Beginner Cycle. Need advice from the vetrans!!

[luckybastrd]

Ok. Me and my roomate got Anabolics 2006 and have read up on everything and finally planned out our first cycle.

Here it is:

Weeks 1-10 Sust-300 (300mg/week) - Generic Supplements
Weeks 1-10 Deca-Durabolin (200mg/week) - Generic Supplements
Weeks 7-10 Oral Anavar (20mg/day) - Generic Supplements

10 mg Novaldex through entire cycle and post cycle

(Post Cycle Only)
HGC 15 days (3 shots)(5000,3000,2000)
Clomid (30 days- 100mg/day)

Can anyone give me feedback on this cycle. We have been lifting for 2 years and this is our first. I know Anavar isn't a bulking like the other two but we wanted to supplement for muscle hardness and density.

Any good or bad feedback would be appreciated. Especially on the post cycle treatment.

Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[JohnRambo]

Good cycle.. Done the same one with great results several times. But, as I am a stingy bastard, I would allways skip that anavar..

 

[amstel100]

I would bump up the deca up to 400mgs and cut out the var.

 

[black sheep]

First cycle should be test alone. Double the Sust, add a little arimidex instead of nolva throughout. Save the Nolva for PCT.

Cycle should look like this

Sust 600mg ew 1-10
Arimidex .5mg EOD

Week 10,11,12 HCG 1000iu's MWF (9000 iu's total)
Week 12-16 Nolva 20mg ED

Eat, Sleep and Train - You will grow like a weed.

 

[camshaft]

im on my first cycle right now
test e 250mg E4D 1-12
adex .5m ED 1-12
nolva 30mg ED 14-16

 

[marvelous54]

First cycle should be test alone. Double the Sust, add a little arimidex instead of nolva throughout. Save the Nolva for PCT.

Cycle should look like this

Sust 600mg ew 1-10
Arimidex .5mg EOD

Week 10,11,12 HCG 1000iu's MWF (9000 iu's total)
Week 12-16 Nolva 20mg ED

Eat, Sleep and Train - You will grow like a weed.

I have to agree with Black Sheep bro. Go with test only for first cycle. Sust and a-dex just like he has it listed should be great. If you have any sides you'll know it's from the test, if not you can add something next cycle and if you have bad sides then you'll know, most likely, it's the new AAS causing it.

 

[luckybastrd]

I have to agree with Black Sheep bro. Go with test only for first cycle. Sust and a-dex just like he has it listed should be great. If you have any sides you'll know it's from the test, if not you can add something next cycle and if you have bad sides then you'll know, most likely, it's the new AAS causing it.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It all sounds good. I was also wondering if you all had a link to a good training schedule while on these steroids. We were thinking about training every part every other day, plenty of sleep and plenty of food. Sound good?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Yeah, I'd stick with test alone too. You don't need too many compounds on your first cycle, it just confuses things and adds injections.

No, don't train every body part every other day bro...even on juice you will overtrain, your muscles still need time to recover.

While on juice your recovery period DOES decrease, so if you've been hitting each body part once a week, you can try hitting them twice a week and see how it goes. Also, a big mistake people make when on cycle (especially first cycles) is trying to go too heavy. Don't be maxing out, you'll hurt yourself. Stick with 2-3 sets of 8-12 reps of the big exercises (deads, squats, bench, pull-ups, dips, rows, etc.). This is the volume load for hypertrophy.

I'd do a little more reading on diet and training before you start the cycle, brother. You can never know too much. You'll be glad you did because it'll allow you to get the most of this cycle, and your future training.

If you have any questions, feel free to post up or send me a pm/email.

 

[marvelous54]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It all sounds good. I was also wondering if you all had a link to a good training schedule while on these steroids. We were thinking about training every part every other day, plenty of sleep and plenty of food. Sound good?

Actually b4 I gave any advice on the AAS I should have asked for your stats. Age, height, weight, bf%? Also, what are your goals?

BTW read Mr. X's sticky file for newbies (about 6 threads or so from the top) it will answer a lot of questions for you.

 

[amstel100]

Yeah, I'd stick with test alone too. You don't need too many compounds on your first cycle, it just confuses things and adds injections.

No, don't train every body part every other day bro...even on juice you will overtrain, your muscles still need time to recover.

While on juice your recovery period DOES decrease, so if you've been hitting each body part once a week, you can try hitting them twice a week and see how it goes. Also, a big mistake people make when on cycle (especially first cycles) is trying to go too heavy. Don't be maxing out, you'll hurt yourself. Stick with 2-3 sets of 8-12 reps of the big exercises (deads, squats, bench, pull-ups, dips, rows, etc.). This is the volume load for hypertrophy.

I'd do a little more reading on diet and training before you start the cycle, brother. You can never know too much. You'll be glad you did because it'll allow you to get the most of this cycle, and your future training.

If you have any questions, feel free to post up or send me a pm/email.

Great post, K to you

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Finally some sane dosages! I would still get the Nolva and keep on hand, but use liquidex/armidex through out the cycle instead. Also drop the var. If you want a kick start to the cycle, just use 20mgs of d-bol instead weeks 1-4. But to be honest, 300mg of test and 200mg of deca is plenty for a first run. That right there is 500mg total a week. I would even suggest just using 500mg of test alone for 8-10 weeks just to see how you react to it.

Also what are your stats, goals, training, nutrition, etc? I would recommend a trip to the training board and read up on 5x5 and other routines.

Also no drug gives 'muscle hardness'. Some can make you appear harder if your bodyfat is lower (tren, masteron, winny, etc) but unless the bodyfat is low and your diet is spot on, you'll notice little, if any of the effects these drugs may cause when it comes to hardness.

I'd go with the deca/test at the 200/300 dosage or even better test alone at 400-500mgs a week for 8-10 weeks. Train heavy focusing on compound lifts, eat like a horse and grow.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Great post, K to you

Thanks bud...back at ya!

 

[luckybastrd]

Thanks bud...back at ya!

Sorry about that guys. I'm 21 years old, 6'2'', 180 pounds, 13% BF. My roomate who is doing the same cycle with me is 22 yrs old, 6'2'', 245 pounds, and 25% BF. He hurt his knee this summer and gained a bunch of weight and is looking to get back in shape. Still strong in the gym, just unable to run and keep BF % down.

 

[amstel100]

Sorry about that guys. I'm 21 years old, 6'2'', 180 pounds, 13% BF. My roomate who is doing the same cycle with me is 22 yrs old, 6'2'', 245 pounds, and 25% BF. He hurt his knee this summer and gained a bunch of weight and is looking to get back in shape. Still strong in the gym, just unable to run and keep BF % down.

He def wants to get that BF%down before using gear, DIET and CARDIO

 

[Bulldog_10]

Sorry about that guys. I'm 21 years old, 6'2'', 180 pounds, 13% BF. My roomate who is doing the same cycle with me is 22 yrs old, 6'2'', 245 pounds, and 25% BF. He hurt his knee this summer and gained a bunch of weight and is looking to get back in shape. Still strong in the gym, just unable to run and keep BF % down.

Sounds good bro. Keep in mind that, judging from your stats, you two have very different goals. Obviously, adjust your individual training, diet, and cycles to your seperate goals. Good luck.

 

[maddogpumped]

Yeah I am his roomate. Thanks for all the help guys. We have read about as much information on the subject we can find. We have found that one book contridicts another book and so on. Any advice is very welcome. Yeah I have gotten a gut on me now. Partially tore my ACL and MCL in a soccer game earlier this past summer. Finally got it good enough to workout hard again. Gotta get back to running b/c I never stopped eating what I was used to before I hurt my knee, which made my just gain a bunch of weight. I would say I have a good 225 pound frame though....with that extra 20 pounds gained now. Thanks again for the advice and I hope our age,weight,measurements help.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Yeah I am his roomate. Thanks for all the help guys. We have read about as much information on the subject we can find. We have found that one book contridicts another book and so on. Any advice is very welcome. Yeah I have gotten a gut on me now. Partially tore my ACL and MCL in a soccer game earlier this past summer. Finally got it good enough to workout hard again. Gotta get back to running b/c I never stopped eating what I was used to before I hurt my knee, which made my just gain a bunch of weight. I would say I have a good 225 pound frame though....with that extra 20 pounds gained now. Thanks again for the advice and I hope our age,weight,measurements help.

Shit bro...how's the knee holdin up? I'm assuming there was also meniscal damage, be careful with that, my advice about not going too heavy applies even moreso to you. You're gonna think you're superman when you start, don't let it blind you...lift smart, lift safe and grow!

 

[maddogpumped]

Shit bro...how's the knee holdin up? I'm assuming there was also meniscal damage, be careful with that, my advice about not going too heavy applies even moreso to you. You're gonna think you're superman when you start, don't let it blind you...lift smart, lift safe and grow!

Yeah I was in pretty bad shape at the time. I am pretty athletic though. I played highly competitive soccer growing up including international play so I have the athletic background to grow from. I stayed off of it long enough to let it get well which is where most people screw up. I am probably about 85-90% right now. I plan on getting back down to atleast 230 before I even think about starting the cycle. We plan on starting after the summer...probably in late august, which will give us plenty of time to get the gear and get in tip top shape to prepare for the cycle to get the best possible results.

If I get down to about 225-230 again, 6'2", 22 yrs old, 17-19% BF, ....
What kind of caloric intake would you recommend if I make sure and eat the proper high protein, lower fat diet?

 

[c3bodybuilding]

At 6'2 180, I wouldn't recommend a cycle. I would eat like a horse and train using compound movements. And your friend would be better off using a good diet along with cardio and proper training.

This not a flame at all, but from the stats and experience, it doesn't seem either of you is ready just yet. I'd recommend a trip to the training board. With a good program and nutrition plan you can hit 210-220 naturally and easily.

 

[letsrun4it]

Last thing your roommate needs is to pile on more weight. "getting back in shape" is not the time to use AAS anyway.

 

[mr. snakes]

luckybastrd:

I would do it like this:

Weeks 1-12 Sust-300 (600mg/week)
Weeks 1-10 Deca-Durabolin (400mg/week)

 

[luckybastrd]

At 6'2 180, I wouldn't recommend a cycle. I would eat like a horse and train using compound movements. And your friend would be better off using a good diet along with cardio and proper training.

This not a flame at all, but from the stats and experience, it doesn't seem either of you is ready just yet. I'd recommend a trip to the training board. With a good program and nutrition plan you can hit 210-220 naturally and easily.

To be honest with you. I'm built on a very small frame (about 150 pounds). I've been lifting for 2 years heavy and packed on about 30 pounds of muscle. I just feel like i'm kinda getting to a pleatau where I need a boost. Gains have halted quite a bit and i'm definately not where I want to be.

 

[Bulldog_10]

To be honest with you. I'm built on a very small frame (about 150 pounds). I've been lifting for 2 years heavy and packed on about 30 pounds of muscle. I just feel like i'm kinda getting to a pleatau where I need a boost. Gains have halted quite a bit and i'm definately not where I want to be.

Try changing up your routine...that's probably the culprit. Look into periodization. May also want to mix up the diet.

 

[Bruce]

sorry bro but 6 2 180 at 13% just doesnt sound like you have a base to do aas. I mean if you were 7% bf then i would say fine but that is not the case. You need to eat clean 5000 calories a day and you can put on weight very fast. If you were lower bf i would say eat whatever you want but you say your are 13%. Are you sure that is correct can you see abs easily or do you have veins in your abs. I understand having a small frame I have a 28 inch waist and am 6 2 at 180 but I am 6-7%bf tops. I started lighter than you but should not have. I am all natural right now and packing on weight by counting every calorie i take in and making sure it adds up to 5000. it is really hard, even harder than the workouts imo. but it pays off you are amazed when you step on the scale. I can eat whatever I want to to get the calories but if you are that bf you need to take those in as clean calories.

 

[steelmass]

Don't run deca, do 10 weeks of test around 500mg. Throw in adex @ .5mg ED and then do PCT week 12.

 

[sweed]

i agree.. i started when i was 225 around 13-14% at 6'2'' , 22 yrs old.. so u can get some more weight on ya. however i was lifting for 9 years before my first cycle, so i had a lot of experience before I cycled even tho I was a little young. that was exactly a year ago.

sorry bro but 6 2 180 at 13% just doesnt sound like you have a base to do aas. I mean if you were 7% bf then i would say fine but that is not the case. You need to eat clean 5000 calories a day and you can put on weight very fast. If you were lower bf i would say eat whatever you want but you say your are 13%. Are you sure that is correct can you see abs easily or do you have veins in your abs. I understand having a small frame I have a 28 inch waist and am 6 2 at 180 but I am 6-7%bf tops. I started lighter than you but should not have. I am all natural right now and packing on weight by counting every calorie i take in and making sure it adds up to 5000. it is really hard, even harder than the workouts imo. but it pays off you are amazed when you step on the scale. I can eat whatever I want to to get the calories but if you are that bf you need to take those in as clean calories.

 

[ego boner]

i think you should only stick with test ONLY for your first cycle, but i think you should also have more meat on your bones before that. if you use more than one aas and react badly, then,, which is the bad one???? safety first, I would sugg. test E or cyp at 500mg wk with .5-1mg adex ed for 10 weeks, then run a proper pct.

$.02 <----mine

Ego Boner

 

[USHP]

Ok. Me and my roomate got Anabolics 2006 and have read up on everything and finally planned out our first cycle.

Here it is:

Weeks 1-10 Sust-300 (300mg/week) - Generic Supplements
Weeks 1-10 Deca-Durabolin (200mg/week) - Generic Supplements
Weeks 7-10 Oral Anavar (20mg/day) - Generic Supplements

10 mg Novaldex through entire cycle and post cycle

(Post Cycle Only)
HGC 15 days (3 shots)(5000,3000,2000)
Clomid (30 days- 100mg/day)

Can anyone give me feedback on this cycle. We have been lifting for 2 years and this is our first. I know Anavar isn't a bulking like the other two but we wanted to supplement for muscle hardness and density.

Any good or bad feedback would be appreciated. Especially on the post cycle treatment.

Thank you all for your help!!!

I'm not a 'vet' but, I'm jumping in anyway because I have nothing alse to do right now.

Good to see you guys did some research. But you might want to go back and check out how long to run the deca and the how long to run the test versus the deca. I'd leave the anavar for another day. Find an aromatase inhibitor. Keep some nolva around just in case. Rethink your pct a little.

With all that said if this is your first cycle put that one on the shelf and go test only as has been suggested here.

Try to remember to post your stats right away then guys responding will be able to give you better advice. Your buddy needs to drop some body fat before he starts. Maybe he could do some cardio on an elliptical machine they're low impact and diet hard. You could both do some training together (gearless) until his bf% is right and you could take some of the advice here and put on some size then start your cycle. Just my .02, good luck.

 

[luckybastrd]

sorry bro but 6 2 180 at 13% just doesnt sound like you have a base to do aas. I mean if you were 7% bf then i would say fine but that is not the case. You need to eat clean 5000 calories a day and you can put on weight very fast. If you were lower bf i would say eat whatever you want but you say your are 13%. Are you sure that is correct can you see abs easily or do you have veins in your abs. I understand having a small frame I have a 28 inch waist and am 6 2 at 180 but I am 6-7%bf tops. I started lighter than you but should not have. I am all natural right now and packing on weight by counting every calorie i take in and making sure it adds up to 5000. it is really hard, even harder than the workouts imo. but it pays off you are amazed when you step on the scale. I can eat whatever I want to to get the calories but if you are that bf you need to take those in as clean calories.

I'm a little bit confused. First off, i dont have abs (showing at least). I did at one point but cut out the cardio and increased calories for muscle growth and better overall health. Are you saying that I should get my bf% down to 6-7 just to take steroids? Why is that exactly? I mean I have some meat on my bones but I am in relatively good shape. I'm just confused.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

I understand the small joints. I was 144lbs at 6'4 when I started weight training. It's good because when you do get to a good size it looks so much better than if you had a wide waist and big joints. But you can add more size naturally. I know it may not seem that way, but it can be done. I got to 219 before I jumped on, and I wish I would have waited even longer. You only get one first cycle. That's the best one! You put on a ton of weight and strength. Why waste it? Do it when you have no other option.

Try this for just 8 weeks and I bet you'll add at least ten lbs easy.

Monday: Squat, Straight leg deadlift, calf raise 4-5 sets each 6-8 reps.

Wednesday: Chin, Bent over barbell row, curl 4 sets each 5-8 reps

Friday: Bench Press, Military Press, Dips 4 sets each 6-8 reps.

Focus on form and try to add weight to each exercise each week. The 2.5lb plates may not seem like much, but they do add up over time.

For nutrition, eat! Have about 5 whole eggs for breakfast, a cup of milk, fruit and a stack of pancakes. Replace the pancakes with oatmeal on workout days. Have a shake with 40-50 grams of whey mixed with milk a couple of hours later along with some fruit or nuts. Have some whole wheat pasta with meat sauce for lunch, then 2 hours later another shake. For dinner have something like a steak, some yams and veggies. Then have another shake before bed mixed in milk. A piece of fruit there wouldn't hurt either. I would eat even more than this. Drink some milk whenever you get a chance. Drink about 2 gallons of water daily. Also add in some flax oil or olive oil in one of the shakes for some good fats, and to help add some weight. Go easy with the olive oil the first couple of shakes or you'll be in the bathroom a lot. Start with one tablespoon in one of your shakes. Work your way up to 5 or 6 over time.

This is all very basic, simple stuff, but at this point it will do you a lot better than a cycle would. Give a simple basic routine a try. There's no need for endless curls, machines, etc at this point. Just add weight to the bar and eat. It's hard shoveling down all that food all the time. I am right now eating 7 times a day, 3 of those are shakes and fruit, but it's still tiring. But if you want to grow, it's something you need to do.

I would also do a small amount of cardio 2-3 times a week. 20-30minutes on a bike, low intensity. Just for health and so you don't get winded during exercises like squats, etc.

I was there. I was 190 and my friend scored some sauce. He wanted me to jump on. I waited. And to be honest, I'm glad I did. I knew I had it in me to do more naturally, and I have a feeling you do too.

 

[Bruce]

I'm a little bit confused. First off, i dont have abs (showing at least). I did at one point but cut out the cardio and increased calories for muscle growth and better overall health. Are you saying that I should get my bf% down to 6-7 just to take steroids? Why is that exactly? I mean I have some meat on my bones but I am in relatively good shape. I'm just confused.

what i am saying is that if your really 13% then you have more than twice as much fat than someone at 6-7%bf. despite being 180 at say 6% you are almost all muscle thus you have as much muscle as someone who is say 205 at 13%bf. so i am sayin you should weigh more at that bf otherwise you will not benefit from aas. look at the guy in my avi, he is 5 11 174 at 5% bf. he looks about 205 no? thats cause its all lean mass. thats why people don't get that 205 at 6% looks fuckin huge. you see if you had been training the right way and eating the right way you would be up in the 200's with that bf, or at your weight now with single digit bf. then i'd say you could benefit from aas as you would have your diet and training dialed in. i don't reccomend aas for anyone over 10% bf. i'm tellin you that at 180 and single digit bf you might love your physique because you a lot more lean muscle. go from there and the sky is the limit but you can't attain shit without knowing how to transform your body with food, it is more anabolic than any roid. not flaming you at all bro, we have similar builds almost the same. i made the mistake that you are about to in starting to soon. i thought i had hit a plateau but the truth was i was not getting in 5000 cals a day and just wasnt gonna grow. i used aas and gained easier but i'm natural now and still am gaining the mass by counting every calorie i take in and making sure to hit 5000 and 300g of protein. post a pic bro i want to see what your bf really is

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

I'm a little bit confused. First off, i dont have abs (showing at least). I did at one point but cut out the cardio and increased calories for muscle growth and better overall health. Are you saying that I should get my bf% down to 6-7 just to take steroids? Why is that exactly? I mean I have some meat on my bones but I am in relatively good shape. I'm just confused.

get up to 250 natty before you even think about juice, totally do-able

 

[luckybastrd]

what i am saying is that if your really 13% then you have more than twice as much fat than someone at 6-7%bf. despite being 180 at say 6% you are almost all muscle thus you have as much muscle as someone who is say 205 at 13%bf. so i am sayin you should weigh more at that bf otherwise you will not benefit from aas. look at the guy in my avi, he is 5 11 174 at 5% bf. he looks about 205 no? thats cause its all lean mass. thats why people don't get that 205 at 6% looks fuckin huge. you see if you had been training the right way and eating the right way you would be up in the 200's with that bf, or at your weight now with single digit bf. then i'd say you could benefit from aas as you would have your diet and training dialed in. i don't reccomend aas for anyone over 10% bf. i'm tellin you that at 180 and single digit bf you might love your physique because you a lot more lean muscle. go from there and the sky is the limit but you can't attain shit without knowing how to transform your body with food, it is more anabolic than any roid. not flaming you at all bro, we have similar builds almost the same. i made the mistake that you are about to in starting to soon. i thought i had hit a plateau but the truth was i was not getting in 5000 cals a day and just wasnt gonna grow. i used aas and gained easier but i'm natural now and still am gaining the mass by counting every calorie i take in and making sure to hit 5000 and 300g of protein. post a pic bro i want to see what your bf really is

Hey man i appreciate all of your advice. Here is a pic, sorry for the crappy quality.

I am still a bit concerned about the diet. I have a nutrition book and eat extremely healthy and very high in protein (200 per day). My calorie intake isnt much over 2000 per day. Everyone has always told me to eat more and more, but when I do, I always gain fat instead of building more muscle. So now everytime i hear to eat 5000 calories a day, i generally dismiss it.

I should also mention that I train about 4 days a week for about 1-1.5 hrs each day. Usually hitting about 2 parts, free weights of course. Exercises include: Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Dumbell Flys, French Press, Dips, Reverse Grip Bench, Military Press, Pull Ups, Rows, Squats, Barbell Curls, and Preacher Curls.

 

[luckybastrd]

Hey man i appreciate all of your advice. Here is a pic, sorry for the crappy quality.

I am still a bit concerned about the diet. I have a nutrition book and eat extremely healthy and very high in protein (200 per day). My calorie intake isnt much over 2000 per day. Everyone has always told me to eat more and more, but when I do, I always gain fat instead of building more muscle. So now everytime i hear to eat 5000 calories a day, i generally dismiss it.

I should also mention that I train about 4 days a week for about 1-1.5 hrs each day. Usually hitting about 2 parts, free weights of course. Exercises include: Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Dumbell Flys, French Press, Dips, Reverse Grip Bench, Military Press, Pull Ups, Rows, Squats, Barbell Curls, and Preacher Curls.

The pic is on my profile... I forgot to mention that.

 

[Bruce]

it is hard to say from that pic but 13 is a good estimate. you could really shred up and put on lean mass with a clean diet. 2000 calories is not enough to grow muscle. you need at least 4000-5000 cals a day. also what are your goals are you looking to put on a lot of mass or what youve never really said. cause if you are just looking to cut up and get more musclular i'd say do a light anavar cycle.