Cancer Survival Rates -- US versus Europe

[mrplunkey]

Why are cancer survival rates higher in the US versus Europe almost across the board? Yes, the US survival rate is higher in most countries *and* in most cancers. And the differentials aren't subtle either -- strong double-digit differences in most categories.

Think about it:

1) US citizens are fatter
2) US citizens eat more processes food
3) A higher % of US citizens don't have access to primary care
4) I bet US citizens abuse drugs more, but I don't know for sure
5) The US isn't as environmentally "progressive" as Europe (presumably more exposure to toxins / oxidants).

So what gives? Why is the difference so pronounced?

 

[javaguru]

Rationed care?

 

[DJ_UFO]

Because our fuckin medical system is the best, or better said, WAS the best in the world. Did we have problems with health system? Yes, but "change" is not an option. Why change the best system. Just fix it. Hope and change baby.

 

[DJ_UFO]

Too late anyways. This country will be 100% FUBAR by the end of Mesiah's term.

 

[LoneTree]

Why are cancer survival rates higher in the US versus Europe almost across the board? Yes, the US survival rate is higher in most countries *and* in most cancers. And the differentials aren't subtle either -- strong double-digit differences in most categories.

Think about it:

1) US citizens are fatter
2) US citizens eat more processes food
3) A higher % of US citizens don't have access to primary care
4) I bet US citizens abuse drugs more, but I don't know for sure
5) The US isn't as environmentally "progressive" as Europe (presumably more exposure to toxins / oxidants).

So what gives? Why is the difference so pronounced?

That is called diagnostic lag.
If cancer is diagnosed early, the survival time will be longer, without any real change in death rate or real advantage from treatment.

To remove all the fluff and froth, we use a gold-standard: All cause mortality.

All cause mortality from cancers, heart disease and stroke are higher in US compared to most industrialized countries.

A good example of high US system works:

According to a large Harvard study, after mammograms, the recall rate (for further invasive tests) is double in US compared to Britain, while death rate from Breast cancer is exactly the same.

Those extra invasive tests are financial drain and cause potential risk risk to women's health.

Who benefits from extra tests: greedy doctors and hospitals.

In 2008, America spent US$7900 per person on healthcare.

2nd highest expenditure: Canada, US$4700 per person.

If Canada spent the same amount of money per person on healthcare, they would have no waits and no lines.

That shows how wasteful US healthcare system is.

Brand name prescription drug prices are 60% less in rest of the industrialized world.
In rest of the industrialized world, governments negotiate drug prices with manufacturers.

 

[mrplunkey]

That is called diagnostic lag.
If cancer is diagnosed early, the survival time will be longer, without any real change in death rate or real advantage from treatment.

To remove all the fluff and froth, we use a gold-standard: All cause mortality.

All cause mortality from cancers, heart disease and stroke are higher in US compared to most industrialized countries.

A good example of high US system works:

According to a large Harvard study, after mammograms, the recall rate (for further invasive tests) is double in US compared to Britain, while death rate from Breast cancer is exactly the same.

Those extra invasive tests are financial drain and cause potential risk risk to women's health.

Who benefits from extra tests: greedy doctors and hospitals.

In 2008, America spent US$7900 per person on healthcare.

2nd highest expenditure: Canada, US$4700 per person.

If Canada spent the same amount of money per person on healthcare, they would have no waits and no lines.

That shows how wasteful US healthcare system is.

Brand name prescription drug prices are 60% less in rest of the industrialized world.
In rest of the industrialized world, governments negotiate drug prices with manufacturers.

Completely and utterly wrong.

US Breast Cancer Survival Rate: 83.9%

UK Breast Cancer Survival Rate: 69.7%

 

[mrplunkey]

US Prostate Cancer Survival Rate: 91.9%

UK Prostate Cancer Survival Rate: 51.1%

Oh yeah, socialized healthcare with waitlists and less aggressive treatments is clearly the way to go.

 

[EnderJE]

US Prostate Cancer Survival Rate: 91.9%

UK Prostate Cancer Survival Rate: 51.1%

Oh yeah, socialized healthcare with waitlists and less aggressive treatments is clearly the way to go.

It depends on the statistics that you want to measure.

If you use the survival rate, then I would agree with your statements.

If you use the quality of life (yes, this is subjective), then I would somewhat disagree after I take a look at a more concrete sample.

If you use the bankrupcy rate and impact of the cancer medication to quality of life, then I would really disagree.

Don't be so black and white, maing. It doesn't suit you. Michael Jackson, yes; but I have faith in you.

 

[mrplunkey]

It depends on the statistics that you want to measure.

If you use the survival rate, then I would agree with your statements.

If you use the quality of life (yes, this is subjective), then I would somewhat disagree after I take a look at a more concrete sample.

If you use the bankrupcy rate and impact of the cancer medication to quality of life, then I would really disagree.

Don't be so black and white, maing. It doesn't suit you. Michael Jackson, yes; but I have faith in you.

But that's why quality of life is impossible to measure.

What impact would it have on your quality of life being diagnosed with prostate cancer and being told you could begin treatment in a mere four months?

What impact would it have on your quality of life blowing your ACL on the basketball court and being told you can have it repaired in only 18 months?

What impact would it have on you to have your wrist broken and get it pinned and casted instead of plated with two weeks of early motion? Imagine having pins and plaster on your arm for six full weeks knowing when it comes off you may lose motion in your wrist or even use of your hand,

I'm fine with other people having socialized health care where demand is controlled by wait lists and strict guidelines. But for me, I'm not going to go that route and oppose any system would would force caregivers here to adopt that approach.

 

[EnderJE]

But that's why quality of life is impossible to measure.

What impact would it have on your quality of life being diagnosed with prostate cancer and being told you could begin treatment in a mere four months?

What impact would it have on your quality of life blowing your ACL on the basketball court and being told you can have it repaired in only 18 months?

What impact would it have on you to have your wrist broken and get it pinned and casted instead of plated with two weeks of early motion? Imagine having pins and plaster on your arm for six full weeks knowing when it comes off you may lose motion in your wrist or even use of your hand,

I'm fine with other people having socialized health care where demand is controlled by wait lists and strict guidelines. But for me, I'm not going to go that route and oppose any system would would force caregivers here to adopt that approach.

I've always found it funny that people in your country seem to strive for it.

We had various forum messages on it. What works in one country, may not work in another because the culture / mentality is different.

I don't see the amount of abuse that you would expect with free healthcare.

If it went to the States, then I'm fearful that the system would collapse in a manner of months with the no-personal responsibility group.