Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Just read in one of the post that you are an ortho. So glad to hear it - now I need some free medical advice. I posted this prob a long time ago and Lobo told me to see a specialist. Can't get into one here without first going thru your MD and the MD won't refer me. Here is the deal, I was obese 200+# for years. As long as I don't workout my knees are fine, two days of cardio and they are sore as hell - don't know how to describe it other than soreness. Lunges and squats make it unbearable. Running or two or three weeks of lunges and squats in the workout causes a searing burning pain when I try to sit down, kind of at the half way point of the sit if that makes any sense. My MD said it was just a little arthritis and to "take motrin, don't run, don't lunge, don't squat" That is not an acceptable solution for me. It is at a point where it is miserable but I can put up with it as long as long as the exercises aren't going to make it worse. If I need to see another MD I can - just invovles alot of driving (we live where there are far far more cows than people) and docs are scarce.
Big Easy
- Thread starter Temple
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Gladiola
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Maybe my experience with sore knees can help. I went to see an ortho with a great reputation in the city I live in, he worked in sports med too (including working with last year's super bowl champions!)
My problem was a general soreness throughout.. but it never got unbearable. I was mostly just paranoid that I was gonna end up with a cane before I was 40! I wanted to know if I was doing damage to myself!
They would ache if I taught step aerobics 5 or more X per week. Less than that & I would be OK. Yeah, that's too much cardio, & too much of the same thing anyway... He said it was simply overtraining. I got an X-ray to be sure everything was OK & he also told me running was NOT "HORRIBLE FOR YOUR BODY" as a physical therapist & aerobics instructor friend told me. He said up to 10 miles (I think) per week would be OK for most ppl my age (24) so long as it didn't make me sore. He also said to ice my knee some nights after working it (I THINK he said 15 min on, 45 off, etc.)
What form of cardio are you doing? Running definitely puts more stress on the knees than other things... how about biking, swimming (zero impact), elliptical or walking?
How many sets & how much weight do you do for squats & lunges? Can you do leg extensions & curls without pain? Maybe more strength around the knee for support could help.
I was TOTALLY afraid the doc was gonna say the same thing "just don't do step aerobics" - but he was really cool & said he felt that restricting my activity isn't a good thing - I want to be able to do things!
I was happy with his attitude! OH - he also said an anti-inflammatory might help - he gave me Vioxx. Didn't help me, but another thought.
My problem was a general soreness throughout.. but it never got unbearable. I was mostly just paranoid that I was gonna end up with a cane before I was 40! I wanted to know if I was doing damage to myself!
They would ache if I taught step aerobics 5 or more X per week. Less than that & I would be OK. Yeah, that's too much cardio, & too much of the same thing anyway... He said it was simply overtraining. I got an X-ray to be sure everything was OK & he also told me running was NOT "HORRIBLE FOR YOUR BODY" as a physical therapist & aerobics instructor friend told me. He said up to 10 miles (I think) per week would be OK for most ppl my age (24) so long as it didn't make me sore. He also said to ice my knee some nights after working it (I THINK he said 15 min on, 45 off, etc.)
What form of cardio are you doing? Running definitely puts more stress on the knees than other things... how about biking, swimming (zero impact), elliptical or walking?
How many sets & how much weight do you do for squats & lunges? Can you do leg extensions & curls without pain? Maybe more strength around the knee for support could help.
I was TOTALLY afraid the doc was gonna say the same thing "just don't do step aerobics" - but he was really cool & said he felt that restricting my activity isn't a good thing - I want to be able to do things!
I was happy with his attitude! OH - he also said an anti-inflammatory might help - he gave me Vioxx. Didn't help me, but another thought.I have given up the running a long time ago and now walk on an incline 3 times per week
I don't squat or lunge with heavy weight as it makes it almost unbearable. I do take glucosamine and that does help a bit - at least enough to notice when I stop. My main concern is that like you if I push it I will end up having surgery be not an option or walking with a cane. Extensions and curls cause soreness but not bad, leg presses = tolerable levels of pain. I haven't tried the ice but I will.
I don't squat or lunge with heavy weight as it makes it almost unbearable. I do take glucosamine and that does help a bit - at least enough to notice when I stop. My main concern is that like you if I push it I will end up having surgery be not an option or walking with a cane. Extensions and curls cause soreness but not bad, leg presses = tolerable levels of pain. I haven't tried the ice but I will.
Temple,
Sorry not to reply earlier, been away until recently and just saw the post when it got bumped.
I am not an Orthopaedic doc, but I also have bad knees from walking around with too much fat...
My osteo-arthritis usually doesn't feel like a burning. More like a dull ache, and when you use stairs or place weight on the joint it will feel/sound as if you are walking on gravel. Most people have swelling and limited range of motion/stiffness on the morning after exercise. Does that fit your symptoms?
Do you hear/feel crunching when walking down stairs or ever when moving the joint?
Do you have any pain or popping noises when moving the joint any particular direction?
Questions questions! LOL
By the way, where is the post mentioning my ortho background? I didn't realise that I told so much about myself LOL.
Sorry not to reply earlier, been away until recently and just saw the post when it got bumped.
I am not an Orthopaedic doc, but I also have bad knees from walking around with too much fat...
My osteo-arthritis usually doesn't feel like a burning. More like a dull ache, and when you use stairs or place weight on the joint it will feel/sound as if you are walking on gravel. Most people have swelling and limited range of motion/stiffness on the morning after exercise. Does that fit your symptoms?
Do you hear/feel crunching when walking down stairs or ever when moving the joint?
Do you have any pain or popping noises when moving the joint any particular direction?
Questions questions! LOL
By the way, where is the post mentioning my ortho background? I didn't realise that I told so much about myself LOL.
Your reply to Spats trip to the ER:
Oh yeah, let your doc/ortho know that a Ortho. MD internet aquaintance of yours from Brigham and Womens-Harvard Med. School, suggested you ask about something called 'annie-var' treatment to help with the healing. Bet s/he will do it too, LOL. AND it will be covered by your insurance for 6-12 weeks!!!
P.S. Ask for a bone density test, and MAKE SURE YOU GET PLENTY OF CALCIUM
hmmmm - just assumed, silly me.
No, there is no popping, grinding nothing like that ust gerealized soreness and aching, I feel it when I do the lunge or squat but the real pain comes later. It is when I go heavy that I sometimes get the searing burning pain under the knee cap and for a few days thereafter when I try to sit down, happens at the half way point, completely up or completely down is fine.
Oh yeah, let your doc/ortho know that a Ortho. MD internet aquaintance of yours from Brigham and Womens-Harvard Med. School, suggested you ask about something called 'annie-var' treatment to help with the healing. Bet s/he will do it too, LOL. AND it will be covered by your insurance for 6-12 weeks!!!
P.S. Ask for a bone density test, and MAKE SURE YOU GET PLENTY OF CALCIUM
hmmmm - just assumed, silly me.
No, there is no popping, grinding nothing like that ust gerealized soreness and aching, I feel it when I do the lunge or squat but the real pain comes later. It is when I go heavy that I sometimes get the searing burning pain under the knee cap and for a few days thereafter when I try to sit down, happens at the half way point, completely up or completely down is fine.
Okay...
Good guess on my earlier reply, and there actually was an MD present when I replied to that message and she DID actually make that comment. Of course she knows of my penchant for things heavy, and works out with us. But that day I had my research nerd hat on assisiting her in sorting some clinical data... She is the brains, I am just the poor excuse for brawn assigned to her team. LOL
Back to your problem. The Doc's assessment COULD be right, but without MRI, and perhaps arthroscopy, it will be difficult to tell. I am going to include a couple of links for you. Now, if it were me, I would be making whatever trip I had to make to get to a sports med orthopaedic Doc, post haste! The longer you ignore a patellae injury or problem, the more damage it does. Of course, I have ready access to the Docs and facilities and that makes a big difference.
LadyDoc says that if you DO decide to do a 2nd opinion, see if DOC will do prelim interview via phone and schedule X-ray and MRI pictures AND reading BEFORE you go for exam. That is somewhat backwards from normal proceedure, but will likely allow you to do everything in one visit. Plus, this is a second opinion and there is usually some flexability given in that circumstance. Also, if you have teaching medical university nearby, see if their sports med or orthopaedics program will use you for a gunea pig.
Here are the links I mentioned, warning....they get worse and may cause uncontrollable drowsyness as you progress....
http://www.bayviewortho.com/patients/education/Knee/chondrom.htm
http://www.aafp.org/afp/991101ap/2012.html
http://www.clinicalsportsmedicine.com/chapters/24.htm
http://www.curtin.edu.au/curtin/dept/physio/podiatry/encyclopedia/kneepain/
Good guess on my earlier reply, and there actually was an MD present when I replied to that message and she DID actually make that comment. Of course she knows of my penchant for things heavy, and works out with us. But that day I had my research nerd hat on assisiting her in sorting some clinical data... She is the brains, I am just the poor excuse for brawn assigned to her team. LOL
Back to your problem. The Doc's assessment COULD be right, but without MRI, and perhaps arthroscopy, it will be difficult to tell. I am going to include a couple of links for you. Now, if it were me, I would be making whatever trip I had to make to get to a sports med orthopaedic Doc, post haste! The longer you ignore a patellae injury or problem, the more damage it does. Of course, I have ready access to the Docs and facilities and that makes a big difference.
LadyDoc says that if you DO decide to do a 2nd opinion, see if DOC will do prelim interview via phone and schedule X-ray and MRI pictures AND reading BEFORE you go for exam. That is somewhat backwards from normal proceedure, but will likely allow you to do everything in one visit. Plus, this is a second opinion and there is usually some flexability given in that circumstance. Also, if you have teaching medical university nearby, see if their sports med or orthopaedics program will use you for a gunea pig.
Here are the links I mentioned, warning....they get worse and may cause uncontrollable drowsyness as you progress....
http://www.bayviewortho.com/patients/education/Knee/chondrom.htm
http://www.aafp.org/afp/991101ap/2012.html
http://www.clinicalsportsmedicine.com/chapters/24.htm
http://www.curtin.edu.au/curtin/dept/physio/podiatry/encyclopedia/kneepain/
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