4-ad

[wyst]

If a woman wanted to try 4-ad (talking about the diols here) for general fitness/moderate muscle mass gain what would be a good dosage?

I'm pretty fit from cardio 4-5x/week and light lifting 3-4 times/week and would just like to try the precursors before I move on to real gear. I'm 5'6", 125 pounds. Don't know my bf, but it can't be very high. Clean diet.

I know, I know, the real deal is better, but I'm chicken.

Assuming that I -am- going to at least experiment with this stuff, my question is how much should I take and how often?

I was thinking either 100 mg or 250 mg of the 4adiol for 1-2 weeks, depending on results/sides. Not looking for a huge gain, just a moderate fitness model-level one, and a little bit of experimentation with testosterone. I hear so much about the guys and how great they feel with a little extra that I want to give it a try. I'm not afraid of moderate sides, but don't want to be singing baritone, lol. A little deeper wouldn't hurt, as my voice is kinda squeeky now.

I'd love some advice, especially from any women who've tried. What was your experience, when did you feel how in yoyur cycle, and when did you see what gains?

Wyst

 

[wyst]

I know....

But I'm chicken.

I want to try the 4adiol before I jump up to something meaner. I have spoken to a few people who used them to okay results, but I wanted the opinions of you guys.

Can anybody help me with more info? Even if it's negative (I tried and hated them, I tried and they worked, I tried and now have a goatee, whatever)?

My friend who has used anavar says the same thing you do, warlobo -- I'm not dissing your opinion. I just can't help being curious.

Wyst

 

[MS]

The only safe way for women to take prohormones is to divide them up into tiny doses and take them every 2 hours around the clock. This is a huge hassle, and is not necessarily effective, just safer than taking large doses once or twice a day. And as WarLobo said, they're very expensive.

Transdermal application will slow the absorption and therefore will reduce peak prohormone concentrations. This is a good thing for women, since it seems to be high peak levels of hormone that cause most of the masculinizing effects. But these are even more expensive! These supplements work well for some women, and merely cause virilization in others. Compare this to real AS that work well for all women (in terms of muscle gain/fatloss), and cause virilization in some. In other words, with the prohormones you risk virilization and possibly no muscle gains. With AS you risk virilization but virtually guaranteed muscle gains.

 

[Temple]

I have gone from "I will never ever ever use gear" to "well, maybe if it would help" to "YOU WILL PRY MY ANAVAR FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS!!!!!" I can totally understand being afraid of it but I think if you will take the time to really educate yourself on risks/benefits you will find that the risks at female doses are not that great. I am on my 22nd day of 10mg ed and have no negative sides other than my voice is a bit deeper and if it bothered me I would reduce my dose. Ultimately it is a decision that each person has to make for herself.

 

[wyst]

Another question

You guys rock, thanks for the words.

So here's a rumor-control question about prohormones vs real gear...

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to convince myself or anyone else that prohormones are better. I just want to understand something before I make the jump to real gear (which is the way I'm leaning at this point).

The way someone at my gym put it to me in real life (see, I _am_ doing research, honest!) because the conversion rate of 4-adiol (for example) is so crappy, you have to take vastly larger amounts of the prohormones to get any effect than you would with real gear, which means with all that extra junk (all the byproduct from the conversion to test and the stuff that doesn't get converted) you get more strain on the liver, the body etc.

And since the prohormones (mostly oral) only stay in the body for a short time, you have to take them every day to get any effect, as opposed to various shots that you might only give yourself every few days, or once a week, that kind of thing.

The sole good thing that she said about prohormones is that they don't have a long washout time. She said that the advantage of this is that if sides start to show up, you can stop taking the stuff right away and your test levels drop really quickly, and the sides don't get worse. According to her, the only scary thing about some of the shots and longer-lasting products is that if sides start to show up when you've just taken your latest shot, you're locked into several days of worsening sides until the level rises and subsides as the stuff is absorbed from the injection site.

Is this about right? Completely off base? Crazy?

Wyst

 

[MS]

Yeah, that about sums it up. The oral steroids such as Anavar, winny and primo also have a quick 'wash out' period, so if you notice sides with these, you can also get them outta your system quickly.

 

[FitFossil]

Hi Wyst,
You wrote "I'm pretty fit from cardio 4-5x/week and light lifting 3-4 times/week and would just like to try the precursors before I move on to real gear..." "Not looking for a huge gain, just a moderate fitness model-level one..."

I don't mean this is a bad way, but if you're just looking for "moderate fitness model" muscle, why not lift heavier? Gear or even prohormones is a big step. Side effects are possible with both, plus they're expensive.

I'm not saying I'll never cross that bridge someday myself, but I've had excellent results from training heavy and improving my diet. It doesn't cost anything, and the only side effects have been getting leaner and harder. I did gain size in my shoulders, chest, and lats and got tighter and more defined in my lower body.

I was already very lean from years of competitive riding, running, and lifting light weights, but never happy with how I looked. (My goal look was between a fitness model and fitness competitor - more muscle than a fitness model but less than a fitness competitor, with the leaness and definition of a fitness competitor.) My diet sucked because I barely ate anything (former anorexic), and when I did eat, it was mostly carbs and sugar.

I saw SOME improvement just from lifting heavy, but when I started improving my diet and lifting heavy, the changes seemed to come like magic. For the first time in 37 years, I am actually happy with how I look. Of course, I'll always be a work in progress. I'll never think my ass is TOO hard or my thighs TOO cut. The list goes on, but the thing is I never thought I'd get to the point where I actually LIKED that image staring back at me in the mirror with something as mundane as food.

I haven't ruled out some chemical assistance at some point down the road, but from what the veterans on this board say, all the gear in the world won't do much if diet and training aren't already at the highest level.

 

[wyst]

hey ff...

Yeah, I know.

But here's the thing. I have done heavier lifting, even with my own trainer, and I just don't seem to have the joints for it. I get a fair amount of pain pretty quick no matter what I do. My trainer put together a good program for me to stay in good shape, but I've pretty much plateau'd on it. I know, you need to be training hard to get the "real" steroid effects, but I'd be happy with even a little bit of an increase.

Plus I really like to experiment, lol.

Wyst

 

[cockdezl]

"The way someone at my gym put it to me in real life (see, I _am_ doing research, honest!) because the conversion rate of 4-adiol (for example) is so crappy, you have to take vastly larger amounts of the prohormones to get any effect than you would with real gear, which means with all that extra junk (all the byproduct from the conversion to test and the stuff that doesn't get converted) you get more strain on the liver, the body etc."

No, 4-androsteneDIOL is believed to have intrinsic androgenic activity. So, it may not require conversion to testosterone for effect. 4-ADIONE DOES require conversion for effectiveness.

Also, the metabolites of prohormones are similar to metabolites of endogenous steroids, so there is no extra burden placed on the liver (unless one is comparing 17-alpha alkylated steroids).

 

[patriarca]

Re: hey ff...

just put an order for AMS 1 andrsterone and 4AD for my next cycle just came off of P6 Black so I'm hoping it's not gonna br too risky as far as androgenous sides.... i'nm on DHEA 25mg cause haven't been able to get PCT due to bad weather. any comments?...