Bbf

[faller]

BBF

Hey BBF (or anyone else in the know), I want run a theory by you. Maybe this has been discussed before, but my classmates and I don't agree. Do you think that part of the weight loss from ketogenic diets is from the loss of energy-containing compounds (ketones) in the urine? Same idea as losing glucose from diabetes or renal failure?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Not exactally the same, but similar in a way. You lose ketones in your urine, fecies, sweet, breath etc when in ketosis. This accounds for some, but clearly not all, of the weight loss while on a ketogenic diet. There are other advantages, such as using fat as a fuel source and sparing muscle glycogen and protien for most of your energy needs while in this state. There are guys, such as quadsweap for example, who get into contest condition at 7000 calories on a keto diet. I've met guys who were losing body fat and maintaining their strength on as much as 9000 calories a day. So clearly many individuals are able to drop body fat on extremely high caloric intakes while using these type of diets. The theory of losing ketones is one, and yes I and several others have posted on it in the past.

 

[KWKSLVR]

Well, in my own observation of myself, I haven't seen any weight loss difference between a Keto diet and any other that I've tried. Keto diets seem so extreme because of the rapid water weight loss. Sure, ANY diet see's a initial drop in weight due to water but a Keto diet definately shows this much more rapidly. A buddy of mine's girlfriend started back on The Zone without working out and she is loosing about half a pound a week. I could choose to not work out at all and still lose about 1 lb. a week on a CKD.

I'm no expert, in fact, in the grand scheme of things I don't know jack so I'm definately interested in this thread. It just seems to me that if your body is using ketones for energy then eating obviously replenishes this supply so how can your weight loss be related to something that is constantly being replenished and released? Weight lose from losing glucose of definately true because, other than your carb up you don't have a glucose supply. I know that I use mine up in about a day and a half.

Sorry for the rambling...not sure where I'm trying to go with it.

 

[KWKSLVR]

Not exactally the same, but similar in a way. You lose ketones in your urine, fecies, sweet, breath etc when in ketosis. This accounds for some, but clearly not all, of the weight loss while on a ketogenic diet. There are other advantages, such as using fat as a fuel source and sparing muscle glycogen and protien for most of your energy needs while in this state. There are guys, such as quadsweap for example, who get into contest condition at 7000 calories on a keto diet. I've met guys who were losing body fat and maintaining their strength on as much as 9000 calories a day. So clearly many individuals are able to drop body fat on extremely high caloric intakes while using these type of diets. The theory of losing ketones is one, and yes I and several others have posted on it in the past.

My rambling caused me to miss your post . Awesome info. You guys don't have any links to old threads concerning this do you? (can't find anything on a search). I'd like to dig this out and get some good reading in.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

KWKSLV, once you have trained your body to burn fat and fat byproducts as a fuel source you'll find you do not lose glycogen as fast in ketosis. As far as eating replenishing the supply, it still won't do so if you eat less than you are burning and expelling. If you take in 500 fat calories during a given time period, but have burned for metabolic purposes and expelled as unburned waste products 800 such calories, you still have a net loss of 300 of those calories.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

No, I don't have any links onhand, it was long ago. You could ask Quadsweep about his diet also. He gets under 4% bf on a 7000 cal keto diet with no cardio.

 

[ohashi]

Most people seem to get caught up in the concept of ketones and seem to completely ignore the very low-insulin environment that you are putting yourself into. You take the fat-storing mechanism (insulin) out of the equasion, and what do you have? The ability to eat as much as Quadsweep while still leaning out (of course, there are other "elements" in his contest prep; I would not suggest any naturals to try to mimic what he does, but the concept is sound).

 

[faller]

I realize there are many factors involved. I'm looking at this from a clinical stand point (i.e. obese people w/o gear). Most of the stuff I've read has said that people (again, not athletes) usually drop enough calories for weight loss by eating less on low carb diets. You don't have any idea what the energy loss of expelled ketones are, do you? (If not, theres a Phd dissertation for ya!)

 

[overhead]

Here is an old article taht may help, explains the process pretty well

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156197&highlight=ketones+energy+urine