Body Opus vs The Anabolic Diet

[Gambler]

PWB

I sort of lost you.

Can you restate your ideas using a carb/protein/fat suggestion based on a 200 lb person?

Much of waht I am reading seems to agree that the higher fat intake won't hinder, and will actually help in overall fat loss as long as total calories ingested are in range.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Okay, my opinion on a high protein, lower fat version of a ckd is this: if you only eat 1g/lb. bodyweight and low fat, you'll hit starvation mode quick. You can do sprint diets (few weeks straight) in this fashion, but eating 600 - 800 cals will drop your metabolism supa quick. Plus, you'll be missing out on healthy fats which help burn up more fat. Another problem I'd see is the potential for an immediate rebound during the carb up, unless it's super short. If you're body's getting super low calories and no carbs or fat, it'll most likely store whatever it can get it's hands on. This is my opinion. Even if no fat is needed for a ckd, I think it is necessary to eat some. It will fill you up and stop carb cravings, at the very least.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Body Opus is very detailed and the anabolic diet is more general. BO lays out an exact training plan and carb meal timing on the weekends. On the anabolic diet you're just told to stop eating carbs when you feel water retention come on.
Of course, for the simplest CKD ever, just try this:

Oops. Never finished this thought. I was gonna say if all nothing makes sense just go 5 days no carbs and 2 days eat carbs.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

PwB-
Good post, and I agree the higher fat shows more ketones. I was wondering if you had any info on the citric acid topic. It seemingly kicks people out of ketosis, but the only indication is ketostix for most people. How can it kick people out if it doesn't cause the body to revert to running on glucose rather than ketones or refill liver glycogen? My theory is it just masks the ketones in the urine (kind of how you can take stuff to cover up drugs for a piss test) and seemingly affects this. Lemme know what you think.

 

[Devils*Angel]

How can you tell when your body has actually reached ketosis? Also, what foods do you recommend that are not too high in protein but have some fat (but not TOO much)?

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Ground Chuck has a 1 to 1 ratio of fat to protein, plus it's delicious. You can tell you're in ketosis w/keto sticks, but if you've run a KD before, you can usually tell by how you feel.

 

[Devils*Angel]

What happens if your consuming the 70% of fat but for some reason your body does not go into ketosis? Or takes a few days to go into ketosis? Under that circumstance would it all get stoerd and make you gain fat? Or if you screw up a bit and don't eat enough fat one day will it get stored?

 

[PwB]

Gambler, a certain level of fat is necessary for health reasons and beneficial to fat loss. What I was pointing out was that the ketogenic diet does not have to be a high fat diet, which is the common misinterpretation most people make. In most cases it is high fat, for several reasons, including better tasting food choices, higher calorie intake if needed, etc.

The maximum amount of fat intake which seems beneficial to meeting EFA's and maximum testosterone production is 30% fat, anything above that is fine but may not offer great benefit. Below that is ok as long as it doesnt get too low (15-20% should be bare minimum in most cases).

So yes, more fat is beneficial for some and some people report better fat loss w/ a higher fat intake. On the other hand me and many others i've spoken with do better on a lower fat intake, while still keeping carbs very low. I believe much has to do with ones ability as a fat oxidizer (as well as other possible metabolic abnormalties with fat metabolism, but they are fairly rare).

Devils*Angel, like kid dynamite said the ketostix but they aren't always reliable, but are a good starting indicator. Other indicators are "fruity" smelling breath in "some", or a blood test to measure the level of ketones.

If you eat 70% fat and aren't in ketosis, you should still technically be able to lose weight as long as calories are below maintenance, and carbs are kept low. The problem w/ high fat and carbs is the insulin spike from many carbs along w/ the fat which allows it to be easily stored in adipose tissue. For most people after a carb up it does take a few days to get into ketosis, depending on several factors. The process can be sped up by different types of workouts which will deplete liver glycogen, which is the primary factor necessary to get into ketosis.
Not eating enough fat won't screw up a ketogenic diet as long as other rules are followed, mainly low carbs and moderate protein.

Understand that in ketosis the body is physiologically in the optimal state to burn fat for energy. This being so a calorie defecit is still necessary and the rate of fat loss is generally related to the calorie level of the diet and secondly to the level of carbohydrate in the diet. (assuming adaquete protein).

 

[duchaine]

I think u guys are saying the same thing:
too much prot will throw out keto
too much is something over 2.2 kg/bw
I get better resault adding little fat to this quantity,so the ratio is 50-50
but eating 50% of prot won't bring me out of keto because the absolute value is low(only the relative value is high).

I love duchaine(as u can image from my name) but he was too much fixed about losing muscles and did't consider the possibility to meke a faster diet losing some muscle and gainig it back with refeeds(ok,this is true for the moder and the isocaloric,not b.opus)
so,he said not to cut calories and esting 70% of fat-but tath ratio (70-30)was because u should't cut calories.
for my self,after trials and errors,I found tath 5 days on 50-50 ratio(eatin 2.2 kg/bw of prot) and the siggestion of dan for carb-up is the best solution.

PwB, bodyopus is the best and the most innovative-ckd is a f..ing copy,is not original and lyle is far awy from dan.
rest in peace dan.

 

[overhead]

When I was low carbing I consumed more fat for a different reason. No science behind it, just me thinking about what was a more efficent source of energy. Your body converting protein to energy is not a very clean process and *maybe* hard on the kidneys. Fat is much easier for your body to use. Plus, I figured I would like to have as much of the protein I was eating go to maintaining muscle mass instead of converting to energy. I still add olive oil to my protein shakes in the hope that my body will choose the fat over the protein for energy. May not do a darn thing, but it seems to make sense to me.