chest just wont grow

[six-one-nine]

ive lifted on and off through high school but nothing really serious, nothing to make me build and real good muscle. about 8 months ago ive been lifting pretty hard, and i just cant get my chest to grow. ive asked people befor and they always say the same thing " get your arms stronger' , but my arms are pretty good now and still no gain. about a month ago a realized that i had a arch in my back with i lifted so i stoped that, but still nothing.

are work out my chest about 2-3 times a week doing regular bench, the peck deck, and the machines. when i lift i dont really feel a burn in my chest at all. i got some muscle there but not much. any thoughts? if i got on deca would that help me out?

 

[chase152]

Cut it down for one thing. Unless you have good genes, which it doesn't sound like, cut it down to once a week. That way they have more time to relax and get big....

Also, try doing some dumbells. They will allow you to target a little more...

 

[shamrock11]

You need some incline bench and flat bench. Then some dumbbell work.

 

[gymratforlife]

Just kill it when you do it till its sore and then give it proper rest till it feels good again and see how you respond.Make sure you are putting in 100% intensity when your hitting the last rep on every set you should be dead and need the in between set rest.

 

[canadianhitman]

Only train your chest once per week.

 

[nutsnack]

squeeze your pecs when your doing it and ull get to feeling a burn real fast.. also chest 1x a week is enough.. ure muscles get bigger WHILE they rest not during a work out!! i believe you can actually deteriorate your muscle by over exerting it!

 

[six-one-nine]

i believe you can actually deteriorate your muscle by over exerting it!

yeah thats what i think i did, cuzz i got a lil muscle going on, and all of a sudden like 2 weeks later it kinda shrunk a lil bit, thanks for all the tips, so once a week huh? how long should i spend on my chest, i usally spend like 30-45 minutes on it, but im guessing that is to much

 

[Extra_Strong]

ive lifted on and off through high school but nothing really serious, nothing to make me build and real good muscle. about 8 months ago ive been lifting pretty hard, and i just cant get my chest to grow. ive asked people befor and they always say the same thing " get your arms stronger' , but my arms are pretty good now and still no gain. about a month ago a realized that i had a arch in my back with i lifted so i stoped that, but still nothing.

are work out my chest about 2-3 times a week doing regular bench, the peck deck, and the machines. when i lift i dont really feel a burn in my chest at all. i got some muscle there but not much. any thoughts? if i got on deca would that help me out?

ok 1st of all are your saying you do not arch your back when you do bench?
you need to arch this is important. with out the arch you are using mostly shoulders.. your but and traps should be the only thing touching the bench.
so yes arch .. you have too.. also.. try different exercises to see with one y ou feel mostly in your chest.
do you get a pump in your chest?
do you lift hard and only feel it in your shoulders??
pick the exersice that you can feel the most. probably decline.
and if so.. do flies and every there there for a while.. and flex flex flex the muscle as hard as you can. back arched.

 

[Madcow2]

1) The "burn" or pump or whatever has nothing to do with effectively stimulating growth or adaptation

2) Get off the machines

3) Volume, Intensity, and Frequency are all tied together in an effective training program. It's impossible to say that 1x per week is better than 3x per week without taking all of these factors as well as the conditioning level of the lifter into account. This is a good explanation on why I say this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4776914&postcount=386 BTW - intensity is an objective quantifiable measure as defined by the % of a given single rep maximum in an exercise. It is not a subjective qualitative preceived effort or some such no matter how much the HIT people would like to steal a word the commonly prevades all serious weightlifting literature.

4) Sure "deca" will work. It's the most common cop out in BBing. Take a shitty training stimulus that is insufficient and magnify it several times until you can get gains out of it. Then cycle on and off roids accruing gains from the shitty workout and hopping back on before they disappear because the stimulus is too shitty to hold the majority of them, covering up the fact that your program couldn't grow a pubescent teen on an eating binge. IMO, probably better to bite the bullet and spend a bit of time learning how to train first. That way, if you use drugs you can gain the maximum amount from a given dosage rather than inefficiently racheting the dosage to compensate.

So a few questions:
-Do you train the squat and deadlift as well as the bench?
-Have you consistently increased your capacities in all of these lifts over time?
-Do you eat enough to support new tissue growth?

My recommendation is to go to the powerlifting forum and read the sticky posts on benching, squatting and deadlifting. Learn how to do the exercises correctly. If you want to add some muscle to your chest, you will be better served by living in the power rack for a while learning to squat and pull than using the greatest bench program known to man. The body is best stimulated and trained as a system - this is why it is all the noodlearms doing tons of bicept work that have tiny arms, you never see them squatting or pulling and those guys who spend their time in the rack have large arms with very little direct training emphasis. And this does not mean isolating all the muscles, we are talking compound lifts that stress the entire system to force adaptation. Once you've trained up and learned how to do them correctly, instead of using all the bullshit machine and splits, use a program that has been putting muscle and strength on thousands of people for years and years. Go to this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 and scroll down to the Novice Lifter Version. Direct link is here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
This is also a worthwhile interview to read: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm
In there he mentions his friend Mark Ripptoe consistently adds 30-40lbs to new lifters in 6 months - this is a template of the squat program they run: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235

 

[TheOak84]

give it a few years, and lift hard

 

[Guinness5.0]

1) The "burn" or pump or whatever has nothing to do with effectively stimulating growth or adaptation

2) Get off the machines

3) Volume, Intensity, and Frequency are all tied together in an effective training program. It's impossible to say that 1x per week is better than 3x per week without taking all of these factors as well as the conditioning level of the lifter into account. This is a good explanation on why I say this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4776914&postcount=386 BTW - intensity is an objective quantifiable measure as defined by the % of a given single rep maximum in an exercise. It is not a subjective qualitative preceived effort or some such no matter how much the HIT people would like to steal a word the commonly prevades all serious weightlifting literature.

4) Sure "deca" will work. It's the most common cop out in BBing. Take a shitty training stimulus that is insufficient and magnify it several times until you can get gains out of it. Then cycle on and off roids accruing gains from the shitty workout and hopping back on before they disappear because the stimulus is too shitty to hold the majority of them, covering up the fact that your program couldn't grow a pubescent teen on an eating binge. IMO, probably better to bite the bullet and spend a bit of time learning how to train first. That way, if you use drugs you can gain the maximum amount from a given dosage rather than inefficiently racheting the dosage to compensate.

So a few questions:
-Do you train the squat and deadlift as well as the bench?
-Have you consistently increased your capacities in all of these lifts over time?
-Do you eat enough to support new tissue growth?

My recommendation is to go to the powerlifting forum and read the sticky posts on benching, squatting and deadlifting. Learn how to do the exercises correctly. If you want to add some muscle to your chest, you will be better served by living in the power rack for a while learning to squat and pull than using the greatest bench program known to man. The body is best stimulated and trained as a system - this is why it is all the noodlearms doing tons of bicept work that have tiny arms, you never see them squatting or pulling and those guys who spend their time in the rack have large arms with very little direct training emphasis. And this does not mean isolating all the muscles, we are talking compound lifts that stress the entire system to force adaptation. Once you've trained up and learned how to do them correctly, instead of using all the bullshit machine and splits, use a program that has been putting muscle and strength on thousands of people for years and years. Go to this thread: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 and scroll down to the Novice Lifter Version. Direct link is here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
This is also a worthwhile interview to read: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm
In there he mentions his friend Mark Ripptoe consistently adds 30-40lbs to new lifters in 6 months - this is a template of the squat program they run: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235

I was gonna say that but madcow beat me to it

 

[Tom Treutlein]

What is this shit? Pec Dec? NO. Flat and incline bench pressing. Dumbbells won't help you "target" anything. Lifting once per week is too little, so don't listen to that. Unless you're juicing or gifted with genetics, once a week training will be too infrequent for natural lifters.

The burning sensation signified NOTHING in terms of an exercise's efficacy. Ignore any person who tells you to "go for a burn".

Also, don't worry about soreness - that also is no way to gauge an effective workout.

Also, gymrat is wrong - don't fucking burn yourself out on every set. There's no need to go to failure at all. It's counterproductive, if anything.

God, I thought we were all done with this misinformation.

 

[TheOak84]

What is this shit? Pec Dec? NO. Flat and incline bench pressing. Dumbbells won't help you "target" anything. Lifting once per week is too little, so don't listen to that. Unless you're juicing or gifted with genetics, once a week training will be too infrequent for natural lifters.

The burning sensation signified NOTHING in terms of an exercise's efficacy. Ignore any person who tells you to "go for a burn".

Also, don't worry about soreness - that also is no way to gauge an effective workout.

Also, gymrat is wrong - don't fucking burn yourself out on every set. There's no need to go to failure at all. It's counterproductive, if anything.

God, I thought we were all done with this misinformation.

dude, hes new to the site, relax

where have u been anyway, not on AIM

all i have to say is, progressive resistance

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I didn't have anything against him, just the others here who are all passing around this 1x/week bullshit. Next they'll say that I'm wrong and that it works for them, though I never said it doesn't work, it just sucks.

I'm not around much anymore, and I have a new name on AIM.

 

[TheOak84]

I didn't have anything against him, just the others here who are all passing around this 1x/week bullshit. Next they'll say that I'm wrong and that it works for them, though I never said it doesn't work, it just sucks.

I'm not around much anymore, and I have a new name on AIM.

kool...

so, are you gonna PM it to me, or do I have to beat it out of u..

 

[nutsnack]

I didn't have anything against him, just the others here who are all passing around this 1x/week bullshit. Next they'll say that I'm wrong and that it works for them, though I never said it doesn't work, it just sucks.

I'm not around much anymore, and I have a new name on AIM.

exactly, everyones body is different and it takes time to figure out what your body can take and how it reacts to it, I train my chest once a week and usually am sore for 2 days after so i could do it 2x a week but i see good results w/ my routine and i'm sticking to it, but working out ure chest 3 times a week is excessive and not needed.. you can read all kinds of bodybuilding magazines and you will get a million different opinions on techniques and what to work out and how b/c everyone is different.. experiment. u will grow but not over night so patience is good

 

[Madcow2]

You can read all kinds of BBing magazines and get a million different opinions because categorically they don't know shit about training. They are the problem not the answer. Shit, when's the last time saw the words 'dual factor theory' in a BBing magazine? Never. Pretty sad because for the most part, that's the way the entire world trains and it's the misapplication of science and ignorance of the fatigue factor that lead BBers to the 1x per week protocol between 1990ish and now. When I say it's that bad - it is. It's pathetic to the point that it's not even funny because their shitty training information is so ineffective that people who have very attainable goals are driven to drug use.

In regards to soreness (DOMS), it is largely related to infrequent training and lack of conditioning i.e. what you wind up at when you use a 3 day split and hit each body part 1x per week. As one trains more frequently and conditions themselves properly, DOMS basically disappears except in the case where someone is making a radical change to their protocol in which case they might be sore for a bit until the acclimate (usually not lasting more than a few workouts). This makes DOMS a horrible indicator of anything and certainly not when someone is ready to train again. Think in the case of athletes squatting 3x per week (very common and easily tolerated providing intensity/volume are regulated properly - also produces a shitload of gains), they are not sore from their workouts once accustomed. Does that mean that they should be lifting 5-7 times per week just because they aren't sore? Of course not, unless the volume per session was drastically slashed, they'd be dead in short order.

So, to a degree everyone is different especially when you look at tolerances and conditioning levels - i.e. what might allow adequate recovery for an elite lifter would by intollerably stressful to most others. However, the human body is fairly homogenous and we are not all so unique that each of us is a paradigm shift in methodology from each other. It is a leap of baseless faith to rationalize why BBing magazines would have so many different opinions and credit them all as valid. There is basically one answer - those magazines are unfit to wipe one's ass with.

You should throw out those mags and read the links below. They are cut from this thread which is nothing more than basic training methodology: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Dual Factor Theory - Why this Works:
(The further one progresses the more critical it becomes to understand basic training concepts like this. If you aren't familiar with this, it is absolutely essential. This is how top athletes in sport are trained the world over and this includes adding LBM in addition to strength, speed, and power.)
JS182: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3
Matt Reynolds: http://www.readthecore.com/200501/reynolds-dual-factor-training.htm
Madcow (post #15 and on): http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372686

Why Haven’t Most BBers Heard of This Type of Training if It’s so Commonly Used Around the World for Athletics, Powerlifting, and Olympic Lifting?
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4627437&postcount=133
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658210&postcount=234

 

[rbtrout]

Holy smokes, this post started an arguement. Everyone's body's are different, so do what works for you. Obviously, 3x a week isn't, so try 2x a week. Find out what works for you and do it. Benching, flat and incline will build the most muscle. Mix it up. A couple of weeks, use dumbbells, the next, use barbells. Don't do the same exact routine for much longer than a few weeks, cause your body will get used to it and you need to shock the muscles to keep them growing. They grow at rest, so make sure you get plenty of that. I'd try switching things around before trying gear.

 

[Extra_Strong]

well i agree with mad cow. but i still think there is an advantage to being able to feel your muslce a little..
my rows were pussy fied. till i learnd how to use my lats an when i did Wowy ...

 

[Madcow2]

Holy smokes, this post started an arguement. Everyone's body's are different, so do what works for you. Obviously, 3x a week isn't, so try 2x a week.

Not an argument. This guy just posted and got pretty questionable information. Considering he's thinking drugs to compensate for his shitty program, it's worth the time to provide good information and hope he learns something.

Still though, frequency is not independent of volume and intensity. Frequency is the distribution of volume. It's not purely a matter of how many times per week you train a muscle it's a matter of what kind of volume will be applied and at what level of intenisty (i.e. % of 1RM).

To give you an idea, a group of OL lifters in deloading before nationals are doing heavy clean & jerks and snatches twice a day 3 times per week and doing light versions on 3 other days (that's 9 workouts right there). This is in addition to squatting 3x per week and front squatting 3x per week and some basic assistance work. Now, consider that this is deloading and allowing for recuperation close to a meet and that the loading phases previous to this were much higher. For kicks, consider that the Bulgarians and Greeks dwarf that volume by a magnitude or two. It's a matter of a given athlete, his level of conditioning, and properly applying load (i.e. volume, intensity, and then acceptable frequency).

 

[Yarg!]

i did alot of dips/pushups in my off days after my chest work out which helped, FYI.

 

[bicepts101]

good thread in wish i heard of this shit when i first started out

 

[musclemuscle]

Cut it down for one thing. Unless you have good genes, which it doesn't sound like, cut it down to once a week. That way they have more time to relax and get big....

Also, try doing some dumbells. They will allow you to target a little more...

test post...my threads aren't postin

 

[lonewolfshome]

ive lifted on and off through high school but nothing really serious, nothing to make me build and real good muscle. about 8 months ago ive been lifting pretty hard, and i just cant get my chest to grow. ive asked people befor and they always say the same thing " get your arms stronger' , but my arms are pretty good now and still no gain. about a month ago a realized that i had a arch in my back with i lifted so i stoped that, but still nothing.

are work out my chest about 2-3 times a week doing regular bench, the peck deck, and the machines. when i lift i dont really feel a burn in my chest at all. i got some muscle there but not much. any thoughts? if i got on deca would that help me out?

keep back on bench as much as you can. work your chest once a week. ( get all your body stronger ) flat bench works front shoulders - tris then chest ( info form other forums ) the best overall chest exercise is the weighted l f dips , then if you cant do those go for the db decline bench ( set at 10% decline only ) stimulates 95 % of chest , ( both for lower chest ) ( 4 sets ) then 3 sets of inclines ( between 10% - 30 % only incline )you should stick to compound exercises , they are the best......dont forget to try to eat 5-6 meals a day ( not big meals ). and heres one i found online - instead of flys........pec deck fly push-press
Learned this one from dante....and wow, i guess the pec deck actually has a good use afterall

-get pec deck w/ handles w/ pads on it (not those cylindrical ones, need to be pads)

-take a normal position (i.e., bring handles together, hands near top)

-now slide your hands down until they're practically at the bottom of the pad. rotate hands so fingers point forward (traditionally, if you did a pec deck, hands would be at top of pad and fingers pointing upwards, now they're at the bottom of the pad and fingers pointing forward, not upwards)

-arch back, push chest out

-go through the motion...turns the pec deck into a 'power' movement.

very good for a change of pace. to give you an idea, i started off using ~150pds on the movement to get familiar with it, now using 500*10

 

[InTraining]

^ That's a great exercise. To the original poster if you are having some problems feeling your chest working the above exercise is good to establish a mind-muscle connection, which you can transfer to the more popular pressing movements.

Some things that should help you develop the chest:

-Prioritize inclines: Use both the BB and DBs a well developed upper chest will give the illusion of an overall larger chest

-Use a limited ROM on your pressing movements: Try to find the perfect ROM where only your chest(and delts to some extent) will be doing the work. A lot of people tend to use the triceps to compensate for a weak chest in pressing movements.

-Stick to the big compound pressing exercises: Forget about flies for now and try to get your weights up in incline BB, DB, flat DB, and dips (you could use flat BB too, personally not a big fan and don't think it works the chest very well)

 

[JIMguy]

ok 1st of all are your saying you do not arch your back when you do bench?
you need to arch this is important. with out the arch you are using mostly shoulders.. your but and traps should be the only thing touching the bench.
so yes arch .. you have too.

By far one of the dumbest posts I have ever read.. I'm sure you have excellent form

 

[Guinness5.0]

By far one of the dumbest posts I have ever read.. I'm sure you have excellent form

You're clueless bro. What he said is dead on.

 

[lonewolfshome]

You're clueless bro. What he said is dead on.

bench press--Technique
1. Lie on a flat bench with eyes directly under the bar.
2. Keep feet flat on the floor with hands spaced evenly, slightly wider than shoulder width.
3. Lift bar off the rack and slowly lower the bar to the highest point on the chest.
4. Drive the bar upwards and back over the eyes to arms length while exhaling.


CAUTIONS!!
•During the motion, do not arch your neck or back because you could injure your spinal disks.
•Never bounce the weight of your chest because this could injure the ribs, sternum or internal organs.
•Never exercise without a competent spotter.
Barbell Bench Press
Not too much to say here, I'm sure most everyone has done them! Here's some common mistakes I still see in the gym (and can't believe I do see some of them), and some tips:
Don't bounce the weight off your chest! I can't fathom what people are thinking when they do this, it just blows my mind! You risk some major injury, and aren't even putting your muscles under continuous stress. Sure you could maybe 'lift' more, though I hardly call it lifting.
Your elbows should, at the bottom of the motion, be at a 45 degree angle to your body to take some stress off your shoulders.
Use a wider grip to avoid involving the triceps. At the bottom of the motion your elbows should be at a 90 degree angle.
Don't arch your back, or lift your ass off the bench.
Lower the bar to near the bottom of your chest. The easiest way to accomplish this is to concentrate on your forearms always pointing straight up.
Don't lockout your elbows at the top of the movement.
and this littlt bit from another source...............And, my last suggestion regarding technique concerns arching the back-don't do it. True, it will almost always improve your bench-press poundage, but the advantage is entirely artificial. When you arch your back, you reduce the distance between your chest and the bar. Doing it will not accelerate muscle growth or increase strength. .............i gathered all the info from internet- google search.....

 

[Wills]

...And, my last suggestion regarding technique concerns arching the back-don't do it. True, it will almost always improve your bench-press poundage, but the advantage is entirely artificial. When you arch your back, you reduce the distance between your chest and the bar. Doing it will not accelerate muscle growth or increase strength. .............i gathered all the info from internet- google search.....

I don't really want to wade into this, but I should point out that there are a lot of people on this board who will disagree with this statement, myself included. Since I started introducing a controlled arch into my bench press I have improved chest strength and size, and I feel MUCH more in control of the weight. This has been coupled with moving to a more PL style action where I bring the bar down to the bottom of the sternum and pull the elbows in more.

I thought initially that this would sacrifice chest development by putting less emphasis on the Pec major, but clearly I was wrong. Being able to push more weight (under control) is much better for my chest, even if it isn't doing the same relative amount of work.

Mark

 

[Guinness5.0]

I don't mean being able to drive a truck under the space between your back and the bench, I mean maintaining curvature of the spine througout the lift. If you truly maintain this curvature, the mid traps and hips will be just about the only areas touching the bench.

 

[Ish]

Madcow, Tom, good stuff. Original poster, do you eat anything? What is your diet like? If you aren't eating enough, you will not grow.

 

[rbtrout]

An addendum to my last post - read what Madcow says - it makes way too much sense, especially including dl's and squats. I've done squats all along, but recently added dl's into my routine (about 1 month now). I don't think that I'm very strong on them (max of 300#). BUT, I've currently been working with db's on bench and have gone up 20# just since doing dl's.

 

[cuthroat]

Seems like everyone has covered form, excercises and such in their posts. One thing that I didnt realize was really putting a damper on my pec growth was my grip on flat/decline bench. I dont know if this go's for decline but on flat bench the wider your grip the more you are going to work your chest, the narrower your grip the more you work your arms...

 

[calebdonnellyusmc]

I'd say give cables a shot.
You might not be able to build the same power with cables as on a bench, but I do believe you can hit the pecs better. Try something like

5x 10 incline cable fly(postition the handles high)
4x 10 cable press (slightly lower cable position than incline fly)
5x 10 decline cable fly(handles down low)

You need to watch your form on these, because it's very easy to slightly change your motion to hit shoulders or arms more than you'd want to if you're concentrating on chest(decline more than others from what I've seen people do).
Dips can also help build a fuller chest than people give them credit for. the trick is in how straight you keep your body when doing them.