all you chemists out there

[justwannagetsum]

I notice that if dianabol was not 17A methylated, then you have EQ. Why are there actions so different?
JWGS

 

[Andy13]

That 17 methyl group changes the shape of the entire molecule. On paper it doesn't look like it's that big of an addition.. However, the 3-D structure get's changed into something completely different.

Andy

 

[serge]

Andy is right on

 

[Talon]

Agree with Andy

Solid answer Bro.

 

[nandi12]

No doubt the methyl group at the c 17 position induces a conformation change in the molecule, but I wonder if the different effects aren't due to the generally accepted idea that all 17 alpha alkylated steroids, including dbol, act on the liver to stimulate production of growth factors, rather than binding strongly to the androgen receptor. Boldenone, being injectable, should bypass the liver and bind directly to the androgen receptor and exert its effects there.

 

[Andy13]

No doubt the methyl group at the c 17 position induces a conformation change in the molecule, but I wonder if the different effects aren't due to the generally accepted idea that all 17 alpha alkylated steroids, including dbol, act on the liver to stimulate production of growth factors, rather than binding strongly to the androgen receptor.

Do you have any references that indicate this?

Andy

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

No doubt the methyl group at the c 17 position induces a conformation change in the molecule, but I wonder if the different effects aren't due to the generally accepted idea that all 17 alpha alkylated steroids, including dbol, act on the liver to stimulate production of growth factors, rather than binding strongly to the androgen receptor. Boldenone, being injectable, should bypass the liver and bind directly to the androgen receptor and exert its effects there.

I for one discount the idea that certain steroids act directly on the AR, while others indirectly. I think as a group these drugs have both direct and indirect actions.

Dbol is so different from EQ for a few reasons:

1) Methylation reduces the affinity for serum binding proteins (increased free %)

2) Methylation increases significantly the half-life of the steroid

3) Methylation reduces the affinity for aromatase

4) What estrgen that is produced in this case is in the form of 17A methylestradiol, an extremely bioactive estrogen for similar reasons (1&2).

5) Methylation reduces AR binding, however these steroids are typically more active than their unmethylated counterparts for the above reasons.

- Bill Llewellyn

 

[Andy13]

I for one discount the idea that certain steroids act directly on the AR, while others indirectly. I think as a group these drugs have both direct and indirect actions.

Dbol is so different from EQ for a few reasons:

1) Methylation reduces the affinity for serum binding proteins (increased free %)

2) Methylation increases significantly the half-life of the steroid

3) Methylation reduces the affinity for aromatase

4) What estrgen that is produced in this case is in the form of 17A methylestradiol, an extremely bioactive estrogen for similar reasons (1&2).

5) Methylation reduces AR binding, however these steroids are typically more active than their unmethylated counterparts for the above reasons.

- Bill Llewellyn

That's good shit.. You've done your homework.

Andy

 

[Squat]

Very nice explanation bill.. I'm impressed.

 

[justwannagetsum]

Damn Bill, you know your shit....
Maybe you can answer this..
Why does dbol produce such fast strength gains and size that dont seem to last as long as the more modest but seemingly longer lasting gains of EQ?