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Best Body Fat % for LBM Gains
- Thread starter NegroPops
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northernknight
New member
Yea, same with me. In my experience when I'm at 12-13% BF it seems to be optimal for me to gain size. If my BF is in single digits I get lot more exhausted from my workouts, especially when lifting with high intensity.
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10% and under; I don't really recommend bulking when guys are 12% because most get their bodyfat measurements wrong by at least 1% (sometimes up to 3%).
I agree with this as well. My best gains are made in the single digits. Its much easier to see progress made when you are leaner
From my experience, yes. As a matter of fact, the biggest gains in the shortest amount of time I've ever made was immediately after doing a contest, at which I was 4.5% bodyfat. I was hitting PRs within 2-3 weeks after the show. Pretty good considering I was coming off of a defecit prep diet for 12 weeks and was in a weakened state.
gjohnson5
New member
IMHO no. At 10%,a person is much free-er on calories especially carbs. Several cheat meals will have less effect on the 10% person. Also most people can maintain 10% bodyfat without having to do loads of cardio. Maintaining 6-7% would be a chore for alot of people.
You are wrong about the 10% person having more diet leniency on cheat meals. It's a proven fact that you are allowed more cheats and even encouraged to have more Cheats the leaner you get. If you've ever been extremely lean you would understand the aspect, but most people haven't been in stage condition. Near the end of my prep I was up to 3 big Cheat meals per week and still losing at a fast pace. When you are that lean and your metabolism is ramped up that high, you have to have those big refeed high cal high carb days often to optimize leptin and grehlin levels to continue getting lean. It's very ironic, but if you don't do that fat loss can stall easily. At 10% bodyfat I would have gained fat on what I was doing on my Cheat days when I was sub 6%. I could probably only afford about one cheat per week at 10%, but I honestly don't know since the fattest I've been is about 8.5% over the last 2 years. You guys would shit if you seen what I ate on my cheat days, and I have veins spidering across my abs all year long
gjohnson5
New member
IMHO 10% person would be able to eat cheat meals and then would be able to be more intense in the gym because he has more calories stored. IMHO in order to maintain 6% one cannot have an big excess calories stored or they would not be able to maintain that low bodyfat. In order to maintain the 6% one would have to cardio the extra calories instead of using them as energy in the weight room. Building muscle and being in an anabolic state has alot to do with calories eaten. Dorian Yates said ALL his major injuries came from DIETING and trying to maintain intensy in the gym. If one relaxes the diet , they can be more intense and build more muscle.
Anyway, If you're saying that you would not maintain the 6% and allow yourself to increase fat , then I agree. I disagree if you're saying one is encouraged to eat extra calories and still be able to maintain 6% There isn't that much of a difference in metabolism from one being 6% and 10%
I was around 6% the first 30 years of my life year around. However I was not eating the calories that I am now. So maintaining 6% was easy because I wasn't really eating. It wasn't because my metabolism was somehow through the roof. It was faster then it is now. But that is really a red herring. Anyway after 30, my metabolism did drop, my strength and size shot through the roof. The calories I could eat increased significantly, but so did bodyfat. The increase (in calories eaten) allowed me to be more intense in the gym.
3 cheat meals a week is about what I do now
ghrelin has been shown to assist fat loss. Leptin however ,has shows lipolysis increases in RODENT studies. Human studies have been done in infusing leptin inside a person with no change in fat loss... Probably due to leptin resistance
The role of leptin in human lipid and glucose metabolism: the effects of acute recombinant human leptin infusion in young healthy males
My experience and your experience are exactly opposite. When I was low bodyfat I really wasn't eating the calories I thought, even with a cheat meal here and there. It's basically the same advise I give people when they are hard gainers and want to bulk. Most of them are't eating what they think they are and hence not putting on weight. I don't think it's a significant metabolism difference , but an energy balance difference.
We are probably more close on our ideas than you think, with some minor differences. Your assumption is that I'm in a regular caloric defecit to maintain my bodyfat, which is far from the truth. I eat in a very big surplus on workout days with my defecit being on off days. This method combined with doing intermittent fasting works rather well for me. I have been around 4000 cals on workout days (+/- 500) and between 1800-2300 on off days. Despite still coming out with a weekly average surplus, I still manage a slow recomp. I will adjust those numbers up or down a little to go more for one goal or the other, but I am within about 500 cals of those numbers year round. Even during my final weeks of prep, my workout day cals stayed around 3500-4k (3 times per week). I can guarantee that my numbers are exactly what I eat as well and right on the money, since I weigh, measure, and track everything.
My metabolism is not exactly the fastest either, at 39 years old.
Most of my diet principles are my own variation of Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains protocol of IF. Here is his article on Leptins role and IF, and he touches on how implementing proper refeeds keeps you lean and fat loss continuing.
Intermittent Fasting, Set-Point and Leptin | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
As for the original subject, I know personally my training has never suffered from being lean....and I train fasted as well. A lot of people think their training will suffer if they don't eat before training, which is also a myth. There are studies that show fasted and fed training have no difference whatsoever on performance, and fasted training can actually be more favorable for the post workout anabolic response
http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html
gjohnson5
New member
Ill try to reread Martin's leangains information. I remember when he had the blogspot site . He had pics of himself doing deadlifts and the weights couldnt possibly be what he was saying. Then He was talking about writing a book. He started an IF thread on bb.com The information he posted on his bb.com thread initially didnt make any sense. We had a few arguments a few years ago. He read enough Alan Argorn to start making sensible diet arguments. Well I guess I should say he regurgigated enough Alan Argorn to start making sense. Ill check it out
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As with anything, there are two sides to a coin. For me, IF has been great, but it may not be for everyone. I gave it a shot like anything else, and it has been the easiest and most effective way for me to cut. I've also never lost strength or mass on a cut with IF, unlike most other diets I've tried. Actually I usually make gains while cutting on IF. They are usually small, but consistent.
NegroPops
Banned
I am currently at 7% body fat. When I start bulking this fall.. I think I am going to try to get up to 10% body fat as soon as possible. And then maintain 10-12% the rest of the cycle.
I am going to go the route the Ledhead introduced.. with an 8 week cycle, 20 week cruise, and then another 16 week cycle. The first 8 weeks will be with a good amount of tren and eq, so I will be eating like a horse trying to put on as much mass as possible. Trying to get the most out of tren. Then I will switch from an all out bulk to more of a clean bulk when I transition into the cruise and 16 week blast.. where I hope to use a bit of EQ, NPP, and Primo. Sound like a plan?
I am going to go the route the Ledhead introduced.. with an 8 week cycle, 20 week cruise, and then another 16 week cycle. The first 8 weeks will be with a good amount of tren and eq, so I will be eating like a horse trying to put on as much mass as possible. Trying to get the most out of tren. Then I will switch from an all out bulk to more of a clean bulk when I transition into the cruise and 16 week blast.. where I hope to use a bit of EQ, NPP, and Primo. Sound like a plan?
Pretty I liar to what I'm doing this fall myself. I'm running Test/Tren/EQ and plan to blast for about 8-10 weeks, then cruise. But, according to what Led says, your 16 week cycle after your cruise will be a waste after about 8 weeks. So I would just do another 8 week cycle unless you plan to go over 20 weeks on full cycle since you will hit baseline again with myostatin
NegroPops
Banned
I said that wrong, not a 20 week cruise.. but a cruise until week 20. I believe myostatin is suppose to remain stable at the 20 week mark for a longer period. Funny how that thread has changed how a lot of people go about cycling. And that information is far from new.
Test, Tren, and EQ seems to be the real deal. I think I am going to be sticking with the low dose Test and using EQ as my base test derivatives for cycles for now on.
Test, Tren, and EQ seems to be the real deal. I think I am going to be sticking with the low dose Test and using EQ as my base test derivatives for cycles for now on.
NegroPops
Banned
alright.. I have been doing a bit of research on this.
So basically.. when you are in a state of extreme dieting, especially with low carbs.. it greatly decreases the leptin levels. Now when your body has a leptin deficiency.. it sends a signal to your brain to increase food intake and greatly increases your appetite. The signal is not like a.. "well I am kind of hungry feeling".. but more like a.. "I need food now or I am going to die feeling." Because of this it could lead to late night binge eating sessions.
This is correct? or at least along the lines of what happens.
So basically.. when you are in a state of extreme dieting, especially with low carbs.. it greatly decreases the leptin levels. Now when your body has a leptin deficiency.. it sends a signal to your brain to increase food intake and greatly increases your appetite. The signal is not like a.. "well I am kind of hungry feeling".. but more like a.. "I need food now or I am going to die feeling." Because of this it could lead to late night binge eating sessions.
This is correct? or at least along the lines of what happens.
This is true but can be controlled pretty easily with properly implemented refeeds. Those will bring leptin levels back where they should be while also taking care of the Grehlin (hunger hormone) problem. The leaner you are. The more frequent refeeds you will need. I'm so lean right now, (around 6%) that I need to refeed about 3 days per week. It's very nice to eat what a lot of peon call "cheat" meals or "bad" foods this often and maintain that level of leanness. I am taking in around 4k-4500 cals those days with carbs around 450-500g.
