Can you train for Size AND Strenth at the same time?

[SSAlexSS]

Hello all!

You know how doing low reps high weight will makew you gain strenth but little size, and training with high reps low weight will make you bigger but not stronger.

Well what if I do singles as well as 12, 16,20 s? Will it make me become bigger AND stronger or is it mutually exclusive?

Any ideas?

Thank you!

 

[Cackerot69]

You have this all wrong, Alex.

High weight low reps are great for size (5-7), and low weight high reps (10-15) "assist" in size gains but do not directly contribute as much as low reps.

Singles are 99% neural, so that low of reps will not promote size gains, but 5 rep sets and 10 rep sets are the ideal for size gains. Use both. Anything above 15 has such a small effect on muscle growth that it can be completely ignored.

 

[einstein1]

I know you didn't believe me in my last post about this subject but I promise you- gaining strength is the precoursor to size. You can not get bigger without first getting stronger. Let me give you a couple of examples
1. If doing a low weight high rep workout was effective for size, then why not do 5lb DB curls for 3-4 hours for your bi's. When you go into the gym do you see the biggest guys doing a BB benchpress with just the bar for hours off end? If this workout was the key to size, then everybody would be getting bigger with less effort. With this theory, the less weight you use, the bigger you get. Unfortunately, that isn't how the body works.
2. Why does the muscle grow after a workout? Because the body is repairing the microtears in the muscle caused from the workout. This is how the body adapts, so that when the body is put under the same stress, it will be able to meet that stress. There is only one thing that can cause those microtears, ITS HEAVY WEIGHT. The heavier the weight, the greater the amount of stress the body is under. The greater the amount of stress, the greater the tear will be in the muscle.

 

[wynnyelle]

i've found that my body puts on more size/strength with higher reps--10 to 20, or even 30 for the squat or calves. you have to find what works for you...but gains in muscle size and strength seem pretty closely correlated to me. 10 reps seems a good place to start, but make sure it's an all-out effort to failure.

 

[Valdez]

Drop sets and supersets have given me the most gains lately. I really like to use B.F.T. sets sometimes too (28 rep sets! but heavy too, look at www.nuclearnutrition.com)

going past failure is really IMHO the best way to gain size and strength. do a heavy set with a weight that you will fail at about 5-8 reps as cackerot pointed out and extend the set by IMMEDIATLEY picking up a lighter weight and do a drop set. or if you have big enough balls do a B.F.T. workout.

 

[endpoint]

6x6 probably the best combo of strength/size.

why?

6x6 is enough stress to cause hypertrophy(growth) in the muscle
The percentage of 1RM of six reps is adiquate to cause strength gains as well.

I have to disagree with einstein.

Hypertrophy and neuromuscular strength are two different things.

You can get awesome growth through lowering a really light weight over an 4-5 seconds.........it will burn and you will look like a baby. you may not even get any strength gains.

I have huge dudes at work who are week...........and strong string bean dudes at work.........who can lift 2 times the huge muscular dudes.

they are both diffrent mechanisms

 

[Cackerot69]

6x6 would not be *optimal* for both.

There are two ways a muscle can increase in size. The fluid outside of the muscle cell (the sarcoplasm) can grow, or the muscle can increase its contractile proteins (myofibrils).

Growth of the sarcoplasm will NOT cause and increase in strength, but will contribute to size gains - this is how you can gain size without strength.

More myofibrils means more contractile proteins, specifically actin and myosin filaments. More actin and myosin means more powerful contractions and more strength. This is why a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, as increased number of myofibrils accounts for approx 80% of total muscle mass.

You can gain strength without size through an increase in the efficiency of the nervous system. Such as when one first starts training, or when an individual switches exercises and notices rapid progress. This is all neurological and not muscular adaptation, which means strength without size.

There you have it, hopefully you understood it...

 

[absolute hardgainer]

I agree with Valdez, BFT is not for wusses (like me ) it's a very very good way to gain size, probably because it fatigues a the muscles so completely.

hardgainer (no wuss)

 

[buffal2001]

My gosh,no one is actually helping the man, he wants size and strentgh and u r all just givin him bullshit about what does what. He wants size and strength and the only way to increase both well is to include a mix of low rep training with high rep training. With a mixture of powerlifting movements for a couple of months (say 2-3) and then a normal mass routine of 8-10 reps thenyou should gain size and strength. Powerlifting complements bodybuilding and vice versa. For your strenth gain powerlifting is definately the best with movements that gain compound strength such as cleans, high pulls, low squats, snatches etc....... all on low reps of 4-5(singles sometimes have been advised by pros even though they stress the joints). I do 3 days training hitting all the body parts in all 3 sessions but you must do light-medium-heavy training to avoid over training. I do squats, high pulls bench etc.... all on low reps(4-5) for 5 sets then some high rep auxiliary exercises(preacher curls, pushdowns etc....) for high reps of about 15.
I would read up about this type of routine before launching into it because you can easily overtrain and decrease in strength. Once you have gained enough strength you can switch back to mass gaining higher rep exercises . A mixture of both body building and power lifting is brilliant for size and strength.
No cunt will mess with you if you are massive and strong as fuck.

 

[blood_drinker]

I think this question is originating from a post I saw a while ago, which explained

1-3 reps= strenght , but v/ little hypertrophy.
6-8 = hypertrophy, ok strength
10-20 reps= strength, no hypertrophy.

it was something like this. is this true alex?
if so i think i could find it....

 

[SSAlexSS]

I think this question is originating from a post I saw a while ago, which explained

1-3 reps= strenght , but v/ little hypertrophy.
6-8 = hypertrophy, ok strength
10-20 reps= strength, no hypertrophy.

it was something like this. is this true alex?
if so i think i could find it....

Yeh except 10-20 reps is hypertrophy/no strenth.

 

[Nathan]

What Valdez said was very true. However, if you haven't been lifting very long then those techniques are not such a good idea as they'll just lead to rapid overtraining.

 

[Valdez]

the point I guess I was incinuating is that high reps do not necessarily mean that you are using light weight. by extending a set you are putting the muscle under more stress and will produce more hypertrophy (in theory)

 

[WarriorPL]

what i use to do is 4 sets of 10 reps. on bench, incline, and decline.

That was when i first started the gym about 2 monthes ago, i thought i would get stronger doing this, WRONG

i was told by many big guys there that doing less reps of more weight will get you stronger, while more reps or less weight will do crap. being inexperienced, i listened to them. now i do 3 sets of 2-5 reps. at very high weights, of course i need a spotter, been doing this for 2 weeks now. i hope i get great results.

 

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Actually the ideal might be high with high weight. This is probably easier to achieve on leg exercises for most people. I've done 12 reps with 425 lbs on the squat, and 15 with 350 lbs on the leg extension- does this build size, but not strength? Of course not. I hhave found that this is harder to do on upper body movements where I fatigue faster- probably due to more white fast twicth fibers and less red slow twitch.
Here the conventional numbers given above seem to hold.

 

[endpoint]

WizKid25 If you your going to go that low on reps.......you better change the amount of sets.........to about 10.......yes TEN. im not shitting you.

The rep range always effects the sets you do.

the more reps you do the less set you do......and visa versa.

Remember if your gonna do low rep range sets.........you betta bring some magazines.

3-5 min rests between sets.


blood_drinker........that was a post from me ages ago.

the middle range is the best COMPROMISE...i think that is the best way to say it

ALSO

when you first starting out......you will gain strength and size from doing anything. helping load a bar will pack on mass.

So i believe when you start out stick with the 12 reps 3-4 sets.

so your stabalizers get a chance to build up.

you dont wanna be doint 1RM 2months in. whats the phone number for an ambulance?