Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Barry Bonds Exposed!!!

slat1

New member
Saw this early this morning... word is out! Long but interesting!!

San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds, New York Yankees stars Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield and three other major league baseball players received steroids from a Burlingame nutritional supplement lab, federal investigators were told.

The baseball stars allegedly got the illegal performance-enhancing drugs from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative through Greg Anderson, Bonds' personal weight trainer and longtime friend, according to information furnished the government and shared with The Chronicle.

In addition to Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield, the other baseball players said to have received steroids from BALCO via Anderson were two former Giants, outfielder Marvin Benard and catcher Benito Santiago, and a former A's second baseman, Randy Velarde.

Oakland Raiders linebacker Bill Romanowski also was said to have received performance-enhancing drugs.

Anderson allegedly obtained a so-called designer steroid known as "the clear" and a testosterone-based steroid known as "the cream" from BALCO and supplied the substances to all six baseball players, the government was told. In addition, Bonds was said to have received human growth hormone, a powerful substance that legally cannot be distributed without a prescription, investigators were told.

Agents obtained the information about the baseball players and illegal drugs last September during a probe that resulted in the indictment of Anderson, BALCO owner Victor Conte and two other Bay Area men on steroid conspiracy charges.

The information shared with The Chronicle did not explicitly state that the athletes had used the drugs they were said to have obtained. Bonds, who is baseball's single-season home-run king, and Giambi, who won the American League Most Valuable Player award when he was with the Oakland Athletics, have publicly denied using steroids. So has Sheffield. All three declined to discuss the matter Monday.

Last week, attorneys for Anderson and Conte quoted their clients as saying Bonds had never used illegal drugs.

The information about Bonds provided to The Chronicle was corroborated by a source familiar with Anderson. The source told The Chronicle that the weight trainer had obtained steroids and human growth hormone for Bonds dating back to the 2001 season. That was the year the Giants outfielder broke baseball's storied single-season record for home runs -- hitting 73.

"We continue to adamantly deny that Barry was provided, furnished or supplied any of those substances at any time by Greg Anderson," Michael Rains, an attorney for Bonds, said Monday. He also questioned the credibility of the source familiar with the trainer.

Other attorneys interviewed Monday answered in the same vein.

Sheffield's attorney Paula Canny said, "Gary Sheffield has never knowingly ingested a steroid ... and Gary Sheffield has never knowingly applied an anabolic steroid cream to his body."

Santiago's attorney, David Cornwell, declined specific comment but said: "Based on my involvement in this matter, I know that many of the athletes involved did not know they were being given a banned substance."

Anna Ling, an attorney for Anderson, said the trainer had "never knowingly given any illegal substance to anybody."

Velarde did not respond to requests for comment. Benard could not be reached.

Investigators also were told that pro football player Romanowski had allegedly obtained both steroids and human growth hormone from BALCO. Romanowski was one of the early big-name boosters of Conte and his legal supplements, and the linebacker helped draw other elite athletes to BALCO. In 1999, Colorado court records show that Romanowski's wife, Julie, told investigators that the linebacker had obtained human growth hormone from BALCO. An attorney for Romanowski didn't return a reporter's phone call.

Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, Santiago and Romanowski were among more than 30 of the world's greatest athletes -- stars of baseball, football, boxing and track and field -- who testified last year before the San Francisco federal grand jury that investigated BALCO and handed up the steroid conspiracy indictments.

The names of Benard and Velarde have never before surfaced in connection with the steroid investigation, which has roiled the upcoming 2004 Olympic Games in Athens and, increasingly, the world of American professional sports as well.

The probe began making worldwide headlines last October, after the head of the agency that administers drug tests to U.S. Olympians alleged that Conte and BALCO were at the center of an international sports doping scandal.

The scandal attracted the attention of President Bush, a former owner of the Texas Rangers, who in his State of the Union address in January denounced steroid abuse in baseball and football. Then, on Feb. 12, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft convened a nationally televised press conference in Washington to announce the 42-count indictment against Anderson, Conte, famed track coach Remi Korchemny and BALCO Vice President James Valente.

The men are charged with conspiring to distribute performance-enhancing drugs, including human growth hormone and a newly created steroid called THG that allegedly had been designed to help elite athletes pass doping tests.

All four men have pleaded not guilty.

Ashcroft vowed to crack down on steroid abuse, saying it threatens the integrity of sports and "fosters a destructive culture contrary to the values that make sports such an important part of American life."

But even as it promised to get tough on steroids, the government took unusual steps to turn the focus away from the elite athletes suspected of using the illegal substances that BALCO allegedly supplied. Early on, the government said it was not interested in prosecuting athletes for using steroids, instead granting them immunity when they were called to testify before the grand jury.

The government also has deleted from public court files the names of every athlete who allegedly obtained illegal performance-enhancing drugs from BALCO.

Court records show that agents of the Internal Revenue Service and Food and Drug Administration had been investigating BALCO and Conte for 18 months when they served search warrants on the lab and on Anderson's Burlingame condominium Sept. 3. That was when agents were told the names of athletes said to have been provided the illegal drugs.

In affidavits that don't name the athletes, investigators allege that Anderson was the link between the baseball players and their source of illegal steroids at BALCO. The indictment alleges that on two occasions, once in November 2001 and another time in November 2002, Anderson distributed human growth hormone to a "professional baseball player."

Agents claim that Anderson, Conte and Valente admitted their roles in providing steroids to baseball players -- and in some cases named names.

Internal Revenue Service investigator Jeff Novitzky wrote that while agents were searching Anderson's home on Sept. 3, the trainer allegedly told them the names of the ballplayers to whom he had provided illegal performance-enhancing substances.

"Anderson admitted that he had given steroids to several professional baseball players whose names I was familiar with from my review of other documents in this case," Novitzky wrote. Another IRS investigator, Brian Watson, wrote that Conte, the BALCO president, had made a "confession" to illegal steroid dealing to elite athletes. That also came on Sept. 3, after agents had raided BALCO and Conte's San Mateo home.

Conte, the agent wrote, gave a "complete statement regarding his involvement in knowingly, illegally, distributing steroids to numerous professional athletes." Conte said he knew it was illegal and assumed Anderson knew that, too, when allegedly receiving the steroids for professional baseball players, the affidavit says.

Later, Conte is quoted as saying that in early 2003, he had given a "clear" steroid-like substance to Anderson to give to a professional baseball player. The agent acknowledges he was not sure whether the substance qualified as a banned substance under federal law.

J. Tony Serra, Anderson's attorney, said last week that the affidavit referred to a "100 percent legal" substance the weight trainer had offered to Bonds. Bonds declined it, Serra said. Conte's attorney, Robert Holley, couldn't be reached for comment. Last week, he told reporters that Conte knew of "no illegal activity that has ever been done by Barry Bonds."

Anderson, 37, is a beefy former collegiate second baseman who has been Bonds' friend since their boyhood days in the San Carlos Little League, according to people who know the men. In 1998, the Giants star hired Anderson as his weight trainer, and Anderson has been a presence in the Giants' clubhouse since the team moved to Pacific Bell Park in 2000.

Anderson often conducted workouts for Bonds and other training clients at the former World Gym near San Francisco International Airport, a few blocks from BALCO. Conte and Anderson met through the gym. Later, the trainer introduced Conte to Bonds.

Through Bonds, Anderson met several of the other baseball players said to have obtained illegal substances from the trainer, according to a source who knows the men.

Bonds befriended Giambi after the 2000 season, when Giambi, then the first baseman for the Athletics, had won the American League Most Valuable Player award, the source said.

After the 2002 season, Bonds and Giambi were part of a team of big leaguers who traveled to Japan on a baseball barnstorming tour. Bonds brought Anderson along on the trip, and the trainer got to know Giambi at that time.

Bonds also had been friendly with Sheffield since the outfielder's days with the Florida Marlins in the 1990s. After the 2001 season, Sheffield, then with the Atlanta Braves, moved to the Bay Area for several weeks so that he could work out with Bonds. A source said Anderson had supervised some of the workouts.

Anderson became acquainted with Benard and Santiago during the trainer's visits to the Giants clubhouse, the source said.

Benard left the Giants after the 2003 season and signed a minor league contract with the Chicago White Sox organization. Santiago also left the Giants after 2003, signing with the Kansas City Royals. Velarde retired from baseball in 2002.

During spring training on Monday, Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield declined to discuss BALCO and steroids.

"You're asking me about something we don't want to discuss," Bonds said at the Giants camp in Arizona. "... I'm tired of all these games."

At the Yankees camp in Florida, Giambi and Sheffield also declined comment.

Giambi referred to a conversation with reporters last week in which he denied using steroids. "I addressed it,'' he said. "I've got nothing more to say."

Sheffield also referred to his earlier statements in which he denied taking steroids.

"The issue is done with, as far as I'm concerned," he said.

The BALCO case and its connection to some of baseball's biggest stars have increased pressure on the sport to become more aggressive in the commissioner's stated goal of zero tolerance toward steroids. Last year, baseball implemented its first-ever plan to test for performance-enhancing drugs, but the policy has been widely criticized as too soft by officials from the Olympic movement as well as other sports governing bodies.

Contacted for comment Monday, Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig called steroids "sinister and seductive" and said he was distressed about the allegations about the players.

"We at Major League Baseball must strive for zero tolerance as it relates to the use of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs," Selig said in a statement. "We will do everything in our power to get to zero tolerance as soon as possible."
 
The general public is IGNORANT if they cant look at the guy and tell he was on gear!!!
H-E-L-L-O!!! Almost as bad as Clinton "I didn't inhale the smoke"
 
Everyone should have known Bonds was using gear. This is a guy who was a 30 homerun hitter his entire career, comming close to retirement age, and then all of a sudden he's slugging out 70-80+ homers a season. Common now :rolleyes:
 
slat1 said:
"We at Major League Baseball must strive for zero tolerance as it relates to the use of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs," Selig said in a statement. "We will do everything in our power to get to zero tolerance as soon as possible."

I find this funny comming from a league that had no drug testing until just recently when all this started.
 
Interesting read! I knew all this all along anyways. It is kinda funny the ignorance the general public has or does not want to believe.
 
Good read. I to new those damn baseball players were playing with help lol too obvious. Especially bonds and uping his home runs to 73
 
The increased offense in the last few years is what has gotten me to watch baseball again. MLB is killing the golden goose!
 
"Ok, so exactly WHY is it bad for athletes to use performance enhancing substances?"


Because it will make the game more interesting?????
 
strongsmartsexy said:
Ok, so exactly WHY is it bad for athletes to use performance enhancing substances?

Here is my understanding based on what I know.

The problem with using these substances in competitive sports is that it turns the sport into a game of chicken - how much damage are you willing to do to yourself and how many years are you willing to shave off your life expectancy in order to perform better for a few seasons.

The leagues do not want to put their athletes under that kind of pressure or to make them have to take that kind of choice.
 
Dirty V said:
The general public is IGNORANT if they cant look at the guy and tell he was on gear!!!
H-E-L-L-O!!! Almost as bad as Clinton "I didn't inhale the smoke"


Anybody who needs gear to look like Barry Bonds needs directions to the nearest gym...hitting 70 homers is a different story.
 
Synpax said:
Here is my understanding based on what I know.

The problem with using these substances in competitive sports is that it turns the sport into a game of chicken - how much damage are you willing to do to yourself and how many years are you willing to shave off your life expectancy in order to perform better for a few seasons.

The leagues do not want to put their athletes under that kind of pressure or to make them have to take that kind of choice.

The underlying assumption in that is that they aren't already? The leagues and teams already do put the athletes under that kind of pressure. It's a complete money game. If your income depends on your performance, you'll do whatever it takes to make a multi-million dollar salary versus a half million dollar salary.

The capabilities of the performance of athletes is what athletics is all about. And winning teams create more revenue than losing teams. And to have a winning team, you have to have athletes performing at whatever peak they're capable of.
 
Anyone see the article arguing in favor of just letting them juice? At least some writers are somewhat understanding about the "dangers" of all this.
 
Personally, I think every professional sport should have monthly tests during off season and ban all offenders from the sport forever. That would even the playing field back to where it was when professional sports started, all skill and ability. Or better yet, it would kill all sports which would be acceptable also. The money, the mentality of the players and what they get away with is getting way out of hand.
 
Baseball testing:
A first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment, a second in a 15-day suspension or a fine of up to $10,000.
The punishment would increase to a 25-day suspension or fine of up to $25,000 for a third positive test, a 50-day suspension or fine of up to $50,000 for a fourth, and a one-year suspension or fine of up to $100,000 for a fifth.

Olympic sport testing:
an athlete faces a minimum two-year ban for a first steroid positive and a lifetime ban for a second.
 
I almost wish we could have 2 leagues - one that was heavily tested for roids, and another that just turned a blind eye. Lets see which one John Q watches.... :D.
 
WolfPack Charlie said:
Personally, I think every professional sport should have monthly tests during off season and ban all offenders from the sport forever. That would even the playing field back to where it was when professional sports started, all skill and ability. Or better yet, it would kill all sports which would be acceptable also. The money, the mentality of the players and what they get away with is getting way out of hand.

Skill and ability is a learned thing. It's not like you're born with it. You may have some innate athletic abilities, but without training they don't come to much.

New training methods, diets, etc are developed all the time to maximize what an athlete is able to do. Not everyone is BORN with the same levels of testosterone in their system, or the same metabolism or ... so all things aren't equal to begin with. I'll ignore Jimmy the Greek's assertions...

If you want to "level" the playing field, handicap the guys who have MORE of these things. Kinda like they do with horses. :) :) :)
 
It was to long of a read for me. BB players use gear way to much, but come on, there is not that bad of punishment for it. I read, just recently, that a player had to be caught 5 times a year for a years suspension. What is THAT?
 
Dial_tone said:
Baseball testing:
A first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment, a second in a 15-day suspension or a fine of up to $10,000.
The punishment would increase to a 25-day suspension or fine of up to $25,000 for a third positive test, a 50-day suspension or fine of up to $50,000 for a fourth, and a one-year suspension or fine of up to $100,000 for a fifth.

Olympic sport testing:
an athlete faces a minimum two-year ban for a first steroid positive and a lifetime ban for a second.

Ok, so how would you address this? From what I read in Collins book, over 90% of the guys getting busted for steroids are not athletes or competitive body builders. They were guys in their mid 30s to late 40s just trying to look better etc. As men hit their 30s, the testosterone in their system is decreasing, whereas the young guys have an abundace. Where is the levelness in that?

These kinds of fines and such are just arbitrary fodder. What is it actually accomplishing?
 
So what if he used steroids. Let's just turn back the clock and make all MLB players compete without weight training, supplements, physical therapy, batting gloves, pine tar, and wrist wraps. Barry Bonds was/is one of the greastest hitters in the history of the game BEFORE steroids. So now he hits more HR's, well that's why I stop whatever I am doing when he's up and watch him. Like all it takes to be Barry Bonds is steriods. I want to see just one of these media jerks dig in on a full count against Randy Johnson, Josh Beckett or Kerry Wood.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
Ok, so how would you address this? From what I read in Collins book, over 90% of the guys getting busted for steroids are not athletes or competitive body builders. They were guys in their mid 30s to late 40s just trying to look better etc.

Well, of all the people taking steroids what % are pro athletes or competitive body builders? Probably few...look at EF.


As men hit their 30s, the testosterone in their system is decreasing, whereas the young guys have an abundace. Where is the levelness in that?


Unless you're suggesting we have an NFL for players over 35 I'm not sure where you're going with this one?

These kinds of fines and such are just arbitrary fodder. What is it actually accomplishing?


Not a damn thing. They amount to a day's pay at most for some of these guys.
 
Dial_tone said:
Well, of all the people taking steroids what % are pro athletes or competitive body builders? Probably few...look at EF.

:) Yet the steroid control act was directed at athletes if I am remembering correctly.
 
Dial_tone said:
Unless you're suggesting we have an NFL for players over 35 I'm not sure where you're going with this one?

That the drop in testosterone isn't a level playing field. Whether they're in baseball, football,socker, hockey...
 
Sports is not about being fair...never has been and never will be. Every weekend those who can't pay big bucks to sit in stadiums watching those who can. Why is it fair that Bo Jackson was born with his size & speed but I wasn't? How come Michael Jordan gets to be 6'9" with his vertical? That's not fair. I was Barry Sanders' size in college. Why didn't I get his quickness? Sure, all those guys worked hard for many years to wind up where they did. However I could have grown up right next door to any of them, done the exact same things those guys did every single day and still not have achieved a fraction of what they did. Maybe I'm justified in thinking that my taking steroids is really just my way of leveling the playing field?

For me it's more about health than fairness. I stopped competing not because I thought steroids were bad, but because I didn't want to kill myself for a hunk of tin and bragging rights.
 
I absolutely agree with you. Which is why I call bullshit on the level playing field argument. But it is an interesting perspective in any case.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
Ok, so exactly WHY is it bad for athletes to use performance enhancing substances?

i think it has to be along the lines of:

kids look up to these sports stars... if all of them are juicing or doing other unscrupulous activities, it makes breaking laws and doing these things look ok when in reality it is not... i know i dont want my kids growing up thinking they MUST shoot-up in order to have a chance at being a star someday... isnt hard work and dedication a more respectable thing to do while striving for success?
 
ProtienFiend said:
i think it has to be along the lines of:

kids look up to these sports stars... if all of them are juicing or doing other unscrupulous activities, it makes breaking laws and doing these things look ok when in reality it is not... i know i dont want my kids growing up thinking they MUST shoot-up in order to have a chance at being a star someday... isnt hard work and dedication a more respectable thing to do while striving for success?

I had 5 teenaged boys in the house at one time. Most of my concern came from the (c)Rap videos and music. Nasty lyrics those are. The three that were in sports never even thought of doing steroids.

I think that argument for a potential causal link is highly contrived.
 
I laugh when I hear people use the argument that performance enhancing drug use isn't safe. When an athlete decides to get into competitive sports(college and above) they are choosing to place their health second to performance. For example, Just the other day Jason Kidd injured his knee, had an MRI done that didn't reveal any structural damage, so he played the next night; or Saturday Antonio Burkes(University of Memphis) pulled an abdominal in the first half , and got it shot up during half-time. Sports in general are healthy activities , but competitive sports are not. This HAS to be taught to kids so they can draw a distinction between what they do and what Michael Jordan, or Barry Bonds does. This is where the government(if Bush wants to run all sports from the White House), the media, and parents have failed.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
The underlying assumption in that is that they aren't already? The leagues and teams already do put the athletes under that kind of pressure. It's a complete money game. If your income depends on your performance, you'll do whatever it takes to make a multi-million dollar salary versus a half million dollar salary.

The capabilities of the performance of athletes is what athletics is all about. And winning teams create more revenue than losing teams. And to have a winning team, you have to have athletes performing at whatever peak they're capable of.

Your argument isn't an argument against my argument - your argument is actually for stronger, more frequent testing.

There is a concious decision, and it is in the best interests of all the athletes, not to play Russian rulette.

Take steriod use to it's extreme - would you like to see runners have to decide between losing and having their arms amutated and a kidney removed to reduce their body weight so they can run faster?

The league - a private organization - has made the decision not to put players under that pressure.
 
that's what I have been screaming for years now....they tried saying that Mark McGwire was only taking androstien.....yeah right!
 
I'm sick of people playing the 'kid' angle. An athlete's job isn't to be a role model for your kid or anyone else's. I think Charles Barkley once said "I ain't no role-model...raise your own damn kids".
 
the all-american aspect is the elite mult-million dollar athletes, who drive demand for the non-detectable substances, will NOT BE CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. But what crime did they commit even if they used THG and GH? Neither were on the controlled substances list. The other ironic aspect is, it appears BALCO was at least doing things right (compared with black market) with close monitoring of athletes health parameters (we can't have that now can we?).

I have not read the charges but what exactly are they? THG is no more illegal than 1-Test, right? and GH was being distributed without an Rx, but it is not controlled, right? so how is this case so different than anything else going on
 
Triple J said:
the all-american aspect is the elite mult-million dollar athletes, who drive demand for the non-detectable substances, will NOT BE CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. But what crime did they commit even if they used THG and GH? Neither were on the controlled substances list. The other ironic aspect is, it appears BALCO was at least doing things right (compared with black market) with close monitoring of athletes health parameters (we can't have that now can we?).

I have not read the charges but what exactly are they? THG is no more illegal than 1-Test, right? and GH was being distributed without an Rx, but it is not controlled, right? so how is this case so different than anything else going on

Maybe the u.s. government is trying to make an example out of someone??
 
Synpax said:
Your argument isn't an argument against my argument - your argument is actually for stronger, more frequent testing.

It doesn't matter to me if they test or not. The economics of the game will come into play to mitigate this whole issue.

Synpax said:
There is a concious decision, and it is in the best interests of all the athletes, not to play Russian rulette.

Ah, but the argument has been made and will continue to be made that by "controlling", which is a nismoner, AAS, they're actually creating the problem. If AAS were allowed, then under a doctor's supervision there wouldn't be "Russian roulette"

Synpax said:
Take steriod use to it's extreme - would you like to see runners have to decide between losing and having their arms amutated and a kidney removed to reduce their body weight so they can run faster?

Um, are you actually raising this as a legitimate argument?

Synpax said:
The league - a private organization - has made the decision not to put players under that pressure.

The "league" is bending to the present pressure by congress, and the current showcasing and policitcal grandstanding. In the long run, the performace of their athelets will directly impact their pocket books. My belief, however valid, is that steroid use WILL continue.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
I had 5 teenaged boys in the house at one time. Most of my concern came from the (c)Rap videos and music. Nasty lyrics those are. The three that were in sports never even thought of doing steroids.


I totally agree that there are WORSE and more powerful influences out there.. but we were talking about sports and roids...

But since you brought up the media... Thats good that they havent thought of juicing for sports... but 14 years ago I never thought one would have to strip, in order to put out a single.

Times are constantly changing.
 
canadianhitman said:
I'm sick of people playing the 'kid' angle. An athlete's job isn't to be a role model for your kid or anyone else's. I think Charles Barkley once said "I ain't no role-model...raise your own damn kids".

kids are our future bro... they didnt respect the environment X years ago... and now look at it...
 
strongsmartsexy said:
It doesn't matter to me if they test or not. The economics of the game will come into play to mitigate this whole issue.

Ah, but the argument has been made and will continue to be made that by "controlling", which is a nismoner, AAS, they're actually creating the problem. If AAS were allowed, then under a doctor's supervision there wouldn't be "Russian roulette"

Um, are you actually raising this as a legitimate argument?

The "league" is bending to the present pressure by congress, and the current showcasing and policitcal grandstanding. In the long run, the performace of their athelets will directly impact their pocket books. My belief, however valid, is that steroid use WILL continue.

1) You are tone deaf. I already said that what was needed was more frequent and regular testing, and I explained why. You gave me no counter argument.
2) Yes, I raise the amutation as a legitemate point to more clearly illustrate the pressure that the current situation (and a situation where there was no testing at all) puts on athletes.
3) The league is not bending to pressure from anyone. I just explained to you why the league made the decision. What evidence do you have? None of congress' potential actions would have any impact on the league anyway. And if the congress decided to actually step in and set up an 'athlete monitoring agency' the league would be HAPPY to have the self-enforcement off of it's shoulders and the player's union would freak because they can no longer negotiate the penalties in advance because they have nothing on the agency whereas they have a lot of influence with the league.
4) You say steriod use will continue. SO what. That isn't an argument, that's speculation. What I presented was reasoning why the league tries - albiet failingly - to discourage steriod use, and why they should stop up their efforts.

Think about stuff before you throw out a comment like 'congress pressured them' or 'politicians are all the same' or 'money owns Washington' or other trite, unsupported dogmas.
 
Synpax said:
1) You are tone deaf. I already said that what was needed was more frequent and regular testing, and I explained why. You gave me no counter argument.

Ignoring the personal attack.

I am not offering a counter argument. I agree that frequent and regular testing is more likely to catch abuse. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that it wouldn't. In either case I don't care.

Synpax said:
2) Yes, I raise the amutation as a legitemate point to more clearly illustrate the pressure that the current situation (and a situation where there was no testing at all) puts on athletes.

A posulated extreme isn't a good way to prove a point. And although I believe you have valid points, that argument doesn't fly, independent of the validity of the point you're presenting. Unless you're going to bring into demonstration examples of where this has occured.

Synpax said:
3) The league is not bending to pressure from anyone. I just explained to you why the league made the decision. What evidence do you have? None of congress' potential actions would have any impact on the league anyway. And if the congress decided to actually step in and set up an 'athlete monitoring agency' the league would be HAPPY to have the self-enforcement off of it's shoulders and the player's union would freak because they can no longer negotiate the penalties in advance because they have nothing on the agency whereas they have a lot of influence with the league.

The Steroid Control Act was leveled at athletics in general. The sudden "uncovering" of Bonds et al isn't a random thing.

Synpax said:
4) You say steriod use will continue. SO what. That isn't an argument, that's speculation. What I presented was reasoning why the league tries - albiet failingly - to discourage steriod use, and why they should stop up their efforts.

Yes it is speculation and I presented it as such. I don't agree that the league should be be doing testing. I understand their need or desire to establish policy.

Synpax said:
Think about stuff before you throw out a comment like 'congress pressured them' or 'politicians are all the same' or 'money owns Washington' or other trite, unsupported dogmas.

Well, I did say the first phrase, the other two you pulled out of somewhere else. And as a matter of perspective I do believe that the current political climate and the stance taken by the president does indeed have and will continue to have an effect on the policies and demonstrations by the athletic groups to demonstrate that they are "doing something" about the "steroid problem"

See, and I managed to get through that whole thing without having to resort to name calling, personal attacks or false attribution of statements.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
See, and I managed to get through that whole thing without having to resort to name calling, personal attacks or false attribution of statements.


Oooo! Oooo! Do me next!! :)
 
Top Bottom