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genezapharmateuticals
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Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsResearch Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic

Bromocriptina post ciclo___ si GH

dantitan

New member
No se porque decís que la bromocriptina reduce los niveles de GH???

Segun tenía entendido, los reduce en personas que tengan excesos de GH, gigantismo y esas cosas pero en personas con niveles bajo y moderados de GH, la bromocriptina parece incrementar sus niveles no reducirlos. A parte las dosis usadas para el tratamiento de gigantismo son mucho más elevadas.

Esto lo tenía entendido por como antes la gente hacía stacks con Bromocriptina y GHB para conseguir tener lo que llamaban "hormona de crecimiento de los pobres". Usaban la bromocriptina para evitar los efectos del exceso de prolactina en el sistema causado por el GHB. No creo que la combinacion fuera buena para nadie... a mi personalmente me vuelve loco poco a poco cuando la estoy tomando y tengo que tomarme días de pausa para normalizarme.

Lei el libro que publico lyle mcdonald entero sobre bromocriptina. Si lo leis os cagais. La describe como una droga de adelgazar para toda la familia!!! Y los estudios que lanza son buenos y esta siempre en foros para cualquiera que le quiera rebatir las ideas expuestas en su libro. Le mande un correo electronico una vez para preguntarle sobre la interactuacion de otros medicamentos con la bromocriptina y me dio un par de enlaces interesantes. Tuve la estupida idea de combinar bromocriptina con hydergina y priacetam... no más decir que la cabeza se estaba volviendo loco porque eran dos extractos de cornozuleo de centeno y piracetam que los potenciaba aun más a los dos.

De todas maneras para el uso postciclo para estos propositos praece la cabergolina. Se presenta mucho más potente y eficaz en la inhibicion de la prolactina y dura mucho más tiempo en el sitema.


Saludos
 
La bomocriptina previene la acromegalia en personas q tienen un exceso de GH en el cuerpo, no disminulle la GH endogena. Tb decir que la bromocriptina es un agonista adrenergico, por eso su posible uso para adelgazar, pero poco practico frente a la efectividad de otras sustancias tb agonista adrenergicos.

En cuanto al uso de la bromo o la cabergolina, hay 2 factores importantes:

1- la bromo es mucho mas barata.
2-la cabergolina es mucho mas adaptable al cuerpo, con lo que si eres propenso a sus efectos secundarios( que son bastante desagradables) puedes pasarlo mal con la bromocriptina.

De todas maneras las dodis que normalmente se usan ni se aproximan en lo mas minimo a la dosis en casos de gigantismo o parkinson.
 
Lyle tiene un argumento algo rebuscado sobre como la bromocriptina puede ayudar a la perdida de peso através de sus efectos en el cerebro con el sistema D2 que imitan a los de la leptina. Que es una hormona que le indica al cuerpo la cantidad de grasa corporal que se tiene (sobresimplificación). La gente ha notado que mientras hace dieta con bromocriptina la temperatura de su cuerpo no desciende debido a la dieta como en otros casos. Yo por lo menos me noto más caliente.

Pero una cosa muy importante que da a entender en el libro es que se tiene que consumir por las mañanas nada más levantarnos para imitar el ciclo del cuerpo (otras sobresimplificacion). Hay casos en que un culturista británico murio y se achaco la muerte al uso de bromocripitna. Parece ser que tambien estaba tomando mucho dianabol (que también provoca incremento de la dopamina, de ahi la sensación de bienestar que produce).

Yo personalmente voy a intentar usar la cabergolina para la recuperación que tengo por delante. Y confio en lo que dice deoman de que sea más adaptable al cuerpo. Mi problema ahora es que estoy consumiendo piracetam y DMAE por lo que si pongo bromocriptina o cabergolina lo tengo que hacer con mucho cuidado, procurando bajar las dosis de las dos, pues son sinérgicos en cierta manera.
 
Sabuncu T, Arikan E, Tasan E, Hatemi H.

Harran University, Medical Faculty, Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Sanliurfa, Turkey.

OBJECTIVE: It is well known that bromocriptine has a suppressive effect on the prolactin release in hyperprolactinemic patients. But it also has some adverse effects. The new, long-acting dopaminergic drug, cabergoline, has been reported to be an effective agent in these patients. However, there are relatively few reports comparing the beneficial and adverse effects of these drugs in the treatment of hyperprolactinemic patients. Therefore, here we studied and compared the efficacy and tolerability of cabergoline with bromocriptine in hyperprolactinemic patients. PATIENTS: Seventeen patients (7 with microprolactinoma, 4 with macroprolactinoma, 6 with idiopathic hyperprolactinemia) were given bromocriptine at a dose of 2.5 mg (or 5 mg for macroprolactinomas) twice daily, and 17 patients (8 with microprolactinoma, 4 with macroprolactinoma, 5 with idiopathic hyperprolactinemia) were given cabergoline at a dose of 0.5 mg twice weekly for 12 weeks. RESULTS: At the end of the study, the prolactin reduction was significantly greater in the cabergoline group than in the bromocriptine group (-93 vs. -87.5 %, respectively, p < 0.05). Normalization of prolactin levels was achieved in 10 of 17 patients (59%) in the bromocriptine group, and in 14 of 17 patients (82%) in the cabergoline group (p = 0.13). Two patients (50%) with macroprolactinoma in the bromocriptine group and three patients (75%) with macroprolactinoma in the cabergoline group demonstrated a normalization of their serum prolactin levels. Adverse events were noted in 53% of bromocriptine patients and in 12% of cabergoline patients (p < 0.01). CONCLUSION: These data indicate that cabergoline is a very effective agent for lowering the prolactin levels in hyperprolactinemic patients and that it appears to offer considerable advantage over bromocriptine in terms of efficacy and tolerability.

An article......from:

www.neurosurgery.mgh.harvard.edu/e-s-962.htm


by Beverly M. K. Biller M.D.
Stephen B. Tatter,M.D., Ph.D., HTML editor

The treatment of choice for prolactinomas is dopamine agonist administration, which results in tumor shrinkage, normalization of prolactin, and restoration of gonadal function in the majority of patients. However, the only dopamine agonist available for this disorder in the United States is bromocriptine. Its use is limited by a high incidence of side effects, a short duration of action, and a lack of effectiveness in some patients. Several other agents have been tested over the last decade in the United States with varying resuIts. However, cabergoline, a long-acting oral doparnine agonist specific for the D2 receptor, has received the most attention recently, and is currenily the only dopainine agonist being pursued for this indication in the U. S.

The most interesting feature of cabergoline in terms of patient comphance is its extremely long half-life. Most patientscan be treated with a single weekly dose, is in contrast to the 1-3 times daily administration required for brornocriptine. Particularly in the population most prone to microprolactinomas, healthy young women without other medical disorders, a once weekly therapy is extremely appealing. What information is available about cabergoline and what is its current status in the United States?

Webster, et al. conducted a European study comparing cabergoline to bromocriptine in the treatment ofhyperprolactinemic amenorrhea. A total of 459 women, the majority of whom had microprolactinomas or idiopathic hyperprolactinernia, were treated with either cabergoline or bromocriptine in a double blind study for 8 weeks, followed by an open label study for 16 weeks during which dose adjustments were made according to response Eighty-three percent of the women treated with cabergoline attained normal prolactin levels in comparison with 59% of women treated with bromocriptine. Seventy-two percent of cabergoline-treated women attained ovulatory cycles or became pregnant during therapy in contrast to only 52% of those treated with bromocriptine. Amenorrhea persisted in 7% of women treated with cabergoline versus 16% of women treated with bromocriptine. Cabergoline was better tolerated than bromocriptine with 3% of women discontinuing cabergoline versus 12% stopping bromocriptine due to intolerance. Gastrointestinal symptoms were significantly less frequent, less severe, and of shorter duration in cabergoline treated patients. The authors concluded that cabergoline is more effective and better tolerated than bromocriptine in women with hyperprolactinemic amenorrhea.

In a United States multicenter study of patients with macroprolactinomas, we have also found cabergoline to he effective and well tolerated. Fifteen patients (8 women, 7 men) ages 18-76 years were followed in an open label, 48-week dose escalation trial of cabergoline administered once weekly. Eleven patients had received prior therapy with other dopamine agonists. The prolactin levels decreased by 93.6% with normal levels obtained in 73% of patients at doses of 0.5-3.0 mg per week. Three of 5 patients who had failed to normalize prolactin on prior dopamine agonists achieved normal levels. Gonadal function was restored in all hypogonadal men and in 75% of premenopausal women with amenorrhea. Tumor size decreased in 11 of 15 patients, but tumor shrinkage may have been compromised by the fact that many patients had achieved substantial decreases in tumor mass on prior dopamine agonists. Side effects were minimal, with no patients discontinuing the medication due to intolerance.

Currently, cabergoline is available under a compassionate use protocol from Pharmacia/Upjohn in Kalamazoo, MI, based on individual requests by each patient's physician. In addition, a new multicenter, international trial is available for patients with macroprolactinonias and serum prolactin levels >200. This study is being conducted in a number of European centers and one United States site, the Neuroendocrine Clinical Center at Massachusetts General Hospital. This one year study is designed to confirm the effectiveness of this therapy in patients with macroprolactinomas. In particular, the focus of the study is to determine whether cabergoline is as effective at tumor shrinkage as bromocriptine. For this reason all patients enrolled are required to have had no prior therapy with any dopamine agonists, in order to avoid studying patients who have already experienced some tumor shrinkage with other agents.

In summary, cabergoline appears to be a more effective and better tolerated dopamine agonist in the therapy of prolactinomas. Patient compliance is high, related to the few mild side effects and once-weekly dosing. Further study is needed to confirm this, and to lead to its availability in the United States.

References
Webster J, et al. 1994. Comparison of cabergoline and bromocriptine in the treatment of hyperprolactinemic amenorrhea. N Engl J Med 31:904-909.

Biller BMK, et al. 1996. Treatment of prolactin secreting macroadenomas with once weekly agonist cabergoline. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 81:2338-43.
 
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