs, etc., diff thermos, etc. and still stuck. I'm having a nutritionist review my diet right now. For the level of training & cardio I"m doing, I should be losing weight. Making good mass gains, but not fat loss. So its gotta be the diet. My blood work says I'm pretty healthy so that's been basically eliminated. So its gotta be the diet. I've been following a low carb, hi protein diet for more than a year. Its like my metabolism is stuck and I can't kick it back into gear.

Hopefully I can get it fixed and see some results!

Let us know what you are doing now and get the brilliant minds on this board to throw in their opinions!

Good luck!!!!

~ sassy

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

nope haven't had thyroid checked....
on to the gory details


typical days food intake:
meal 1 - myoplex lite mixed with water and/or nat PB & udos
meal 2 - 3oz chicken, 1/2C brown rice or 1/2C blackbeans
meal 3 - 3oz chicken, 1/2C brown rice or 1/2C blackbeans with asparagus or broccoli
meal 4 - protein only shake* and oatmeal
gym **see below
meal 5 - (within an hour of the gym) myoplex-lite, or chicken and rice OR beans, with asparagus/broccoli
meal 6 - protein only shake (not always consistent on this )

* about 110 calories and 26g of whey protein

these days i am more inclined to omit the blackbeans and rice and go for the veggies and chicken...

Gym shtuff:
lifting-
I eat within an hour and a half of GOING to the gym, and within an hour of returning.
i change my routine almost every workout...some days i will use mostly freeweights to work the same muscle groups and then the next time mostly machines...i get mentally bored real easy and have been told that i am overly "adaptive" (which would be fine if i was needing to survive in the wild )
some weeks i do fullbody workouts 3x a week, going heavier on alternating parts throughout the week...other weeks i split into "push/pulls" (back/bis, chest/tris/shoulders, legs) I do abs every other day no matter how i split it up...
i don't have my "log" here with me right now but i basically do a minimum of 2 exercises per muscle group, increasing weight per set...sometimes i do 3 sets with even reps and sometimes i do 5 sets with descending reps. I do my best to confuse myself LOL
I rest between 30-45 seconds... a bit longer on leg exercises.
Cardio -
i do it AFTER lifting, if it is a non-lifting day i make sure it has been at least 3 hours since last eating and i hit some abs first.
this also varies...bike, eliptical, recumbent bike, treadmill....usually 30 minutes either way...sweating like i am supposed to

Water-
enough to have my coworkers just assume that i am in the bathroom when i am not at my desk
1-1.5 gallons

Supps -
taking glutamine, therms (currently hydroxycut..that i cycle...go off of it on the weekend), multi-vitamin.

logically the above is all "sound" to me but i could be too close to the situation?
i mean i could see getting all frumpy and clothes not fitting if i was out boozing it up eating za everynight
like above...want a return on the investment that is about it.....anything else?

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

one more thing.....

i am really consistent and give it my all UNTIL i get all mental and frustrated but even then i am not HORRIBLE.....
just thought i would throw that in there for "accountability" and reality check....

 

[strongchick]

I'm NOT qualified to answer...but I thought I should post my thoughts...


My body is particularly sensitive to higher GI carbs...so much so that I know IMMEDIATELY when I've eaten a little to much because I start to swell up and feel bloated...in addition...my abs hang over my belt.

I know from reading this forum that I must continually fight against my body's ability to adapt...so while I've "eliminated" hi-GI carbs....meaning....

NO rice, potatoes, bread or beans for as many days in a row as possible...just a protein and lots of veggies...and if I feel headachey or low on energy...I eat oatmeal and ONE higher GI carb at one meal. I don't eat this carb at the same time of day, either. When I do add significant carbs (remember, you can't do the same thing week in week out) I eat these at different times and in different amounts...like carb cycling...but more instinctive...so for example...I eat higher GI carbs at one meal day one, two meals day two, and three meals day three, then only veggies for carbs day four, and start over again. Right now, since I've lost a lot of fat and I've been doing this for 8 months....I'm cycling carbs over a 6 day period, with a cheat day once a week, then back down to low glycemic carbs etc etc.

You might also want to try a different ECA type supplement...Thermicore I hear is good...but I use Adipokinetix from Syntrax because my body got real tired of ephedrine shakes...and I just found it more effective for me.

If this stops working for me, I'll probably give in and get more scientific...I'll start counting grams per pound and what not...but for now...the approximation and instinctive way is more interesting...Just seeing how many days you can go in a row without a starchy carb is interesting in and of itself...I'm amazed at just how bitchy I get when I'm "challenging" myself!!!


I try to think of this as a game where I get the best of my body. That's what keeps me from being depressed. Mind over matter.

Again...I'm in no way qualified to advise...I'm just posting my personal experience. People here have commented that I should eat more when I've posted my diet...I'm glad I did that because even though I was cycling carbs, my caloric intake was too low....what I've learned is that what you eat is extremely important.

...I'm sure one of those kind and well-versed women will give you good advice soon.

 

[Temple]

MS....Bikinimom...where are you????? This gal needs your help!!!

I would get rid of the full body workouts and go to a 4 day split, back/bi chest/tri/shoulder hams/glutes quad/calf
Cardio 4x per week 1 hour am empty stomach
Are you putting up enough weight that you need a spotter? The lean mass started coming when I went heavy enough that by the last rep of the last two sets I needed help to get it up.

 

[blondey]

It sounds like you are doing everything right so I can imagine how frustrated you must be!

Go to the doctor and get a hormone check! Just a simple blood test and speciffically ask them to check your LH/FISH levels.

I don't want to freak you out - but one thing that pops to mind is that you may have PCO or polycystic ovaries. There are a number of symptoms that point to it like:

Painful periods, missed periods, irregular periods, breakouts around the jawline, dark hair growth on your chest face etc. (even minor facial hair) and also weight gain that no matter what you can't shake.

You may have one of the symptoms above, all of them or none - but it's worth getting it checked out as there are drugs that you can take to help stop the LH levels that cause you to hold and put on weight. Same kind of things was happening to a friend of mine who was working out she has PCO - but keep in mind you may not have it - but it's worth finding out.

The other reason may be as another reply has said your body doesn't work well with certain food groups. If you have a nutrisionalist he should have been trying you on different kinds of diets - if he hasn't find another one! There are so many different combinations and what works for me - may not work for you etc.

Hope everything turns out well xx

 

[FitFossil]

Mikki,

Are you taking any medications? Any hormonal birth control such as the Pill, Depo-Provera? What you've described happened to me while I was on the birth control pill. I tried all the low-dose pills and they all did the same to me (as well as turn me into a highly emotional shrew)..

I agree with the others and say definitely go to the doctor and get your thyroid and hormone levels checked - and a complete physical while you're at it. Just because you've hit 30, doesn't mean it's all down hill - the best is yet to come!

If anything comes back on the low side of normal (like a lot of women's thyroids seem to), and your doc just poo poos it or tells you to eat less and exercise more, find a more sympathetic doctor. It sounds like you're working hard and doing everything right, not like a lot of women who just want a pill to fix it. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

you all rock!
I am going to make an appointment and have blood work and an overall physical...the polycystic ovaries is something i actually considered...not really sure why.
I don't seem to have any of the symptoms but better safe than sorry. I am not taking birth control or any other type of hormone therapy.
I am also going to resume documenting meal times and thorough evaluation of my meals and workouts. That way i can rule out any chance that what i *think* i am doing is not in line with reality

I can't wait to find the answers!!! with your help of course

thanks

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

on behalf of GettinThere

she is having problems posting and asked me to post this on her behalf
********************************************
Since mikki is a friend of mine and we are having the same sort of concerns, I wanted to post my “shtuff” too, so maybe we can help each other with all of the suggestions we’re going to get

Stats: 5’3”, 120#, approx 17-18% BF

Typical Menu:
Meal 1: Labrada Low Carb MRP w/Flax Oil
Meal 2: Human Dev. Tech. Protein shake (21g protein, 10 carb) and a piece of fruit
Meal 3: Tuna sandwich on whole wheat, small salad with veggies
Meal 4: same as #2
Meal 5: usually chicken breast with brown rice and broccoli or something similar
Meal 6: same as 2 & 4

After typing this out, I realize I probably need more real food...I have a small appetite, so it’s so much easier to slam a shake and not worry about actually eating.

Training:
Monday: shoulders (my weakest area, so I hit them as hard as I can) 20 min cardio—alternating running/walking on treadmill and abs, if I remember
Tuesday: Legs, cardio if I can even walk/ abs if I didn’t remember the day before
Wednesday: cardio or rest...depends on leg soreness
Thursday: chest/tris...cardio and abs
Friday: back/biceps..cardio if I haven’t done it consistently during the week
Saturday: Cardio/abs

I usually do about 3 exercises per body part-- 2 warm up sets and 3 work sets is about average and about 10-12 reps each set. On the last work set I go heavy enough that I can only get about 6 reps. On the last set I definitely go heavy enough to need a spot.

Water: about a gallon or so a day.

Supps: Creatine, protein, MRPs, vit. A, C, E. Adipopkinetix & Gugguls Mon-Fri. Protein shake immediately after the gym.

I’ve gained about 5# with the creatine, which is what I wanted. I’ve cut all my dairy except Cottage Cheese & have one free day a week. Although I have made some improvement and the cellulite is decreasing, I personally feel I am not where I want to be. I am still trying to gain more size, but also lose some fat. I am not fat, or overweight...I just have this ideal of how I want to look. I’m on my way, just not there yet and need to know how I can get there. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Side note: I have had blood work done recently and everything is a-ok...

 

[Sassy69]

I'm just going to toss in some comments as I'm potentially going through the same issues - I followed a high protein (e.g. protein at every meal) diet w/ low carbs for a competition last summer - lost 20 lbs and 8% body fat in 4 months. Got sloppy after the competition, gained the 20 lbs and 8% bf back in less than a month (ok, some of it was water weight). Then lost 15 lbs and 4% bf in 3 months for another competition, but with more protein, more carbs, heavier training and less cardio. After THAT competition, got sloppy again, gained 20 lbs, 7% bf within a month.

NOW... 6 months later, still the same (+/- 5 lbs). Training & cardio like a mofo, following a similar diet still.

I'm stuck. The high protein diet just isn't cutting it and my metabolism is stuck. Tried all sorts of thermos, etc, etc, etc. Changed up the diet a little, trained harder, higher reps, lower weights, longer cardio. No results. Actually got fatter. No sloppy fat - just thick.

So I went to a holistic nutritionist for a re-eval of my diet. She is having my cut way back on the protein, all natural food - no protein mix for a while. The whole idea is to let my body get back to "efficient metabolism" instead of trying to force it to do certain things (e.g. training & cardio) on this diet that I've been using for a year.

BTW, the approach the nutritionist is taking is based on the Blood Type diet. I'm an O blood type. According to her, O types are prone to hypothyroidism and hypoglycemia. Carbs are bad for us (i.e. lots of cardio is needed to lean out), wheat-based stuff is really bad, oatmeal is bad, pork is bad. Don't need piles of protein and eggs only 4-6 times per WEEK (I eat eggs at least 2x per day!)

My "old" diet is posted somewhere on the Women's board, like "Learning something new every day". My current dietary breakdown is now:

Protein: 25%
Carbs: 55%
Fats: 20%

I'll see how it works for the next few weeks....

 

[GettinThere]

There have been several times where my blood sugar is pretty low and I have often wondered about my thyroid. I asked my doctor about that a few years back and she said that I'd be fat if it was too slow. Hmmm, I'm sure there are more symptoms than that!
I have also been told that it's really hard to get that "dream bod" when you're not real far off. However, I would think that a consistently diet & intense workouts for the past year would produce more results than what I've seen. I guess like Mikki said, I'm looking for more of a return on my investment. I admit, my workouts pretty much sucked until last year when I made a decision to really get in shape. I would go 3-4 times a week, but never pushed myself more than 75%. I always looked decent and everyone thought I was on greta shape, btu you know what you look like when the clothes come off right girls? Not at all what I want to look like...So, here I am with Mikki busting my ass for a very small return on the investment. Just hoping someone out there can take a look at what I/we've been doing and help steer us in the right direction.

 

[chabbah]

Sassy - I was fascinated to read about the blood type diet you are following. I wonder if you have consulted the same nutritionist I saw about 8 years ago who helped me with my low blood sugar attacks. He based his advice around my blood type (I'm also an O) and gave identical advice to what you have heard. Anyway, I was able to get my blood sugar problems well under control by following this approach.

The funny thing was, I went to him because I had heard that he was a homeopathic doctor who could advise vegetarians (I was a vegetarian at the time). Instead, he told me that because I am an O, I need to eat some animal products on a daily basis. He also told me that I would show allergic reactions to wheat products and eggs. All on the money.

I too experienced similar problems after dieting down last summer for a fitness show. I did the high-protein, low-carb diet with success but had a very bad and rapid rebound. I recently went to an RD who is also a sports nutritionist, and she has helped me to get on track with my diet. I'm losing bf -- not as fast as I did last year -- but it's coming off just the same, and I feel great. I'm actually eating two fruits a day now, where I wasn't eating any before, and having more carbs than I thought I could have and still lose bf.

Good luck on your new approach, and let us know how you do!

 

[Sassy69]

Thx g/f! I had read about the Blood Type diet, but sort in the same context of ready about any of the "latest" diets. However the premise makes sense. And frankly I'm very good at the traditional bodybuilding diet - I think it actually works pretty good if you are coming from a "normal" metabolism (i.e. you haven't done any extreme dieting in a while). But after the shock of limited calories and cycling carbs, etc. its SOOOOOOO important to get back to that "normal" metabolism.

I've tried every other way of artificially "forcing" my body to lose body fat (ephedrine, etc. etc. etc) and it just isn't working. So the holistic approach with a complete chemical purge and back-to-basics eating will HOPEFULLY do the trick. And keep the cardio going with good lifting. One challenge is going to be doing my workouts w/o a thermo.... Just plain old feels weird.

If I get good results after a week, I'll let you know!

~ sassy

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

more questions....

i keep reading that you can't lose fat and build muscle at the same time unless you are a "beginner"
could this be my problem? that is what i have been trying to do for a year and i wasn't exactly a "beginner" to begin with.
I am not quite sure i understand exactly how to eat/train, etc for the different "goals" especially since i *thought* that more muscle meant more fat loss...
I understand bulking and cutting but apparently not how to implement it
any reading suggestions or "plans"?
do i focus on cardio and lower caloric intake for a period and then lifting and "normal" caloric intake ?

i think i think too much

thanks

 

[BigEasy]

I am studying the topic of fat reduction and anabolism right now. It is amazing how few studies (none) have been performed to try and quantify what it takes to accomplish these two goals concurrently. True to science, we try and obtain one goal at a time by manipulating as few variables to achieve the desired goal. It appears that no researcher has figured out that fat loss AND anabolism are almost always required to achieve LONG TERM overall fitness.

It is generally accepted as true that trying to diet AND gain lean body mass (LBM) is VERY difficult, and VERY slow for the average person. There are indications that it CAN be accomplished however, especially when using anabolic steroids. With AAS it is somewhat easier, but still requires that one know their bodies tolerance for carbs, AND it's minimum required carbs for gains. To undertake a calorie deficient CKD diet with steriods AND try and put on LBM, is tricky for most people. But, you may be the 1, out of who knows how many, that can eat garbage AND get ripped, cut, and loaded down with LBM! (Then again, you probably would NOT be reading this thread if that described you.)

Keep your diet and routine SIMPLE, but varied, for as long as it continues to give you the losses you want. Using CKD, ECA/ECY, and rapid fat loss plans at first when you have more than a few % BF to lose is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to the long term goal. And if you use all the big-gun weapons up front, you will find they become less effective and you have little in your arsenal when you get to those last few stubborn % of BF. Remember, your body IS a machine that is supposed to self-adapt to it's environment. That means it is constantly trying to figure out what is the BEST <most conservative> metabolism level based upon available fuel. Supposedly, after about five days of being in ketosis or on a low calorie diet, the body begins to adapt by slowing down and requiring LESS FUEL for a given activity. This means we have to work HARDER to burn the same amount of fat. Further, the greater the calorie deficit we create in our diet, the greater the body response will be to slow down the metabolism. To make things worse, the body resists attempts to lose fat using a calorie deficient diet and wants to burn stored sugars, muscle, etc BEFORE burning fat! It usually takes 5-14 days to see appreciable fat loss, and then some people will stair-step their loss instead of a smooth declining curve of loss. So there will be a big bump down, then steady for a week or so, then another bump, and so on.

Sorry for the loooong post, but I have even more "stuff" that I have dug up if anyone is interested. I don't want to bore everybody with things you probably already know or hog the thread either.

BE

 

[Temple]

BE - I love long informative posts so let's hear it!!!
Also could you copy and paste part of that to the beginners thread as well as any other appropriate info?

 

[blondey]

Hi Mikki
Just wondering how you got on - how did your blood tests go? Have you found any answers yet?

 

[Loretta]

Ok, I had this same problem and you are about the same hieght that i am......I started in the gym and cardio after 8 yrs of being out last august. I build muscle very easily and used to amateur bodybuild at 24 or so ....I am now 41 almost 42. i look 29....i am blessed that way....i guess....anyway i was doing cardio about 5 hours and lifting about 6to 8 hours a week. In dec i went on a cruise and when the pictures came back i looked huge....i thought....so I decided to make some changes....I cut fat down to 15 to 20 grams a day and cut sugar quite a bit....I dont eat much meat but do drink protein powders...low in fat and carbs....I watch carbs about 75 a day and eat healthy choice or lean cuisine once or twice per day. i also eat low carb protein bars.....I upped my cardio to 7 to 10 hours per week, and quit going to the gym. I started back in the gym last week. everyone is amazed at how i look. I also took the liquid clenbutrix twice a day made by vpx sports....that i believe was the kikker.... I still wieght around 135lbs but look much smaller and wear a 4 to 6 petite...although like i said i have the bigger muscle thing going on.....i am getting were i want to go with my body now but have fat on upper thight that is extremely stubborn and have started a steroid routine. I hope i have helped and if you need to know anything else feel free to write me. fitness is it......Loretta

 

[mikki(hbdywi)]

Blondey-
thanks for checking up on me
Still searching
Haven't gotten bloodwork done
Started working with a different trainer last week and spent most of yesterday getting really mental.
Looked at pictures from the past year side by side...SCARY LOL
I'll keep searching and posting

mikki

 

[super]

Hi Mikki,

do you keep a training and diet log? I keep mine on fitday.com, it's easier than the excel doc I used to use. You can add in the calories you use for exercise and obtain weekly reports on your goals. And it's free. Maybe you are not getting enough calories.

I will pm you my link so you can check mine out.